Alan Meinzer - The Spirit of God Will Not Let Me Go
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. This is the Cumberland Road. I am your host, TJ Malinoski. I had the privilege to be in conversation with Reverend Alan Meinzer. He's the minister at the Barren Fork Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Mount Pleasant, Arkansas. Alan has recently been nominated by Arkansas Presbytery for this year's election of moderator at general assembly in Louisville, Kentucky. In our conversation, Allen shares in his life where he has experienced nudges from the Holy Spirit or as Alan calls it, the Holy Spirit push that has helped guide him in his vocational path and in his relationships. Enjoy this conversation on Cumberland Road as I spend some time with Alan Meinzer.
T.J.:Alan, thank you for joining me on podcast. How is it going in Mount Pleasant, Arkansas? And where is Mount Pleasant, Arkansas?
Alan:Mount Pleasant, Arkansas is about fifteen minutes north of Batesville, Arkansas, and that's about an hour and a half north of Little Rock. Out here in the country, I've got cows in my backyard. Enjoy watching them just kind of out in the country, but a very good congregation. We're doing well, we've made it through COVID well, and just really enjoying the ministry and working with them. They love me and I love them.
T.J.:All right. Barron Fork, Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Alan:Yes, sir. Barron Fork.
T.J.:Alan, you've probably listened to other previous guests. I want to tinker with the opening question just a little bit Okay. That I've asked other guests in the past. I usually ask what their earliest experience, their earliest encounter with God. I'm gonna shake it up a little bit with you and just ask, Alan, will you share with me a meaningful experience with God?
Alan:I wasn't raised in the church. But I seem to be the one child out of three that always got dropped off at a church.
T.J.:Just you?
Alan:Just me. My mom took me to a Lutheran church and dropped me off, and she'd come back and get me when it was over. I remember saving these smiley face pins because I got one every time I went, and I was like,
T.J.:Was she getting rid of or it was a
Alan:No. I really can't put a finger on why it was me. But in Winn, Arkansas, I was the one that got put on the church bus to go to Forest City to a Baptist church, and they would drop me off, and she'd get me ready every Sunday and put me on that bus. But my family did not go to church, but somehow I was the one. And so looking back, was like, man, God's hand has been in my life in some amazing ways.
Alan:Now, I'm getting somewhere. I followed a girl to church when I was a junior in high school. And it was at that church that the pastor sat me down one day and said, Have you ever thought about accepting Christ as your Savior? Up until that point, I was there for the girl. I was there for the fellowship, went to Sunday school, all this, but nothing was leading me.
Alan:And it was at that moment that I discovered the Holy Spirit because God would just not let that go from my mind. It just kept turning over and turning over and turning over.
T.J.:So what did you say when he asked you pulled you aside and asked you that?
Alan:I said, I have it. I have it. He says, Well, you need to think about it. And I couldn't stop thinking about it. Now, here's the thing.
Alan:I went to all of the young people that were then I said, Tell me about salvation. And here's the sad thing. They said, I don't know what to tell you. I don't know what to tell you. And I was having this experience with the spirit of God moving and leading me, would not let let it go.
Alan:And so finally, we got to church and invitation was given, I went forward. Now this is not the most meaningful experience. It's important because I gave my life to Christ that day. But for one year, I didn't know what had happened. Nobody was able to help me figure out what happened.
Alan:I was a number on a book. People kept telling me, well, you're going to heaven now? And I'm like, well, okay. I'm still here, though. Now one year later, my mom and dad got invited to a Cumberland Presbyterian church out in the middle the country, Trimble Campground.
Alan:We'd never gone to church together, and I wanted to go with my family. First day I walked into that church, a bunch of little old ladies began hugging me. And it was at that moment that they started to teach me what my salvation meant. They started to teach me what it meant to be a Christian. And that's when it became alive because they let me become a part.
Alan:They hugged me and they loved me. They let me love them. They let me mow the grass. They let me teach in Sunday school. I worked with the youth, but I got involved.
Alan:My life as a Christian suddenly understood what it meant to be a child of God.
T.J.:They showed
Alan:That was the most meaningful experience is when I got from that church and they began to teach me what it meant to be a Christian.
T.J.:And they, yeah, they showed you what it And you weren't getting that anywhere else.
Alan:I was not. I was not. I knew I was a Christian, but I was stuck. Nobody was helping me take the next step forward. And that has always meant a lot to me because I learned that salvation is not just, well, why are you a Christian?
Alan:I get to go to heaven. Like, no, that's not what it means. It means you get to be a part of the family of God. You get to go to work every day with Jesus Christ. You get to experience community.
Alan:You get to become a disciple. You get to be a part of doing some good down here. And so that was taught to me at this church. And so that was the most meaningful experience for me was what that church began to teach me about my life with Christ.
T.J.:And those are good takeaways as well. So
Alan:Oh, yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. So I shook it up a little bit with you. Same question, maybe a different way to ask it. But, so since I sprung that on you, Alan, do you have anything else pertaining to early encounters and other meaningful experiences?
Alan:I just really began to to learn to listen to the Holy Spirit. And I describe the Holy Spirit as a push. It's a push. You're having a conversation in your head and you just can't let it go. And it's not with yourself.
Alan:Is a fun one. It has to do with my wife. I had gone to school with her at Arkansas College, but then after our sophomore year, I went somewhere else. And before I went to seminary, was like, I've got to learn how to sing. So I went to a singing school that her family was in charge of.
Alan:Didn't know it at the time. Closing night program, here comes my wife. Not my wife yet. He doesn't recognize me because I cleaned up. Cut my hair, I cleaned up.
Alan:Someone had to tell him who I was. Well, she came over and started talking to me. Well, at the end of the program, I go back to say hello to her and she gives me the best hug in the whole world. Best hug. Well, I had kind of told myself I'm not going to get involved in any relationships because I'm going to seminary.
Alan:So I leave that night and God is just wrestling with me, wrestling with me, turn around, turn around, turn around. I'm like, No, God, I ain't dealing with it. I'm not dealing with relationships. I'm just going to go to seminar. God says, Turn around.
Alan:Minutes into it, I finally hit the brakes, pull into a driveway and turn around. I go back. My wife is pulling out. I come sliding in. She hops out of her car, runs up and goes, Is everything okay?
Alan:And I go, I just need your number. I've learned to listen to God. God usually gets it right. And so I've really learned that when the Holy Spirit comes upon me and when God starts pushing me and God starts moving me, it took me a while to finally just start going, okay, God, okay. I'll go, I'll do, I'll be.
Alan:And so that that has happened in my ministry so many times to where I'll be driving by a house, God will go, you need to turn around, you need to turn around. And I will God, you know, got things to do. And I was like, you need to turn around. And so I'll turn around, and I'll go back and I'll go into the house exactly where I need to be at that moment. And so I've learned, I've learned to just listen.
Alan:Just listen to that push. How do you
T.J.:how do you know that this is the voice and the workings of the Holy Spirit and not our own desires, our own wishes. And how how do you do that discernment between Alan and the workings of God through the Holy Spirit? What Alan wants.
Alan:I know what Alan wants. I have no doubt what Alan wants. And I'm having a conversation with my head with God. And God clearly is telling me what he wants. And that's usually something quite opposite of what I had in mind.
T.J.:You're right.
Alan:And when I do what God asked me to do, I am forever amazed that it's always exactly where I need to be when I need to be there. I went to a hospital one time. A man was on his deathbed. The wife had asked me to come up. I mean, I knew both of them was in the room, and we talked to him about becoming a Christian.
Alan:And he accepted Christ that day. There were cheers. There were everything. Thought I was done. So I hopped on the elevator, went down to the First Floor.
Alan:And as soon as I get off the elevator, God just starts putting on my mind, you need to go back up, you need to go back up. I'm like, God, I'm done. We're done. I go through the rotating doors walking out. Gosh, she's like, you need to go back up.
Alan:You need to go back out. I'm like, I just late night. I need to get home. I stopped. I said, okay.
Alan:I even remember dropping my hedges. Okay. Go back through the revolving doors, go up to the elevator to the Ninth Floor, go down the hallway. Out walks his sister. I meet her in the hallway.
Alan:I go, I need to talk to you. She was I need to talk to you. So we find a side room. And she wanted to accept Jesus Christ as her Savior also. So I went back down that elevator after that, went to those double doors and I went, God, you're pretty amazing.
Alan:You're pretty amazing. And so it's just now, my life does not revolve around these these constant conversations. When I'm out fishing, god's not telling me cast over there, cast over here. No. But when god puts something on my heart, I've learned to just go, okay, god.
Alan:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so
T.J.:so listening to the the Holy Spirit is giving you some purpose and direction. What else? Having a faith in Jesus Christ is giving you your purpose and your direction.
Alan:I think my Christianity can be summed up in kind of a couple words and that is giving me my life. It's giving me my life. Everything that I have in my life is because of my walk with Jesus Christ. My ministry, my wife, my child, just everything revolves around that. So this relationship I have with God, this relationship that I have by taking up my cross every day and following Jesus has given me everything.
Alan:It gives me my assurance, it gives me my strength, it gives me my hope, it gives me my purpose, it gives me the vision to be able to see my congregation, you know, and see needs and to be able to reach out and help them, you know, and be a part of their life and allow them to be a part of my life. And so it's just given me my life. And so everything that I do revolves around that relationship, you know? And this relationship I have with God has taught me how to have a relationship with other people, you know, because I'm a firm believer that I can't have this relationship with God and have a relationship with somebody else that's a contradiction of what I have with God. So God's like, I'm trying to teach you.
Alan:I'm trying to teach you how to have relationships. I'm trying to teach you how they work. And so that's pretty much how it works. It's given me my life, you know. And so don't know if that answered the question.
Alan:Yeah.
T.J.:Well, speaking of relationships, what relationships do you have or have you had that have strengthened your relationship with Christ? People that you've run into, people that have been significant in strengthening that relationship.
Alan:I think those little old ladies at Schimmel Campground, just the way they loved me and took care of me, just the way they taught me. I have had a lot of mamas and daddies. Okay. I remember I wasn't raised in the church. I was saved when I was 17.
Alan:And so maybe four years later, I'm in the ministry. So I've got a lot to learn about community and about being a part. And so I had a lot of mamas and daddies that we had relationships where they were very comfortable in being honest with me. They would tell me when I was getting it right. And they would tell me when I was getting it wrong.
Alan:And I would always end those conversations with thank you. You know, thank you for being my spiritual mama and daddy. Had gentlemen, ladies. One man stands out particularly, his name was Otis. He was 87 years old and I was responsible for taking him to the doctor.
Alan:I was responsible for taking him to the store. Know, every time we'd come home, his wife Isabella would have biscuits and gravy cooked. And so it was a win win situation. I helped them and they helped me. But I learned so much from just having conversations with him, going to the doctor and back and forth and just talking.
Alan:And I learned a lot about Christianity and the Christian community. And he was kind of like my spiritual grandfather. And so I've had a lot of people like that in my life. In my present church, have several ladies that you know, they do not mind telling me what they think. And I'm glad we have a relationship with like that, because it's a good, it's a good honest conversation.
Alan:You know, and I always appreciated people that that were that way. And I've had several mamas and daddies in church.
T.J.:Now you were telling me earlier today that your initial plan for schooling was in chemistry. Correct. Science oriented. And then there was a there was a change. You're you're in the ministry now.
T.J.:You mind kinda retelling that or sharing more detail that you had plans?
Alan:Yeah, I was I'm I'm supposed to be a pharmacist. Okay. I'd finished my chemistry degree, finished my minor in mathematics at University of Central Arkansas. That summer, because of just my experiences at church and just being involved, and they had given me opportunity to speak at certain times. Now you have to understand, I stuttered for twenty two years of my life.
Alan:When I accepted the call to the ministry, the first question I had from my mom and dad was, are you sure? And so, somewhere after my junior year, I'm feeling this calm. I'm feeling this push. I'm laying there at night looking at the ceiling going, Oh my gosh. You know?
Alan:And so I'm taking a walk through the woods. I had a bluff. I'd go out and pray on, but I knew what God was leading me to do. And so that summer I talked to the minister at the church, Wayne Wood, and told him I felt called and the wheels began to roll, you might say. But again, that was another opportunity where I learned to just feel what God was leading me to do.
Alan:And I wrestled against it because the hardest thing about that call was telling everybody. I was working at a pharmacy. I was a pharmacy technician. The plan was for me to go to seminary for three years and then come work for them. So the hardest thing was going in there because one of the pharmacists was an atheist.
Alan:I knew what he was going to say. And so I walked in there and I told them what I was going to do. And some of them were like, well, that's just great. He didn't say that's just great. He said, are you sure you know what you're doing?
Alan:I mean, he gave me the once over. But I stood my ground. I said, this is what God wants me to do. He said, well, okay. And so that sometimes the call is easy to discern.
Alan:Yeah, I know God's calling me. It's just getting all the dominoes to fall and telling everybody and changing your life so completely in your plan, you know, especially I knew I was going be doing a lot of talking from the pulpit. My mom and dad had a very good question. Are you sure about this? And so, fortunately, really never stuttered in the pulpit though.
Alan:Now during the pandemic, I could still see where I have that tendency sometimes, I've never just been locked up. It's like, God just keeps me flowing, I guess. So but my call was a major transition in a lot of ways. But that's kind of where I just learned to trust in God. And just say, okay.
T.J.:Yeah, I mean, is life altering. I mean, you were almost complete on a career path, the education, and then then had to change it. Man.
Alan:Had to change. Everybody just kept telling me, creatures don't make much. But it's like, I'm not I'm not doing it for the money. If I was doing it for the money, I'd still be in pharmacy school. Yeah.
Alan:Yeah.
T.J.:So we've talked about the past for a little bit. Let's talk about the the present and what's happening in your ministry right now.
Alan:We, of course, the pandemic hit so you can't help but mention the pandemic. And I was really pleased with the church that I'm part of because we really never missed the beat. We had to figure out, of course, how to go virtual. But we also developed some ministries within it. We never just said, well, it's pandemic, let's just stop being a church.
Alan:We developed some outreach programs, we fed people on Thursday, every Thursday you could come by and drive through. And what I discovered about the drive through meals was this, It gave me a chance to see everybody because I couldn't you lost contact with them. And so they would drive through and I'd sit there and talk to them for five or ten minutes, you know, and then they drive on the next car would come through.
T.J.:Now were these meals, these four church members, community, both?
Alan:Anybody and everybody in the community, it didn't matter. Just just drive through. Started out serving about 200. I think there at the end, we were serving about 100. And so but it was just a way to connect.
Alan:My older people would get out. They normally wouldn't get out, but they'd get out and drive through. And we had masks on and stuff. We'd give them their meal and we'd talk with them. It was just a way to stay connected.
Alan:To me, was an important thing that I learned. People like community. People like someone worrying about them. You know, and so there were some people that came through that weren't a part of our church, but I basically kind of became their pastor, you know. How was this hospital visit?
Alan:How was this? And so you just connect. And so my church got behind it. It wasn't just me. Said, I told them, I said, can't do this without you.
Alan:And they got behind it. We showed with masks and gloves and hamburgers, hot dogs, smoked chicken, pork, you name it. And I was just so thankful for them to just get behind it and we pulled it off. And so coming out of the coronavirus, my church was just kind of ready to go, you know? And so ministry wise, I'm looking forward to the fact that I finally went to the hospital.
Alan:It was one year and three months since I'd been to a room in a hospital. You just couldn't get in. And so they finally opened that. So that part of my ministry is back and running because I really, that's a part of my ministry that I don't want to say enjoy because people are sick. But it's a necessary part of my ministry in a sense that I'm able to be there for them during some difficult times.
T.J.:Right? You're pastoring, you're not Yes. Necessarily preaching or teaching or you're not a prophet or I mean, you are there to pastor?
Alan:Pastor holding hand answer questions and just doing just just being there. And so and so I think that's probably the best part of coming out of the COVID presently is I'm able to to do more of what I like to do in the sense of what I feel I need to do. Go to the hospitals, went to some ball games, you know, you go visit people at ball games. You just have the community more, you've got more freedom now. So slowly getting back into what I consider how I do ministry because it was it was definitely a mess during Coronavirus just just figuring out how to make that work and keep it going.
T.J.:Yeah, yeah. So playing to your strengths working to your strengths for sure.
Alan:Yeah. Yeah. Which is just being a part of my people's lives and just being part of the community's life. Because I think that's where you you make connections. You know, I tell people I said, I preach for an hour on Sunday, but that's not where I do most of my work.
Alan:Because
T.J.:your sermons are sixty minutes long?
Alan:No. No. We got a lot of singing. Okay. A lot of singing.
Alan:My wife my wife is the song leader and got a lot of singing, and she'll tell you. Sometimes the songs mean more to her than the preaching. So she's the song leader, and we yeah. I tell people, if I can't say it in twenty minutes, it doesn't need to be said. That is my mentality.
Alan:If I can't say it in twenty minutes. And so I think my congregation appreciates that. And they remind me of that when sometimes I may go over. Yeah. But twenty minutes.
Alan:Twenty minutes about it. And so but that kind of comes from my background too. I've listened to I've listened to some long winded preachers and I'm kind of like, man, if you just stop right then you had us, you had us right in your hand, you had us right where God wanted you, you just kept going. So
T.J.:Well, with the pandemic, I think the world has had a lot of time to kinda self reflect, look at our relationships, look at our contribution to the to the church and to Mhmm. Society and to the world. I I don't know if you took advantage of that time or not, but I I like asking everybody, where where do you see God working in your life today? Because we've definitely had this opportunity to reflect on all of our relationships, and I think it was an important time for us as Christians.
Alan:I think there's a lot that happened during the pandemic that needed to be addressed. That needed to be brought up.
T.J.:Like what?
Alan:Well, like the racial issues. That was profound to me. I'm a golden rule kind of guy, go under others as you would want them to you, and I would never want that done to me. You know? I would never want to be treated that way.
Alan:And so, my understanding is I won't treat people that way. And so, the topic was so much out there in the front. It was an opportunity to talk about There's an opportunity to address it. And I've had to address it in churches before. The second church I went to, somebody used a word that was very inappropriate.
Alan:And I told my wife, I said, we may get fired over the sermon, but we're going to address it. And so thank goodness the church listened and everybody was on board when we got through that period. And so it's an opportunity to address things. And so, you know, we've had elections. We've had a lot of things go on that it was an opportunity to deal with anger.
Alan:It was an opportunity to deal with mistrust. It was an opportunity to deal with the truth of God. It was an opportunity to deal with what's the most important thing, and that is your life with Christ and your relationship with God. Don't ever do anything that sacrifices that. Always keep that up front.
Alan:And so there was an opportunity to have a lot of conversations that I normally have, but they took specific emphasis during this period. There was also the struggle with just everything that was happening with coronavirus, kind of figured that out. I was just kind of telling people, I said, the only thing you need to figure out every day is that God's holding on to you and you're holding on to God. And just let God get you through. That's the only question right now that you need to make sure you have answered.
Alan:Because there's a lot of ones that we can't answer. That one you know. So just hang on to him and let him hang on to you. So it was an opportunity to teach people about the value of being in a relationship with God, especially in very uncertain time. Everybody's worried and questioning.
Alan:You know, I said, well, run to your answers. Run to what you do know to be true. And so we, it was a trying time and a scary time, especially for my older people. My older people were scared to death when you hear every day the percentage of people who are passing away over 70. It was scary to them.
Alan:It was scary. And and they needed help. And they needed some comfort and they needed some assurance.
T.J.:So Alan back, back to my question, we'll circle back around. Where do you see God working in your life?
Alan:Oh, in my life? Yeah. What? I think as a teacher, as a pastor, as a shepherd, God wakes me up every day and says, let's go to work. We are the answer to his prayer when he looks at the multitudes and he says, y'all need to pray that God sends people out into those fields.
Alan:We're the answer to their prayers. Every day I wake up and I'm still here in this world, God's got something for me to do. And so my ministry today is not much different than my ministry twenty years ago. I'm still trying to do the same thing. The circumstances may change, but yet I'm still trying to do the same thing.
Alan:And that is to help people in their relationship with God and help them day by day understand how God can help them. So, yeah, that fire is still kind of burning bright. And so I haven't discovered something new. I'm just discovering new situations every day you might say, you know, now some things in thirty years of ministry, it's kind of like, I've been here done that. I know what to do.
Alan:Some things are brand new. Pandemic was brand new.
T.J.:Right, right. And you meet new people as well,
Alan:new people, new people developing relationships. You know, something I learned in my ministry that I use even today is that I let people be who they are. It's not my job to change them to make them mini mes of me. It's not my job. An example of that is we had a guy in my second church, and we were fixing to build a church, and he was hardheaded.
Alan:And he's a hardheaded guy. But my understanding of just letting people be who they are, but just direct them into ministry, I said, god made you hardheaded for a reason, and we're gonna use that. Yeah. You hard headed. Yes.
Alan:And I said, we're gonna use that talent for the building of the kingdom of God. I told him, I said, when we start building this church, and we're gonna start questioning and start backing up and start doubting, I want you to keep us going. And he never failed. That grit, grit, whatever he had, he just, he wouldn't drop the bone. You know, I often say, he wouldn't drop the bone.
Alan:He would carry it. And we built a brand new church And he had a whole lot to do with it. Because he just wouldn't let us back up and stop. And so it's what I learned a long time ago, when I meet new people, first
T.J.:thing
Alan:I do is I figure out who they are, Get to understand them. But the first one thing I never say is, okay, now that I know you, I'm gonna change you. No. I go, now that I know you, I'm gonna take you and who God made you to be, and we're gonna use that to build the kingdom of God.
T.J.:I would respond to Alan. I would go, no, I'm too hard headed. I'm not gonna let you do anything to me.
Alan:Well, you see, he was the guy that hired me there for one purpose. And that was to build that church. He was on the session and he told me, and so I called him out and said, well, if you call me, I'm calling you, you got a job that you do. And so that job is to not let us stop, not let us stop. And so, so yeah.
Alan:Yeah, he was a wonderful man. He was a wonderful man. I did his funeral and I think I wept through the whole night because he was just a wonderful man.
T.J.:But hardheaded.
Alan:In a wonderful, wonderful, God blessing way. Yes. Yes. It was.
T.J.:Yep. Alright. Since we're talking about the church, let let's expand that conversation.
Alan:And Okay.
T.J.:Looking at at the church, Alan, what what ideas, what hopes, what dreams do you have for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
Alan:I think my dream for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church has been a stream from its outset. And that is to help people find their relationship with God. Help people grow in that relationship and become disciples and become a part of changing this world in which we live. I'm excited about our foreign missions. What's going on in that church, at least within the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Alan:I'm excited about how those fields are growing. And sometimes I'm like, man, we need that fire here. I had 14 Columbians sitting in a hotel room at the last GA, and each one of them had a chance to talk. And I'm sitting there going, they get it. They get it.
Alan:We need to get that.
T.J.:What is it?
Alan:It is that fire and that deep understanding that God can do things and move things and change people and change lives. And it's kind of like, oh my gosh, I'm just sitting there going. That's what we need here in America. Got it everywhere else. It's just like the other church in America has kind of lost that.
Alan:And it's kind of like, that's something that I hope we find again. So maybe we become the mission field for them to come here and kind of help us. Like, remember, remember how this works? Remember what God can do? You remember?
Alan:And so, and so I think sometimes in America, we become overly intellectual. And we lose that, that, that deep feeling of relationship with God that can really give you the strength to do some amazing things through God. So, you know, the first church I took, I was told not to take it. I was told not to take it. And so I went up there and I was supply at 30 people.
Alan:But I discovered really quickly what they needed was a little TLC. They just needed some tender loving care. And the more I tender loving care them, the more they tender loving cared me and the more I couldn't go. And so when they gave me a call to become their pastor, I said yes. Now the guy back in San Mateo sent me up there.
Alan:What are you doing? I'm like, hey, it's not an intellectual exercise. Go and I do what God's telling me to do is relationships. And I formed them. And, and so I was what they needed at the time.
Alan:And they were what I needed at the time. And so we, we grew together.
T.J.:And you were at that congregation for for a while, weren't you?
Alan:Well, I was there for eight years. And then I went to faithful portal in Batesville. Was there for eighteen.
T.J.:Okay. All right.
Alan:All right.
T.J.:I had those two confused.
Alan:Yeah. Baseball was kind of the same situation, you know, just they needed some ten eleven care too. They had some good some good pastors before me. But it was just kind of my time, I guess.
T.J.:Alright. So one of your hopes and dreams is just to have a fire for for Christ within the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and that desire for relationships.
Alan:Yeah. Relationships with God. When I read scripture, it's all about our relationship with God. And sometimes we get caught up in the symptoms. We get caught up in all this other medicine and God's like, I want a relationship with you.
Alan:I want a relationship with you. And then I want you to have relationships with people. And I think if we get back to forming those relationships with God and with each other and sharing that good news of what that relationship means in our lives, then I think you can't help but grow. Think you can't help but bring about some good news. Now, I'm not a numbers guy.
Alan:I don't go, Oh, my church is doing good if the numbers are growing. My church is doing good if we're the hospital we're supposed to be, where people come in and they get help, and then they become helpers themselves. And I think if you become that, God goes, Okay, I can send people. And so you're just available to be there and help form a relationship. So I think if we just become a bunch of little hospitals everywhere, virtual hospitals, think God will send you people to help.
T.J.:Okay. Yeah. Because because I was gonna ask you, how how do you develop those relationships, and how do you create those relationships among other people and and even with inside our own denomination? So not only do you have relationship with the community that we're a part of, wherever we live, wherever we serve, but relationship within the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. I think that also has to be considered as well.
T.J.:Yeah. Go please. Go ahead.
Alan:I think you go to work with people. The people I know best in the coming to Presbyterian Church are the people I work with. Be it at the denominational level or be it at the Presbyterian level. The these are people I work with. And it's the same thing at church level.
Alan:If my people are working, I'm working beside them. And that's where we get to know each other. And so if I'm at camp, I'm working beside those people, you know, doing what I can. And so at whatever level, you just have to be willing to work because Christianity is about work. You know, and so if you work beside one another is where you really get to know one another.
Alan:And so I think that's the people I know best all the way around are the people I work with, you know? And so and so at whatever level I get plugged in, I like I like to work with people, you know? And I like to work with them honestly, and I like to work with them truthfully. And I like to know who they are, and they like to know who I am, and and we know what each one's getting. You know?
Alan:Right.
T.J.:Because our service and our work complements each other.
Alan:Yeah. Oh, yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. I mean, rarely does it conflict when we are serving and working together. Yeah. Because we're not serving one another. We're serving God.
T.J.:We're serving the community. We're we're in ministry together.
Alan:I I tell people at every church I've been to, I said, if we're not doing anything, we're just sitting there looking at each other. And that's never a good but if we're doing something, if we're doing something, then we're looking outwardly at what God has for us to do. And so we need to stay busy. We need to be living out our Christianity. We need to be doing things.
Alan:Because if we'll do that, we'll be healthy, And we'll be what God needs us to be. But if we don't do anything, we're just gonna be sitting there looking at each other. We'll be thinking about the differences. They're gonna be thinking about personalities and this and that. And it's like, I tend to keep my churches busy.
Alan:Because then they're looking at God, they're looking at what God has to do, they're working together, and it just goes better. And so I think that's denominational wider. Any level, any level I think that's how God kind of has it working. So,
T.J.:well, and how can folks continue to be a part of your faith journey and learn more about it?
Alan:Oh, geez. Or
T.J.:where can we find you if we want?
Alan:Okay.
T.J.:There's another way to ask the question.
Alan:Okay. I do have a Facebook page. And so, but I'm not going to plug it because I want this to be about God. I want this to be about my journey with God, even though that's part of a journey, but I want this to be about a relationship with God. So I'm not gonna plug my Facebook site.
Alan:And so because I am so thankful to be able to have this conversation with you and I wanted it to be about this conversation. And so
T.J.:Well, we can we can find we can find you on Facebook like many, many people.
Alan:Bairnfort Cumberland Presbyterian Church. I will plug that. Alright, go to Bairn for Cumberland Presbyterian Church and you will see me a lot.
T.J.:Alright. So Barren fork two words. Yes. Facebook page.
Alan:Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. Mount Pleasant, Arkansas,
Alan:Mount Pleasant, Arkansas. But but I am out there. And so but but thank you for this opportunity to have this conversation.
T.J.:Alan, thank you for giving me quite a bit of your time today because we
Alan:No problem.
T.J.:We talked for a while before we even hit record.
Alan:Yes.
T.J.:So, Alan, I appreciate it. And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with us on our next journey down Cumberland Road.
