Benjamin Diaz Villa - An Environment of Faith
You were listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your host TJ Malinoski. The following is a faith conversation with Benjamin Diaz Villa, an ordained elder and pianist at the First Cumberland Presbyterian Church of Houston. Ben is a PhD student, Aerospace and Engineering at the University of Texas at Austin, currently studying hypersonic aeroelasticity. In this faith conversation, we talk about being a Christian and how our search for knowledge and understanding is a journey of getting closer to God. Here is my conversation with Benjamin Diaz Villa.
T.J.:Ben, you're a PhD student at the University of Texas at Austin in aerospace engineering and engineering mechanics. And there's more to that. Do you mind breaking that down in terms of what you are studying and what your vocation is?
Ben:Absolutely. Well, thank you, TJ, for, having me here. First of all, I would like to say. If there are any other CPs out there, that are long forms, you know, you have my contact information bio that I'll give.
T.J.:We're very happy
Ben:to be
T.J.:You're creating a subgroup within the larger group.
Ben:That's right. We're gonna dominate the SCC in 20, this this football season, 2024, 25. Yeah. So I am a I'm an aerospace engineer. I got my mechanical engineering degree from the University of Houston then my master's in aerospace from UT Austin.
Ben:And then now I am completing my PhD in aerospace as well. The topic that I study is on hypersonic aerothermodynamics, aerothermoelecticity. So that's a that's a mouthful right there, but it basically is the interaction of high speed aerodynamics with structural dynamics on any type of vehicle that flies that fast. And by fast, I mean, 5 times the speed of sound or faster. And so a typical example that I give is, the space shuttle, was one of those space planes hypersonic vehicles that when launched into orbit, the orbit would be 17 1,000 plus miles per hour.
Ben:And if you make the math, it turns out to be Mach 25 or 25 times the speed of sound. And, upon reentry, it would decelerate, but it would still be hypersonic. And so, I deal with how the structure is going to heat up. You know, it's going to expand. It's going to to deform.
Ben:And, how, you know, the large pressure of air is, making that structure deform. And so that's what I study in in aerospace engineering.
T.J.:So you're really looking for materials that is able that is malleable, that is able to expand, contract, bend, and then fall back into its maybe original shape prior to hypersonic speed.
Ben:That's right. Yes. And the reason it gets hot is because for I'm going to explain it in very basic terms. There's a lot of Please. Friction, skin friction, and, the drag from high speed flight just basically, when you're traveling that fast, the aircraft is splitting the air molecules.
Ben:So you have oxygen, which is o 2. You have nitrogen, which is n 2. And so that oxygen gets split apart into separate oxygen atoms. Your nitrogen will also get split apart. And what happens is you you release the air releases electrons as well, and so you create plasmids.
Ben:It's so much so hot upon reentry that you're you're it's comparable to the temperatures, of the sun, basically.
T.J.:No way. So are there materials that actually can that are human made that actually can sustain those temperatures for short periods of time without, like, total destruction?
Ben:The we've made advances, and there are ablative materials. So ablation is when the solid turns into a gas and it and that's a very destructive, phenomenon there. But that is the closest we've gotten to, being able to have a material that can withstand that. And this all comes back from, you know, the Apollo mission and the X15 flights where, they were trying to solve this problem and they they find they found that ceramics and carbon carbon composites, are good insulators and, ablators. So, they actually have released videos of this where they take a torch and they fire it on a sample, like a space shuttle tile sample.
Ben:And on one side, it's gonna be red, glowing hot. On the other side, they ask the person to touch it. And and they actually touch it, and they they don't get burned because it's actually a very good insulator.
T.J.:Wow. Wow. I I think I would have to use, like, an infrared thermometer on the backside to confirm the temperature before I ever touched it with my index finger.
Ben:That is yeah. Infrared is one of the many diagnostics we use to measure temperature on that surface.
T.J.:Are you involved much in the actual, propulsion? I mean, because you're talking about Mach 5 man beyond. Our traditional means of propulsion is, well, fuel or some, you know, in gas or liquid form. Are there areas where we can explore different ideas, different methods of propulsion instead of this old fashioned 19 forties?
Ben:Yes. One of the side projects I have while doing this PhD is, I'm working on a scramjet project. So, airplane, propulsion, if you get on a Boeing 737, you see the g engines, their, turbo engines. And the, basically they you have in the middle of the engine, it combusts, the air. So it pressurizes the air, and then it injects fuel and it combusts.
Ben:And all of that, the air inside is subsonic, which means that it's traveling through the engine, at speeds lower than the speed of sound. There above that, you use a ramjet, which is from Mach 2 to 3 all the way to Mach 6. The ramjet basically is just a special shaped tube that, compresses the air, without any moving parts. So it has no spinning shaft or rotor or anything like that. And the combustion inside still occurs at subsonic speeds because the air has been decelerated to subsonic speed.
Ben:But then the next level up is scramjet. So scramjet is still like a ramjet. It is a specially designed tube. That's what I call it. And it the combustion happens at supersonic speeds.
Ben:And so imagine lighting a match in a hurricane. Right? It's you can't because the the wind will just blow it off. So the the challenge is trying to combust the air at those speeds. And so in the wind tunnel that we have here at UT Austin, we can put a scramjet model inside and then replicate, combustion by changing the back pressure of the of that engine and looking at how the incoming aerodynamics are affected by, you know, that back pressure.
T.J.:When you do the testing and something works or fails, what is the reaction among your colleagues? Do you get excited and cheer and and, you know, have a great commentary? Kind of like you're at, you we were alluding to, sports earlier, football earlier. It it do you have that type of atmosphere where you're sort of in awe of, like, woah, it really it worked, or or that thing flung apart before we could even get to Mach 5 and beyond? What what is that environment like?
Ben:It is I would say, you know, for the purposes of this podcast, I'll say it's it's an environment of faith. You have to have faith in in what you're building and testing out in the wind tunnel.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Ben:So we treated as launch day, actually. So, imagine you're you're launching a rocket for the first time and you wanted to go into orbit. It's the same feeling. You put something in the wind tunnel. You because I'm dealing with flexible structures, I want my model to be flexible enough to gather data.
Ben:But not too flexible that it breaks. And so I have to walk. You know, the fine line of, you know, how, how rigid or how flexible it should be. And when it works, I, and you get beautiful data it's it's we do celebrate, when it doesn't work, I usually have to take the walk of shame and go outside and try to look for the broken pieces because the when when the model breaks, it gets, swept down downstream. The the the wind tunnel, the wind tunnel is open to the atmospheric environment outside, and there's a whole field of grass out there.
Ben:And so I would have to do, I would have to go out there and and pick up the broken pieces. But but, yeah, I like I like that environment. It keeps you on your toes.
T.J.:Yeah. I guess it really is a walk of shame because you could be out there for a good long while finding very small pieces of your broken model. Yep. One other question I thought of, of course I have a lot because this is a new field to me. When you're collecting data, do the models in and of themselves, can they do they contain sensors and, you know, measuring tools?
T.J.:Are they or are they all external or both?
Ben:Yes. So because we're dealing with tight space in the wind tunnel, our cross section is 6 inches by 7 inches. So our models have to be, no less wider than an inch and a half. And then they can be as long as they can be, like, a foot long. But because of that, we cannot put a lot of sensors inside.
Ben:So, we do rely on optical diagnostics, which basically means that we use cameras and other types of photo detectors to measure the flow, measure the structure deformation. But we can also put what's known as accelerometers inside the model. And so accelerometers, they measure the acceleration. And with that, you can get an idea of the dynamic deformation of the structure. And you can also put strand gauges.
Ben:And that can also tell you how much strain there is on on the structure. And so strain is, a measure of of deformation as well.
T.J.:So What a rewarding field you must be in because you get to create and then test, and you're able to see progress along the way, or failure, and then make adjustments to be able to yet try again. I mean, it's like the the best that the world has to offer because when you fail, you have additional days, you know, to, oh, okay, we'll just make this adjustment. Because in some areas of life, you're not afforded, you know, failure. You can really do damage, let's say, to a relationship, say something awful or terrible, to hurt the other person. And not that you can't, you know, seek forgiveness and provide healing, but it's not it's not quite the same as a as, a nonhuman model, you know, you know, where you can just start again.
Ben:Yeah. That's true. Especially within aerospace, we have the mentality of, try to fail as fast as possible and learn from them. That's why you see so many SpaceX Starships or SpaceX Rockets being blown up, and and they can do that because it actually helps them in the long run, try to learn fast because they're trying to, you know, outcompete the other companies. That can you're right.
Ben:It can't be applied, specifically to interpersonal relationships. You know, it's a person has. A lot of words as as a human being as a child of God. And and so you can't treat another person as as if it were a machine you can break down and and and and build back together. You cannot do that.
T.J.:Yeah. You would have no friends. You would have no relationships. If you got up one morning, it was like, I'm going to test this relationship and see what it takes, stress it to the point of it failure. You may not be able to restore that relationship.
T.J.:But the field that you're in, Ben, is kind of, is counter to maybe most people's upbringings where it is succeed, succeed, succeed and avoid failure as much as possible because failure can indicate weakness, failure can indicate, maybe lack of smartness. I don't know if that's a word, but we'll use it for this conversation. And but yet, you're in a field that purposely stresses, through theory and through testing, points of failure to correct it. And that seems it seems like we've been raised to avoid failure, and here you are actually being paid to in a way to fail. That's not your ultimate goal, But, yeah, that seems strange.
T.J.:Tell me more about that.
Ben:Yeah. It is. And I've I've seen you know, I think there has been a shift over the past century of the mindset in the in the work working culture. Because now, you know, I'm also taking business courses at school of business, at UT Austin. And within the startup world, you don't have that same mentality of you can't fail.
Ben:You actually wanna fail in the startup world. And and something I've learned is that if you wanna get funding for your own startup company, from venture capitalists, the the they are actually looking for people that have experience in in the failure of 1 company of, you know, starting their own company because that experience actually teaches them a lot. And so they they're actually more prone to funding a venture by someone who has failed in the past and has learned from their mistakes and now has a better way of doing things. So it definitely the working culture, especially within the technical field, has changed over the past years.
T.J.:Ben, how did you get interested in the field of engineering and aerospace engineering and just engineering mechanics?
Ben:Yes. Well, ever since I was a child and I remember being in Colombia, I moved, we moved to the US, when I was 6. So I still have a lot of memories from when I lived there. And, I can remember saying from a young age that I wanted to be an astronaut. Just looking at people floating in space, I always thought they had some sort of superpower because they were floating.
Ben:And so I was like, okay, I want to do the same. And then, and then here in the US I started watching the winter Olympics and you, you know, you have the, the sport where they, the ski jump. And so they, they jump and they like seem to fly or glide for a long time until they land. And so that also caught my attention. And and I learned later, oh, it's due to the aerodynamics that the person can actually, you know, jump for long distances.
Ben:And, and so I mixed the 2, and I said, yeah. I wanna be an aerospace engineer. The reason I got my mechanical engineering degree from the didn't have an aerospace program. But I knew that I I was gonna get a master's and a PhD in aerospace ultimately. So, mechanical was the closest thing.
Ben:And, so I stuck it out for 4 years in mechanical and later on, transferred to to UT for that for aerospace.
T.J.:How long have you been in the position that you currently have?
Ben:PhD program?
T.J.:Well, just know in terms of, career. Right? Or is your PhD oh, let me think about my question here. So you're a student, but you also you're a student, but you also have to you have bills to pay. So is that part of your PhD program or do you you actually have a vocation on top of while you're studying?
Ben:Yes. So I have 2 separate, sources of income to help pay, for everything. So I have I've been blessed to get a national fellowship, which is called the NSF GRFP fellowship. It's given to graduate students in all of the sciences. And so that gives me a livable stipend.
Ben:And it also pays for tuition and everything else. And then on the other end, I also, I'm the pianist of my church, in Houston. So I actually travel back and forth every weekend from Austin to Houston, and I am the pianist in the, morning worship service. So it's all traditional, traditional hymns. I, you know, I sight read classical music for pre ludes and post ludes.
Ben:I accompany the choir, and then the afternoon worship service, which is the, Spanish worship service. That's where I help direct the music. So, we sing more contemporary songs. And, and sometimes it's a mix of Spanish and English, or sometimes it's just in Spanish. But, so I do that on the weekends.
Ben:And I cannot on the weekends, I also see my parents. So that's a that's a big plus as well. And I can still be active in the church. So I do make that I sometimes make the drive from Austin to Houston, or I just take the bus, which is way better because I can just read or study or take a nap.
T.J.:How long of a bus ride is it?
Ben:It's over 3 hours because it does stop along the way. Mhmm. Yeah.
T.J.:And you've been playing the piano at Houston first since high school. I've I've heard you play there before. When did you get into music? Have you always been into music?
Ben:Yeah. Well, my dad, he plays the guitar. He's started teaching me the guitar, and then, and then I was in middle school choir, and that's how I started being more interested in playing the piano. And so my parents paid for piano classes. And I took piano classes all the way through, all the way through college as well.
Ben:And, I've had the position as pianist at my church since, high school, actually, since 2014. Mhmm. So it's I'm gonna be, celebrating 10 years, this coming October.
T.J.:That's amazing. 10 years. My Colombian brothers and sisters have this knack, this love for music, which I've always admired, especially with musical instruments, which a talent I do not have. So did you fall did playing the piano come naturally to you, or was it was it a difficult practice?
Ben:So it kinda did, you know, being inquirer, they taught me how to sight read and soulfetch. And one of the daily activities the choir teacher would do is he would, play 2 notes and then you would have to say what the interval was or what the solfege for it was. And I was really good at that. I do not have perfect pitch, but I do have relative perfect pitch, which means that if you play a song, and then you tell me what key it is in, then I can replicate it on the piano because I already know what the key is in. And I and in my head, I, I can think of notes in both in and in their actual names, a, b, c, d, e, f, g.
Ben:And that's how it came to me. And so I started playing on the piano without any instruction at all because of the music theory that I have from choir. And then after getting lessons, I saw that music is much more mathematical. Basic basically, music is math. And, I was really good at math too.
Ben:And so, it just came to me that, yeah, it you know, music is very enjoyable.
T.J.:Mhmm. Do you enjoy playing music more or hearing others sing and play an instrument?
Ben:I like both playing music for me, especially because I have a keyboard here at in my apartment. You know, when I'm stressed, that helps me de stress. And also helps me be creative as well. So I compose music as well. I I've written songs.
Ben:I've written Christian songs. I've also composed classically. I I love to one of my role models in composition has been, Rachmaninoff, Chopin, and Bach. Those are the main 3. And so a lot of my compositions have a weird blend of the 3.
Ben:And it's interesting because Bock is from the Baroque area. Chopin is from the romantic era and Rahman and office from the post romantic era when he died in 1943. So I've, I've I've enjoyed doing all of them, you know, listening to other people, playing by myself, and composing. So yes.
T.J.:Ben, you grew up in a Christian household, and both your mother and your father are ministers in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. Growing up, what was that environment like? Did you have theological conversations even as a young child? Did you hear theological conversations? Did you jump right in with your mother and your father and share your own perspective?
T.J.:Was it received? I've loaded you down with questions there, but kind of walk me through, the household that you grew up in and how faith interacted in in all aspects of the family life?
Ben:Absolutely. So, my parents, were in the seminary. I think they were they already had their masters, and they started teaching in the seminary in Medellin, Colombia. And I was born. So ever since I was born, I was in that theological environment.
Ben:I've been going, I was going to their classes, where they taught, Hebrew, Greek, and, and so and also being in the car rides, just being in the back seat, listening to their theological discussions as well. And I just well, I always joke about this and I say that, you know, one of my, one of the basic theological questions that has always been on my mind and it, my dad asked this question to me once is, you know, if a mosquito did Jesus while he was, you know, back 2000 years ago, did that mosquito, you know, get any special powers or any, did that mosquito, you know, get blessed from his, you know, divine blood. Questions, you know, as as trivial as that, but, you know, it makes you think.
T.J.:It does. Yeah. He's never posed that one to me. I'll try to be prepared with an answer if he ever does.
Ben:But yes. And then they they were ministers of several churches in Medellin. And so, I went with them wherever they went. So there were 4 churches, I believe that they ministered in Medellin. The one of them was, this La Centrada, which is the church in in the heart of Medellin.
Ben:The other one was in El Salado, which, was in a poor community of Medellin back then. Mhmm. I'm not sure how much it has changed because I haven't been back there in years. The other one was. Is another neighborhood.
Ben:And I can't remember the 4th one. But, yeah. So, basically, all week long, they've, I I was in the car with them going to these different services and activities. And interestingly, for my first birthday and we have video record of this. I spent the whole week eating cake at different churches.
Ben:And so I was, you can see the progression as the week went by. I just I just got tired and tired of, you know, the same thing and for my first birthday.
T.J.:That's right. You were involved in so many faith communities that well, especially as a small child, that could be advantageous because you had multiple birthday parties.
Ben:That's true.
T.J.:So you said around, 6 years old, you and your parents or maybe it would be your parents and you moved to the United States. What is some fond memories that you have in that transition, in that cultural change, in that shift, as a 6 year old, but also growing up and and continuing your schooling in the United States?
Ben:Yeah. So coming here, the only word I knew how to say was yes. So I ended up, playing random sports with a lot of different kids because the only thing I could say was, yes. Do you know how to play? Yeah.
Ben:Yeah. So that's a that's a good way for me to socialize coming here. But, yeah, learning English as a child was not that difficult. Well, it is at the beginning, but, I'd say it only takes about a year or even less than that. I started getting, thirties in my reading exams, at the beginning of 2nd grade.
Ben:And with the help of my mom, we got those grades up to 80, after I'd say, 3 months, 4 months. And then after that, I would get nineties and above in my reading assignments. So it was hard at first. And, I remember for one of the exams, you know, the very first exam where you have open ended questions, because I didn't know what was going on. I just simply copy and paste it from from the book, like, certain passages.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Ben:And and, you know, it's that's that's the that's the best I could have done. But, but then it progressed well over over time.
T.J.:Just because we grow up in Christian households doesn't necessarily mean that we are disciples of Jesus Christ. Ben, can you remember a point of time where your faith was beginning to separate away from your mother and your father, and you were having your own relationship with God?
Ben:Absolutely. Well, I'd say it, and I think a lot of young adults, go through this. That's when they they leave the house. You know, it could be for college or could be for work. That's that's when, you know, your faith is gonna be tested a lot.
Ben:And so
T.J.:Ben, whatever do you mean?
Ben:Yeah. Yeah. It's just just, you know, because you have to handle a lot a lot of things by yourself, a lot of responsibilities Mhmm. And also navigating, friendships. And a lot of people, I would say, especially if you don't have a church community to go to wherever you're going, those friendships may not be Christian, friendships.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Ben:And so, that's when you really have to hold on to your faith and and be be a shining light for everybody else.
T.J.:And you didn't really leave your core faith community because you you've been returning back to Houston every Sunday through college and now post college, all through your your higher academic career. So even if and please correct me if I'm wrong, you your core group, your accountability group, the people who love you and you love them, you were still seeing them on a a regular basis, if not a weekly basis.
Ben:Yes. That's right. And even recently, I've also, during the week, been going to bible study, in a group of young professionals, here in Austin that is not Presbyterian or coming from Presbyterian related. It's from a nondenominational church. But, I know most of the people there because, they're also PhD students.
Ben:And so we get together and our Bible studies are. Are really densely packed because we know how to analyze things. And we also have, law students in our group as well. So they they take an interesting approach to reading the Bible from a from a law policy perspective.
T.J.:Okay. That's interesting. Let me ask you some questions then. Can we, from your perspective, look at the scriptures and and look at our faith practices and pick them, deconstruct them down to a point that there is not much left, where maybe the mystery, the faith, the the love gets to a place where it can no longer even be it can no longer be articulated nor experienced.
Ben:That is a very interesting point of view because, you know, science, engineering, it's all about being able to understand and articulate what you're learning
T.J.:Mhmm.
Ben:And what you're discovering. Now there could now in the, on the spiritual side of things, you know, how they say the spirit works in mysterious ways. And they're they're re really there is truth in it because there might be some instances of our faith that just can't be calculated or can't be explained a lot. And so I do agree that there is an aspect to it where it's very much, it's very much spiritual and non non graspable. I'm trying to find words here, but yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. I believe that, the extreme approaches to faith and study in the scriptures. 1, where everything is accepted just totally blindly without any questions, without any doubt is not healthy and does not lead to, you know, a good solid life of discipleship. And then on the other extreme where everything is approached as a problem to be solved or revealed, removes elements of the unknown in the mystery or were bent on such a path to where I'm not able to accept this until a solution reveals itself. Mhmm.
Ben:And I
T.J.:think those two extremes end up missing the point of being a follower of God where you're comfortable with the unknown, but not ignorant of the unknown. And I think there's some sort of delicate balance there in our journeys of and I think it's pretty cool to have a God that's big enough and strong enough that allows us to kind of live in all those different realms to be able to ask questions and even deconstruct, but also have the ability of just I want my faith to be simple and I don't want to see the underbellies of, you know, theological ideas and concepts, and and I just want to believe, and I just want to love. And I I think both of those have merit. Both of them can also lead to places that make it difficult to return.
Ben:That's true. Yeah. And you can see it in the way some preachers, approach their theology behind the sermon that they're giving on a particular Sunday. You know, I know from from just listening to other, pastors, depending on how newly graduated they are from seminary. If they're re just straight out of seminary, their sermons are gonna be more, more based on the or the theory and the the the the technical terms that they've used.
Ben:And, but if you see more experienced pastors, you know, they they will make it more relatable to current life events. And, there's I I totally agree that you can't have one extreme or the other. You do need a a blend of both. You need a you need to know what you're what you've been studying. You need to know what other how other people have approached the bible, how non Christians have approached the bible as well.
Ben:There's been philosophers, throughout the centuries that have also, taken a, a look into theology as well. And studying all of that and then, you know, coming up with a a way to of having that help you communicate what God wants you to communicate. And and that's the the gospel of of Jesus Christ. So I I totally agree. You can't have both, either extremes.
Ben:You have to have, a mixture of both.
T.J.:We were talking off mic, about the differences and the commonalities between having faith in Jesus Christ, and even maybe broadly speaking, faith in other religions. But we'll we'll talk about the faith that we know the best and how, science, and in terms of the theoretical aspects that there may be some commonalities that faith addresses the unknown, things that maybe are unsolvable, and but there's also elements to engineering and where the theories also you're you're doing work based upon theory and hopes that it could become fact. I'm sort of meandering here, Ben. So sort of help me out in terms of how can a person of faith also be in engineering where mathematics, computation are high priorities?
Ben:Mhmm. Absolutely. Just just the basic fact that we, as humans, have the ability to discover things in our universe and have the ability to put into words put into mathematical formulas the the laws of physics and being able to explain a lot of things, and and and yet we have not been able to explain a lot of other things. Just being able to have that capability, is just evidence enough for people to know that there is a god that created this universe and that we are fortunate enough to be conscious of the fact that we live we live in God's creation. And so in a way, studying more about the world around you is a way to get closer to God.
Ben:And I believe that every time I make a new discovery from the experiments that I make, that no one else has done because that's what a PhD is about is trying to move the circle of knowledge just a little bit wider every time. Just being able to do that is is very rewarding because I always, you know, tell God, you know, I I'm always grateful for being able to be the first person to discover that. And it truly is a gift that God can give to any scientist or any engineer. It's being able to say, Hey, I have all these hints for you now. It's I gave you a mind, a mind of your own, Go ahead and use it and and figure out those hints.
Ben:And and looking at the bigger scheme of things, you know, this past week, we had the eclipse here in Austin. It was super cool. And it made me think about how coincidental the fact that we have one moon, not 2 moons or 3 moons. We just have 1 moon. And that's at the perfect distance to have a total eclipse, just at the perfect distance where it could cover all of the sun.
Ben:And at the same time, know that, you know, from the Apollo years, you know, just that one moon allowed us to have so many advancements in technology. And this one moon is, in these coming years with the Artemis missions in NASA is going to help us learn a lot before going to Mars. And so it's like I relate it to, we are in an island and then there's just this little island here that if we can hop onto that one and learn from there, then we can hop onto others. And so, it's I I think that, you know, the whole solar system got created was made intentional in that way, leaving leaving hints here and there for us to figure out. And then along the way, we we we we acknowledge, hey, you know, God, that was really that was really smart of you to do that because it, you know, it was challenging, but, you know, at at at the end, we got there.
Ben:So it's it's all about the the path of getting closer to god
T.J.:Mhmm.
Ben:Within science and engineering.
T.J.:A part of that is from your approach. You then you're bringing god into the equations and the experiments. And so with each discovery or affirmation is like another layer of revelation of god. But what about some of your colleagues, coworkers, fellow students who may not be bringing that perspective into their study, into those discoveries. What are those interactions like with your friends, your colleagues, and and fellow students, because not everybody is a person of faith and then not everybody is of the Christian faith.
Ben:Well, I would say that even those that are not of the Christian faith and are in academia, they must have a faith of some kind because they are dealing with the unknown. Mhmm. And so, it is much easier to approach my my academic colleagues that are not Christians and be able to talk in Christian terms with them because they understand what faith is within their workplace. Now they they don't apply it to the faith in Jesus Christ or the faith in in the in God's eternal promise for us. But they do know what faith is.
Ben:So it is a very interesting, environment to be in, and to be able to share the the gospel with them.
T.J.:I enjoy having those conversations. I think some of my favorite theological conversations that I've had over the years are those who are not faith connected, because there's a perspective there. And sometimes it's right, sometimes it's not right of it's typically on organized religion and not necessarily a belief system in in who Jesus is and and what he means for a disciple. But I've just found those the most fascinating, the most rewarding, because I I end up learning something about myself or about the world or about God or that other person or all of those combined, and they typically have become bonding experiences that have led to additional conversations. As opposed to maybe theological conversations with other Christians, it's very easy to fall into the temptation of, I'm gonna spend this time trying to convince Ben to believe like TJ instead of an actual just a good solid conversation or, debate, just for terms of growth and instead of instead of convincing you that I'm right and you're wrong.
T.J.:At least that's been my life experience and not across the board. I'm obviously, I'm speaking generally, but, those have been my experiences.
Ben:Yes. So, recently, along the same lines, just having academic discussions with my colleagues, we do that every day. But but it is a way for me to introduce them to the church. And one of the ways I do that is recently I did a music recital. And this music recital, it is made, almost every year, to help raise funds for a scholarship we have at our church that helps, unrepresented students go to college.
Ben:So we have a scholarship fund and every recital we raise funds for that. And so this February, this was the first time we did the recital in Austin. And I invited our church music church musicians to come with me, and we played at the chapel at Austin Theological Seminary Presbyterian Theological Seminary. And because it's right across the street from the aerospace building, I was able to put up a lot of flyers around campus and especially in aerospace saying, hey, I'm going to have this music recital. And the theme of the recital was, impressionism in, art and science.
T.J.:Nice.
Ben:And so impressionism in art, you know, is after the romantic era, romanticism. And, it's in the late 1800, early 1900 as well. And so one of the most famous artists are Van Gogh and Monet. And so the theme for it, being impressionism in art and science. So the impressionism in science comes from the advances in fluid dynamics of the era.
Ben:So at the same time in the late 1800s, there was a lot of scientists studying the vortices, and water flow and turbulence and, laminar flow and all of these, cool things you see, in any type of flow, it could be an air or water. And they derive the governing equations that, define how the flow should behave. And so one of the questions I wanted to ask was, well, we have impressionism in music and art, and we also have these advances in science at the same time in the late 1800s. So, the question to ask is, did the art influence the science or did the science influence the art? And so that was a good way for me to be able to, invite a lot of my friends that are not are not Christian, and come to a chapel, an old chapel.
Ben:And then during the recital, one of the pieces, was had a Christian theme. And so I talked a lot about, how that piece tied in with the whole framework of things. And, I also showed simulations from, from the same friends that came to watch. I showed the simulations of their fluid flow, and I played music while the simulations were running in the background. So it was a very good way to introduce my non Christian colleagues to, a church environment.
T.J.:Nice. Nice, Ben. Is it possible to be able to see this program? Is it available?
Ben:It is. Yes. There's a YouTube link that shows the highlights or a summary of it.
T.J.:Okay. Alright. Alright. I I'd like to see that. That's fascinating.
T.J.:Ben, you have been part of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church since day 1 for you. And Yes. You've you've grown up in this denomination. You've experienced this denomination in multiple countries. You've been active in the youth evangelism conferences and CPYC, and many other activities in your growing up years.
T.J.:So as someone who has been heavily influenced and heavily nurtured by this denomination, I'm very interested to hear from your perspective, what are some of the greatest assets and gifts this denomination has to offer to the world?
Ben:It reminds me of general assembly back in 2014. It's was it 2014 or 2013? Can't remember. But the one of the sermons was what's wrong with the middle. And, and, and so I I'd like to reiterate that.
Ben:And we as come from the Presbyterian have no qualms about being in the middle And our theology is reflected on that. We are a church that likes to be on the frontier since day 1 back in 18/10. And I believe we can still be the church that is on the frontier. I always joke about, you know, maybe we should send a common Presbyterian pastor to space to give the 1st sermon from space. That way, we are still the church of the frontier.
T.J.:Ben, I'll begin my physical training and mental training now. I may have aged out of that program. Let's talk about, from your perspective as well, the areas, for improvement as a denomination, as a smaller family church, I would say, in the scheme of things. Where do we have room where we can grow and extend our reach and continue to love on people?
Ben:There are so many areas we could grow, and it depends on the community you're in. So if your church is right smack in the middle of the city, you know, there are areas to grow in an urban setting. If your church is in a suburban setting, there are areas to grow there. If it's close to a university campus, lots of areas to grow there. If it's in a multicultural community, you could also grow there, and and have services where it's in different languages.
Ben:But also outside from church, you could grow, because the church is not just the building. It's also going to your workplace. And so something I've learned from going to business classes is network, network, network. So get out there, try to meet as many people as you can each day. Have a tally on your whiteboard or something.
Ben:Say I met these 2 people. Great. They're in my, network, web. Just just we could grow in in in that area. Then there's certainly different areas.
Ben:So yeah.
T.J.:Our context matters of where we are and who we are when it comes to practicing our beliefs and then being intentional in sharing the good news, whether it's a new acquaintance, a stranger, family member, coworker, fellow student. I'm just rewording what you've brilliantly already said.
Ben:Yes. I mean and the and you can see it in our whole denomination. There's we have everything from churches and, small rural communities to big churches and big cities. Mhmm. And and we're still one denomination, so that's what I like.
T.J.:Yeah. Denomination was various cultures and various languages, and, we still have commonalities and I would say the core to that is how important and how outstanding the good news really is. And it needs to be shared even on the edges of the frontier, whether that's literal or metaphorical.
Ben:That's right.
T.J.:Yeah. Well, I know that you are so busy in reading books pertaining to the program that you're in, but are there any books that, you recommend that have helped you along in your faith or even to the point that it just kind of gave you a good laugh. I think religion becomes dangerous when it loses its sense of humor.
Ben:That's true. And Jesus had a lot of sense of humor.
T.J.:Well well, look look at his followers even up to today. You have to have a sense of humor if you're gonna put up with humanity.
Ben:That's right. So one of the books, I really like is the truth about God by, will woman. And it's about the 10 commandments. And so it's placed in the 10 commandments, which were written 1000 of years ago. But how they are relevant in our everyday life.
Ben:That's one. And I would recommend it to any young professional, young adult, any person who's going to college for the first time, this book will help you a lot
T.J.:Alright.
Ben:In your faith. So that's that's one. The other one is and that's and this one's more on the academic side. Every valley. So it's this book right here.
Ben:Every Valley is a, like a devotional type book, meant for the season right before Christmas. And it's it's taken from Messiah. And for every single piece within the, Handel's Messiah, it analyzes the the scripture that Handel used to help compose that piece for the church. Nice. And so I like it.
Ben:It if you have a classical music upbringing, you would be able to mix, you know, what the book is saying and what you know about music theory and classical music and how that all goes together with, the theology behind Handel's Messiah.
T.J.:Alright. Who is the publisher for Every Valley?
Ben:Every Valley that is
T.J.:Or the individual that compiled it?
Ben:Okay. Question. Jessica Miller Kelly.
T.J.:Okay. Thank you. Ben, thank you so much for giving me your Monday for this recording.
Ben:Absolutely. I
T.J.:I have enjoyed getting to know you a little bit better. And I hope I have honored you as Ben and not through the eyes of your parents. Try not to bring them up too much for you.
Ben:No. Well, being a p k p k squared. I'm sure there's other p k squareds, listening to this, but they they know what what you're talking about.
T.J.:Absolutely. And and your mom and your dad have both been previous guests on Cumberland Road, so it's been a joy to be able to, hear of your faith journey, which is connected to theirs. And you Yes. And and you and they are connected to yours as well.
Ben:Yes. Yeah. We we it's interesting. We still, we still serve in the same church as a family, all 3 of us.
T.J.:For 10 years.
Ben:That's right. Yeah. 10 years.
T.J.:Ben, thank you for being a guest, today. I really appreciated what you had to say, and you've made me feel smarter. You made me feel like I know more today than when I first got up.
Ben:Thank you. Yeah. That's that's like goal of mine, be a future professor as well. So
T.J.:Alright.
Ben:It's a good thing that I'm having other people learn something new every day.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road. If you enjoyed my conversation with Ben, please check out the other wonderful guests who have gone before him in sharing their faith. In closing is a quote from William Willemon, one of Ben's writers that he referenced earlier. The bible requires being read constantly and regularly, all of it, to modern readers accustomed bible can come across to us as a mess. To be sure, one encounters inconsistencies and contradictions, to say nothing of downright bad ideas in the bible. Scripture has a marvelous way of arguing with itself, correcting itself, one witness giving counter testimony to another. Scripture is a record of people's determination to hear god truthfully and then to follow god faithfully.
