Chris Anderson - Resurrection Gives Me Hope
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. This is The Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinowski. Music is a language, and it gives life words, meaning, and inspiration. Music connects us with God. Music can also take us on a journey, and today's guest talks about how music has impacted his faith. Reverend Chris Anderson is the minister at the Mount Olive and Pineville Cumberland Presbyterian congregations in Arkansas. Ever self aware, my conversation with Chris takes on its own journey from childhood memories, college life, relationships, suffering and loss, healing, leadership, storytelling, and even COVID. We discuss many things Chris has experienced in his life, and yet he points to the resurrection that has been giving him hope. Enjoy this conversation with Chris Anderson on the Cumberland Road.
T.J.:As a musician, a minister, and a writer, especially of the song played at the intro of this podcast, how does music speak to you? And what is it about music that that draws meaning and impact for you?
Chris:Music is everything to me. And I was introduced at a young age by my my grandmother. My grandmother was a very religious woman that played every instrument that you could possibly imagine. So she introduced me to, you know, playing guitar and even a harmonica. She could play a she could play a guitar and harmonica at the same time.
Chris:Woah. Yeah. So when I was when I was younger, I didn't really take to it. You know, knowing me and the oppositional defiant, you know, nature's personality or whatever that that I tend to have or I did when I was younger, I would kinda rebel against that. So I had to learn later on in my and later on in life how to how to play those instruments.
Chris:And so it's music's everything, man. It's everything.
T.J.:What do you think the connection between music, whether it's an instrument or a voice, and in God? Is there a connection between the 2?
Chris:That's a that's a very good question. Now I've often go ahead.
T.J.:Because music speaks to us, and and it's also our voice. But can God speak to us through music? And how?
Chris:It's like a it's almost like a dance in a way. You know, like, I've I've heard before that a relationship with God is like dancing. And so it could be the same the same thing with music as well. Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. I'm asking these philosophical and theological questions that I don't have an answer for.
Chris:Yeah. You are. That's that'll be fine.
T.J.:But I figured as a musician and as a writer and as a minister, you might have some insight for me.
Chris:You know, I I was reading a paper in preparation for this. I was reading a paper that I wrote in seminary. It was for the blues and the bible class and the connection between the the exile of the of the the people of Judah and, the Babylonian, you know, the conquest and all that. And, man, I started to to really see the poetry behind Lamentations and how that is just straight up poetry. That's like like music, and it's a it's a curse too, TJ, at at the same time.
Chris:I mean, really, I nobody's gonna understand that. Nobody's gonna get that. But it can be a curse unless you're focused, let unless you sit still and you really listen to god. Because I've made some whacked out music and and I've write written some whacked out songs in my younger years. But but becoming a musician or being a musician later in life, becoming a minister, that kinda changes the focus of it.
Chris:It's like I've written a song, I've written a song after a guy's life that I did a funeral for, and, you know, you just kinda take bits and pieces of it. Well, I had a word in there that my wife didn't like, and she was like, well, you're a minister. You can't put that in there now. You've gotta chain you gotta change that up. And I'm like, well, why not?
Chris:That fits his personality. She's like, you just can't do that. You can't release that. So it's a curse and it's a it's a blessing and a curse at the same time.
T.J.:Is there a particular song or a genre of music that speaks to you?
Chris:You're gonna like this. When when I was younger, my dad listened to The Doors. And Jim Morrison and The Doors, they they're they they have to be number 1 for me. You take The Doors, Led Zeppelin, any rock and roll from the late sixties early seventies.
T.J.:Yeah. There's something about that for me, that musical era, which is not even my own.
Chris:No. It's not. Yeah. But
T.J.:I'm robbing it. I'm taking it from my parents and, claiming it as my own. It hasn't pivotal for me. It has pivotal moments, the doors, Led Zeppelin, specifically the doors that has shaped shaped me in my formation, believe it or not. So as somebody who is more musically attuned than I, I wanted to ask you that that question.
T.J.:Chris, tell me more about, Josie Brown, the song that you offered up for this podcast. Okay. You were telling me tell me before we got started, but, there's a story behind the song.
Chris:Okay. So Josie Brown came when I was in seminary, and I was doing a an internship at, Lisa's place, the the room in the inn. And I was late. It was late getting there. Can you imagine that?
Chris:I was late getting there, and I ran. I go I, you know, closed door to my car, got out, ran inside, and there was a lady right there at the very first. And she was lining up to get, you know, whatever it is that we were handing out for her. And she was homeless, and it's obvious. And she was pushing a cart.
Chris:And so I just blew right past her. I didn't even say hi to her or nothing. You know? It was just like, bam. I'm I'm inside.
Chris:I'm like, hey. I'm here. You know? And so I started thinking later when I went back home and I reflected on it. I was like, man, I didn't even say hi to her.
Chris:I didn't even, you know, give her her dignity. And so I sit down and I wrote that song, with Josie Brown, which the name Josie, came from a girl back home in Batesville that was was friends with our daughter, Madison, that she lost her she lost her parents when she was, was, like, 2 years old. And so I guess somehow I saw I don't know how I saw Josie, from Batesville in her. And the name Brown came from Whitney Brown that was working that day at room and then. So I don't know so you'd ask, you know, music, they it just comes to you.
Chris:And you listen to it and you write it. And so I wrote the song about, when you see someone pushing a cart down the road, do you stop and say hello to them? You know? I I can't think of the words right now because you put me on the spot, but that's basically what the what the song is about. It's it's about giving a homeless person their dignity.
Chris:Alright.
T.J.:Well, thank you for sharing it, and, we'll play play it in its entirety at the end of the podcast. So if you don't wanna hear Chris's faith journey, you can just you can jump right on it.
Chris:It goes straight to the to the song.
T.J.:Last 2 and a half minutes, and you can catch, all of Chris's song. We jumped right into the conversation. Chris, where are you serving at?
Chris:I am the pastor, at the Mount Olive Cumberland Presbyterian Church. I've been there for five and a half years, basically, maybe a hair bit longer. That's the church I was ordained into. Before that, I served at the First Christian Church in Newport, Arkansas. And then somewhere along the way a couple of years ago, the Pineville CP church, they they lost their pastor.
Chris:And so I felt, I felt God calling me to serve there. At first, it it, you know, it started off like a lot of people. Hey. Will you be the moderator of our session? You know, and fill in that way.
Chris:And and so the the board of missions appointed me to do that. And I'll tell you this. I was I was sitting in there in that meeting with Pineville. I've been, you know, like I said, been at Mount Olive for, for 3 years. And I've I've moderated maybe, you know, 2 or 3 different sessions.
Chris:And I called Brian Puckett, my buddy, Ryan. It's at the church where my my grandparents planted a long time ago in Betel. And, I said, Ryan, I'm just gonna throw out to this session that if they change their worship time, that I would consider being their pastor. I said, they're never gonna go for it. There's no once a possible way they're ever gonna go for this.
Chris:So I went in there and I said, hey. I know you made it 11. It's the same time as Mount Olive. I said, but if you change your time, let's say to 9 AM or whatever, I would consider being your pastor. You know?
Chris:And they said, you would do that? And I'm like, oh, wow. What did I get into here?
T.J.:You didn't get a no.
Chris:I didn't get a no. And so that was probably in in May or June. By August, I was they had changed the time, and I was pastoring 2 churches. It's been it's been it's what I'm supposed to do. It's been challenging, but, it's the word god wants me.
T.J.:We were talking earlier, before we pressed record that today, September 2nd, it's a meaningful date to you and to your family. Feel comfortable in sharing a little bit of that?
Chris:Well, yeah. Today is actually my anniversary. You may have to you may I may get off on a a tangent here. I mean, you're right. This is it's it's personal.
Chris:Today is my anniversary. Mary and I got married 6 years ago. And then on September 16th, just, you know, mere a couple weeks after we had married, I I lost my brother to a a drunk driver. And, it was actually my mother's birthday. And that was, it was very difficult.
Chris:And there's no way that a new a new bride and a person that's newly married should have to have to deal with something like that coming into a new family. But, you know, Mary, she she, she dealt with it, like, with grace, like she does with everything. So that's that's it was tough, man. It took a long time to boy, we jumped right into it, didn't we, buddy? I mean, right into it.
Chris:It it took a long time to to to get over that. You know, it took a a couple of years of grieving because we had to go through court. He got charged. He he got charged with negligent homicide, the guy, and we had to go to court. And I had to watch my parents go through that, and and that trial didn't take place for probably a a year after Matt was dead.
Chris:And so it was tough watching my mom. I mean, they they brought evidence in there, you know, that we had never even you know, we'd never thought about before and had pictures and stuff. We had to turn our head. I mean, it was it was it was bad, TJ. It was bad to watch my mom and dad, you know, have to deal with that.
Chris:So it took us a good while to grieve.
T.J.:Looking back at that time and the couple years after, where did you feel and when did you feel the closest to god? And when did you feel the furthest from god?
Chris:Well, first, I mean, I I I felt the the the furthest away from God for a good a good couple of months. I had, you know, I had times where I I I questioned I I questioned my own faith. Like, I don't know if or know if I wanna even do if I'm even capable of going and being a preacher. And I literally at at that time, I I called, you know, and it was a it was a good 3 weeks after he died or so. I was so angry and so mad that I called up First Christian Church on a Saturday and said I cannot I cannot preach tomorrow.
Chris:That's the only time that I've ever done that. And how long have I been doing this? A long it seems like a long time. 9 years now, 10 years. I that's the only time I've called up on a Saturday and said, I cannot I cannot preach.
Chris:And she said, well, why not? I said, because I'm just too angry. And so I felt pretty far away from from God at that time, early on because he left 2 daughters behind.
T.J.:And when have you, during that grieving process, felt really close to God?
Chris:When I finally realized that my brother was in a better place than what this world has to offer. And it started to make sense to me. When I do funerals, I think about it a lot. And I see I see the, you know, the whole process of dying totally different than what I did before. And so I'm, yeah, I'm I'm in a better place, and understanding death and how that there's there's so much more than this world has to offer.
Chris:And there's a there's an actual place called heaven. It's a physical place. And then my brother's there and I'm gonna see him again.
T.J.:There's something about going through those waves of emotions that allows us the opportunity to seek for deeper meaning in our faith. And I think we take those things in little chunks. You know, we can't chew on it all at once. You know, we have to take it in little pieces. And I feel for you.
T.J.:I felt for you then, somebody who was getting into ministry, somebody who was newly married. So you had all this newness, but you had loss as well. And it's changed you in in how you pastor, at least how has I've seen and and talk with you since then, and your approach to to, ministering with others and with others.
Chris:Yeah. It's definitely helped me to understand people and especially when someone you know, they they lose someone. We had a member in our community die of COVID here recently, and, you know, that was tough. And I reached out to the the person that they haven't been to church here in a pretty good while. And now he's they're they're coming back.
Chris:And and I'm able to sit down and listen to him and and understand how how how difficult that it is. You know? Let me let me share this since we're on this wave of emotion. This is tough. I mean, this is hard.
Chris:But there was a a person at at Mount Olive, a year ago that died. And this guy was an elder in our church. And, man, I was really, really close to this guy and probably too close. So close that other people in the church like, hey. You're spending way too much time.
Chris:You're like over at Gary's house all the time. And I'm like, well, you know, he happens to be a, you know, a a a professional at this, and he invent stuff. He's got patents with tags, his instrument. I mean, he's a renaissance man. I mean, he's you know, I'm so I'm thinking he's more interested than you are.
Chris:You know? But, so I would go over to to Gary's all the time. I got extremely, extremely close to him. And, last year in February, we had that just massive snow like everybody did, you know, subzero temperatures below 0. And Gary just thought he all of a sudden died, man.
Chris:He was, you know, 75 years old. And the next thing I know and this is stuff they don't teach you in seminary. The next thing I know, I'm at his house, and I am helping carrying him in a body bag up the hill on a foot of snow. And I reflect on this later. I'm like, there's no other job in the world like a pastor.
Chris:It's a very unique and you said that before. We've talked about that before in the past. It's a very unique job.
T.J.:It is. I think it's one of the only ones where we get to be with an individual or family through every stage of life, every season of life, birth, school, sports, marriage, birth again, death, all these different things where another profession, you know, maybe like a physician, often only gets to see sick people. Well, we get to see those same individuals when they're having a birthday party or an anniversary.
Chris:And, man, it's a privilege.
T.J.:It is.
Chris:To be able to see that and for for people to open up their homes, you know, and for them to be vulnerable and and to trust you. And and I never wanna take that for for granted. That's a big responsibility. It is.
T.J.:We've talked, Chris, about your your relationship with, others. Let's talk about your relationship with God. K. Your relationship with God has taken you to some pretty interesting places over the years. Any of those neat places that you wanna you wanna share with me and with others who are listening of of, you never dreamed that you would find yourself there, and yet there you are or here you are.
Chris:How much, how much time do you got? How much how much space do you have on the reel? Can you change the reel out really fast enough? So, I mean, if we're if we're talking about are you talking about not not meaningful experience that I've had?
T.J.:Sure. Something meaningful just where you know that it was it was a it God was there with you during that time.
Chris:Okay. So my my earliest experience with God that I that I actually remember, okay, would be at the age of 6. My grandmother, Avis Anderson, the the lady that played every instrument in the world, you know, that taught me. She died, and I was extremely close to her. And I knew I knew that very moment that that she died.
Chris:It was 3 AM. Why at 6 years old, how do I know it's 3 AM? I don't know. But it was 3 AM. And my dad, he comes in, he turns on the kitchen light.
Chris:And so the light's on in there, and for whatever reason, god told me, said your grandmother just died, but she's okay. Now today, psychologists and people like that would tell you that's synchronicity or something like that. You know, if if if, radio waves can travel, then why not brainwaves? You know? And that happens a lot with people that you're that we're close with in life.
Chris:And, I was close to my grandma, and I knew it, TJ. I mean, I'm sure I knew the moment that that she died. That's my first. That is my first experience that I, you know, I can think of that, where God was in it. And then well, I can remember my journey really starting.
Chris:Yeah.
T.J.:Let's pick up with kind of college and maybe some of those early pullings into ministry. What were those like for you?
Chris:Well, I talked about my grandmother and how much of an impact that she had on me and my grandparents in general that were church planners. And, she said early on, she she told my dad, she said that that he's called to preach. Now I don't have a word you tell. You know, you make a determination that a 5 year old or 6 year old just called the ministry, but she figured it out. She actually wrote letters to me, that my dad gave me later in life, you know, that pointed a lot of things out toward Jesus and toward become you know, becoming a Christian in in the church, the CP church in general.
Chris:But I always say God tricked me into going into the ministry, but that's not necessarily true. But I'm gonna tell you the the journey and how it all started. So I was, you know, played quarterback in high school. You know, was was was an okay quarterback. Had some colleges looking at me, and I ended up at Harding.
Chris:Harding University, which is in Searcy, Arkansas, which is about 45 minutes from Batesville. And so I go to school there. I get there. Man, they got, like, 7 quarterbacks, you know, and and it's just it was wild and it was it was crazy. And Harding's Church of Christ.
Chris:K? Here I am, 6th generation Cumberland Presbyterian, and I go to a a church of Christ school. I didn't know anything then. Differences in denominations and things like that. And so I go there, and I'll I'll be darned if I didn't fall in love with a with a girl from from Ohio that was Church Christ.
Chris:And she had an interesting journey as well. She she ran track. K? So she ran track, and I played football. And I went with her.
Chris:I traveled with her, throughout that one year back to Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio. And she kept telling me about she kept telling me about her her ex boyfriend who was a who's who's an atheist. And so I was like, okay. And, you know, didn't really care at the time, but, you know so he's an atheist. So he doesn't believe in God.
Chris:So we went up there, around Christmas and I so I met this guy, and and it's interesting that she actually started going to church because of his mother. She did not go to church at all, but she started going to church because of his mom. And so she went to the church of Christ up there, and she was accepted the Lord, was baptized, and ended up at a church of Christ school down south. And so when I went up there, we'd go to her church, and then there was her mom and all that. So I end up meeting the boyfriend the ex boyfriend.
Chris:So the ex boyfriend and I, we we hung out as awkward as that is. He took me to that was in Youngstown. It's, you know, it's halfway in between Pittsburgh and, Cleveland. He takes me to a Pittsburgh, penguins game, I think, in in the at that time. Come back spring break, I went up there.
Chris:He took me to a Pittsburgh pirates game. So we become we become friends. So here's the way this all comes to the the story here. So in the summertime, he and I were working together. And we were up on a scaffold and we were painting.
Chris:It was one of his his the houses that his his father owned. And I and I and I was was had gotten a job with them and was painting houses. And we're on the scaffolding, and he turns to me and he said, you're the only person that in in 6 months that has not tried to get me to become a Christian that tells me I'm going to hell that you know? He just said, what makes you different? And I'm a tell you, TJ, I don't remember anything that I told this guy.
Chris:I mean, none nothing. I don't remember anything I said. But 15 minutes later, we jumped down off the scaffolding, and he said, I wanna accept Jesus as my lord and savior. And I didn't know what I was doing. I said, I I I let him in the sinner's prayer.
Chris:You know? And so I I go back to to her house with her family there, and I tell her I said, you know, Danny, he accepted Jesus, and they were like, wow. We we what in the world did you say? I said, I don't know what I said to him, you know, but he's a Christian, and he he he wants to be baptized now. And so come to find out the father, his father, did not go to church either.
Chris:And he comes to me, and he goes, what did you say to my son? And he go I said, I don't know what I said to him that that he needs Jesus or something. You know? And he goes, well, I never in my life ever thought I'd see Danny in church. And so I think, and since Danny did that, I may have to examine myself.
Chris:So come to find out, they both started going to church. Okay? Now here's the here's the here's the story. Here's how it all here's how it all came to an end. So we're driving back to Arkansas, and this is August of 1993.
Chris:K? That was that was, and I ended up in Bethel 2 weeks later in August 93. So we're we're driving down the road. We're somewhere between, Cincinnati and Louisville. And I remember this.
Chris:I turned to her and I said, I think I may be called to the ministry. And she said, well, I'm just gonna tell you this, Chris. I am not going to be a Presbyterian pastor's wife. And I looked at her and I said, well, I never told you I was Church of Christ. And we got into it and we argued and we talked about doctrine and things like this stuff that, I mean, never even thought about before.
Chris:But I told her straight up, I was like, I'm I'm not I'm not church of Christ. I said, I'm I'm Cumberland Presbyterian. And so we we, we got back to Arkansas and we broke up. And that's when I I called Wayne Wood, my my pastor at that time. Allen came later.
Chris:And I said, Wayne, I said I told him what happened. I said, I think I'm called to to the ministry. And he drove me to Bethel, and the rest is history. I mean, I met you met you guys, and that that that started the ministry journey right there.
T.J.:When you entered into Bethel, were you, like, a ministerial candidate or a student? Or
Chris:No. I I was heartbroken that that girl and I broke I'm telling you, TJ, I love that girl. But, I came over there. Jimmy Bird was you know, they introduced me to Jimmy Bird. Says, okay.
Chris:This is gonna be your roommate. And, and Jimmy helped me with that. I I actually did. I did go under the care briefly. And I was a a considered a ministerial student at at Bethel.
Chris:But then we know that, you know, the rock and roll took over afterwards and, the devil got a hold of me and said, hey. You can do this and make music for the rest of your life.
T.J.:Well, Chris, I depending on the conversation, one of the questions that I'll ask occasionally is, what is it about God that keeps you coming back and identifying with Christianity? You have felt the call to the ministry at a early age, but it wasn't until a little bit later in life when you actually, as they say, surrender to the call. So what it what is it? What is it that just drew you then but continues to draw you now to the Christian faith and and your stewardship, your service?
Chris:Well, I, you know, I would say besides the besides the resurrection, which I believe is the main reason that I return, you know, keep returning to God and then returning to Christianity, you know, I'd say what Jesus said in John 1010, you know, the thief comes only to steal, kill, and destroy. But I've came that they may have life and and have it abundantly. So right now, Jesus teaches me how to have life more abundantly, you know, on on this this earth. I mean, that's that's the difference in us and and let's say, you know, like Buddhism. Because let's you know, Buddhism teaches about, Nirvana, which is a way of escaping suffering.
Chris:But, you know, Jesus tells us to embrace that suffering. Jesus teaches how to live in it and with it, you know, and how to have life abundantly inside of it, despite of it.
T.J.:There were times in your life when you when you accepted the call to ministry, and then you put that call over to the side. So what is it that has drawn you where you have finally put both feet in into into ministry, into the word and the sacraments? What was that tipping point for you, Chris? You've obviously had life experiences that could pull you and snap you away and go, look. The life I'm gonna be a Christian, but that ministry thing is not something that I wanna do.
T.J.:It's too hard, too difficult.
Chris:You know, we could say it's when when I was living a life of sin, but when I was living outside of of God, things didn't work out, man.
T.J.:In what way?
Chris:They just didn't work out because I would I would try different things, you know, and and, like, okay. So I was I was playing in a band. Okay? And we go out and we would play we would play these clubs. And I mean, it it was just like it it can get crazy at times.
Chris:And there's people, you know, coming at you and things like that and people giving you stuff and there's drugs and alcohol and there's women involved and it's just it's it can get wild at times. And so there was a there was a point in there where I was like, okay. This is just not working out. There's got to be a whole lot more. And I tried like you said, I mean, I I tried to outrun god, and I couldn't do it.
Chris:And finally, I I I one night, I I I thought I was having a heart attack. Okay? And I went to the I went to the emergency room, and, you know, I told him, you know, I was like, hey. I feel like I'm dying. And so right after that, my pastor at the time, Alan Meinser, came to the hospital.
Chris:And he now and, you know, Alan came to Faith Hopewell when I was in college at Bethel. So he's my pastor for 20 years. And I told him I was like, okay. I'm done running. Like, I I swear this time, I am done with it.
Chris:Because I told him this before. Because you gotta understand, man. I tried to get to that seminary 3 different times. You know? 3 different times.
Chris:From the time you and I were were in school at Bethel until somewhere the the second time was around 30. And then at 39, finally, I I was like, okay. I'm I'm done. So I told Alan, I said, man, I'm I'm done running. He's like, okay.
Chris:And so soon after that, I accepted the call, went before the committee, and, went to seminary.
T.J.:Well, let let me interrupt you for a minute.
Chris:Go ahead.
T.J.:What were you running or why were you running from the ministry?
Chris:Because I knew it was real, and I didn't wanna commit to it. I don't wanna live my life like that. I didn't like I won't say I didn't like the church growing up. I love the church. I just didn't like the way churches were it just, you know, were ran.
Chris:It just seemed weird and different to me. And so I I just I ran from it for for so long just to because I didn't I didn't wanna do it. But I'm but nothing worked out. Right? I mean, really, nothing nothing worked out in my life.
Chris:I tried you know, I was married a couple of times. You know? And that didn't work out. And I would try this job over here, this career. It didn't work out.
Chris:It would fall through. And And somewhere in the back of my mind, I and and I, you know, I knew I was called. Then, you know, Barry Anderson told me, he says, well, you know, the average age of entering seminary student was 42 years old, so at least you got underneath. You you came before the average age, which was, I think, 39 or 40 at the time. What?
T.J.:Well, that that was helpful helpful as you entered into the school.
Chris:Oh, yeah. You know, and early on, Barry, like, they didn't they didn't believe me. You know, when when Jimmy Jimmy Byrd, my roommate at Bethel, he, you know, he goes off to seminary and Billy Fly goes off to seminary. You know, all my friends at the time, they didn't believe me that I was called. And Barry told me that.
Chris:He's like, we just didn't we didn't believe you when you were, like, 22 23 years old. We didn't think but, you know, but I go back to Bethel. Jimmy and I, we're gonna start telling Bethel stories now. But when I think it back on Bethel, right when I I first got there, came from Harding, you know, University, transferred. Jimmy and I went over and we mowed Robert Forrester's, yard one time.
Chris:And he goes, y'all didn't come to Bethel, you know, by accident. You're both called to preach. And that's when I was like, what?
T.J.:I think it was, as an observer looking in. I think it was not really your peers. It was when you, Chris, were were ready, not not the affirmation from your colleagues and future colleagues.
Chris:Right.
T.J.:But let's go back to the question before we leave it behind us. With everything that you've said, what is it about god in identifying with the Christian faith and for that calling into the ministry? One of the things you alluded to was, well, you've tried other things, and they didn't work out too well.
Chris:I go back I mean, I I gotta go back to the to the resurrection that one day, we will be in heaven when we die. That gives me that gives me hope. You know, a lot of times today, we hear people, you know, preaching the kingdom of heaven, which is all about the earth, the earth, the earth. And, yeah, Jesus teaches how to live right here and now abundantly, but I have to have hope, man. I mean, I'm 49 years old.
Chris:I'm getting older. I gotta have a knee replaced coming up. I got a daughter getting married, you know, coming up in January. And, you know, like we said earlier about doubling your life, you know, when you're 10 years old, you could think, well, 10 year in 10 years, I'm gonna be 20. And then at 20, you're saying 20, you know, in 20 years, I'm a be 40.
Chris:But now at at at 50 almost, it's like in 50 years, I'm not gonna be around. You know? So the so the resurrection and going to heaven, give that that gives me hope. That's that's why I keep coming back to Christianity. And that is what I preach, man.
T.J.:Well, let let's take that a step further. So where do you see God working in your life today?
Chris:Well, we we we talked about, the the churches. But personally, you know, in in my life personally, you know, for a long time, and this goes back to probably why I wasn't ready for ministry that I I was I was preoccupied, you know, with with my life, with my needs, and and and how to take care of me. And over time, that switch to, becoming, other person focused. In my ministry, God is currently, you know, teaching me how to be a positive leader. Mhmm.
Chris:And with COVID, you know, last year when that first started happening, COVID comes up, I was negative. Like, I wanted to go off into a hole somewhere or just, you know, be depressed. But now, I mean, I'm I'm I'm positive. I'm I'm a I'm a leader. So, I don't know if that it's answering your question or not.
Chris:But No.
T.J.:It's interesting to see, and feel, the emotional swing, in ourselves and observing them in others, through this pandemic. There probably is a psychological term, the, you know, the pandemic fatigue. I think we all experience it and are experiencing it.
Chris:Yeah. But it's but, I mean, to answer your question, where's god working in my life today? God is teaching me how to be a leader. Not just a preacher anymore. There's a difference in a preacher and a pastor.
Chris:So I'm learning how to be a a pastor, and and my churches are teaching me how to do that. You know? That's what that's the cool thing about seminary. And if there's anybody that ever, you know, listen to this that wants to go to seminary, they only give you just enough to get your foot into the door. And it's up to you and God to take what you've learned and to and to apply that.
Chris:And so I give my congregations, especially Mount Olive early on, for teaching me, for forgiving me. Mistakes I made, you know, like with Gary Gary Barrows of spending way too much time with one person. So they they taught me how to be a a pastor. They've taught me how to be a leader, which is really it's it's god working. You know?
T.J.:I think, for seminary and graduate training, you know, expectations are all over the place as a entering student. But one of the aspects of seminary is it can give you the skills of teaching you how to study.
Chris:And that
T.J.:study that study the scriptures, that studying other individuals' works, I think that that study also applies of interpersonal relationships. So it's not necessarily a home for answers, but it it's more of a hub for sharpening our study skills. And I think that's one of the many things that I took from graduate school, from seminary, is developing those study skills.
Chris:Yes. I am I I believe wholeheartedly a 100% in what the seminary teaches about scholarship, piety, and justice, and how to have, what I learned from that was how to have a balance between those 3. You you have to you have to have scholarship. Yeah. And so I I told a a a new seminary student one time, you know, I I was about to graduate, and they asked me my opinion on the journey and all that.
Chris:And what what have I learned and what can I use? And and I said, well, you know, you're not gonna retain all this, but you're gonna remember a certain book. And so it's important for you to keep all of your books. So you go back and use that as a reference, and you'll say, oh, well, I remember when I studied that. So you go over to your bookshelf and you grab that book.
Chris:And you then then that's that's what I've learned. The the scholarship part of it. That and everything Mitzi Minor taught about the exegetical process and interpreting scripture.
T.J.:Chris, where do you see God working in the world today?
Chris:Wow. Through the least of these, through the poor, those that the kingdom of heaven was was made for. This past Saturday, at Pineville, we went out knocking on doors, and we've never we've we've I've never done anything like that before. That's part of the growing up process that I'm talking about where I believe God's leading me as a as a, as a leader in the church. So we go out and we knock on doors, and and we're, you know, we're not going out to the old school of, hey.
Chris:Do you know Jesus as your lord and savior? If you don't, you're going to hell. No. That that's not the intention of what we did. We were going out knocking on doors and leaving gifts for people gift bags and tell them just, hey.
Chris:You know? There's a church right around the corner. If you guys wanna come, you know, we made it at at 10 AM. And so I I I got to see the the poverty, man, in the world and especially in the in the United States. And I and I've called the rule ministry, and that is a that's that's tough sometimes to see how much how much poverty that we have.
Chris:And so people were just they were gracious to to see us. So, I see God working in the world through in many ways, but especially around here in rural areas through through poor people. We have a blessing box out here, and, man, we can't keep stuff in it.
T.J.:Well, what's a blessing box?
Chris:A blessing box would be, food, non perishable food items that we would that we'll fill up occasionally. Like, we have a food ministry here in the church, and we have earmarked a certain amount of money. And we're we're a part of a food a local food bank, and so we get food from them. And so we will we will put food in that blessing box and say, hey. Anybody that needs it, come get food out of it.
Chris:And, man, it's we can't keep food in it.
T.J.:Is this outside of the church facility?
Chris:It is. It's out on the in the parking lot.
T.J.:And you put food and non perishables and things like that?
Chris:Yes. Yes. And we've had community cookouts before. That's gonna be part of what we do in the future. You know, I came in here let me tell you this.
Chris:When I came into Pineville, I'd taken a church that was split. Okay? And we were just getting it back to where what I thought, you know, people were coming back and, you know, things like that. And then COVID hits. And then people weren't coming anymore.
Chris:You know? Or not not as many people are coming. And so we tried to you know, we get outside out of the box and start thinking, what do we need to do? And so then we we started a a food ministry. And we and so we're just now in the early stages of that.
Chris:So, it's been a blessing, man. It and it's open doors. It's open doors to the community and and partnering and partnering with other churches. Like, there's an assembly of God church here, then they get, like, truckload fulls of food, like milk and you know? I think I saw where Jay Brown, his church had gotten some produce from a truck, and I wondered if that came from the same place out of Missouri.
Chris:We've gotten truckloads like that. And and the churches around here, they partner with us. You know? And so we share food and we we give it away. And people come and get it, man.
Chris:They come and get it.
T.J.:If I bumped into you in the community where you live and I'm not faith connected, what message would you share with me about seeing God in the world in 2021?
Chris:I would tell you that God loves you first and foremost. And I would say and I would tell people you need to be part of a faith community. I I think there's a lot of people in this world today that have given up on church. For whatever reason, I don't know why, but I I would say you need to be a part of a church community somewhere.
T.J.:What benefits is there to be part of a community of faith?
Chris:I think we talked about this the other day, but I mean, when you said it for people to to see you know, we can watch things online, but going to an actual church and seeing people hug each other and love each other is a big deal in this world that we live in today. And I I people need to they need to see that. They need to know. They have questions. I mean, they're the world's crazy right now.
Chris:And so I think the church is gonna be that place hopefully in the future where people go to to try to make sense of the crazy world that we live in.
T.J.:Let's talk about the church that we serve, the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. Chris, where do you see the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination in 5 years? What will it look like?
Chris:Global. It's a global church. I have been down there. I've been I say I I when I say down there, I mean, South America, Central America. And and I I just I love what the Colombians are doing.
Chris:I love what I see in South America and and Central America. My wife is a is a doctor. She's a physician, and we have been to the Cumberland Presbyterian Medical Clinic, and and spent time down there. And I just I love what Lynn Thomas is doing with our with our global churches, and we we need revival, man. If you wanna talk about here in the States, we we need we need revival.
T.J.:What will they look like?
Chris:Well, I don't know if it's gonna look like Kentucky. You know, people's slaying the spirit and people camping out, but it's gonna have to be some type of renewal, and and it starts with prayer. It starts with with prayer warriors. Both both of my congregations have have committed to to prayer every day at noon. So I believe in in in concerted, you know, prayer, to get togetherness of of prayer.
Chris:So we've we're doing that at noon every day. And we just pray that God will, pour out the holy spirit upon our on upon our church. And so that's where it starts.
T.J.:Chris, if you could ask God one thing, one question, and you would get an answer, what would it be?
Chris:Why did not why wasn't I able to sign to a major record deal as a, musician when I was younger? I mean, come on, god. What's up with that? Why why did
T.J.:that happen? Does age matter?
Chris:Yeah. Especially when you're when you gotta have your your knee replaced. You can't dance around on stage anymore.
T.J.:Well, we we can add that to kind of the hopes and dreams in the future of the church. Right?
Chris:Right. Yeah. I would say, why the suffering? Why is there so much suffering in the world?
T.J.:How and how do we how do we address the suffering? That that would be like part b of your question. How do we address that suffering? Wonder what God would say.
Chris:Well, I'm not God, but I would think it would be something on the lines of, you know, we go going back to when we go to heaven one day, that you don't show up a robot, you know, in heaven. I mean, it goes back to Jesus suffered he suffered on the cross. I mean, the suffering's part of is is part of life, but I but why is there there's so much suffering? Maybe it's because we need to be we need to be dependent upon God. You know?
Chris:I've I've that's just that's part of it. That's just part of life. You know? I don't know I don't have a good answer to that, TJ.
T.J.:Yeah. I think there there's internal and external suffering. There's self inflicting suffering and then there's that external suffering that we didn't bring upon ourselves. I think those are question of the ages. Absolutely.
T.J.:I think scholars, biblical scholars, and prophets, and philosophers have grappled with that question. So I think it was a good one, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. What's this all about, God?
Chris:Yeah. The the big question, why are we here? You know?
T.J.:Chris, as a busy man as you are, how can we continue to follow you on your faith journey? Where can we find you?
Chris:You can find me you can find me at Mount Olive preaching on Sunday mornings if you wanna drive there. If you like to fish, fish for trout, you could come to to Mount Olive. That church is the oldest Cumberland Presbyterian Church West of the Mississippi River. It was founded in 1826. We are coming up on 200 years.
Chris:You could find me there, but I know where you're going with this. And you oh, if you could find me there at 11:15 or 11 we're try we're changing the time up because Pineville is now 10 AM. So you can find me in Pineville, Arkansas, Pineville CP Church at Mount Olive. But, yes, you can find me online, with, through Facebook. We have Facebook page.
Chris:We are building websites right now at, pinevillecpc, dot com. You can find me there, metolivecpc.com, but mainly on on Facebook. Man, we do everything on Facebook, you know. You're not on Facebook, TJ. Why?
Chris:You're on Instagram.
T.J.:Because I value, the interpersonal relationships. I think it's the there's better ways to communicate and converse. Social media is not there.
Chris:I told I get that. I understand that.
T.J.:Chris, I appreciate you sharing, taking me on this journey. We've hit some highs. We've hit some lows.
Chris:Yes, sir.
T.J.:And I appreciate you sharing and being vulnerable.
Chris:I appreciate what you do. I appreciate what you're doing for the church and how you're doing it and connecting everyone. I think that's important today for for people to see and hear other people's faith journeys.
T.J.:Well, thank you, Chris. And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with us on our next journey down Cumberland Road.
