Cumberland Road

Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. This is the Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. There has probably been a time when you have experienced the feelings of being left out or forgotten. The last year and a half has certainly enhanced periods of isolation and loneliness. Today's guest, Reverend Christopher Martin, shows how his ministry has changed to focus on those within the church and the community to show one another that we are not forgotten and that the presence of God is constant in the midst of turmoil. Reverend Christopher Martin is a minister in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America. He is a senior minister of Robeson Chapel in Alcoa, Tennessee. He is also the stated clerk of Tennessee Synod. And in Hawassi Presbytery, he serves as vice moderator and co youth minister. Join me on this new journey down Cumberland Road with Reverend Christopher Martin.

Chris Martin, thank you for joining me on the podcast. Introduce yourself.

Alright. Well, thanks for having me. I am Chris Martin. Am an ordained minister in the CPCA. I was ordained in 2012 and I am married to my lovely wife Stephanie Martin.

We've been married for nine years going on 10 and Lord willing we will be celebrating that tenth year anniversary this October.

All right, congratulations.

Thank you, thank you. We live in Sweetwater, Tennessee. I am pastoring at Robison Chapel, Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America. I hold two different positions in our Hawassi Presbytery. I'm currently the vice moderator and co youth minister.

And then in the Tennessee Synod, I am the stated clerk.

Right. Now Stephanie, your wife, is she an ordained minister as well?

Yes, she is an ordained minister. She's the associate pastor at Robinson Chapel, Chapel, and she currently is the stated clerk of the Hawassi Presbytery.

Wow. So you guys are quite a team, not only a clergy couple, but also very much active in in the Presbyterian and the Senate that you're a part of.

Yes.

So, Chris, share with with our listeners, as stated clerk of Tennessee Senate of the CPCA, talk about what that's like, what that looks like, because there's a difference between senate work and activity in the two sister denominations.

Right. So for us, we have a annual synod meeting. So it'll be in October and we will come together that Thursday evening. So we'll do a worship service. We'll have communion at the end of that worship service.

And then that morning of Friday we'll actually start off with another devotional and that will typically be a combined service with our missionaries and then after that joint service, that joint devotional, they'll go off to do their business and then we'll do our morning business meeting. We'll go into a lunch come back and do any more business and do any breakouts for committee work. Then we'll do a missionary night in white typically is the Friday evening service and then that Saturday morning we'll do another devotional service and finish any unfinished business, have committee reports, and then have a lunch before everyone departs and goes to their different places. So it's definitely a welcoming warm time for us to come together. We have three presbyteries that come together in the Tennessee Synod.

We have Hawassi Presbytery in East Tennessee. We have Elk River Presbytery in Middle Tennessee, and then we have New Hopewell in West Tennessee. And it's definitely been a blessing to be a part of it, to be a minister, to be able to travel. We typically will have two synods in one of the presbyteries. So we'll have two in New Hopewell, then we'll go to Hobossey, then we'll go to Elk River.

And it's been one of those things where it's something I look forward to every year because I'm meeting the ministers, the elders, the different people of the different presbyteries and different congregations. I haven't seen them in a year so it's similar to like a family reunion and we get to worship together, we get to eat together, we get to joke and talk and catch up and see the things that God's been doing in our lives and it's definitely something I've appreciated being a younger minister. I'm currently 35 going on 36 and having those mentors, having those people that pour into me and encourage me to keep going because they've seen a lot of things. They've experienced a lot of things in their journeys And so having that encouragement is definitely something I've enjoyed having, being a part of not just Hawassi Presbytery, but then having a membership and being a part of the Tennessee Synod as well.

Synod is based on representation. So every minister in every congregation is expected to have representation at the synod meeting. And for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, the sister denomination, it's typically delegated. And we were talking before we started recording. I didn't know that.

And so there was a couple of years where I wasn't attending Tennessee Synod because I was just operating under what what I was accustomed to. Well, my time will come around, and it was a reverend doctor Stan Wood. He was like, you know, you haven't been showing up to synod meeting. Why is that? I didn't realize that I was expected to be there with all the other ministers.

I I find it enriching and also that we're doing the committee work together. It's not done ahead of time. You know, their committee work is done while we're together in those two or three days.

Yes, I definitely think that's helpful that all the different congregations can have their representatives there at the same time as the work is being done. So it also helps us with communicating and getting the word back that, hey, this is what the Senate's doing. This is what the Senate's working on and having that collaboration. It's not that we did all of our work and now we're waiting this x amount of time to report. No, we're actually going to do the work and then if we've got questions, you've got other ministers, you've got other elders, you've got past moderators, past data clerks that can still assist us and that's also a benefit of having all the different ministers and all the different congregation representatives being there at that same time.

And you know, we do miss those that don't make the synod meeting. Sometimes people have different obligations and things come up and we do understand that, but you are missed when you're not there.

Yeah. You know, a lot of our ministers are bi vocational. And, you know, you're having to take off Thursday and Friday or maybe three days just just to be able to ascend or to attend synod, and and that is challenging. And I've forgotten, Chris, the Women's Missionary Society or auxiliary also meets synod wise at the same time. So I yeah.

I've forgotten about that. It's been a little while since we've had a senate meeting.

It is.

But yeah. So it really is I mean, the best way that I can kinda describe it, it's kinda like a smaller version of general assembly.

Yes. Definitely would I would consider that as well. It's definitely a fun time. We do take things lighthearted when we're doing things outside of the services, outside of the meetings. You know, you'll see people joking around talking.

You'll see people drinking coffee in the mornings. You'll see people drinking on some tea or some water in the afternoon and just catching up, just telling each other about how their families are. For the older ones, how their grandchildren and great grandchildren, showing pictures and just having a time, you know, fellowship and being able to enjoy this community that God's blessed us to be a part of.

And how long have you been state of clerk?

So state of clerk, I started I wanna say it was around 2016. So I'd been engrossing clerk for several years before that. So around 2013, I think, was when I became engrossing clerk. Maybe 2012. '20 '12, '20 '13.

And so then after about three to four years, I became state of clerk.

So it wasn't long after your ordination. Boom. You were just put to work.

Yes. Yes. It was it was one of those really quick turnarounds where it was get ordained spring twenty twelve, and then things started changing once fall twenty twelve happened. And then definitely, as Tom kept going, it was like, okay. So we're looking for someone for this position.

We're looking for someone for this position, and it's one of those where I want to do my part to help build the kingdom of God. So if it's not out of reason, then I definitely want to say yes. And I've learned that there will be times to say no, and then there will be times to say yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That a a rewarding and wonderful role to to be able to serve in the church as the state clerk. You get to know a lot of people, and that's how we met.

Yes. Yes. It is.

So I wanted to ask you, Chris. I like to ask each guest this. Can can you share a meaningful experience with God? And that can be something that that happened yesterday or something in the past, but just a meaningful experience with God that you would like to share.

Well, I was thinking of a conversation during the pandemic, so this would have been last year, and making different decisions as a pastor and being vice moderator, being a part of those decisions for the presbytery, just having a conversation with God about what in the world do I do as a pastor, as a stated clerk, a vice moderator, co youth minister, like all these different things where I'm trying to serve different people, different groups of people, and not being able to physically be in the same rooms or physically be in their presence because we're trying to do our part to be compassionate and show that love where some people were dealing with illnesses, especially early on some people were testing positive for the virus. So just what in the world God do I do? And it's just been the answer has consistently been still show love. So it's been on me, on my mind, on my heart to continue to show love and to express it, to find ways to express that love, whether it's the phone calls, whether it's through letters. I've been doing letters as the pastor because I do have a congregation that's not very tech savvy.

They're not on YouTube. They're not doing things on Facebook. So I've been writing out the message on Sunday and writing out a Bible study message and then I'll post it on Facebook, but then I'm also delivering the letter so they have it. They physically have it with them. Just doing things to show them, hey, you're not forgotten.

I know that we're not together. We're not in the building worshiping. We're not in the building doing Bible study. But hey, I still care about you. I'm still visiting those and seeing them sometimes outside their house and waving and sometimes being masked up and inside the house saying, Hey, how you been?

And praying with them or offering them communion for those that aren't able to come out for our first Sunday communion service in the parking lot. That's where I've been growing in faith with even though the pandemic is still affecting us in different ways, it's still not gonna stop me from showing love. That God still expects me to show love.

That really is the million dollar question, I think, as leaders in the church of how do we share the good news of Jesus Christ when we are having to change the ways and the forms that we communicate with with one another. And and we're always kinda learning on the go, and I find that exciting but also jarring as well because it it's a stretch. And I think a lot of our ministers and a lot of our church leaders can overdo it by by doing not only maybe the preparation for worship and leadership in worship, but also adding on these different, you know, putting things in the mail or on Facebook or on a website. And then even the the next tier of YouTube and, you know, live viewings and things like that. And I think that's where we kind of can rely on one another and share those responsibilities.

And and we're also reaching different people, I think, through these as well and and and deepening some relationships. But, yeah, that it Chris, that's the that was that would be the the question for church leaders, and we're still we're still trying to work through it.

Yes, we are. And it is a growing process because part of the journey that I'm on is finding those new things to experiment with, those things to figure out how to build up God's kingdom, how to continue to show love. And so the things that I was doing in 2020, some of those things I may need to modify, may need to adjust now that it's 2021. And going forward, I need to find those areas and also be in contact with people that can assist because it shouldn't always be a one person show. And unfortunately, the pastor sometimes gets burdened with being that person that, Oh, you're supposed to do 10 things.

You're gifted so you can do 10 things. It's like, Okay, God does call people to do multiple things, but sometimes he allows opportunities for other people to use their gifts. And so being in contact with people that may can be more on the social media side or maybe they're better at doing videos and doing the things on YouTube and other video sharing platforms, and just finding those areas of opportunities, even in the midst of a pandemic, to continue to do what God says for us to do.

Right. What may take you or I, you know, a couple hours to upload a video may take a 15, 18 year old three minutes. You know? True.

Very true.

So relying on those that have those gifts and those skills, that's part of the community of faith, covenant community, I think.

Yes, everybody has a talent, everybody has an assignment, so we should allow them to flourish in whatever gifts they have and whatever assignment that they've been given. Mhmm. And maybe it's we have to step back and say, okay. Maybe I wasn't the one assigned this task because it does take me two hours. And maybe I should say, hey, have you ever done this?

Because I think you should be doing this. I think you'll be better suited to do this than I am. And this just gives someone that opportunity, that chance, and maybe that will help them then them to grow in their ministry.

Chris, earlier, you were talking about expressing and sharing the love of god with with others and and what that look like, the challenges for 2020 and even the 2021. When have you been the recipient of God's love in your life?

Definitely early on, I will say coming to Christ at a young age, it was one of those things where being an only child, loneliness was something that I dealt with. Having God's word call out to me about, I stand at your heart's door and I knock, and if you answer I'll come in and eat with you. That was the scripture that really touched me and led me to my relationship with God through Jesus. And Him showing me a long childhood journey of growing up, having different experiences, that He's still with me. That through the ups and downs, through the moments where I've got a lot of friends, the moments where I didn't have a lot of friends, the moments where different things were going on in my family, God was the constant, that He was still there, He was still loving me, that He was still providing my needs, that He brought Stephanie and I together and Stephanie was way in New Jersey at the time that we got to know each other through her dad who I was taking classes with to get licensed and ordained.

And so God truly does know all the plans He has for me. He does have all my days written down and I can't thank Him enough for all the things, not just Stephanie, although she's been a huge blessing in my life, that there's so many smaller things that I take for granted because I just can't count them all. I can't number all the ways he showed me love. I'm glad though that he keeps showing me love even though I can't number all the ways and I forget to thank him from time to time, but I'm glad that he keeps showing me love.

Yeah. I think that's something that we can express even more that the the there are times that we are at a loss for words in terms of describing God's love and the impact that it has in our lives. But there are also times when we do fail to acknowledge and, you know, we take for granted as as you said. But how how do you take that love, Chris, and what are some other ways where you pour it out for others? What does that look like in your ministry now?

So I know one thing other than doing our services differently, being a part of the community in Alcoa, just trying to show that support to the members of that community. So I know in 2020, we were able, instead of doing boxes, food boxes was normally an annual thing that we would do at Robison Chapel and we were saying well it's a pandemic we don't want people going out getting all the different items for the box because some people aren't comfortable going out grocery shopping and being in crowds things like that so we were saying well what about food cards from a different grocery store because we had always had this thought how many of the individuals are gonna really cook all those different items that we were putting in those food boxes because sometimes it was a ham, sometimes I think we may have used a turkey, but then we were doing the canned goods and the dry goods. I was like, yeah, let's go for it. And so we did the food cards from the different grocery stores. And so that went really well around Thanksgiving.

So we were blessed to be able to do it again around Christmas. And so then we were able to give gifts to the teachers that were working at one of the local schools to show appreciation for them because of all they were doing and dealing with teaching their different students during the pandemic. And so it's just one of those things of trying to give support and encouragement to those in our community in different ways because even though we're a smaller congregation, we do come together and we're able to have those acts of kindness, those expressions of love, and we don't know always how that's going to affect those individuals that do receive it or their family members or their loved ones or their friends but as long as God has blessed us we want to continue to be a blessing to others and to show that hey you're not forgotten that the same God that loves us that is still present in our lives during the ups and downs he still loves you and he still wants to be there if you don't have that relationship with him he wants you to have that And for those that do have that relationship, continue to trust in him.

We have received some thank you cards. We've received some communications back that that helped them. That in those moments during this pandemic, whether it was the gift card, it was an expression just showing up to say hello, to thank you, calling them, that they said that meant a lot, that it was helpful to hear our voice or it was helpful to see that gift that we gave them. So I just want to continue to do those things to the best of my ability and our congregation's ability that we're gonna do those things.

Chris, you're right. What an isolating time it has been for for us as as humanity. And those little signatures, those little efforts can go a long long way. Well, Chris, who are some folks that have had a great impact in deepening your love for Christ and and deepening your faith and helped you in your ministry?

So I know early on as a child, it would be my grandparents, my mom, and my dad. My grandparents, my grandma was a member at Northpointe Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America. My mom also was a member there. And so I was definitely with them. My grandpa, he was a Baptist minister when I was really young and then as I grew up, he actually joined and became a Cumberland Presbyterian minister and started serving at Northpoint on when I was about a teenager fixing to graduate high school.

That was, you know, as he was getting older he wanted to be somewhere closer and so he went with Northpoint because it's right up the road. My dad's grandpa or my dad's dad, he's a Baptist deacon and he was a founder at one of the churches over in Clarksville. So they definitely had an impact on me growing up, showing me that love showing me that encouragement reminding me of things that Jesus taught making sure that I wasn't going too far out of line sometimes making sure that I was loved but that they didn't spoil me by sparing the rod, which thankfully I didn't have too many whoopings growing up. And then I know as an adult it's been those that I've been blessed to have in my life. I know pastor Ivy Smith was the pastor that I was underneath when I first accepted the call.

And he gave me an opportunity to speak because I had ran from that call to go into ministry because when I was younger people saw it in me before I saw it and I had the mindset of well I'm not called because that's something God does. That's not something people do. And so I'm not going to listen to you because you don't know what you're talking about. And that was arrogant. But I was younger.

I was a teenager at the time and God just worked with me while I was in college. Then Pastor Smith gave me this opportunity to speak. And after I spoke, God still dealt with me for a while. It took another two months for me to actually accept the call and that would have been that January, the last Sunday January 2010 I accepted the call and then started the classes with Reverend Doctor. Harry Johnson.

He was teaching the class for us for Hawassi Presbytery at the time and he's been very influential. Not only did he teach me, he then taught Stephanie, he taught my father-in-law Reverend Edmund Cox. He's taught my cousin Reverend Perry Jackson. He officiated my wedding with Stephanie and he's definitely been a blessing in my life. And then coming into the synod, Reverend Doctor.

Stan Wood has been very influential. He's definitely helped show me and helped encourage me to stay on the path to continue the faith, to continue to believe in our community as Cumberland Presbyterians. He's seen lots of different things and he actually used to be at North Point, so he knew my mom and he knew my dad. And so that was also one of those things that makes it so great to be a part of this community is that you have so many connections with people. Even when we move away, we still may cross paths.

And so that was an awesome way to connect the dots with my mom's past pastor was now the moderator and I was working at the time as a grossing clerk and now I'm serving as the stated clerk. So it's definitely great to have those men and women that have showed me what it means to be a servant and to be able to serve Christ above all else. In different times, in different situations, I can look at their lives, I can look at their examples and say that, yes, I've been blessed that God gave me them as examples that I can go to. Ones that are still living and those that have passed, I can still look back at all that they taught while they were living and say, yeah, they've definitely helped.

And, you know, being clergy couple, you and Stephanie, and my wife is also a minister as well, that that adds to the dynamic of of being being impacted, but there's something about being in the household. And, you know, you can speak in code or church speak, and and your partner, your spouse is like, yeah, know exactly what you're not having to, like, explain how difficult, I don't know, a session meeting can be or or getting minutes from a presbytery or a congregation. I mean, those things like that. It's a it's kind of a shared shared joys and shared struggles and frustrations. Is it like that for you, you and Stephanie, Chris?

Yes. It's definitely been a time of we can look at each other sometimes after a meeting and see how it went. Stephanie, she has served as the state clerk of Hawassi Presbyteries since 2013. And so she's been in the clerk position longer than I have. And so she's got different experiences than I have.

And so I'll look at her and she'll give me the look and I'll I'll sort of be like, okay. Because sometimes it's it's been night and day sometimes for presbytery meetings and synod meetings. Mhmm. And so sometimes she'll say, man, y'all have it easy at synod. And then I'm like, have you forgotten when synod did all of our overhaul of standing rules and that drug on and on because it was so much we were going through?

Then she's like, oh, yeah. And so we have those moments where we can laugh, we can joke about who's been having the more busy or tougher time at Clerk. But it's an encouraging thing to have someone that not only has those experiences with you, but prays for you, prays with you.

Right. Right.

Someone that can always call your bluff sometimes. Because sometimes I like to use the word, I'm alright. And so she doesn't always accept. When I say I'm alright, she wants to go deeper, which I do need my spouse. I need Stephanie to be that person that's not gonna just accept it.

I need her to challenge me sometimes. But then I'm also the one that challenges her and I'm like, did you ask God about that? Because she'll ask me and I can give her my opinion, but I want her to ask God first and then ask me second. And sometimes I think I annoy her, but it's one of those good annoyances where it's like, yeah, I'm your husband, but you still need to ask God. So ask God first and then see what he says, and then I'll give you my opinion.

So it's been it's been a good give and take.

Yeah. It it it is. It's a weird dance because you have a shared ministry, you know, because the calling is very, very similar. And Mhmm. The ministry, the day to day ministry may vary and look different, but it you have that shared ministry, but you also have a separate ministry as well.

And so it's a for us, it's it's a kind of a weird dance, you know, of of sometimes you're you're upfront, and then other times you are kind of in the corner in the shadow. So you share it, and then you you kind of play off of each other's gifts. And I've seen clergy couples do it really, really well. And I admire those and observe those that are able to to do that. But it is a dance.

Yes, it definitely has been eye opening how much we do dance at our different courts because Stephanie has been taking the lead more often than I have because of her stated clerk position. And so even as vice moderator, I get to hang back because the moderator gets to do more. And so it's her show and then it's the moderator show when I'm hanging back for support and encouragement. And then when it comes time for senate, I'm more in those more in the spotlight, more doing things because I'm the state clerk then and she gets to hang back and see the things that I'm doing and the way that I'm interacting with the moderator. It's definitely a give and take, you know, take the lead, give her the lead and allow her to shine because she does have gifts that God's given her and she does really well.

And so I want to encourage her. I want to be that supportive husband and that supportive pastor that continues to show her love by saying, Hey, you know how to do this. You've got this. You've been doing this. God has been blessing you as you're doing your different ministry.

And she feels the same, and she's been doing the same for me in my different positions and different ways that I've been called to serve.

Mhmm. Yeah. And I know what you mean about being called out. I don't think that has anything to do with ministry. It's just it has that level of, yeah, that wasn't your best work.

Or

Oh, yeah.

Or, yeah, why are you worrying about that? Let it go.

Yep. That's true.

Yeah. Chris, where do you see God working in the world today? We've we've alluded to the pandemic, but obviously, the world keeps spinning and rotating and and we're hanging on. Where do you see God in the midst of all this?

I honestly think we are seeing the beginnings of what Jesus predicted, what Jesus prophesied about is He is coming back. So I really think we're at a time in history that we need to look and say is there any other time where the Bible has been translated, the good news has been translated in as many different languages so that the word, the good news has been spread to every single continent and almost every single spoken language can have that access to hear the good news. We're very close. There's almost no spoken language that can truly say, Oh, we know this Jesus. We haven't heard this good news you speak of.

We're very close to having that translation, not just that, but even with the different natural disasters, the different wars, rumors of wars, nation against nation, kingdom against kingdom, we see all the different conflicts that are going on and that's things that are supposed to happen. We see the things going on with Israel that it's still conflict in Israel. And so I'm still waiting, still looking forward to when Jesus comes back. And I hope that people are taking this pandemic as one of those other things to say, Hey, it isn't a great thing for this virus to be negatively affecting so many people, but at the same time it's another sign on that road to Jesus coming back because it is affecting so many people. So many people have now got a shared experience with people from across the world that they may not have had that shared experience before, but now we can say, Oh yeah, there's a world experience.

COVID-nineteen has affected the world. Go out and tell them about the good news of Jesus Christ because Jesus is the answer. That if we have our faith in Jesus that yes, some Christians they did catch the virus and they did pass from having the virus, but guess what? They will have life again. They will have that everlasting life with Jesus.

And that's the hope. That's the good news of the message is that death isn't the end. That there's life after death and that life comes through that faith in Jesus Christ and we now have a tool that we didn't have before. We have that common experience that says, yes, tragedy does happen. More tragedies will happen.

More deaths will happen, but death isn't the end. And the good news is it doesn't have to be death and then everlasting punishment. It can be death and then you have your everlasting life with Jesus that you'll get your rewards that Jesus says, Hey, you get your reward. And I'm hoping and praying that more people will have the opportunity to share their faith, share their good news, share the journey that they've been on with this pandemic because so many people need to hear the good news. Because if we look to just the news channels wherever you go to see the different daily news or weekly news or if you go online or you read a paper or any type of publication, they're trying to just sell news.

They're trying to sell a certain story or they're trying to sell a certain angle but if you share your testimony, you share what God's been doing that's not any other angle but building up the kingdom of God. That's no other angle but showing love for a God that loves us, that hasn't stopped loving us, and has showed His love to us through his grace and mercy because that's the only thing that's kept us during this pandemic.

Yeah. It's an expression. It's an offering. And how it's received or when it's received isn't necessarily in our in our hands, but as disciples of Christ, we we are called upon to express the love that you've been talking about, express the good news, and and offer the good news in the best ways that we know how. So knowing that and talking about that, what ideas and hopes do you have for the church that we are a part of?

Well, I'm hoping that we go not backwards, but looking back to see that families are hurting. And so many families have been negatively affected that we need to pour into our families. We need to show that love in our families so that our families are strengthened and our families can then share that good news, share that love with other families, and that the community will then be stronger and better because a shared conflict or a shared tragedy affects the different people differently because we're all individuals, but we still can grow together. We can have that be a starting place of new relationships or it may be that that's the place where reconciliation happens, where all these different things in our past with our families, our different congregations, maybe there's been some divides and we need to take the time to build bridges that we wouldn't have been able to build except for now that there's this pandemic that has affected all of us. It now gives us an excuse or an opportunity to say, Hey, I need to build this bridge because tomorrow really isn't promised because I've seen so many people that were here before the pandemic that they're not here with me anymore.

And that may be the wake up call that we need to say, Hey families, you are important. God cares about families. God cares about moms and dads, husbands and wives. He cares about the different aunts and uncles, the cousins. He cares about the children that are young.

He cares about the older adults as they're getting closer and closer to their time to pass from this earth. He cares about them. And so I'm hoping that we take that lead, that it's not that we're looking to these outside organizations, which I'm glad there are organizations that do help and support our different families, but I'm hoping the church will look to see that, hey, that's something we need to do. That to the best of our ability, we need to be the ones that's leading that charge.

Chris, do you think that works best, the building of the bridges and reaching out to the families, does that work best at at the local level for, like, a local congregation, the church? Or do you think it works better, you know, like, our own denomination that, you know, is different judicatories? Do you think it works best at the top, at the General Assembly level?

I think it's something that I look to Jesus as our best role model. And while He was on earth, He taught that he's one with the father, that they have that connection but then also he wants that connection with all of us. And so I think we at the lower levels at the congregation, we have to come together. But we also need our general assembly to be on that same page. They need to be able to say, we support this.

This is going to help build up the kingdom of God. We support it. And for our congregations that are in a different situation and may need that extra assistance, that's where I think a general assembly is great to have because then they can pour into that congregation and say, Hey, we noticed this is an area that you're wanting help in. Here's some help. We have more resources.

We're the parent body. We have access. We have connections. We have a network. We have different opportunities and things that we can then provide for you and then help you to do what God's planted you in that community to do.

So I want to say that it is more on the local level, but the parent body has their part to play. It's not always going to be a trickle down from the parent body, but I do think they have to be actively saying, Hey, we support you. We encourage this. This is something that's going to build up the kingdom of God. We want you to stay connected.

We want you to stay fruitful and that's one way to be fruitful is to stay connected to the true source which is Jesus. So we're going to do everything in our power to help you stay connected to Jesus and to do the things that are going to be fruitful in his eyes because for us we're still trying and being dependent on this is what Jesus did so let's do the things that Jesus did and changing with the times because in 2021 it's gonna look a little bit different to be fruitful than it did in 2020, '20 '19, '20 '18, '20 '17. So we gotta do the things that are gonna be fruitful in 2021 because that's where we are now.

Yeah. Ain't it pretty exciting to know that we have the opportunity in many ways to free ourselves from the past and focus on the present and what the future can look like? Scary, but it's very freeing at the same time. I think we have an opportunity at the local level, all the levels of the church regardless of denomination to really be the people that we're called to be. And that has some failings and fallings, but that also brings us to the fullness, I think, as human beings that we're called to be in the eyes of God through Jesus Christ.

It's just what's

going on. Really good opportunity.

Yeah. Which one are we going to choose is the question, I think, for us.

I'm hoping we choose to step out, to do those things, to take the challenge and you know take the good and the bad because there will be growing pains. And to accept that hey growth does have some pain involved. Being fruitful, Jesus said God the Father will prune so that you're even more fruitful. So to look forward to it, expect it, expect that when you're fruitful there will be some pruning that is done so that more fruit is produced.

And you opened my eyes of, you know, looking at the pandemic as a universal shared experience. And what can we draw from that? I hadn't thought of it in that way before because you can look at it in a negative way, but you can also look at it. And you looked at it in a positive way. You've given me something to think about.

I appreciate that. That is a universal shared experience.

You're welcome. I think that's part of that conversation with God is how do I handle and how do I take what this experience has been and then use it to build up your kingdom? And that was another answer that he gave was, hey, you have an opportunity now because all these different people, it doesn't matter your area code, it doesn't matter what your phone number starts with, You've got an experience that someone else has. It may have a few different details, but the bigger picture is, hey, we've lived through this. You've lived through it.

I've lived through it. How do we now relate to God going through this?

Excellent question. So, Chris, how can we continue to follow you on your faith journey?

So currently, I am on Facebook. I am under Christopher Martin, and then Robison Chapel also has a Facebook page.

Okay.

Robison Chapel, and I wanna say it's CPCA. So you can find me on Facebook and just find out the different things going on.

Yeah. Because you are a busy man serving the church on many different levels.

Yes.

Chris, I appreciate you. I appreciate your time that you've shared with me, and I look forward to sharing our conversation with any of those who are willing to listen to the podcast.

Yes. I'm definitely grateful for this opportunity. Thank you.

Alright. And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with us on our next journey down Cumberland Road.