Dusty Taylor - Land Surveying, Changing Congregations, And Church Technology
You're listening to The Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. The following is the faith journey of Dusty Taylor. Dusty is a member of the Russellville First Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Arkansas. Dusty's vocation is a land surveyor, and his work takes him around Arkansas and sometimes Texas. Dusty is also the IT and communications director for Arkansas Presbytery. His role includes website building, virtual meetings, historical research, social media, and local church tech support. You can check out some of his work atarpcpc.org. Enjoy this faith conversation with Dusty Taylor.
T.J.:Dusty, you make a living off of being a land surveyor. I've always been intrigued by that role. I wanna say I've had another guest that, a past guest who did that as well or that was a previous career for that person. So tell me the life of a land surveyor and, what that entails.
Dusty:Well, thank you for letting me be on here, by the way. A land surveyor is someone who they have to lock outdoors. If they don't, they're in trouble. But, they experience God's wilderness, and they have to locate someone's boundary property or, construction wise. There's different aspects of it.
Dusty:You would be walking, locating someone's property. You might see a deer. I don't know.
T.J.:Well, I guess my first question would be is, do you have to know a lot of math?
Dusty:You do have to know math. Trigonometry.
T.J.:Alright.
Dusty:Or geometry. And, if you don't know that, you might as well just be the helper because you'll be in trouble. But a land surveyor, the world is based off surveyors. I don't when I was in school, I always told us, the it's probably the oldest profession because it started in your or North Africa has been brain dead, Egypt. They surveyed the Nile River for the farmlands and stuff to base property.
Dusty:And I was like, well, that's cool. I didn't know that, you know, that was something new for me, but the it all is like the age of God. It's like based way back so far. You don't even know. But if we didn't have it, people would fight over whose property was what, and you wouldn't know how to, where to put the bridge to go across the Mississippi river or where to put the beams that has to be out there for the support, the pillars.
Dusty:There's a picture when I was in school that going across somewhere in Louisiana, that if this surveyor was messed up, this surveyor here on the other side of the river would have went straight, like you're supposed to. And the there would be error in the in the in the math. The you wouldn't meet in the middle like you're supposed to.
T.J.:Oh, in terms of, like, building a bridge?
Dusty:So the right lane would be over there in the, next to the left lane coming from the opposite side.
T.J.:Wow. So it takes a little bit of collaboration as well. When you go out for land surveying for your job, do you always go out with a partner or are you out there by yourself? How does that work?
Dusty:We always have a 2 man crew. Now sometimes we have 1 man crews, depending on
T.J.:the on
Dusty:the size of the job and what's being done, but and a lot of our stuff now is more progressed into GPS instead of doing, what we call old school in total stations.
T.J.:Where do you get, like I guess you have to start with old charts, right, and old maps. Are those at the courthouse, do they, do you keep them on file in the land surveying office? I don't know how this works, but like I said, I'm pretty intrigued by it.
Dusty:Well, Arkansas, several years ago, they've made it to where they now have it online, and you have to register your survey through the state. But most surveys are done are done through the court houses still.
T.J.:Okay.
Dusty:They had to be done to the courthouse local level for you for someone else to come in, because public knowledge to come and look at it and base another survey off of it later on for adjoining property.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Dusty:And it's always senior rights, so Hoover is the oldest pretty much. You have to base off theirs.
T.J.:Okay. So in your case, you know, in Arkansas as well as in many states, You know, there's been surveys, so when you do a survey, is it typically something new where you're dividing property or does your role also include where you're trying to find the old boundaries to confirm old surveys? I don't know if that made any sense or not, but I'm sure you have to confirm old surveys if you're going to divide a piece of property.
Dusty:Yes.
T.J.:But do you ever have a call to where people can't find their old boundaries and they just wanna know where they are?
Dusty:All the time. Or they've never had a survey before.
T.J.:Okay.
Dusty:Which they have to go off legal descriptions that would you'd have to figure out where another survey may have happened or old evidence to put it in place.
T.J.:So which one becomes more handy? Is it the pictorial survey or is it the written aspect that actually includes like the degrees and and, you know, the the coordinates? Is one more important or does one supersede the other? How does that work?
Dusty:A plat, I guess, is what you're trying to say while I go with pitcher Yeah. Which is a plat, are usually done. So for visual, but most everything is done by word.
T.J.:Okay. Alright.
Dusty:And in the courthouse, you're gonna find the deeds and stuff, which is a bit of survey with it'd be all, like, a paragraph instead of a picture, but someone will have a picture or the plat with it for visual.
T.J.:What do you enjoy about land surveying? What what attracted you to this field?
Dusty:Well, I was originally gonna be an architect, but that didn't happen because I wasn't smart enough. So that
T.J.:that's even more math. Right?
Dusty:More math. But it was outside, and my my counselor in high school was, like, yeah, this is probably up your alley. And so I did it, and I stuck with it.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Dusty:And it is. It's more outside stuff that I like to do, and I like to see and venture and see what God has created.
T.J.:Right. Your work, does it take you all over the state or are you kind of confined in a certain geographical area?
Dusty:When I first got hired on, 11 years ago, 12 years ago, I was in Texas. So I traveled to Texas for 10 years. And then 2 years ago, I got moved to the office. So I've been in the office enjoying climate control, And I would travel to Texas a lot. Mhmm.
T.J.:When, excuse me, when, a land surveyor so you have a degree, does that degree, that certification, does it depend upon various states or one certification will work across the the lower 48?
Dusty:You, start with your local education and get your local degree, and we always go off and get another license in other states. So you have to each state's got different or different, laws and bylaws to go with. Mhmm. So you'd have to study their course and then take a test with them to get your license there.
T.J.:When you're out in not the climate controlled environment that you're currently in, but you're out into the field, how how do you feel connected to God? You alluded to that, and I'm putting words in your mouth, but, nature and and God. So let's dive a little bit deeper into that. What is it about being outdoors that you feel the presence of God?
Dusty:It's do you wanna get church camp, I guess? You you're out there. You can hear what God's created. You it's always a place where y'all can go if I need to. It's peace.
Dusty:It's away from folks. I can meditate if I need to, and it's it's always drawn to me to that that, I can I look at something like, well, God made that? This is something that God created that it I don't know. It's it's a feeling. I don't know.
Dusty:I don't know how to explain that.
T.J.:There is something. There's like a serenity to it because it it's you and and you're right. Nature is surrounding all around you. The trees weren't made by people. The tall grass that you're standing in.
T.J.:The poison oak and ivy that's rubbing against your hands. You know. And the insects and the deer and the birds and and the sounds and the breeze, all those different things are beyond us. You know, it's kind of beyond my fathoming in terms of I can experience it, but it's really hard for me to articulate. And I I I think that people of faith contribute those aspects to the creator.
Dusty:And when you're you're sitting there and it's quiet and you hear what's going on, like, the sound of water running, it's soothing. It's I don't have to worry about anything other than a bear coming, And sometimes you're like, well, why did God create that? Or like a thorn bush.
T.J.:Right. Well, before we leave the the land surveying aspect of your life, do you have any interesting or funny or frightening experiences as a land surveyor that you'd like to share?
Dusty:Well, you never know what you come across, And sometimes you come across things you usually didn't come across. And and landowners that you don't wanna deal with, but
T.J.:Mhmm.
Dusty:And with gunshots or guns in your face.
T.J.:So you've had
Dusty:off my property.
T.J.:You've had all of that experience.
Dusty:I had some of that experience. I didn't know why I get it. What can you do?
T.J.:Well, you're you're here talking with me, that means you came out on this end of it. So that's good. Dusty, let's talk about your coming to the Christian faith. And were you raised in the church, or did you come to worship experiences a little bit later in life? Where would you like to begin on on that path?
Dusty:I I was raised in the church, but the first 5 or so years, it was off and on. My my parents met in a church across, but my dad's family was in a common Presbyterian Church, and my mother's younger brother was a CP pastor. But they met through a cousin of my dad's who went to the Church of Christ. And later on, we would go in to the CP church my uncle was preaching at, and ended up staying. That's also where my dad's parents would go in and my dad's aunts and his other part of his cousins.
Dusty:It was kinda weird that my my mom's brother, who was a church of Christ growing up, was a preacher at the CP church in the middle of nowhere, Arkansas. Walnut Grove is where that was at. My dad's dad's great uncles or whatever helped start that church from, in the 19 thirties. And my dad's got cousins that are still there. One's a sash and clerk.
Dusty:The other one's an elder.
T.J.:Wow. So your family has some deep ties and roots in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Dusty:They do.
T.J.:So you had little to no escape. You just didn't know it, I guess, back then.
Dusty:No. I didn't know that. I didn't know the history was until about 5 years ago.
T.J.:Oh, wow. That's interesting.
Dusty:I went to the library and was, like, oh, there's in the library, in the in the history book, there was my my family's names, like, oh, I know those folks. Started on a little schoolhouse.
T.J.:Well, you you said for the 1st few years of your life, you're kinda on and off. What changed to where your your family was attending regularly, which meant since you were younger that you had to attend regularly? That's
Dusty:well, mom always took us with us. So, and well, okay. Hold on. I know you just asked a question, but my uncle was also preaching at another CP church before there when I was a little bitty. So he was Paris.
T.J.:Okay. So he was at Walnut Grove, but he was at Paris Cumberland Presbyterian Church before this.
Dusty:Yes. And we went there, and I got in trouble at that church once for writing my name on the wall. But
T.J.:In the sanctuary?
Dusty:No. Outside.
T.J.:Oh, you actually wrote your
Dusty:name? Break. Yeah. I got in trouble for that. But
T.J.:What did you Wait. Now hold on. We gotta live here for a minute. What did you use to write your name?
Dusty:It was a marker. A little, a little crayola marker. And I think I took it from, like, the classroom, but I don't remember how I got that. I just remember writing my name and getting in trouble, and mom said, god's not gonna like that.
T.J.:How old were you at the time, roundabout?
Dusty:I was probably about 4.
T.J.:Man, so 4 year old graffiti on the side of a church. Was there any kind of foreshadowing in that? Did that lead to other types of graffiti growing up?
Dusty:It did not.
T.J.:Okay. Not
Dusty:that I can remember.
T.J.:That was your one and only. Is your name still on the church?
Dusty:I don't know. That church is no longer existing, so
T.J.:Oh, okay.
Dusty:It got sold off.
T.J.:Okay. Yeah. How do you get marker? I'm sure if you pressure washed it. But I don't know.
T.J.:I never really thought about that.
Dusty:Like I said, it was a Crayola marker, so it probably washed off.
T.J.:Okay.
Dusty:It looked, you know, kid marker.
T.J.:Alright. I interrupted you, but I wanted to still live there. I wanted to hear about Dusty, drawing on the church wall. So, we were talking about, Paris, coming to the Presbyterian Church and Walnut Grove. And then I spoke over you.
T.J.:So go ahead.
Dusty:Well, I don't remember where we went from there. Well, I I've got off subject, so you can blame it on me. My we end up staying at the church because my my uncle was preaching and like I said, that's where a lot of my dad's family my dad didn't go. Of course, he worked nights, and he he it was weird. He never did go to that church.
Dusty:He was a different member that I can remember. He's always going to see his parents was there, my except my his aunt and cousins, we always that's how we end up staying in the church was because of them. And my mom's brother was the preacher, so it was easy for her because she switched face. She went from, like, like, I said, church of Christ to to that. And, she's from East Arkansas, and she just happened to move because my grandpa my uncle was there and my her parents had moved.
Dusty:He was a coach, and, he graduated from tech here, which he also I guess, he'd made a connection CP wise because a guy he went to school with was a CP whose dad's a preacher, who is now a Presbyterian USA preacher in Texas. But his and his grandpa's are still a CP preacher here in Fort Smith area. But we the connection was because of my uncle, I guess. So that's why my mom was comfortable going because of her brother. And so we ended up staying, and I was raised in church, that church for about, I don't know, up until I graduated high school, and we ended up switching.
T.J.:Even though we're raised in the church, and not everybody is, but, you were or I were, There's still a delineation between attending church and actually having a relationship, with God through Jesus Christ. Dusty, is there a pivotal moment in your life where you desired that you wanted to have a relationship with God and you made a profession of faith? In 2,004,
Dusty:I think I was 15. I'm aging myself here. As when I accepted and became baptized, I took the I just that was a moment that I can remember that I guess was the pivot point where I accepted and and got well, I accepted to be baptized and everything, and, that was a a, time that I can I can remember being baptized because it's funny? It was in a lake in a cow field, and when I raised up, there was a cow pie floating by. My uncle was the was the he wasn't ordained in the church, but he was the one who baptized me with, Henry Jenkins, who was the preacher I had here recently.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Dusty:Or at least the church we went to after leaving Walnut Grove. He was in charge of that church and 2 other ones. So they were the 2 CP, I guess, the one CP and non CP. That's that's who was there that day. My well, there was, like, 4 other people that got baptized that day or 5 other people.
Dusty:But we all that was I don't know. I'm I'm rambling here. Sorry.
T.J.:No. You're doing you're doing great, Dusty. Yeah. I I saw when you sent me your brief bio, I cracked up when I read the part that when you were baptized, when you came up out of the water, the the thing that you remember is seeing a cow pie floating by. I think that is hilarious.
Dusty:There's a picture on Facebook, but I don't know if you see the cow pie or not, but I I remember seeing it.
T.J.:So what was going on in your 15 year old mind for you wanting to have a relationship with God? I mean, we've established already. You grew up in the church. But, I mean, at 15, I mean, there's so much going on in your head and your body's changing. Tell me more about that desire of what were you thinking at that time?
Dusty:I don't know. That's one of those it's just you wake up. I I just woke up and was like, that's what I need to do. That's that's where I need to go. I just don't know how to explain that.
Dusty:And that was so long ago. There's so much things that's happened since then. I've slept since then. I don't know if I can remember all the details, but Yeah. We're being saved.
Dusty:I think also a year later or before, wrestling. We had there was a wrestling thing that came in. It was church wise, and we were there and I gave myself to the Lord then too.
T.J.:Yeah. There's that, I I think there's an interesting conversation to have about, like, recommitting ourselves, to God. You know, reevaluating like we would with any relationship, whether it's with our parents or, you know, a loved one, but kinda looking at those relationships. I think we could do the same as well in our relationship with God and commit commit ourselves anew to that relationship with a renewed focus. You are, unique in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church in terms of one of the services that you provide.
T.J.:So on top of being a land surveyor, you also work for Arkansas Presbytery. I thought we could talk about that for a few moments. Your title is IT and Communications Director. What does an IT and Communications Director do for Arkansas Presbyterian?
Dusty:That's funny because they asked me to do that. I'm like, I'm not really an IT person. I'm just a tech savvy person. I manage the proprietary website, those social media stuff, and send emails out mass emails out when they need to. So that started in 2019.
Dusty:Mhmm. They asked for a website and asked me if I would do it, and I got it started. And then they also asked or they also had approved to go camera to record presbyteryal stuff, his for historical purposes. And then the pandemic happened.
T.J.:Right. So you have this new equipment. You're really just getting started in 2019. And then we, as the rest of the world, had to shift over to the digital space. So you were you were already there.
T.J.:Had you had a meeting that, you had filmed and made live, prior to the pandemic?
Dusty:Did not. The fall presbytery was when all that took place and the pandemic happened before the spring. And I think that was God's way of saying, this is where we need you because that's what happened. Because then we had this spring private area. We had to have technology to to to do things.
T.J.:Right.
Dusty:Zoom and recording and bringing all these folks on, and then it happened, you know, it happened again in the spring of the next or the fall of the next year. And then, the next the spring of 21, we've met actually met in person. We did a hybrid meeting, and I had to help get that going and doing, voting. We did voting via phone. So they did a text message in when it popped up on the screen.
Dusty:So those who couldn't make it because they were scared of getting sick or they could do it. And the people in the audience in the church at Fort Smith, they, devoted via phone, so it all will show up on the screen how it how it went, so we could get a, accurate number of if it passed or not. And then the fall no. When did that was that last year last spring? That was last fall.
T.J.:That was March March of 2022.
Dusty:Yes. March of 22. I forgot this was 2023. March of 22, we were meeting at the Palestine church, and they had the board of missions had put the proposal again before the presbytery to make the position a permanent position and came up with the title and a pay because I was apparently, I was doing more work than they're like, you're not getting compensated for it. And they also had me to start traveling to churches that needed help with IT problems or getting live streams going.
Dusty:And if someone couldn't make it, that they need us wanna fill in the place to do so for a Sunday. When we have some churches that were they're trying to implement, getting televised preachers and where we can't fill a pulpit because that's a we don't have a supply. Mhmm. So, like, Josh Murray, who was in Florida, he videos in every Sunday to the Shell Chapel Church. And sometimes they had to have their problems, and they call me to help fix those problems and figure out a plan of getting something going.
T.J.:So do you get those calls even on, like, a Sunday morning?
Dusty:Yes.
T.J.:And so part of your role is to help troubleshoot and walk through with a local congregation if they're having, technical issues for worship or for meetings or or whatever it may be where they need the technology.
Dusty:It is. They do and that that happens a lot. I also get asked to put, build websites for churches, which happened, I guess, last year before last for 2 churches we have in the Little Rock area. They're small, and they're trying to grow. Chris Fleming and, Christy Lounsbury, they are doing the, what's that program called?
T.J.:Engage.
Dusty:Engaged. Yes. And the board of missions had contacted them to get to come help these 2 churches because it's like they're in a metropolitan. We need them to expand instead of shrink. And they Chris and then they asked me to help get a website built for them, so I do I did that.
Dusty:Because it's like a we live in a day and age where people Google things and they say, hey. Where's the church? If you have if you don't have a digital or a online presence, you sometimes get past. They don't know you exist.
T.J.:Right. I was about to say that, or you don't exist unless you have a digital presence.
Dusty:And I do that and, I manage, I don't know, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5 websites in the presbytery, one being church camp. And well, I think that's how I kinda got started too because I did the church camp website.
T.J.:Okay. And that that church camp is called, in Arkansas, is called Camp Penile.
Dusty:Yes. Where God met or where Jacob seeing God face to face. Mhmm.
T.J.:And, to find your work, your wonderful work in terms of website building, people can go to arpcpc.org, and that will be that's Arkansas Presbyterian. And then, what is the Camp Pennile website?
Dusty:It's camp dash panail.com.
T.J.:Okay. That one's even easier than arpcpc.org.
Dusty:It's always rprezptaycpc.
T.J.:Oh, okay. Okay. That does help.
Dusty:I think West Tennessee's was WTPCPC at one point. The old one.
T.J.:Maybe. It might have been.
Dusty:And we have the links on our presbytery website for all the other presbyteries that we I've found.
T.J.:And one of the things I like about the website is, like, you can go there and you can find your preliminary minutes as a member of the presbytery, then you can find the minutes, like previous minutes. Yeah. It's pretty well pretty well documented. Dusty, what have you learned about, working with Arkansas Presbyterian, the different congregations and helping them kind of move into the digital space in the 21st century. And what advice do you have, from your experience for those who are are working in that direction and maybe they just hadn't got started?
T.J.:What would be a good first step?
Dusty:Making sure you have a pin drop on Google or a map, because that's also one of those things.
T.J.:Well, here, let's let's let's assume somebody's listening, and you just said pin drop on Google, and they don't know what that means.
Dusty:It's a place marker or a a little fish pen that you would put on the map on a billboard Mhmm. To mark the location that you can search. And I've also helped manage to get the states all those marked because a lot of those words are not marked, or they're in the wrong location, which does not benefit someone trying to find the church. So if you can't find a location, you it's they take shoot in the country over. The the county over.
Dusty:Sorry.
T.J.:And you can do you can do this from your phone in the parking lot of the church, because I've done that I've done that with the Apple Maps, for congregations that I visited. But if somebody is in their church parking lot and that church is not on a Google map or Apple map, you can request or submit that that spot, geographically, could be identified as, fill in the blank, Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Dusty:Mhmm. And I've done that too with sorry. And I've done that too with with Apple Maps as well, because that's the same. They're both was in places that are off.
T.J.:Yeah. And it takes a few business days or sometimes more, but, usually, it's a fairly quick response.
Dusty:It is. And, you also wanna have a website to me, a website helps. It helps with learning more about the church that you may have because not everybody has Facebook or a Twitter or Instagram. And I know that with some people in the church, because we we did the livestream stuff, and she goes, I can't watch it. I was like, it's on the website.
Dusty:I've got it set to where you can go there and watch it if you need to, if you miss. So to me, having an online presence helps build or helps people understand where the church is and if they exist.
T.J.:And it's a form of evangelism in terms of, especially if you're live streaming or providing, worship through the digital space, people are able to hear, the good news and experience the good side of the community of faith. Sometimes, I think the church, just the the word in quotations church, is perceived in a ill light. Sometimes we've earned that. But I think it's always good to have a personal experience or personal encounter to draw your own conclusions about a specific congregation or maybe even a denomination to to know the type of people, that Christians can be at our best.
Dusty:And true. And the church itself is not the building. It's the folks who come together, and so you can have some that have come together online, if it still support, and I've I've had people say, well, they don't give him money. Well, we learned last last month that we had some people donate online giving about $500 1 month, that they don't attend our church, that they enjoyed it, the online part, and they felt the call and the need. And so people do that.
Dusty:And if you are one of those that are online, you never know who you're talking to, and so they feel the need or the call to give to your church to help you keep doing what you're doing.
T.J.:Dusty, one of the things that you do that has impressed me so much and has been an example to me, you had put in your bio that for 14 years, you were driving an hour and a half to attend worship. And I mean, that is quite a commitment. And it wasn't until this past October that you moved your church membership to Russellville, Cumberland Presbyterian Church. So if you don't mind talking about the what what what drove you, what level of commitment to an hour and a half one way just to worship, and to do that for 14 years, half your day is gone.
Dusty:Yes. So I guess I'll start where I graduated high school, and my uncle retired from preaching. And so we ended up switching and sold several members to the Punville church, which is where Henry Jenkins is, and my cousin Kathy has always been going to Kathy Littlefield. She's always been going there before we even like, she was part of that church. We were part of the the Walnut Grove.
Dusty:So we suede the switch, and my dad who, like I said earlier in this conversation that he never did attend, Something pulled my dad into finally coming with us and that when we made that switch. And I kept going because my dad was going. Mhmm. So my I guess because my dad was going to church, ended up staying and driving an hour and a half in the college to attend church. And, he became an elder.
Dusty:My mom became an elder, and I kept on going. And I was like, well, gas prices are getting up there. And an hour and a half is a long time, hour and a half there, an hour and a half back, It just made sense to me to move to a local church to help grow. That it's there's 4 right here where I live, including church camp. Church camp is 15 minutes away.
Dusty:And I was like, just make the move. Split away from my comfort zone and join a church that I don't know a lot of I do actually know a lot of folks in, but it benefited my pocket, which benefited giving more to God. And so I made that move. Russellville is only 30 minutes away compared to an hour and a half.
T.J.:How hard was that for you? Because you have the benefits of seeing your family, worshiping with your family. But then as well, there's there's the benefits of well, it's the day of rest as much as we can on the Christian Sabbath and you were spending 3 hours of it in the vehicle. So the benefits of cutting that time down. How hard of a transition was that for you?
Dusty:I don't think it was a hard transition. It was actually I think maybe it's probably easy one to make because it was easier to I knew that my parents were okay, So they're fine where they were at. I can make the move. I did I didn't need to be a a cushion. And, or that that cushion wasn't needed for me.
Dusty:I could I needed to to branch off. So I also helped get that church the church technology going to do livestream stuff because when the pandemic happened, they didn't have the tools. And so I they said they're canceling service, and I said, no. We're not. Y'all meet in the parking lot.
Dusty:I'll get the FM transmitter that I do my Christmas lots with who are having
T.J.:service. Yeah.
Dusty:And I did that. So I got them started on tech and getting the camera and everything so they could do their livestream stuff now. And I felt that was good enough that I can move also. I they've got them where they and I've got them to where they can do their stuff. They don't need me as a crutch.
Dusty:I can move closer. I can still watch them if I have to online or if I need to to get my feel at the Bumble Church. Kathy Littlefield does that sometimes since she's not having or when someone else is not there at the church, Kathy will take over the livestream stuff. And that church is also meeting, every other Sunday. They go between their and old union.
Dusty:That will switch because the congregation has gotten so small. It's like most of our churches. They're aging, and they're not aging well like fine wine. So
T.J.:So, here, we'll take a side tangent. So, they're in Booneville 1 Sunday, and then what was the name of the other congregation?
Dusty:Old Union, which is in one of our older congregations here in the Presbyterian.
T.J.:Yeah. So do the people of Boonville go over to Old Union? And the people from that that's pretty neat. So
Dusty:They had one preacher for as long as I can remember. I said earlier, Henry Jenkins is in charge of 4 churches in the area at one point. Now it's 3. And because he's still in charge of Old Walnut Grove. But he preaches only at Boneville and Old Union up until the pandemic.
Dusty:He was preaching 2 sermons a Sunday, and now he just preaches 1 at the other church. He switches between the 2. And the the 2 congregations, they go between the buildings, one Sunday to the other.
T.J.:That's really neat. So, essentially, you're blending 2 different church 2 different congregations, and you're just rotating, where you worship.
Dusty:Yes.
T.J.:That's pretty neat. That's a creative way of being able to keep, like, the church building still up and running. And but the openness too to be able to go to another place for worship on Sunday.
Dusty:And that's something I I dread later on when they have to close a church because I don't know which one I would pick. The older one, which is an old wide frame building in the middle of nowhere with the cemetery or the one that's a newer 19 79 built church Wow. Town. Yeah. But then there are 2 different towns too.
Dusty:One's in a magazine and one's in Boomville.
T.J.:Yeah. That would be a tough one. Well, I think the best will work out, whatever that is for those circumstances. Let's talk about what it was like for you to transition into the Russellville church. What was going through your mind?
T.J.:You said you knew a few people there, but still it was a change. It's different. And I think that people forget the difficulties and the level of anxiety of what it's like to enter into a church where most everybody in that building knows one another except for you.
Dusty:That that transition, like I said, I I don't think it was really that hard. There a lot of folks there did know me, because there's a lot of, camp folks that were there.
T.J.:I thought you were gonna say it's because you put your name you graffiti your name on every church that you go to. No.
Dusty:And actually, don't do that. Just one time. I promise. But, well, I say that we when I was at Walnut Grove, we did paint our hands in this youth thing, but that wasn't graffiti. We were told to do it.
Dusty:So, but I don't think that I really don't think that was a hard choice to make, a hard transition because Melinda Rames, she's been on this podcast. She goes to church there. She knows me from church camp. She's on the board of missions who had me to start doing the technology stuff. So was Jim Fisk.
Dusty:He's the preacher. Drew Blake is on the camp board with me. Not knowing him since charge camp. He's just a little 2 years younger than me. Bobby Kinslow, she's passed away.
Dusty:She was, a big person in that church, and so they knew me because of her. Mhmm. And she was the in charge of church camp for a long time. She was the big backbone in church camp growing up. Actually, we named a building after her.
T.J.:So it was really advantageous for you because there was people who either knew you or knew of you, and you knew some of them as well. What advice, Dusty, if you if you have any, for those folks who may not have those connections, but they they want to find out they're seeking to find out more about God and want to experience worship and prayer and meditation and study of the scriptures, what advice do you have for them? Or maybe they've never entered into a church before, or it's been a long time, or they've never been into that one particular setting.
Dusty:Oh, you got me. Well I'm not a I'm not a bible thumper.
T.J.:Well, no. See, I I think you you you have a better perspective because, like, for me speaking as a minister, it's a different it's a different perspective. It's a different role. And I think some of that can be overlooked or forgotten or not considered when your actual calling is to serve through a church. And it's always important for us to be able to put ourself in the role of maybe the level of anxieties or even the fear of entering into a building that we're unfamiliar with, into a setting that we're not totally comfortable with?
Dusty:I'm a person who doesn't like change, so I would say it's just like starting a new job. You go into a place you're not used to being at. You don't know all the folks there most of the time, if it's unless it's you actually have friends there, but you have to take that chance. You never know unless you try. And, what is it?
Dusty:Mark 2nd 17? Talks about, like, a doctor. If you're we're not all healthy. We need Jesus, and, we need a doctor. So Jesus is the doctor.
Dusty:If you don't take the chance to heal yourself, you never get better. And so if you don't take the chance to to try out something that you're uncomfortable with, you'll never know. I think that's right. Is it Mark 7 Mark 2nd 17? I can't think of that.
Dusty:The the Bible verse is, like, in my head, but I can't think of how it how it's read.
T.J.:I try to clear everything off the desk, so I have no distractions when we talk. So I'd have to get up to look it up. I can't even
Dusty:reach my phone.
T.J.:I can't even purposely can't reach my phone, so that I can focus on our faith conversation. Go ahead. You have it pulled up.
Dusty:Mark 2nd 17. It is not the healthy who were needed who need a doctor, but the sick is what it says. And so, yes, and I keep the Bible on my phone and I keep the confession of faith is on my phone. And people don't know that you can get the confession of faith online from the kremlin.org.
T.J.:Yeah. That's right.
Dusty:And I keep telling the people that presbytery will go to the website. It's on there.
T.J.:Yeah. I think it's in PDF form, if you wanted it. It is. Yeah. Well, since we're talking about scripture and the confession of faith for Cumberland Presbyterian, What is one of your favorite scriptures, Dusty?
T.J.:One that speaks to you, one that you always kind of fall back on when things are going rough or awry.
Dusty:This might sound weird, but it's Genesis 3230, which is this is how church camp got its name. It's where Jacob said, for us and God face to face, I call the place Panal, which then reference me back to church camp where I, like to be at. Because there's I like to set the vespers by yourself and just stare out towards the mountain that you see off in the off the across the river, across the hill there. Because our worship service at camp sits on the side of a hill, but the trees are cleared, and you can see off in the distance. That verse reminds me of camp, which reminds me of great memories and where I can sit and be peaceful in nature and see what or I can certain I'm gonna take reflect on what I need from God.
T.J.:How about the confession of faith? What's your favorite aspect of the confession of faith? You must like it if you keep it on your phone.
Dusty:I don't know if I like it.
T.J.:Well, you have the consent.
Dusty:Me to keep we're we're gonna stay in control in the press in the in the church, so I don't get in trouble if I say something wrong.
T.J.:Well, there's a confession of faith. There's a constitution. There's a rules of discipline, the directory of worship. But let's just talk about the confession of faith.
Dusty:Well, so the confession of faith also says we don't have a set way of how we worship. Mhmm. It gives you that's what makes every church in our denomination different because not all of them follow the exact same. What is that part? It's the how they do worship, how they go about the order of worship.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Dusty:Each one's does it differently, and our confession of faith says that where we can do or because something out here. I don't remember the how it's how it's it's
T.J.:In the directory of worship, for the Cumberland Presbyterian, there's, the order of worship and its liturgy. There's some freedom there for the liturgy to be chosen to help fit the context in the setting for that particular congregation. And it differs from other mainline denominations that may have a more of a set liturgy. And, for Cumberland Presbyterian, there's a guidance in the directory of worship that help us and, even for special services like, for the sacraments, even prayer services. So there's that aspect.
T.J.:But for in the confession of faith, it talks about Christian worship includes our our study, our prayer, our singing, the listening for, God's word. It may even be fellowship in there. I'd have to I'd have to look it up. I see you looking on your phone.
Dusty:I'm trying to find it. I know it's somewhere around page 13. But yes. And so I know that we have some of our churches are more of a Pentecostal kind of type, I feel, I guess you would say. Some of our churches are more traditional.
Dusty:Some of them are more modern take on things.
T.J.:I have it.
Dusty:And Sorry. I made you do it.
T.J.:No. That's fine. Christian Worship 5.14. Christian Worship includes proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ, celebrating the sacraments, reading and hearing the scriptures, praying, singing, and committing committing life and resources to God. This common worship of the church validates and sustains such other worship as the church finds meaningful for celebrating the living presence of God.
T.J.:So those are the foundations for Christian worship for Cumberland Presbyterians. But as you were alluding to, it doesn't spell out step by step or what songs to sing and when to sing it.
Dusty:It doesn't really say there's different and I think it I wanna say there's some and there's somewhere else that says or a a there's maybe different orders that you can take. Is it not?
T.J.:In the directory of worship.
Dusty:Yes.
T.J.:Yeah. Further back. So all of that is to say is one of your favorite parts of the confession since I cornered you and you were kind enough to try to respond is was the the kind of the Christian worship, section of the confession of faith. Yes. Well, Dusty, one of the questions that I like to to ask many of the guests is, and this is always in reference to our relationship with God, is how are you experiencing God's presence here and now?
T.J.:How do you know that you're in a relationship with God and God is in relationship with you?
Dusty:I feel like I know that he's still calling. He he's giving me a calling that's different than everybody most of other folks. He because he's I'm not being called to be a minister. I feel like I know that he's there, and he's telling me, here's your talents. This is where I want you to to to do them, whether it's a church camp or technology stuff.
Dusty:I feel like I know that he's giving me, like he's telling me to do this. This is you. Here's what we want you to do. Do it. You need to help grow the church, but you can't grow the church sometimes in a certain spot.
Dusty:You have to branch out.
T.J.:And your gifts are certainly appreciated, by the Presbyterian. And and I admire them as well because I've benefited from your gifts in terms of checking out the website, and I can find the churches in fine minutes for Arkansas Presbyterian. It's great. You do a great great job, Dusty. Before we close out our conversation, music, books, television shows, movies, any of those that speak to you, deepen your faith or that you just enjoy and you wanna share?
Dusty:I'm not a book reader. That's not something I do. I'm terrible. I had it I'm actually a good reader. I I got to skip out of that college because they said I was I qualified to be out of that, but I'm not a reader.
Dusty:So when I was in college, I the song came out, my chains are gone, Amazing Grace, My Chains Are Gone. But there was a movie that was that part of, which tells the story of how that song came to be. That, to me, tells me that I might be a center, but I'm able to break free with that when when I try to I don't know. It's it's something that, that I've related to, I guess, because I like the history also. And you find that on the on the website, but history of the churches, but, that it's a historical content and slavery and stuff too that I don't know.
Dusty:It's just it's one of those songs that and and the movie itself, you need to watch if you have it. But
T.J.:I haven't seen it. So you have a combo here. So you have a song that's important to you, but there's a movie also made about Amazing Grace.
Dusty:Yes. And there's another song that I liked when I was in when I went to Walnut Grove that I haven't heard in forever, and it's called the Royal Telephone.
T.J.:Okay. I don't
Dusty:know if you heard that or not. Oh, no. It's 1919 song, hymn, and it's we always have a that phone call to to God. It's never busy. It's never broken.
Dusty:It's if it if there's a broke in it, it you mend it by your faith. You can always use it. Telephone to Glory. It's, it's just it's it's the song that I've loved. I can reference that too because it's when I need God, I can sit down, take the time, and do the phone call to him, And it's never gonna be interrupted.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. I can I can definitely the message within the song, even though I haven't heard it, definitely puts that into context? Dusty, I appreciate the gifts that you bring to the church and that you bring specifically to Arkansas Presbyterian. I really am glad that you shared your faith journey.
T.J.:I know you were terribly nervous about this, but you did a fantastic job. And I want others to to meet you and to hear your story, hear your faith, and benefit from the gifts that you bring to the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and to the big church at large. Thank you, Dusty.
Dusty:Thank you.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this faith conversation on Cumberland Road. To support this podcast, subscribe, follow, and share with others. There are over 120 guests to listen to and more to come. Now let me leave you with some words from the Cumberland Presbyterian directory of worship. Worship is fundamental to the mission of the Christian church. To worship god is to act out of our obedience to the god who has revealed himself to us, called and claimed us as his people. In worship, the initiative lies with God, and the focus is on God. God and God's redemptive and creative work are both the object and the subject of worship. To worship is to reenact the gospel in its fullness and simplicity. In worship, we discover and express our identity as God's people. We participate in the ongoing redemptive work of God in the world, and we offer ourselves anew to the one who has created, redeemed, and sustained us. We worship because of who we are and who God is.
