Ed Adair - Pride, Grace, And The Peace of Scriptures
You are listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Mellinoski. The following is a faith conversation with Ed Adair, a licentuate preparing for ministry and a stated supply at the Heartsong Cumberland Presbyterian Church in East Tennessee. Ed is an attorney, not currently practicing law, but has served in the capacity as a federal law clerk and as a special assistant to the United States Attorney for the Department of Interior. Currently, he works for the Department of Energy at the Oak Ridge National Laboratories as a privacy specialist. Ed shares that he experienced a call to ministry in his teenage years, yet it was a recent moment of transition in his life that has landed him in school again, and this time on a different path of education.
T.J.:I would like to mention that this episode of Cumberland Road is being published around the time I just started the podcast 3 years ago. I want to thank the 100 and 40 plus guests who have bravely agreed to share their faith. I especially want to thank those early guests for their patience as I was trying to figure out how to put this together, how to be a host, how to be a good listener, and how to ask important questions. I also want to thank you. Thank you for listening. I did not anticipate the need nor the love or support that you have given me. I will continue to strive to improve, to listen, and to lift up amazing people and their journeys. So now, my dear friend, here is my faith conversation with Ed Adair.
T.J.:Ed, you were telling me that you you you are a former federal law clerk, special assistant, United States attorney for the Department of Interior. My goodness. That's a long title.
Ed:Well, the well, those are 2 jobs. The federal federal law clerk job was the first job I had when I graduated from the University of Kentucky College of Law back in 1985, and that was with, judge Eugene e Seiler junior. Super, super nice guy. Now his court it was the Eastern District of Kentucky. So we we met in London in the courthouse there, which really cool courthouse.
Ed:The courtroom is 1, I think, of only 2 that had a kind of it was a rotunda. It was a round wall on the inside. So that was beautiful courtroom and and a really nice work experience. Worked with another 2 other attorneys, Francis Catherine and and then, Frank Atkins. I was just remembering him.
Ed:Frank's no longer with us. He passed away this year. It was this year or last year, but super super guy. He had former military experience, and he and I spent a lot of time together. We used to carpool with the judge, and we'd take turns picking him up.
Ed:Judge had a real funny sense of humor and just real dry. He had 2 Great Danes, Dot and Dagmar. Dot was okay. Dagmar is exactly the way you would expect a dog to be named Dagmar, I guess. Dagmar would come out if it got out of the house and grab the bumper of the car as we were driving away and pull.
Ed:And you could feel the pull of the dog on the car as we're trying to get away with the judge and go to the courtroom. Wow. Well, that's you didn't ask for all that. I'm sorry. It's like yeah.
Ed:The
T.J.:Yeah. What did a federal clerk federal law clerk do?
Ed:Right. Now we sat in the courtroom with the judge during the trials, during cases with civil and criminal, and most of the writing was done in the civil cases. We'd go back and when the, case was over, primarily, you know, the judge would you know, the the attorneys for both sides would file their briefs and memorandum and all that. And we'd go back and write up an opinion and present it to the judge. Like, there'd be a clerk per case.
Ed:You know, it wouldn't be 2 of us writing on the same case, but and and that got to be interesting. I mean, I I loved it because I love to write. But I remember spending quite a bit of time on one opinion, taking it to him one time, and and dropping it off in his office. And he called me back in the next day, and he was going on and on about how but he really liked, you know, the analysis I put into it and the way that I've written it. He said, I want you to take it back, and the only change you need to make is the other side is winning this case.
Ed:You know, not not the one that not the plaintiffs aren't winning. It's a defense case. And so I learned an important lesson. Yeah. Let let
T.J.:me interrupt you there. So was that a gut wrenching?
Ed:Nope. Because he handled it. He did it in a way like a a very a doctor with an incredible bedside manner that keeps you from panicking. You know? You know, he was he he was complimentary on the writing.
Ed:He just wanted it to come out the other way. So I went back and changed it, of course, and gave it to him. But I learned the important lesson of not being married to what I was writing, and that's come in helpful, like, in in my current job. I do a whole lot of writing. And and depending on the process of what's being written, you might have, you know, 6 people that were viewing what you wrote.
Ed:And if you if you got all tied up and married to what you had put down on that, you know, for that document, then it makes it easy to start getting defensive when the corrections or modifications start getting suggested. But that's typically not a problem for me because I I had that important lesson from the judge decades ago.
T.J.:How do you, just in general, let's expand this a bit. So how do you remove yourself as a writer from the material that you're putting together? How do you how do or let me rephrase the question or ask in a different way. How do you write objectively?
Ed:No. That is that's a really good question. 1, it's how do you it's actually a deep question too, because how do you live objectively? It's the same process. You have to, 1, remove you have to remove pride from the scenario.
Ed:I mean, you've got to I've got a job to do. I'm gonna do the best I can. Unlike Martin Luther, I am not alone wise. So, I mean, there are other people out there who may actually do a better job on this than me, and I've got to be open to that fact and kinda be in a little decision. Of course, there's people out there.
Ed:So, you know, try to remove the pride and and realize that what I write down could be could very well be improved upon by someone else.
T.J.:How about a special assistant to the United States attorney for the Department of Interior?
Ed:It's actually longer than that. It was a special assistant, United States attorney for the Department of Interior's Office of Surface Mining Reclamation and Enforcement. We had the largest business cards of anybody in the federal government.
T.J.:Oh, that was a plaque or not a business card?
Ed:That yeah. I was just kidding. That was a joke. Simply, that was I worked in the field solicitor's office in Knoxville, Tennessee, and we enforced, surface mining regulations. I mean, pretty simple.
Ed:I mean, the title's a whole lot longer and sounds a lot cooler than the job really was. We didn't carry guns or anything. The, litigation that took place usually was before, judge Corbett. This administrative law judge that would hold court in Knoxville and other places, And it was you're going after people who left their mine site unreclaimed, typically. There was also an aspect trying to collect, what was it, abandoned mine land taxes that were supposed to be paid, and and that, that wasn't a fund.
Ed:You know? No. Collection work is never a fund. But that was that was an interesting job, and it lasted 3 years. And then George Bush the younger no.
Ed:I'm sorry. George Bush the older and Dan Quayle put a move on to, reduce attorneys within the federal government. And I remember the day that, JT Begley, this Bill's solicitor, remember he called everybody in for a big staff meeting. We sat down, and on the blackboard, he started writing up all these numbers. You know?
Ed:And it and I'd been to law school. I knew what was going on. You know, he's he's laying the groundwork for some bad news. So at the very end of it, he basically said that, we're gonna have to let go, I forget what percent of the staff. And I'm sitting there with the knowledge that I was one of the last 3 attorneys hired.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Ed:And I knew that that would be the the route that they take. The, you know, the last one that's hired would be the first ones to go. So he was just letting us know that it'd be a little while before it happened, and I immediately went back and got on the phone and and secured a job in industry, basically doing similar kind of work, but on the other side of the table and had that within weeks, I guess.
T.J.:So you only focused on the mineral aspect because the Department of Interior covers, like, public lands, national parks, wildlife refuge, Native American trust, federal trust with the Native Americans.
Ed:I don't think so. But now we didn't have anything to do with that.
T.J.:Just a
Ed:Our office our office was just
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For you. For you.
T.J.:Yeah.
Ed:Yeah.
T.J.:How long were you there? Just a couple years? 3
Ed:3 years. 3 years. And what made it interesting, I went to work for a firm in London that represented coal companies. And I had been there I mean, I was a part I was just a junior junior associate kinda guy. Had been there less than a month, I'd say.
Ed:And one of their major clients had a coal mine that had, you know, beneath where they had done a mountaintop removal job, there had been an old strip mining job, and the reclamation work that had been done there, there was a landslide that emptied it it hit a stream or, you know, a fork of a river or something. Huge deal, and I forget the, you know, the monetary cost that it was gonna require the client to pay if they just, you know, rolled over and paid it. So they were gonna fight it. And the the main the the owner of the law firm, the main partner head partner called me in his office, and he explained what was going on. And he said, you know, we're up against the office you just left.
Ed:I said, this is your case. And he said, I don't want you to worry or get nervous. He said, this is a big case for you. You win it, and the client's gonna love you forever. But if you lose it, you probably need to find another job.
Ed:So that was that was interesting. We had a 3 day trial, same ALJ. He came up to London. And, it's a longer story and a funny one that I'll tell you sometime. But, at the lunchtime on the 3rd day, me and my former team leader, Charles Gough, we were walking out the parking lot.
Ed:The ALJ was between us, and he said, you know, I've I've heard enough guys. He said, I'm ready to make a ruling. Is that okay with you? And I said, well, judge, that all depends on who you're planning on ruling for. And he says, I'm ruling for you guys.
Ed:He pointed at me, and I said, well, then we are absolutely in agreement with your decision to end it early. So we want we ended up winning. So that was a that was nice.
T.J.:What are some of the greatest choice you've had in serving in in those capacities?
Ed:That would have to rank as the highest. And, you know, as far as one of them, because Yeah. You have. It was a challenge. I remember that we were we were in the office.
Ed:I was in there with the the vice president of engineering of the coal company, vice president of safety, you know, all it was just a room full of people talking about something that, you know, I had never mind coal, and I am not an engineer. You know, that's so having to rely on their expertise and and collaborating with them and working with them and and kind of putting our defense together, because it it really wasn't our coal company's fault. It was someone else who had done a poor job of of reclaiming their mining activities. So that was that was to spend that much time in that kind of a tense situation and to see that particular outcome, especially when it came in such a humorous method. And, you know, the guy that I used to work for is standing right next to me.
Ed:That was that was that was sweet.
T.J.:Well, I'm gonna jump around in chronology. Okay. Ed, but you went in your career, you went from the Department of Interior to the Department of Energy. And you work at, Oak Ridge National Laboratories. What role do you have there in Oak Ridge?
Ed:It's it's a it's a nonlawyer role. I'm I'm not licensed to practice in in Tennessee, Kentucky, anywhere right now. But it is I'm the the privacy and regulatory specialist, and I work directly under the chief information security officer officer.
T.J.:Alright.
Ed:And, it's it's a really nice job. It it gets I get to use well, I I have to back up a little bit in order to explain that. When I started off at ORNL, I kinda started off at ground level. I mean, not running mail, but I was on the helpline, you know, doing basic support for people that called in, and then soon moved up doing kind of personal liaison with the server group and and the rest of the lab that needed help with that. And then kinda on up and even did print server administration and a little project management.
Ed:And then worked into this position in, the cybersecurity realm where I started delving in policy because of the writing and the and the legal background. Mhmm. So the the work I do now is an absolute perfect blend of the the technical, skills that I picked up over the last 16 years in the OREO and then the legal skills and and background I've got from the 15 years practicing law. And it I've loved the job.
T.J.:All your roles in your vocation deal with writing and research.
Ed:Yes.
T.J.:What what is it about the writing and the research that you find the most pleasure and satisfaction in? Learning.
Ed:I think that's the number one thing, learning. If I could get paid to go to school my entire life, I would do that. I mean, I just I really I really I'm not saying that right now, seminary, I'm not saying that every moment as a seminary student has been a joyous moment. I mean, there have there have been nights at 2 or 3 in the morning when I'm reading over doctor Minor's requirements for a paper. No.
Ed:I'm just not But that learning is the number one thing, and 2, it's it's kinda like mowing a lawn. I mean, if if you got a job to do, it's nice when the job is over to be able to look back over your shoulder and see. That's a nice looking line. So if you're working on a paper and working on a document, and it's nice at the end to have some closure, look back at it and say that that's that's exactly what I wanted to look like.
T.J.:Yes. However, as someone who formerly owned and operated a landscaping business and was a minster at the same time.
Ed:Can I change my analogies now before we No? No. No. We're we're
T.J.:stuck with it. No. I'm gonna I'm gonna build upon. I'll tear down a little bit, and then I'll build upon what you said. The beauty with ministry, it's hard to see that progress, you know, because it's interpersonal relationships with other human beings.
T.J.:And especially if you're a church leader, You may not see the fruits of that relationship or a growth of another disciple or just growing closer with another human being. The beauty about, other vocations, like mowing, is you can at any point in time, even before the project is over, you know, you can look back, see what you've accomplished, and look forward and see what's still before you that needs to be accomplished. And, I think it's very important for those who are in ministry and feels like ministry to have a hobby, or another vocation that provides a sense of completion because the ministry is always ongoing. You meet new people or it takes months to years to develop trust and rapport. And it's good to have things in your life from fishing to mowing to woodworking to reading a book to writing a book, whatever it is for you, to be able to have something that you know that you can start, see your progress, and finish.
Ed:I agree with every bit of that. But no argument. That's true. And then and then also We'll
T.J.:find something we'll find something. You're on here until we find something to argue about.
Ed:Now what I you made me think a little bit further about what what else I like about it and because one of my hobbies is I like to write poetry. Mhmm. And I do that kind of, again, from my brain to kinda chill and get rid of some of the when the thoughts or ideas or concepts spinning around, sometime I can sit down and just hammer something out to get started and and and get done, and and it's not just to look back and see it done. There is some some part of me, and I it may be even pride, but I'd like for that. You know, I'd like for my kids to have that.
Ed:Maybe their kids to see it, and and it means something to them or at least make them think about something in a way they hadn't thought about thinking about it Mhmm. If if that makes sense.
T.J.:Yeah. As I get older, I kind of wonder, you know, how my children see me now. They'll certainly see me differently as I age, as they age, and even after I'm gone. And for them to be able to pick up a photo that I've taken or something that I've written or something that I've said and be able to learn something new, something that's revealed about me, my character, maybe my thought process at the time. I hope that that would be a good gift for them.
T.J.:I certainly hope it wouldn't be shame. And if I really had the magic wand, not only would I hope it would be a gift, I hope it would have humor for them as well and get a good chuckle out of them and going, oh, he was a silly little man. And, so I I I understand that, you know, to be able to to leave something for others to pick up later on and maybe get something out of it, is is a great joy. And I don't mean that in a, you know, a selfish way. Like, I I have an aversion to the word legacy as a personal thing.
T.J.:I don't mean it in that way. I just mean it as in a contribution to, specifically the people who are closest to me, you know. Something to help them. And then if it reaches others, that's fantastic as well.
Ed:That makes all the sense of the world to me. Yes. And I agree.
T.J.:Ed, why did you choose the career path of law? There are so many other career paths, and that's a long one in terms of training and education.
Ed:You know, I thought you were gonna ask me why I chose a career path to preach, which is the new path, but and really not the new path. But but it kind of kinda going sideways and and hitting in the middle my call story, but that's fine. Yeah. I went to college. I went to Cumberland College in Williamsburg, Kentucky, which is now referred to or known as University of the Cumberlands, I believe.
Ed:It's in Williamsburg. I went there and went to Cumberland to to study religion. After about 21 plus hours, made a left turn and changed over to a history major. And my thought was that I was gonna teach history instead. And then and then as I was doing that, I get ready to graduate, and my adviser tells me there's no jobs for history teachers right now.
Ed:So you'll probably need to just keep going to school and get, you know, get an advanced degree.
T.J.:Oh, no. So your senior year, you get this laid on top of you of, like, hey. When you get done, there's no work.
Ed:So I'm thinking, well, if I'm going on school, I'll just go on to see if I can get into law school with this background. And that's it wasn't any you know, I didn't grow up. I had friends as I was growing up that wanted to be on the supreme court or wanted to be a lawyer. I never had that dream or decider, but that's just how it ended up. Okay.
Ed:And that's and I ended up, you know, enjoying it. I didn't make straight a's, but I did enjoy it. And if it wasn't for people like me, supporting and making possible people like the top 10%, I don't know where we'd be. That's fine.
T.J.:Well, let's talk about your faith a little bit because that does intertwine into your current call, and answering the call, exploring the call that you're in. Ed, did you grow up in a Christian household? And let's talk about let's begin with maybe the earliest memory you have of the Christian faith.
Ed:Okay. I can do that. In 1960, my mom and dad moved up to, Oak Ridge from Georgia for dad to begin work at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory. He was a nuclear physicist and super smart, one of the smartest, probably the smartest man I've ever known. And, I was born a year later and apparently taken immediately to Central Baptist Church because I don't have any memories not being there 8 days a week, 60 weeks a year.
Ed:That's I mean, we were in church all the time, and and and and with the exception of a few years where we were at Glenwood Baptist, we were, you know, members of the well, my parents were members of Central Baptist. So I grew up Southern Baptist. And I and what I'd say about that is I am truly appreciative of the love of God's word that was cultivated during those years. And my one of my earliest memories would be sit standing in Sunday school down in the basement at Central Baptist doing bible drills. You know, doing the they they might have other names now, but and or may have been, but, you know, they'd holler out a bible chapter verse.
Ed:You'd sit there and try to be the first one to find it and then read it if you did. And I love those and just have have really enjoyed you know, that's the one thing that keeps me balanced. One of the things that keeps me balanced, probably the the best, is reading the Bible, getting into God's word. If I've got something going on that's troubling me or things on the outside, you know, work things are going poorly or this over here is going badly. That's it it's it provides peace.
Ed:Mhmm. During that time, I was at Glenwood, mid 1970. We had a campout where we went to some place at Fort Loudoun. And I remember I can't remember how many nights that was. I think I remember getting on the bus or car getting in one of the cars to go there.
Ed:We had forgotten to pack any fishing equipment. And so I think this was the same trip, and dad immediately ran to the store and came back before we left in a little fishing, like, cane pole. And so that was cool. But I can remember a young man by the name of Charlie Rice giving, I guess, kind of a quasi fireside sermon. I was 9 years old.
Ed:His presentation or sermon was on the passion of Christ, and that was 100% all he talked about. And it was then when Yep. For the first time, I had some kind of internal need, desire to to know Jesus better than him. And and and based on what he had done for me to accept him as savior and lord as as much as any 9 year old can understand that at the time. And so, you know, a week later, I was baptized, and that was, you know, that was that was a big deal.
T.J.:Was this a, was this just a father son fishing trip? Or
Ed:No. There was a there was a bunch of folks there, and I don't I don't think I don't think dad even went. I think we had some counselors that were there, but it was just a I wouldn't call them counselors. It wasn't like camp camp, but, you know, 1 or 2 nights over a weekend where bunch of young kids go and fish and, you know, throw marshmallows in the fire.
T.J.:Yeah. Just
Ed:have a good time.
T.J.:Yeah. Kind of a retreat slash fellowship.
Ed:Mhmm. But, that was that was a big deal. And Charlie Rice is still around, retired, and I've we're friends on Facebook. I haven't personally seen him face to face in a long time, but super, super guy.
T.J.:Have you told him this story?
Ed:Oh, he knows yeah. He knows the story. I've gone back and talked to him about that. And he was one of the people when I was visiting Cumberland College before I decided to go to school there. I spent some time with him, and then I spent some time observing a class being taught by, professor doctor Ron Zorn.
Ed:He he taught the old testament and Hebrew and and things like that. But those were the main reasons I decided to go ahead and go to Cumberland, that good experience with those 2 gentlemen.
T.J.:You said earlier when you entered into Cumberland College that, your focus was gonna be on religion. So what was your plan then? What were you thinking?
Ed:I was thinking about because I while I was in high school, I felt a definite call to preach. Whether that was partially because my mother's father was a baptist preacher down in Georgia, quarter time pastor, actually had, like, 4 4 or 5 churches that he would travel to. And I used to tell the story that he used to ride his horse, you know, to to the Easter. Mom heard me tell that story one time and she said, we had a car. So okay, man.
Ed:I like I like my story better.
T.J.:Yeah. Yours was more dramatic.
Ed:It was. It was. I was thinking little house on the prairie kind of stuff. But I remember telling mom and dad that I had been called to preach, and I remember that being met with apprehension. You know, they they knew me better than anybody, and they're thinking, there's no way.
Ed:You know? And so I went and talked to the preacher we had at the time at Central, and I think it was met my statement was met with apprehension, and he gave me, it was 3 legal pages. He told me to come back, you know, the next day. He came back. He had multiple legal size pages of Bible verses, references for me to look up and read on different people in the Bible, their call from God.
Ed:I want you to read all these, and I want you to make sure. And I said, okay. He says, because if you think that this is just a simple way to get through college, because it's easy, it's not. And I'm like, that never crossed my mind. You know?
Ed:But so I went, I can't tell you I can't promise you I read every one. But I remember starting down the list, and I'm like, well, you know, these are all different, and I'm I haven't been called to do this. I haven't been called to do that yet. And so I kinda put that aside. I didn't let that bother me too much, and and still the idea was to go to Cumberland and then go to Southern Seminary, which was, you know, at the time, the place to go.
T.J.:These people that were the closest to you, your family and the minister, what was the apprehensions?
Ed:My guess would be that I was not what you would picture as someone who was suited for the ministry. If that that might be one way to put it.
T.J.:Well, okay. So you took those apprehensions, you listened to them, and yet you still wanted to major in religion. Now, let's jump forward. So, you currently work at Oak Ridge National Laboratories. And you are exploring the call to ministry, the word, and the sacraments in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
T.J.:So give me some background information on that journey.
Ed:On that. Yeah. How did you find
T.J.:the Cumberland Presbyterian Church? Is that a good starting place?
Ed:It's a really good place. That's it was an accident. My wife and I have been married 12 years. And, since this is a podcast, no one saw me close my eyes and kinda look at the ceiling and make sure I was getting the math right. It'll be 12 years.
Ed:It's been 11. So but we were looking for a church shortly after we got married, and and my wife's sister, Jody, was attending Beaver Creek Cumberland Presbyterian. So we started going to church with her. And first time I not only first time that I'd been in a Cumberland Presbyterian Church, I had not heard of Cumberland Presbyterians before then. I'd been to Presbyterian churches.
Ed:Mhmm. And had I've listened to thousands of hours of, RC Sproul and and folks like that. And and down through the years, regardless of where on my spiritual walk was, I've always enjoyed theology and and listening to discussions and, you know, in different directions on that matter. Yeah.
T.J.:Oh, Ed, let me let me speak over you for a minute. Apologize for doing so.
Ed:Oh, no. Sorry.
T.J.:But since your introduction to the Cumberland Presbyterian Church was in adulthood, Let's live here for a minute. Mhmm. You grew up in the Baptist church. You heard of Presbyterians. You weren't appalled by the performed tradition.
T.J.:No. But let's talk about the deep study of theology was appealing. But what other thoughts did you have about Presbyterianism? And then, of course, kinda your first impression at the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. I'm always fascinated by that.
T.J.:Whether it's good or ill, still, I think it's very telling about who we are as, this denomination.
Ed:It was definitely positive. I I enjoyed the the liturgy that we did not have in the Baptist church. And the number one thing is just grace, you know, the the message of grace. Not to say that you know, I went to Grace Baptist Church for a long time. So, yes, Baptist do believe in grace, but but, I mean, the the emphasis of god's grace and and that there were times and it's probably my own fault.
Ed:But before being in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, you know, I would walk out of a sermon feeling terrible. You know, no matter what I'm doing, it's not enough. No matter you know, just how many other ways you could say that one thing. Whatever I'm doing, it's not enough. And, yeah, that goes without saying.
Ed:And yet, you know, I was hearing that Sunday after Sunday after Sunday. And that's you know, go back and look at Sermon on the Mount. I mean, maybe Jesus was saying in a way the same thing. Here's what you're doing, but it's not enough. Let's expand it.
Ed:What you're doing is or here's what you're supposed to be doing, but even that's not enough. You know, I want your heart changed, not just doing it. And this is I realized that this is not making sense, but to me, it kinda just the Presbyterian approach and environment just seemed more of a heart based, grace based, and social based kind of place to be, and I like that. And when I say social, I'm not talking parties, You know, bring you know, or playing bingo. I'm I'm talking about a concern for, you know, those in the margins Mhmm.
Ed:You know, in society. That that kind of social. And just yeah. I'd really felt bad if I didn't catch that.
T.J.:With the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and your introduction to it through the, Beavercreek Cumberland Cumberland Church
Ed:Mhmm. When
T.J.:did you experience a renewal or a pulling to an old call to ministry.
Ed:Yeah. That's a a longer story, and I'll tell you what happened there. I was trying to think. I had some involvement in the church, but had not really thought about, you know, the call to preach since I had since college and changed directions there. My father got sick sometime before 2020.
Ed:He had dementia, Alzheimer's, just just some and some special extenuating or attenuating circumstances that made that just awful. And it was my failure to deal with that properly That ended up I think it was November 21, 2020. He died in April, but I'm telling you his death the the last day of April. His death just about killed me. I mean, I just he was my anchor.
Ed:I have never had anybody close to me pass like that, and it was just it was awful. Wasn't taking care of myself. I lost, like, £45. I had some major anxiety and depression, got to where my hands were shaking all the time. And I think I mentioned lost £45, so that was that wasn't good.
Ed:November 21, 2020, I had walked into my this office to get some a camera battery, and that's the last thing I remembered, picking up that battery. Apparently, I had turned around, walked out the door, down the hall. And by the time I got to the top of the steps, I had a seizure and fell down the stairs of my home and put a hole clean through underneath my lip where my chin is. Just just a hole. I mean, so there's blood and everything.
Ed:My my wife that I remembered hearing her screaming, and I woke up, and she said, don't move. And I'm trying to figure out. I have no idea what had happened. She called her brother-in-law, who's a police officer, lives in the neighborhood. He came over, helped me up.
Ed:They talked me into going to the doctor's office or the hospital, lifted me up, and I had another seizure and quit breathing. And according to brother-in-law, heart stopped. He did CPR until the ambulance got here, and I spent the next 2 weeks in the hospital. I had to have facial surgery. This is this is as good as it gets.
Ed:But but it was you know, while I was in the hospital before the surgery, and I remember I had my bible and then just a whole lot of thoughts going through my head, but still the the depression, the anxiety, and and had missed I've been off work on temporary disability. Mhmm. And the guy walks in, calls me off for X rays before surgery, brings me back, and he says, hey. Are you a preacher? And I said, well, no.
Ed:And I said, but that's my own fault. You know? And talked to him a little bit about that. And then he left, and turns out he had a complete set of homiletic commentary preacher's homiletic commentary. I can't remember the exact name.
Ed:And he said, I wanna give these to you. It was a huge crate, 30 something volumes. And so my wife's putting it in the back of her vehicle. And he said, who knows? You might need that.
Ed:You know, I'm laying there in the bed, and it was I mean, similar to, you know, the the feeling when I was 9. But, and I'm not saying you have to have an internal feeling, but I just almost I didn't hear an audible voice, but it was, I've never changed my mind, Ed. You know, the call is still there. Mhmm. And I'm getting tired of waiting.
Ed:And I mean, the minute it dawned on me that I I can do this. I need to do this. This is what I was supposed to do to begin with. I didn't. I'm not beating myself up over there.
Ed:It's a longer story. You don't have time. But and so the minute that I made that decision in my head, and I'm I lie not. I mean, I quit shaking. I mean, it's just it was a £1,000 off my shoulders and chest, and it was just this is what this is what I'm doing, and it's not for me.
Ed:Mhmm. You know, it's it's that's basically what came about. From that point on, I've been doing the things I needed to do to to get there.
T.J.:Ed, how did your family react to this affirmation of vocation?
Ed:Jury's still out. No. No. They've been very positive and supportive. Although it is, you know, to have a full time job, and and as you know, we adopted my wife's 5 year old great niece this year.
Ed:We've had her for 2 years, but so we've got there's a lot going on in this house. It's it's it's not slowing down and it's just we take it day by day.
T.J.:Yeah. You have a lot of moving parts. So you have a new well, not a new family member, but you have a family member living with you. Mhmm. And the joys that a young person brings into the household.
T.J.:The pitter patter of feet and the toys Mhmm. And, the energy in another voice, is wonderful and relearning the importance of chores and bath time and sleep time and what you eat. Mhmm. It's a great joy. And then the balance of becoming a student again and and full time work.
T.J.:You got a lot going on.
Ed:And preaching on Sunday.
T.J.:Yeah. Let's talk about that. So where are you filling in at?
Ed:It's, Heartland Worship Center in Lenoir City.
T.J.:Mhmm. Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
Ed:Yes. Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
T.J.:And are you a candidate or or a licentuate?
Ed:Licentuate.
T.J.:Alright. Well, let's talk about this new church home, the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. What is some of the great gifts you think this denomination has, and what are some areas that we have for improvement?
Ed:I knew that you asked this question to other folks. Mhmm. And I I really I feel like, you know, the new kid on the block. And I've and I've not been in a position where my ear has not been on the rail of the CPC to to have a feeling, like, oh, we're not doing this as well as we should or we should do this.
T.J.:That puts you in a wonderful place because you have fresh eyes. You're not multi, you know, ancestral, generational, Cumberland Presbyterian. You're a newbie to the denomination. So tell me what attracts you to the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. And just in terms of your worship and your service, where can we sharpen up our skills and mission?
T.J.:I'm really leading you on that second half, but go ahead.
Ed:You were, weren't you? That's alright. That's alright. No. I I don't as a denomination, I don't see anything that I would say is is being done wrong or improperly.
Ed:I'm not I like and when I talk about the denomination, I'm looking at, you know, the church where I'm preaching. I'm looking back at my home church of Beavercreek. And and, you know, I see people who who love the Lord, and who are putting that love into action outside of the walls of the church. Mhmm. And that's that is what it's all about.
Ed:I mean, it's not just, you know, the time we spend in worship. There's got to be there's got to be more. There's got to be the hands and feet of Jesus, you know, by the disciples, present day, to to usher in, expand, and and bring people into the kingdom of God, which is here and now, a real place. So, you know, I see that. I see common presbyterians as being a part of that and being involved with that.
Ed:As far as missions in the future, I mean, I can say that just based on casual observation, you know, the COVID pandemic hurt everybody. The church where I'm where I am on Sundays now, where I'm the was it the stated supply pastor? It's, the numbers have have dropped since the COVID epidemic, and I think that's common everywhere. You know, what do we do about that? You know, what direction do we take?
Ed:That's I don't have the answer. I know that I'm a firm believer in technology, and used it quite heavily for some other things during the pandemic. And and, of course, I've not been on I've not stepped foot on MTS campus once in 2 years since I've been a student. I'm not saying that bragging. I'd love to go out there, but it's just I am so thankful that I've had the opportunity to to do it the way I'm doing it.
Ed:You know? Because otherwise, I don't know what to do. You know? What do we do? How do we use technology to pull people together, to to train people up better.
Ed:And my attitude about I don't know if this is answering it or not. My attitude about what is my role or my place has changed over the years, you know, as a younger person in larger large churches. You know, it was important to go out and and try to bring people in. I mean, anyway, I have memories of those times and those efforts and campaigns. I see my role more right now is, you know, to feed those who are there, to to build disciples.
Ed:You know, the people that are there are there because they love Jesus, hopefully. You know, I and I know that the folks at the match church are. And they're there to learn more about him. What I don't want us to be, and this crosses my mind quite often, You know, I say I love Jesus, and I do. But how how often is that like someone who you know, how well do I know this person I love?
Ed:Is it truly Jesus that I love, or is it some vision or idea that I have about what I think Jesus is? So how do we know? You know, we've got to get into the gospels. We've got to look at what Jesus did. We've got to look at you know, how he interacted with people and and what that meant to those people he interacted with.
Ed:And is is I look at that? Am I in love with that kind of interaction, and can I do that today? And that's I see Cumberland Presbyterian's getting into that and doing that, and that's I wanna make sure that, you know, we're we're in it for the right reason and that we're growing.
T.J.:And it's a question for the ages, I think. I think it's a question that we raise individually or challenge to be raised individually, but I think for us corporately as a community to be able to ask and and seek those answers out together. And the reason I find that fascinating is because we're talking about a relationship and to find the nuances, discover the nuance, and to be open to the workings of the holy spirit for new or renewed revelations, you know, a renewed love for, biblical text that we've known since childhood through bible drills. I man, I find that those kinds of discoveries and that that that type of measure of growth Wonderful on an individual level, but also, I think, as as with people who are surrounded around me and us. Otherwise, what a stagnant community we would become.
T.J.:We already have all the answers, or at least we've had we've had the essentials knocked out and determined. And and, well, where's the growth in that? Where's the expiration? Where's where's the holy spirit in that? So I think that's a question that has been grappled with for the ages.
T.J.:And you're in the middle of it as you're preparing for the ministry, the word and the sacrament as a student. Have you enjoyed your educational process?
Ed:I had loved every every minute of it.
T.J.:I made it sound so, technical there.
Ed:You did. You did that.
T.J.:I didn't mean to. Are you enjoy are you enjoying your coursework, and are you are you being encouraged by it? I think is
Ed:Yes. Whatever Fantastic fantastic feedback. I haven't taken a class yet. Probably hope hope it don't, but I haven't taken a class yet where I haven't learned a lot of good stuff that I can continue to carry with me. And the each one of the professors that I've had are have been incredible.
Ed:I've had you know, I'm 62, so my approach now is a whole lot different than it was when I was in law school and and was scared to death. You know? I'm I'm not really scared or wasn't. That's it. But but I have been challenged greatly, and I like that.
Ed:Mhmm. And and I've learned a lot about myself that that, you know, things that need to be changed. And then when I realized that, well, I've done it again, I've done it again. You know, I just laugh at myself. And I thought, okay.
Ed:Yeah. I still need to change that amount maybe. But the last semester, I thought, this is this is hard. I'm doing 3 classes, working full time, and preaching. I said, I need to take something.
Ed:You know, they don't offer basket weaving, but I need to take something that's gonna be not quite as hard, you know, that I can just kinda skate through. So I thought, oh, I'll take Hebrew. I had Hebrew in college and can still read it and all that. So I thought that'll be easy.
T.J.:What made you think that?
Ed:I was wrong. I was bad wrong. I mean, it's not and it's not like Hebrews changed.
T.J.:You
Ed:know? Biblical Hebrew has not changed since I was in college, but I was in college a long time ago. And I I loved the class, but it was not I I didn't skate through it. So it was it was a challenge.
T.J.:Yeah. The language courses at graduate school, require, daily practice. Mhmm. Just to be able to pass the courses. Yeah.
T.J.:It's not a show up and read a book and then you're done.
Ed:No. Where were you before I signed up for my classes last week?
T.J.:Yeah. I would highly discourage it. I did. I took I took, 2 years of Hebrew and 2 years of the Greek. And it was.
T.J.:They were daily work. You said something earlier about, scared, you know, in your first go around with school. You know what? I never considered this before, Ed, but I would think if I was following the path of law school or medical school and I'm sure there are other fields. But I never really thought of it being fearful, but there is that fear of failure.
Ed:That's the fear I was talking about.
T.J.:Yeah. You retain this information, memorize it, and then give it back to me, you know, through an exam. Mhmm. That's a lot of information. And then the information, it isn't just retaining it for the exam.
T.J.:It's now and forevermore or at least know where you found it to reference back to it because you'll yeah, I would absolutely, fear of failure. Be like, how can you remember all those court cases from the 1800, 1900, and where to even begin to reference them?
Ed:Gives me a it gave me a new appreciation for or an enhanced fear of people in the medical profession. Mhmm. Of course, they go they go to school longer, I guess, but but that's an awful lot of material to remember.
T.J.:Yeah.
Ed:And if you ask me now to to recite to you everything I remember from law school, If if if my doctor had the same success rate that I would have, I wouldn't be very concerned.
T.J.:Ed, you shared with me that, you enjoy writing and you've also written some poetry. I wanted to share a little, of a poem that you shared with me. The title of it is Ode to the Kingdom. And I'm not gonna read the whole thing, but just this one part that stuck out to me. It says no borders, no fences, nor walls to exclude.
T.J.:In the world's eyes, no treasures to pillage. Presence of god found when gathered but 2. Its inhabitants formed in god's image. One of the reasons why I like this one is it broke some of the some of the other poems that you shared in the book. It it broke a rhythm.
T.J.:This one didn't necessarily rhyme. What helps get you into the frame of mind to write? And especially to write kind of in a free form in this way.
Ed:Stress. I mean, it's it's a it's kind of a peaceful something that I do to try to regain peace. But, typically, it it's just the one phrase will hit my head and then start bouncing around. Mhmm. And then so I'll sit down and and write that one down.
Ed:And then if it I found that if I try to force myself to write something that's that never comes out the way I want it to. But but if I let it start, you know, and then kind of play with that one sentence for a minute or 2, and and then, you know, take a break and start doing the counting, you know, the iambic, whatever, contaminant. I mean, I don't I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to make sure it's perfect, but I I try to put a little effort into it. And, you know, I'm a big fan of poetry from I don't know if that would be the 19th, 18th century, or whatever, but I'm not as huge a fan of poetry that doesn't have a meter that you know, a regular meter and and rhymes, and that's just me. I mean, I'm not saying that's not good poetry.
Ed:That is. It's just like judging art. I'm not judging yet, but that kind of poetry is judging me. But but that that's kinda how I get started. And then like everything else, you can ask my wife, sermons I write, papers I do for school.
Ed:You know, my poetry is never complete. It won't be until I'm dead and can't make a change anymore. But, yeah, it's always something I'll go back to.
T.J.:So you'll go back to a a poem that you've written already written and is, like, in in my eye is complete. Mhmm. And you'll go back and tinker on it.
Ed:I have. Yes. Often.
T.J.:So there's really not a moment of satisfaction with a poem.
Ed:Oh, I'm satisfied at that moment, and then something comes along in my head that says, you know what? That'd be a little bit better if you did so. There's there's satisfaction, but it's it's temporary satisfaction, I guess.
T.J.:That's interesting. I was thinking about this yesterday. I'm not a poet, but I kinda like when I finish a project or a writing or a sermon, then it's behind me, and I'm looking forward to the next thing. And I was still on a coworker. It was kind of like driving.
T.J.:I'm not a big fan of having to turn around. So I feel like at some point, I have to just let it go, whether it's a writing or a sermon or whatever it is. Mhmm. Otherwise, I will carry it with me forever, and I'll never be able to to share it. So, yeah, there's stuff that I've put out there that I haven't looked at again, because I'm different.
T.J.:I'm a different person than I was in the time of that writing.
Ed:Reason to do it again. You know, probably, well,
T.J.:maybe maybe. I'm also very critical, self critical. And I'll if I went back, I'd be like, what were you thinking? What where were you going with this?
Ed:I I could tell you I did the same thing with my photography. I do I've taken pictures for years. We've talked about it some, and Mhmm. And I I like to do wildlife photography, and and they'll be for me, it's the new fishing. I mean, I used to fish all the time for you know, just to kinda chill and and relax.
Ed:And there's a whole lot of similarities, especially like taking pictures of hummingbirds. I put the feeder out there, then get my camera gear ready and just sit down, and then I'll wait. Wait for them to show up, you know, take take some shots, then I got another 10 or 15 minutes to wait till they show up again. Do it again, and then make some major changes on the settings to see if this will look better than the last. You know?
Ed:So it's kinda like fishing, but I'll go back to pictures I took 10 years ago and reprocess them with tools that I have now that I didn't have back then to get a different look. And I did wanna mention this, and and you're pretty soon I'd like to go pick up my my little 5 year old from preschool. But one of the things I like to do right now in photography is and I figured it had a term, so I looked it up last night. The term I found was background isolation, which really is not a good term for it because you're not really isolating the background. You're isolating the subject, and you're getting rid of the background.
Ed:But I'll, like, take a picture of a hummingbird, and then I've got an app that'll do this for me. You know, you get rid of everything but that bird, and then you work on that subject to get it looking the way you want. And then over the past week or so, I've done a series of different hummingbird shots, and I think I've got I'm up to 41 individual photographs of a single or 2. I think one of them actually has 2 in it or 2 of hummingbirds, and the background is all white. And I like doing that because it puts your focus on the main subject.
Ed:You're not distracted. And for me, the Christian life and the Christian ministry, I want to be looking at it the same way that I want to isolate the subject that I need to keep my focus on, which is Christ. And all of that background, all those trees, the vines, the power lines, the fences, the neighbors, you know, Just move all of that away so it's not getting in the way of me looking at that subject of the photograph. So, I mean, the the the comparison just came to me, like, yesterday thinking about that. And I thought, well, that's exactly the way that I I want to approach ministry, want to approach life, and and just hope that's the way that I can do it.
T.J.:Ed, thank you very much for sharing your faith journey. Thank you for giving me a better insight into the the world of law and the careers that are involved there, but also giving me of your time to talk about how god works on us wherever we are at whatever stage of life we're in. Ed, blessings to you as you're preparing for ministry, and you're already doing ministry there at Heartsong. So thank you, Ed.
Ed:Thank you, TJ. This has been quite enjoyable.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this episode of the Cumberland Road. Please share this podcast with others so they too can hear how God is working in amazing ways. In closing, let me share a quote from Bertrand Russell. A way of life cannot be successful so long as it is a mere intellectual conviction. It must be deeply felt, deeply believed, dominant even in dreams.
