Freddy & Lyvia Rincon - God Has A Sense Of Humor
Exploring faith journeys and sharing inspiring TJ Malinoski. Today's conversation is with reverends Freddy and Lyvia Rincon. They are serving as co ministers at the Agape Cumberland Presbyterian Church in El Paso, Texas. In our conversation, we talk about how they first met, and how, at first impression, neither really cared for the other. Yet, over time, a bond between them grew, and they attribute their relationship to God having a sense of humor. Freddy and Lyvia let me into their lives as they share the rawness of the death of their first child. Lyvia says of this time that it is in the darkest moments that you truly do feel the Holy Spirit carrying you through. It was while their daughter was in the hospital that they felt the affirmation of God's call into ministry. We talk about what it is like to start a new church, what evangelism in El Paso looks like for them. We talk about church recovery from the pandemic, raising 3 children 8 years apart, and how God has a sense of humor all along. You are listening to the Cumberland Road Podcast and here is my conversation with Freddy and Lyvia Rincon.
T.J.:Freddy, Lyvia, what a pleasure it is to have you on the Cumberland Road podcast.
Freddy:Thank you for having us.
T.J.:So how does it feel to be relatively new parents and also be part of a newly organized Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
Lyvia:It feels like God has a sense of humor, That God would allow us to be new parents at our age and allow us to finally see our our shirt be constituted and, you know, both occurring at the same time. So I I see god's sense of humor in it.
T.J.:Absolutely. Okay. So let's start with the parent part just for a minute. So you you have beautiful children, and you have a new one now in your life. And what wisdom do you bring as parents of multiple children to this newest one?
T.J.:Or is everybody in the household kind of parenting the youngest?
Lyvia:You know, everybody's very, involved with her. But having our all our children are 8 years apart. I don't know if you know that. We didn't plan it that way,
Freddy:but humor.
Lyvia:Yes. That's the way that it occurred. And because of that, I think it has allowed us to connect to different generations of of parents with our children. But it also has allowed Aviana, to have a bigger family of generations taking care and watching after her. So she's becoming a very fast learner.
Lyvia:Thanks to all the mentors that she has surrounding her.
T.J.:Well, I'm asking because our 2 children are 12 years apart. So and I can relate. And so it does. It opens up a whole new world, and you start spreading them out like 8, 12 years apart. You have to learn how to be a parent again.
T.J.:And they teach you well, and they teach you different methods. And I just wanted your your insights on that of, like, what children bring to the relationship and to the family aspect, and also what they bring to ministry as well, which is pretty amazing.
Lyvia:Yes. I feel smarter. I feel a lot smarter now. I'm not gonna dip the I I feel sorry for our firstborn, our guinea pig. But like you say, I I I do feel that each child that was born in its time also had a a special message from god to
Freddy:us. Mhmm.
Lyvia:And, I feel Aviana has really been to us, that lesson of god being faithful to answer his people's prayer. Mhmm. That that's the lesson that we've learned with Aviana, in in our ministry. Go ahead, babe.
Freddy:I just, I praise God because she's our our princess. We have 3 boys, and she's the the cherry on the top.
T.J.:So she's,
Freddy:I'm happy to say that she's daddy's girl. And, I've been enjoying her so much. She, every time we pray for our meal or anything like that, she she, we say amen and she claps and she says, yay. So she's excited about it. So it's just been, amazing.
Freddy:A joyful journey to to have her with us and it's a very fun age. She's entering her terrible twos that we are excited about, but I think it's it's it's just fun. Every morning we look up to to see what she's gonna do today. So
T.J.:And she's she will always be outnumbered Yes. In your household. So you could almost do tag teaming if necessary.
Lyvia:Yes. If necessary.
T.J.:Well, again, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. And you have another celebration as well in terms of your ministry, and I'm jumping way ahead. We're we're just gonna go back and forth in our conversation. Is just 2 months ago, 6, 7 weeks ago, the congregation that you're serving is now a new organized Cumberland Presbyterian Church back in February. And you 2 were the church planters, out in El Paso, Texas and have watched this congregation grow and prepare and has already been doing ministry in the community.
T.J.:But let let's talk about that celebration just for a few minutes and and what that means. What does it feel like also for ministers of the gospel leading a group into organization?
Freddy:Well, it's been a very long process. We started back in in 2004, after our daughter, passed away, at her funeral service, we had so many friends and family come and be part of that funeral service. And so they were shocked to see that even though it was our daughter who passed away, there was joy in our in our faces. She was 6 months old when she passed away, and so they were like, Why are you so joyful? You know, your daughter has passed away because we we knew that she was in heaven.
Freddy:We rejoiced, enjoyed having her for the 6 months of life that God had given us her to us, and then, to see that that funeral service were the very first contacts that started our ministry. So, they were this puzzle, like, why can how is it that you guys have so much joy? And I don't see you broken and and so forth, even though we were, but, just the joy that the Lord provided for us to to just have met her and have her be part of our our life for so so long was was beautiful.
Lyvia:I I feel like turning the page to a new chapter in February was very significant to us, because of, like, what Freddie was saying, you know, seeing these people who started with us in in 2004 still be community with us, still journeying with us, and still hanging on to God's promises even though when we didn't see that, it was gonna occur, sometimes in the middle of doubts of are we actually gonna be organized? Are we not gonna be organized? And them hanging on until they saw this journey fulfill, really means to us as pastors a lot because we see their faces glow with joy as they see this moment come alive, finally. Finally, their prayers have been answered. And and that that meant meant a lot to us to see their faces and see and see.
Lyvia:God is faithful. You know? I know it was a long journey, but god was faithful in completing the work that he started with us. And
Freddy:Years have gone by. We've, felt that we've been, met with many challenge years. We've we've felt like we've had to to jump so many loops and do so many things to get to this, to this point of our lives. But, we we do want to reach out and be thankful to God. He he got us here.
Freddy:He called us. We wanna be thankful to our presbytery, presbytery del Cristo, and, to our denomination, our especially our our missions ministry team who journeyed with us and encouraged us in those difficult times of need. So, it's, I I can say that it's our accomplishment and not just my wife and and and mine. So it's a it's a it's a group thing that that got us to where we are at today. So so I wanna express that gratitude to you to all of you.
T.J.:Yeah. I imagine it it really is a family effort, in terms of moving Agape along organization to make that message and that ministry as strong as possible in in the El, El Paso community?
Lyvia:Yeah. I I think without that mentorship, Agape wouldn't be who they are now. Mhmm. Without the mentorship of missions ministry team and our presbytery, Agape would not be, where they are now. Agape was shaped in ways and forms that probably they didn't expect but the journey was worth it was worth the wait.
Lyvia:It was worth the journey. It was worth the tears because it's gotten them to to where they're they are at. So like I say, seeing my members' faces just glow with joy. Like, this journey was very painful but very worth. The labor pains were very real.
Lyvia:Yeah. But but very worth the wait. God's timing is perfect. Why god decided to constitute us in the midst of a pandemic? I don't know.
Lyvia:Like I say, god has a sense of humor.
Freddy:Right.
Lyvia:But the wait was very worthwhile for for for our church for our church. Thank you.
T.J.:You know, one of the early questions that I like asking the guest is recalling a meaningful experience with God. If you're comfortable, sharing with me the the death of your child back in 2004, And I'm not saying that was a meaningful experience with god, but, you know, I've known you guys over the years, and I have to admit, I don't know the complete story and how that has impacted your faith and how that helps your ministry today. So if that's a area that you feel comfortable in discussing and sharing, I'd be glad to listen.
Lyvia:So I think, very early on, we learned that our faith cannot be based on emotions. Emotions are very important. But if we would have based ourselves on emotion or reason, we would have missed out on a lot of the blessings that God had in store for us. And so one of those, emotions was the death of our daughter. We we could have made a decision to ignore that people really wanted to know how is it that we were holding up.
Lyvia:They really wanted they were truly interested and invested in knowing how is it that we would continue marching forward when them themselves were not experiencing peace in their life? How is it that we were able to demonstrate an abundance of peace in the midst of a lot of injustice? Because what happened to our daughter was unjust. What happened to me was medical negligence. And our family had invested a lot of time to get her to where she needed it.
Lyvia:And if it hadn't been for that is incident, you know, she she would have been here with us. But we felt that we really needed to meet the needs of the people at that time, and that we couldn't let go of this opportunity that god was using to minister to these people who in their doubts and disbelief needed to be ministered to. If I if we would have allowed our emotions to take over, we we would have just simply ignored ignored that. But I think God gave us eyes and a heart to see that these people really want it and needed to know where what is this fountain of peace? Where does it come from?
Lyvia:How can I have that fountain of peace? And so we we truly felt called during that funeral to start ministering to these people and in the midst of our pain. And and and and we found out that God healed and ministered to us as we were minister ministering to them.
Freddy:Let me go back a little bit. Our daughter was born with a hypoplastic heart. It means she was born with half a heart. She was born with 2 chambers. So, we found out, you know, with the doctor's appointments, and so ultimately, we had to move to Dallas because that's the only place where they they performed that surgery.
Freddy:So we had to leave our church. We had to leave our family, our community, and we moved to Dallas, Texas. We were up there for about a year. And, so my wife gave birth at that hospital, Children's Medical Center in Dallas. And so when she was born, she went through a several series of operations.
Freddy:And so 6 months well, five and a half months went by, and, we were sent out to a, rehabilitation place. And so in there, when it was a few days before we were about to be sent home,
Lyvia:Sent home to El Paso. We were gonna be thrown back to El
Freddy:Paso. Back to El Paso, an incident happened. An occupational nurse, accidentally pulled our daughter's trach out, and, she went into cardiac arrest. And, so that's that's what caused our daughter's death. So and that, she was our daughter was born on March 18, 2003, and she passed away in September 18, 2000 3.
Lyvia:Well, the first time our mother church here in El Paso gets to see our baby is at that funeral. So everybody's first time of seeing our baby was at at that funeral. They hadn't seen her because of the heart surgeries that she needed to have in in Dallas. And in that funeral, like I said, there was a lot of people, who were on Christian people who could not not understand. People from Freddie's Walmart, you know, that he was a vivocational pastor.
Lyvia:A lot of people from Walmart who could not understand how Freddie was, being able to handle the situation like that. So our first contacts were from that funeral and they were from Walmart.
T.J.:Well, to help others, you know, I I would think the natural response as as a parent would be, you know, maybe anger and and definitely, of course, the loss, and and looking in the future as well of of, missed opportunities and things. So I I can understand for those that circled around you wondering, you know, why there wasn't more, I think you'd mentioned an emotional response, but you also mentioned something about the well. So the the the digging deeper into the well, where did you find that peace? How would you describe that to not only a a Christian, but also to someone who isn't connected to the faith when it the world is becoming shattered and chaotic in such a way that maybe only parents can know what kept you grounded, and how would you articulate that to anyone able to hear?
Lyvia:I think we, were so thankful that the Lord had saved us. And that not only that he did he save us, but that he sent the Holy Spirit to live in us and to be our counselor. And during that time of the funeral and my daughter's death, we constantly thought, what about those parents that we saw in the hospital lose their children who do not know Christ, who do not have the counselor as their comforter, who do not have the holy holy spirit to guide them and to take them through this very dark time. So that time of losing our daughter also became a time of us really, being in relationship with the holy spirit to to find healing and comfort and really the affirmation of God's word of I've I will not forsake you or abandon you came to life during those times. It's during those darkest moments that you truly do feel the holy spirit carrying you through those moments.
Lyvia:So I praise the Lord for the Trinity. I praise the Lord that the 3rd person of the trinity abides in us, in our family, to guide us through those tough times. Without the Holy Spirit, we wouldn't have made it through.
T.J.:Yeah. The mysterious workings of the holy spirit. Freddie, did you want to share as well?
Freddy:I think our faith has became strong. My wife and I, we met at church, and as time went by, as we got married, we ministered together and we served the Lord together. We were so active in the church together and it just strengthened our faith. And, when our daughter, was at the hospital, for some reason the Lord had a purpose, for her life. As she was in the hospital we were able to minister to the other families who had their children there and there are many Spanish speaking families who who would come and knock at our door and and ask for prayer, ask for guidance, ask for, some spiritual support.
Freddy:And, once again, it goes back to the holy spirit, working in us and using us to to minister to those other families who who I mean, I'm sure that the the hospital had their chaplains and so forth, but that they would come and knock at our door and and ask for for help, not knowing that we were going through a a similar circumstance that they had faced. So it was just the the presence of the Holy Spirit been there, the power of the Holy Spirit, the anointing, the Holy Spirit equipping us that, that we will be able to serve others in in in the midst of our need and our our challenge.
Lyvia:And and that's very important because it's during that time of my daughter's, hospitalization and and and death that God continues to affirm that call. Because we we didn't have we didn't have a a mission or a new church development. But somehow or another, the Lord kept on tugging at our heart hearts to you're going through this, but minister to this family. You're going through this, but pay attention to this, especially because of lack of translators and and and the language barrier that that that is. That played a very important role in our ministry at the hospital because there's just a lot of lack of of translation.
Lyvia:And so, like Freddie says, I think during that time we were in the hospital, it's not only was our matrimony strengthened, our faith strengthened, but I think it was an affirmation of the call that the lord was already giving us. You're gonna go and minister to these broken families that are going through very similar challenges as you are, and you're gonna guide them through. So it was a kind of a prelude of what was about to happen here in El Paso in our ministry.
T.J.:Interesting. So in It
Freddy:was our boot camp.
Lyvia:It was our boot camp training, basically. The Lord took us out of our peso and took us to that boot camp over there in in that hospital.
T.J.:But yeah. So prior prior to that, you guys were just very active in Mhmm. In the local church, Maranatha.
Lyvia:Yes.
T.J.:And just very active. But had you thought about as a couple or individually the calling to the word and the sacraments? Or did this come after this great, loss in in your life and in your family?
Lyvia:I think there was always, not always. We always had a heart for people. We just didn't know that it was gonna turn into, like, you say the word and sacraments. And then special, only for me as a woman as I had shared early 1 in an I I had shared with you earlier. I felt that as a woman, I I I couldn't be a minister.
Lyvia:So I fought god on that, but his tugging continued in the hospital, in the funeral. Call. To the call.
T.J.:Well, you know, thank you for sharing because I've known the 2 of you for a little while, but this is a conversation that we've we've never had. And I appreciate you sharing it with me and and for others to hear as well. Freddy, Livia, are there other experiences, meaningful experiences that you would like to share? Something has happened recently or any time of your life?
Freddy:I guess there's one in my life that before I became a pastor, I guess I was back in maybe my sophomore, junior year in high school. Our church would, once a month, our church, our youth group would gather with other local youth groups in El Paso. And once a month, we would go to different churches. And, I remember this one time that we had a gathering, it was, I believe Chaparral, New Mexico. It was real close to El Paso, and so we had a they had a guest speaker, they had a preacher, they had a worship ministry band, and, for some reason he was preaching about calling.
Freddy:And I remember that day that he preached about it and something really tugged at my heart. No. You know, it was full of teenagers everywhere. And, you know, I was young, and I just remember that the Lord was, chugging. And, for some reason, I started sobbing in front of everybody.
Freddy:And it really I think that was the day that I knew that the Lord was calling me to be a minister. And, to break down in front of all these teenagers and everything is is really like, what happened? So that's that's a very memorable moment in my life.
T.J.:Mhmm. Olivia? And I'm not putting you on the spot. If if you don't have one, that's okay.
Lyvia:My my, my my greatest experience with the with the Lord was my first Easter. My first Easter, as I mentioned, you know, I grew up in an atheist home, where, you know, the name of Jesus was never mentioned. There was not a cross in my home. I didn't know what prayer was. And as I started working, for for Winton and Associates, my supervisor invites me to an Easter service, I felt obligated to go because I wanna please her.
Lyvia:I wanna do what she says. So I go. And this was a 6 AM service for me who never went to church on Easter Sunday. And and being there for the first time and listening to the gospel was mind blowing to me. I didn't understand how God, can take me and forgive me and give me a new name and give me new garments and give me a new perspective in life.
Lyvia:I couldn't understand that.
Freddy:Let let me
T.J.:let me interject just for a moment. Let let's pause kinda here. So when you heard that for the first time, did you believe it, or did it sound just too fantastic?
Lyvia:No. I believed it. There was there was a quick, and you can ask because Freddie and I didn't get along. You guys don't know that story, but we didn't get along. That first day when I went into church, he thought I was arrogant.
Lyvia:No. But he didn't like me. I I it was a really bad first impression for him about me. Okay.
T.J.:So But
Lyvia:anyway, I am there.
T.J.:The the church that you attend, Easter service, is the church that Freddie is
Lyvia:at? Yes.
Freddy:Okay. I'm not there.
Lyvia:Yes. We meet for the first time and not very good first impression for him, but, you know, I'm not there for him. I'm there I'm there for for God. I I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I couldn't believe that god would take my sins and and throw them into the deepest parts of the ocean and forget about them and give me a new life.
Lyvia:I could not believe that. It was like I wasn't seeking for God that day, but god seeked me that morning and took away the blindfolds from my eyes. And I was finally able to see the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ. And so that was amazing to me. I couldn't I couldn't believe that.
Lyvia:How someone could love me just as I am, even though I had been the worst sinner, even though I was unworthy. I couldn't. And you know what? It took me a while to forgive myself. Even though I knew that Jesus had forgiven me, it took me a while to really process, that God had forgiven me because I couldn't forgive myself for the things that I had done in my youth.
T.J.:So how did that change, that transformation affect your relationships at work and with your friends and with your family? What does that do?
Lyvia:You're probably not gonna wanna hear this, but I lost my family when I came to Christ. You would think that they would be happy to see me come to Christ, but they were not happy. They didn't like the change that they saw in me. They didn't like the fact that I suddenly become this this person that went to church when we normally had other family activities going on on over the weekend. They didn't like it that I would prioritize god, and the plans that God had for me over other activities that I felt had no no use for me anymore.
Lyvia:So they they they didn't appreciate that. I lost my worldly friends. I lost my worldly friends. But God gave me a new family. And I know this is not this doesn't happen to everybody.
Lyvia:But it did I I did I feel I feel I lost everything. But God gave me everything new, including new friends and a new community. And so I didn't feel And Freddie. Yes. And Freddie.
Lyvia:Well, that came later because we didn't like each other. We we didn't get a lot.
Freddy:Opposites is right. Yeah.
T.J.:Well, I wanna ask how
Lyvia:But can you add on? I'm sorry.
T.J.:Please. Go ahead.
Lyvia:My mother came to Christ. She did come to Christ after, you know, family members did come to Christ after Okay. Years. Okay?
T.J.:Yeah. That's what I was gonna ask was, you know, okay. You know, where are things now, you know, that years have passed? And and so okay. I I was just curious if
Lyvia:Yes.
T.J.:You know, having that opportunity to connect again with your family and maybe some of your friends as well. Yes. People change just like you did. So, yeah, if you don't mind, let's kinda live in the area of how, since you brought it up, how the first impression of Freddie, Olivia, Olivia and Freddie, and then how you came, to be, in relationship.
Lyvia:Oh, you wanna hear that story? You wanna go first?
Freddy:Well, that first Easter Sunday that Livia came to church, she was, I guess, like Livia said, I I thought she was arrogant. She was different. She was new. So her, I guess, her her presence, going up to church just to grab their grabbed everybody's attention. So I thought she was like, no.
Freddy:She's gonna be arrogant and all that. And, she didn't like me. I was a church drummer. I was one of the worship ministers. So so she she thought I was, you know, like, I guess the word would be cocky.
Freddy:And, Tsuchi didn't appreciate that about me, so we we didn't like each other. Time went by. We continued to go to the church. We were both very active in the church. And, so the the pastor started making us work together.
Freddy:So we would go make church visits together. We would go, do youth group activities together.
Lyvia:Clowns.
Freddy:We we had a clown ministry that we need to work together. All that time together kind of like started, drawing us together and being interested in each other. And, we we understood that even though we were so different, we had so many things in common when it came to the Lord. And that's what attracted, both of us to each other. And, 8 months well, we started dating, and 8 month 8 months later, we got married.
Freddy:So
T.J.:Alright.
Lyvia:Yes. So, yeah, we're totally opposites. Totally opposites. But Christ binded us together.
T.J.:That's right. And now you are sharing and have been for years sharing a ministry together.
Lyvia:Yes. We complete each other. You know, you know our differences really make us a good team because we complete each other. So
T.J.:Well, looking looking back on the ministry that you've shared, but also your your faith, name some folks who have, who have influenced and made a positive impact on your ministry and and on your faith journey.
Lyvia:I wanna make emphasis again. It's not it's not people. It's teams. It's a team in the mission ministry team. It's a team at our presbytery del Cristo.
Lyvia:It's our team at our mother, church, which was Maranatha that shaped us, informed us, to be the pastors that we need to be. Without those teams, we wouldn't be the ministers that we are now. That's why I truly believe that it's important for for for people who are considering to church plant to really, humbly humbly accept the mentorship that the missions ministry team offers, that presbytery offers, and that, church who has gone through that offers because there's just a learning curve to church planting. And if you don't have all those resources around you, that's a poor group, it's just gonna be harder and more difficult.
T.J.:Yeah. And and you guys are living testimony of having those different support groups where, you know, Maranatha helped prepare you and and send you. And and then having others along the way. Cumberland Presbyterian, Lay, and Ordained. Some who were part of the path from the beginning, and others who kinda came and went, but added to your journey as well.
Lyvia:Yeah. So that's why I'm very, hesitant to name names because it's it was actually teams of people Yeah. Surrounding us. Surrounding our ministry.
T.J.:It's also a lot easier just to say teams of people.
Freddy:It's important to say that, as as the Bible says that
Lyvia:Give honor.
Freddy:Friends or brothers are made in adversity, and and we found so many individuals that it would be it would not be fair to to name names
Lyvia:Yes.
Freddy:Because, they've journeyed with us. They cried with us. They embraced us. They hugged us. They encouraged us.
Freddy:They they pushed us. They challenged us, and they they, they they helped us get to to where we are at now. And, I mean, without those teams, this might not been possible.
Lyvia:And and and it's very important to note this because church planting can feel like a very lonely place. But in reality, there's a team of people just waiting. Just waiting to to carry you through if you just surrender. Surrender and just open your arms to to those teams. So, yeah, I I think that's very important for the church planter to know that church planting can feel very lonely unless you accept the teams that can come and journey with you.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. So what ministries are you a part of now? And I've got kind of a twofold question, so that's part of it. But also if you could kinda answer, you guys knowing a little bit about your ministry in the community, how do you share the good news with those who are maybe, you know, young people and teenagers and young young adults?
T.J.:And how does that message change your approach change or does it for those who are middle aged adults and older adults that you come come across? And then the third part of this question is talk about the difference between an invitation to Christ and an invitation to church.
Freddy:I think it's a very hard question. To start off with, we live in El Paso, a border city with Juarez, Mexico. So we have a lot of Hispanic families here. We have a lot of military people because of Fort Bliss. So we have many Spanish speaking, families, and then we have our our English speaking families.
Freddy:So I guess in a way we were forced to become a bilingual ministry. So when we minister, we preach, we sing, we we worship everything we do bilingually, which has been a challenge. It's been a we we need to find a way to be able to reach out to to both languages and and for them to to feel comfortable. So it's it's that's one thing that we've been working on for our entire ministry. How can we get better at this?
Lyvia:How can we become better at breaking the language barrier, the cultural barrier, and even the generational barrier, which is what we encounter here in El Paso. And, you know, it it it's a it's a learning curve. We can never say, okay. We got it now. You know?
Lyvia:Then this pandemic came.
Freddy:Change that. Change our game plan.
Lyvia:It changed it changed our game plan, but we have to be open to to change. We have to be open to the changes that god brings to our ministry. And along with those changes in ministry comes the change of what you were saying, you know, how do you minister to to young people? How do you minister to the elderly? We have found here in El Paso that for some reason, young people wanna come back to God.
Lyvia:That this new generation has a longing for for Christ. That's what we have found in our community. We have found in our community that our young people are realizing that the temporary remedies remedies that this world, gives them are really not a solution. They're realizing that only God can be the remedy to their souls. They're slowly realizing that.
Lyvia:And so that encourages us, to continue, outreaching in the way we outreach is door to door. We've always done it that way because people are not gonna come to our church. We have to go to, we have to go to the broken people. We have to go to the people who need healing. That that is the way we get them, to come and visit our church.
Lyvia:We it's it's very rare that people will show up on their on their own here in this area. So we do door to door outreach.
T.J.:And and how often do you do that? That's why I kinda asked my question in the way that I did. I knew you guys have shared with me that you're very active in the community. So for those who don't know, kinda share what that looks like in a major city in the US in terms of going door to door and how often you do it and precautions that you take. And In the message that you bring, what does that look like?
Freddy:Well, our church motto is commitment, community, commission. Those are our our our that's our motto. And as we've done ministry, we've I guess I can say we have different communities. For example, we have our our neighborhoods around our church. There's a lot of apartment complex that we go door to door, and we just share the gospel.
Freddy:We invite them to our special events and let them know about Christ and let them know what church is doing and, if they need have any prayer requests or is there any any way that we could minister to them. So we do that. We go door to door. We used to do it on a weekly basis before pandemic, but then pandemic changed that. Our children being 8 years apart have allowed us to reach out and minister to their friends in school.
Freddy:And, you know, so we have people in high school, we have people in middle school, and then we have people in elementary that we can we connect. We we in in college. So we're able to, you know, talk to to our our children's, friends and their parents. And, it's just different ways that we are able to connect with others and and tell them about about Christ and and minister to them. So it's it's been, I guess, the Lord's sense of humor has has a purpose.
Freddy:So that's been
Lyvia:helpful. We've always told our church we can win the world. We cannot win the world for Christ if we're losing in our own backyards. And we take that commission, as pastor Freddie said, very seriously. We truly do feel as a church commission to win our backyard.
Lyvia:And win them by just knocking at the door and and like pastor Freddie was saying a simple, how can I pray for you? My name is just presenting yourself. And if they allow you, you share the gospel. You share it in 5 minutes. If if if they allow you those 5 minutes, you take that opportunity.
Lyvia:And if not, you just pray. You pray for their needs. And if they're interested in more, then you you know, we we set up we set up discipleship classes at in their homes that we go do once a week. That we have continued doing with the contacts that we have. Mhmm.
T.J.:Is this a ministry of just Freddie in Livia? Is this shared with Agape congregation? Are there people within the church who also go with you out into the community?
Lyvia:Yeah. The leadership and brave members who are not leadership, will accompany us. You should what we try to do is we always try to take someone that we can, equip. So I will take someone, and pastor Freddie, will take someone. We're going to in in twos and twos like the bible says.
Lyvia:In teams of 2 to equip each other. Of course, there's people that are hesitant. So, obviously, those people, we don't we don't wanna force. We want them to feel called to. But, yes, we form teams of 2 and and we head out.
Lyvia:And, and they usually do do it with joy. I think it's become such a normal thing for them that they don't see I know it might be strange to some churches that you go knock in people's doors, but it's not strange for us because I think we've it's always been part of our normal church life, you know, to go and present yourself.
T.J.:So the anxiety, maybe the fear, maybe the element of rudeness.
Freddy:I'm trying
T.J.:to think of what it'd be like in another person's mind. Yes. Those those, barriers, they're not barriers so much for the 2 of you and for the Agape church.
Freddy:No. We we go, and sometimes we are aware that we're gonna be rejected. We know that someone's gonna close the door in front of us. We know that someone's not gonna accept us.
Lyvia:Mhmm.
Freddy:They're gonna tell us to go away. But sometimes, we run into those individuals and, they have a different perspective. Like, they'll give us a chance and, we'll be able to pray for them. But, we we we know what what what is ahead and we know what the challenge is, but, we go in the name of Jesus Christ and we ask the Lord to to bear his fruit.
Lyvia:And sometimes relationships are formed out of those bad bad relationships. We had, we were we were we went to go knock on someone's door and we were kicked out of their house. And later that that person repented and came to the church and dropped off some donations, and we started building a relationship from there. So, you know, even those incidents have a purpose even though they're they're hurtful. So you never know.
Lyvia:You know? Like I say, god has a sense of humor.
T.J.:God does not I I was thinking
Lyvia:does not throw away any opportunity no matter what the opportunity looks like.
T.J.:Well, I was thinking of, the first impression that the 2 of you had of one another And when you were telling that part of the of of the story, I was like, oh, okay. Maybe there's a pattern here.
Lyvia:Yes.
T.J.:Do you ever go back? Let's say you get a closed door or maybe a rude response. Do you go back to that apartment? Do you go back to that house? Or do you just kinda leave it alone?
Lyvia:We do what the bible says. We shake off our feet and our shoes, and we continue to the next house. And maybe we'll come back a year later, but not immediately. We don't wanna seem overly, I don't know, like we're hovering
T.J.:over their homes are. Well, looking at the church, Livia, Freddie, what do you think the church is getting right in 2022? What do you think the church is missing?
Freddy:Wow. It's a very, very hard question. I think the church is I praise God for the different ways that we can share the gospel because even though the pandemic came around, we were able to start streaming and, you know, have services on YouTube and Facebook and Zoom. And, so we were able to share the gospel, not only locally, but Odessa, Texas. We have others who moved to to Odessa, Texas.
Freddy:We have others who moved to, Houston and, they're able to connect. They're to to reconnect to their church now and and be part of our worship service even though they're at a distance. So I think the Lord is using, you know, social media, especially these past 2 years, to to reach out to to the world and have them give them the opportunity to listen to the gospel and continue to enrich, their spiritual journey and and be able to continue to become spiritual mature even though they're not walking into that church?
Lyvia:I think what Freddie is trying to say is that the gospel gospel could not be shamed. I think the devil thought he was gonna be able to shame the gospel, but he wasn't able to. We have been able to use, like Freddie says, social media and other technologies to allow us to continue spreading the gospel even even more. I think what's missing now is that the dangers of the search of the church wanting to substitute that social media for actual community. That's the danger of wanting to continue to stay home when there's a church waiting for you, a local church waiting for you to come, and be present.
Lyvia:So, yeah, that that's that's the danger. That's I think we we need to understand that we were called, to we were called and safe to live as a community. And that through our love, our communities will come to Christ because of the way we love each other. And and we can't do that if everybody continues to stay home. We can't continue to show or demonstrate that love for each other if we're isolated believers.
Lyvia:And so we we can be in danger of losing testimony and witness to our communities if if we don't really make an effort to come to church, attend faithfully, and really make an effort to love one another so that that's a living testimony to our community outside.
T.J.:Yeah. The gift of technology is really changing how we define community, and it's bringing us wonderful opportunities and some challenges. And we'll have to work through those, I think, as communities of faith in in those in that redefining of what a community faith looks like and what it means to connect. So I welcome it. I welcome the gifts, and I welcome the challenges because we're not facing it alone.
T.J.:It will be us as a community of faith defining what that community of faith looks like. Freddie, were you gonna add to that?
Freddy:I was just this Sunday, we preached about sin, and, one of the 7 deadly sins is is sloth. Slothfulness. Sloth. Slothfulness. Laziness.
Freddy:And, I think this pandemic has created a lot of bad habits. And, you know, everybody wants to, you know, just kick back in their in their barclo launcher, their La Z Boy, and and worship the Lord, which was okay for a while, but I think the Lord is calling us to to come back, to, you know, congregate, be the body of Christ again. Our church is doing everything possible to to, you know, keep keep the community safe. You know, we're we're still obligating everybody to wear a mask, and germ x, and so forth, just to you know, that's the way we wanna love our neighbor. But, yeah, I think the lord is calling us to just come back.
Freddy:You know, it's time to to reunite as the body of Christ.
Lyvia:I think we also have made emphasis, to our church, that the time for camping that we had during this pandemic had its purpose in us filing healing and restoration and and being refreshed. But God never meant for us to stay, camping forever. God wants us to to continue hiking until we reach the summit. So once we have reached that campsite, which we did during that pandemic, and we refresh ourselves and we restore ourselves, we need to strive to keep hiking until we reach the summit. It's time to keep hiking.
Lyvia:It's not time to stop.
T.J.:This is when I know it can't be seen over the podcast, but Livia has her her serious face on as as you were saying that.
Lyvia:I'm sorry. It's time to to hike. Let's get away from the campsite. Yes. Get your water.
Lyvia:Get your food, get your energy up, and let's continue church. We need to keep hiking.
T.J.:We were talking before we started recording about, experiencing god and and seeing god in the present tense and the here and the now. So if we can take turns with these two questions, Livia, where are you experiencing? Where are you seeing god? Where are you feeling god working in your life today?
Lyvia:So I I just, I just finished telling you all about continuing hiking. To to us during this time as a couple, as pastors, it has been very important for us to to heal. And one of the ways that we do that is by we we do hike alike. And it's during those hiking moments, those mic hiking times that we often find ourselves, being able to listen to God more clearly. So I look forward to my weekends when I get to go walking and hiking and experiencing God more clearly without all the the the distractions.
Lyvia:I feel that through those those times that we got, God God has gone with us hiking. The Lord is teaching me that he is my peaceful ruler. That I don't have to be anxious. That I don't need to feel stressed out. That I just need to let him take over and govern my life.
Lyvia:And that he will do it peacefully. There's no need for me. And it's very hard for me because I'm a perfectionist. And when something cut off, I tend to lose it. So that has been an area that God has been wanting to work with in me for a long while, but it didn't occur until until this this pandemic and this hiking adventures that we have gone through, that the Lord has truly been able to show me, hey, this, hey, that.
Lyvia:You you can rest in me. I will take you through. I will finish the work that I I start in you. Just trust. Be at peace.
Lyvia:Let go of that. So, I'm learning to say no to anxiety. And it it takes a lot of work for me to do that. It's hard for me to let go. But the Lord is teaching me and showing me that he truly is a peaceful ruler, that he's capable of governing every area of my life with peace.
T.J.:While doing a physical exercise, you're also having a spiritual exercise, just that's repetitive of of letting go. It really resonates with me of, you know, that that level of, of anxiety, but that that seeking of the peace of mind. You know, that resting and assurance of especially things that are totally out of my control. That is definitely a spiritual daily spiritual exercise.
Freddy:Mhmm.
T.J.:Freddie, the same question for you. How and where are you seeing god and experiencing god working in your life today?
Freddy:I think the lord is, going through a process where he is, he's testing our faith. He's testing our trust. Especially this this pandemic, it's it's been such a difficult challenge. It's been hard and I know many churches have been severely affected by it. And, not to see the the normal average of attendees come to church and see that half of them are on the screen.
Freddy:Our prayers, Lord, bring them back. Bring them back. You know, let's let's get back to normal. Let's get back to normal. And, sometimes I think that the Lord is a he's he's testing our our our faith, our trust.
Freddy:He's working, well, in me, teaching me how to live by faith and not by sight, because, you know, what we see many times can be very deceiving, and it's just we need to learn how to trust the Lord. And I think that's the process that is going on with me at this point is just trust him. Do what you gotta do, you know, serve the Lord and and let him do the rest. And and, we need to understand that it's in his timing, not our timing. Even though we we want that timing to be now, it's it's about trust and faith in him.
Freddy:So I think that's that's the area that the Lord is working in me right now. Just, fix your eyes in Jesus and and wait on him.
T.J.:It's really awesome. You know, listening to the 2 of you, both of you are on a journey. You know? The spiritual exercise of the patients and and and following faith, you're both on a journey. I just find that fascinating, and because that's that's what we're conversing about today.
T.J.:It's been a pleasure to know the 2 of you over the years and be able to serve and and work with you. And I've really appreciated this opportunity to to hear pieces of your faith journey that I hadn't heard yet. And it's really an honor to be able to share it with others who are listening to this podcast. For those who are listening and they wanted to know more about you and to be a part of your ministry and support your ministry and to be a part of your lives, where do you wanna point people to?
Lyvia:You can go to our website. Our website is agapecpc.org. It's agapecpc.org.
T.J.:And worship service is in it's bilingual in English and in Spanish.
Lyvia:Yes. Yes. So we we preach simultaneously in English and Spanish, and our songs are bilingual.
T.J.:Well, thank you so much for being my friend, for being wonderful church planters and wonderful ministers to the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and to Agape Church in El Paso, Texas. Freddie, Livia, thank you so much.
Freddy:Thank you for having us, TJ.
Lyvia:Thank you for being our friend. Friends are born in adversity. Thank you, friend.
T.J.:So true. And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
