Gloria Diaz - The Biggest Gift From God Is The People Around Us
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. This is The Cumberland Road. I am your host, TJ Malinoski. Today's guest is Reverend Doctor. Gloria Diaz. Gloria is a Cumberland Presbyterian minister in Houston, Texas. For 11 years, she has served as a pastor for inmates residing in county jails, state prisons, federal institutions, and detention centers with the organization, New Day in Christ Ministries. In our conversation, Gloria talks about her ministry with inmates during and after their incarceration. Gloria shares some moments in her own life describing times where she was the little child asking the tough questions about religion and faith In her faith journey now, Gloria sees God moving in new and fresh expressions in the world, in the Church, and in ways beyond our imagination Amidst it all, one of the greatest gifts from God, she says, is the people around us. Enjoy and be enriched with today's journey on the Cumberland Road with Gloria Diaz.
T.J.:Thank you for joining me on the Cumberland Road. I thought we could start the conversation with this question. You are married to another minister, Freddie, who has also been a guest on this podcast. What is the greatest asset to being a clergy couple?
Gloria:Let me try to answer that question. When Freddie and I both were were ordained, we served in 2 separate congregations. So we were pastors in 2 separate congregations. Mhmm. And after, like, 2 years, Freddie and I discovered that we could join as a team and work in some areas of the ministry, not only for the benefit of the those 2 congregations, but for the, churches around the city, the geographical area we were.
Gloria:And we discovered we work, and we we were happy working. But I remember some elders of the congregations once got our attention saying that we seem to be competing each against other. And we look at it at at the chart and we say, no. We are just trying to make things very good, trying to do a very good job. We are, we want the work that we are committed to do be of very high quality.
Gloria:But that got up our attention, and we were trying to understand in what way we look that we were competing to each other when we were not doing that.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gloria:And one thing that we discovered is that to have 2 2 preachers living together is a little difficult because one can say, oh, but you said this, or you preach this. You are not doing that. Or reminding more not not not so much like being upset or calling the attention, more like reminding the other person. Oh, but you preach this. You say this.
Gloria:But in the case of Freddie and I, we have discovered that we are able to work as a team. Every every time, we can join our talents and ideas as a team and work on specific projects, and we have done that all our lives. So it has been a a great asset. The last project that we have been working is that, Frederi, as an associate pastor of the First Communal Presbyterian Church and and the one leading the worship service in Spanish, he came with this idea that instead of a sermon every Sunday, why don't we have a conversation? So instead of a monologue, directed to the audience, we just engage in conversation, and it it is the sermon, but in a more in a format of a conversation, and deliver it.
Gloria:And we discovered that we have had a lot of good. People say that it's much better, that it's easier to follow, that doesn't sound like one person raising the voice and telling the others how to do and what to do and and what to believe. But instead of that, it's like people trying to enter in that conversation
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gloria:And being part of the conversation. It has been a good a good it has been a good experience as a ministers, as a people, for the last 15 years. And I think for me that I seek to be married to an theologian. For the last 15 years, what we do is that every week, we have a 2 hour converse conversation. We just walk around the park or any place.
Gloria:And while we walk, we pick a news or a biblical text or a problem or a theological issue, and we just address that event theologically speaking? How is that how can we relate that to the bible, to the theology? How as a commonwealth presbyterians, we, with the structure that we have, how would address sometimes the issue or what are the options of how that event is different from different perspectives. And I think, at least for me, that weekly conversation has enriched a lot of my life, my ministry, and also the way I see the life. I would I would say that.
T.J.:Yeah. There there is something about taking complementary gifts and being able to put them together for the same mission and ministry. And being a clergy couple, that opportunity really gets elevated by by doing that. And, yeah, the household discussions and the accountability maybe looks different than it might in other settings because you have a similar educational background and a calling as well where your level of accountability is under the same roof as you.
Gloria:Yes. That's true.
T.J.:But also to have a partner who understands the joys and the difficulties of of ministry. And Yes. And
Gloria:the Yes. That's true. But also as a couple, let me say that we have discovered some laypeople around that become very supportive of of ministers. I I have really always, I have appreciated that because as you mentioned, sometimes ministers, have this big load with the needs of the congregation and problems and missions of the congregation. And I really appreciate when God sends my way I always say that way.
Gloria:God sends me, some individuals who helped in some way to receive that those moments.
T.J.:So what other gifts does Gloria have, and how are you using them in this wonderful world that we live in?
Gloria:Gifts.
T.J.:What what other what other vocation do you have that is a ministry?
Gloria:Well, what I do, I for the last 11 years, I have been pastoring people in jail, people incarcerated. They can be in jails, in third prisons, state prisons, or other detention centers. And I I I just if you ask me what is what I do, I would, summarize what my pastoral work with them in the sentence that my job is to help those individuals and their families to seek that with them.
T.J.:Mhmm. And
Gloria:that is my that's how I summarize my my job. What I do is to take resources like the encounter bible for adults from the Commonwealth Presbyterian. We receive the remains at the churches, and the denomination donate to us. And we send it to inmates, and they like to do that those Bible studies. And in the Spanish, I write monthly a newsletter for the people because we don't have materials in Spanish.
Gloria:So what I do is that I write monthly to them, and we have a prayer list, where I compile all the their prayer requests, and then I send all of them. They like that part because they feel that they are hurt in some way, that they matter for somebody. And my job is all is always reminded like, helping them to see some of them have a previous knowledge of God, and they attended churches at some point so they know something about God. Some of their mates come, to, to detention, and they really didn't like or didn't matter or nobody told them, nobody taught them, or they didn't want to go. And when they are in jail and they have so much time and they receive a devotional book or a bible, then they just start reading and start and they become interested in God.
Gloria:So in their relationship with God. My basically, my question for all of them is God is with you, God is loving you, God has taken care of you. Obviously, you are there, but God has taken care of you. How do you respond to God? How do you answer to God?
Gloria:How are you what are you going to say to God? And from there, I build relationships with them until they just leave.
T.J.:Do you work with multiple detention centers, and do you work with both men and women?
Gloria:Yes. We work with men and women. We receive requests of devotional books and materials from, all detentions where those materials are allowed to go in.
T.J.:Alright, Gloria. We you asked some great questions of of the inmates that you encounter. I have some questions for Gloria in terms of your faith journey.
Gloria:No. I'm the one in June.
T.J.:We've talked about being a clergy couple, and we've talked about, for a few minutes about your vocation and your calling for ministry right now. Looking across the span of your life, share with me a meaningful experience that you've had with God.
Gloria:Well, TJ, let me let me share one that it was, very transformative for me.
T.J.:Alright.
Gloria:I I grew up in a Christian family. I attended church. I I grew up asking tough questions to individuals, I suppose, making their lives miserable, and tough questions about God and about church and about Bible, those kind of questions. And I went to university, and I was happy that God was there with me. And I married.
Gloria:And at some point, when I married to Freddie, I expected to have children. But early in my marriage, I discovered that I had difficulties to have children. Freddie and I started our fertility treatment with good expectations. But sadly, I got pregnant, and we lost the first baby.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gloria:And that was cared for me. At that time, I was at seminary attending doing my master degree in theology and bible. And at at that time, when, we had these laws, I was able to discuss theology. I was able to white papers, to pray with the people. But in private, I I was so angry at God.
Gloria:I blame God. I I felt like God was laughing at me, and God was playing with me. And I just wanted to know why God was doing this to me, inflicting this kind of pain. And through that struggle, I think the mercy of God and the patience of people around me, I learned something new that at least what's new for me. And I discovered I knew always that Jesus Christ died for the people, Not for the sins of the people, but for people.
Gloria:But after this experience, I learned that every baby and, therefore, every person is a gift from God to their families, to the community, to the church, and to the world. So, after that experience, I started learning that the biggest gift from God to us is people around us. So I started when I grew up and I my idea of ministry when I was preaching, when I was preparing to preach, was that the doctrine was very important in the shape of the sermon, and and everything is important. I'm not saying that not. But for me, that was the center of ministry.
Gloria:But I think that led me go to that way to understand that, the the most valuable, the most the greatest asset for god is the people. So after that, I've been growing up that I I think I don't think that I understand everything It's that I am growing up in the fact that in in understanding that God loves the people and that God give us people and that every individual is a gift from God. So when we receive a new baby or we receive a new person coming to church or we meet a new person, that is a gift from God to us, at least to me. It has been like, that experience, producing me a great shift on on approaching me, mister Alexander.
T.J.:I think that changes the way we actually look at people in terms of the surface, whether it's skin tone or hair length, height, weight, all those different things that culture tells us that matters, looking in that way looks much deeper in terms of, well, this is my sister. This is my brother in Christ. And the heart, I know that's cliche, but, you know, the heart is what matters. It it it can make us look at humankind and humanity in a different way beyond that surface. So the things that we think are important, maybe they aren't quite as important.
Gloria:Yes. I am I am happy to see people. And if you ask me, when I see people, I see God at work.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gloria:And something that I have growing and seeing in people is that different individuals and different communities, like different of our congregation that have different talents. And they come with one great idea here, another great idea over there. And I am always amazed of seeing how God always equips the people to do things.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gloria:So we we were talking about engineering. Or when I see arts, I see God at work through them. Then I see you see all these great ideas that come, like, for instance, TJ Malinowski with the company wrote, Great idea. Great last. And I am always amazed of all these new projects even if they are small or big.
Gloria:And the same I see in our congregations. You go to one congregation, and you find their talents expressed in a way that are beautiful, that how this congregation is serving the people. Then you go to another congregation and you find another talents. And for me, that is exciting to see that how God is always creative, doing different things, not just repeating everything in the same way. It can be sometimes we are doing the same, but it's it looks fresh.
Gloria:It sounds fresh, and it sounds like that comes from that. So you can see the glimpse of that. So I I always I am always amazed with that.
T.J.:There's something that you said earlier made me think of the scriptures. I think it's in Matthew and Mark. I know it's in Mark. The the greatest commandment and Jesus is speaking with the scribe and and says, you know, love love God and love neighbor. Well, it says more than that, but that's the the gist of it.
T.J.:And, you know, these 2 Old Testament scriptures are brought together by Jesus. And I always walk away from that text thinking, you know, loving God comes first and then Jesus elevates the love of neighbor right up there next to it. And I was thinking about that when you're talking about, you know, the the love for humankind, the love for another human being, that, love your neighbor as yourself. It's pretty significant, Gloria. Thanks for sharing.
Gloria:Well, you're welcome. And I would add another text, that I like. It's Psalm 92. And at the end of the psalm, it says that the righteous that lives in the house of God, they even grow old, but they will be fresh all the time. And that is what I like to see in the people because I always have thought in fact, Psalm 90 2 was my thesis and my master's degree.
Gloria:So I did my thesis. I wrote my thesis from that Psalm, and I discovered that very God created us with this sense of, being growing all the time, discovering something new. And I I I always like to see what that is doing in different people because it's I see that when I see the people working in different areas. So so I I I like that. It's not like only young people do this or enjoying creativity or only elderly people retire can enjoy creativity.
Gloria:We can see it in our range of knowledges that people is creative at that time, And I think that it's it is God at work on them.
T.J.:So the movements of God can be found in the movements of humanity.
Gloria:Mhmm. Yes. That's true. That's a God summary.
T.J.:Speaking of movements of God, how and where do you find your purpose in your relationship with Jesus Christ?
Gloria:Well, we're just talking about, calling of the the calling of the ministry.
T.J.:We can. Or, you know, to what for you as a Christian, that center of being in a relationship with Jesus, how is it carried out in your everyday purpose?
Gloria:Well, TJ, that is a question that sounds like a confession. You know? In in in this time of my life, I discovered something that I grew up with, and it has been a constant in my life is that God is here with us.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gloria:And if God is with me. And when I was younger, I thought that I was a very good Christian. I was sure. But through through the years, I have been discovering that I would like to be more like Jesus than what I am really found that I am. But for me, what is more important is that God remains with us.
Gloria:So that remains with me. Even I if I don't see myself, like, growing so much like a Christian, like I would like to be, but the fact that God insists and persists and remains with us, for me, that is fascinating, and I know that I need to answer to God. And my answer always to God is, god, I know that I don't deserve it, but I am glad. I'm happy that you are here with me and that I am not alone. I don't have to do my life by myself.
Gloria:I don't have to have everything sorted in my life. I don't have to have, the great plan for my next 30 years of life because I know that you are with me, and I'm sure that God has better plans for me than my imagination. And so so that is my faith. That is my the way I approach everything. And when I feel that I cannot think in that way for for some reason, I'll always ask another minister like Freddie, or I ask my son sometimes.
Gloria:I want to hear that voice through him or other people in the church. And when I hear them, I can hear that God is there, that God is not that God disappear. That I do not perceive God, it doesn't mean that God disappear. So but being with the people and listen to the people who helped me all always helped me to always helped me to understand, and, like, to perceive God at work. God close.
Gloria:But, yes, I did not imagine my life without him. That that's true.
T.J.:When you mentioned Freddie, your husband Freddie, and your son Benjamin, in terms of discernment of knowing God and seeing God's movements. What other people do you look to and that, to help you in your faith journey?
Gloria:Well, historically in my life, I I would I have to mention my mom because she was the one trying to answer all my, doctrinal questions like a protein. And when I was teenager, and I felt the call of that to me is to, the missionary at that time, that it was Lynn Thomas, was the person who I relate very well talking about calling and calling talking about ministry and how how we struggle with with calling and and with ministry. So it was a very good conversation. Beyond Freddie, besides Freddie and and Benjamin, I have found others in my life. The missionary that we lost, the that was in in Guatemala.
Gloria:Panos, the hendino, was another one that at some time, we talk and we can, explore ministry. As a ministry, we we talk. I have found here as well some good good elder people who are leaders of the congregation that, that I I have found something new, fresh, special. I do not know if I can mention them. I didn't ask them for this, but I would say, some that are very good donors, have been a great example to me on doing ministry in a different way.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gloria:And people at the denomination, I read I think I appreciate all of you, TJ. All of you, the stated clerk of the denomination since he worked on on missions. I remember March, working on missions. Since that time, I remember. But to see you working and doing your job inspires me to continue doing what I have to do.
Gloria:Even what I have to do is not what you do because all the work you do at at the denominational level is is different. All my job working with people incarcerated and sometimes when they leave jail, they are not exactly the most valuable people in society, and we continue working with them. So so but but I I would say that I have found good pastors around us in the denomination and good leaders.
T.J.:I think it would have been easier for me to ask you, who hasn't impacted your faith journey? Because you covered everybody. You could have said, well, everybody but and then, you know. Gloria, you've been talking about seeking and finding god's movements among human beings, those close to you, and you're drawn to the the fresh expressions that god conveys through humanity. Where are you seeing god working in your own life today?
T.J.:And then the second part of the question is where do you see God in the world today?
Gloria:Uh-huh. In my life, I see I I see God making sure that I am not just settling in my state of relationship with God as I am right now. I perceive God challenging me continually. And and I was I was telling Freddie the other day when we are putting together our sermon slash conversation, I sometimes I notice that I I am not closer to be the image of God in this point. I'm not closer to that, and I perceive that like a challenge for me.
Gloria:Yes. A challenge to grow. I see God working in my family at this time. I see the blessings of God. I see, some of the members of my family going through some challenges at this time, but I I I can remind them that they are not alone, that that is within.
Gloria:And then they tell me what happened, and then I know, oh, god is there. That is that is a but I see god I I I think I see that more a challenger, to grow. And, like, no. You need to continue growing. You are not there yet, and I suppose I will never be.
Gloria:And so I I I don't have to to fulfill your goals. Like, this is the goal, goal 1, goal 2, goal 3. You know? It's like I'm walking with God where I can walk in the assurance that God is with me and God is is like, Gloria, you need to do this. You need to learn this.
Gloria:But that is always challenging. And I think that is life. I will say that is part of the life.
T.J.:Gloria, what would you share with somebody who who wants to grow closer to god and and yet finds themselves in those in those moment where maybe the growth isn't there or the struggles of life can be overbearing, how can they get to a place where you are now where you've been able to relax and be able to say, okay. This relationship is no longer goal oriented. It is where God picks me up in those moments where the growth isn't just fantastic and great.
Gloria:And that is a great question. My my first suggestion to any person who is so, drawn in in a life of goals and projects and ideas, and they don't seek God, but they think that they are doing for God. I would say, just rest, eat a good plate of meal that you like, and go to sleep. And after you sleep and have rested, then you'll be able you will be in a better place to try to, rethink what you are doing or how you are approaching life and let that to come to your life. And it can be to other people, to reading the Bible, to reading to watch in some program where, the person can start seeing that.
Gloria:But I believe what Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes. I mean, if you want to start a spiritual life, you can start with a good meal. Just sit, give thanks to God for your meal, and just eat it. Enjoy the taste. Enjoy the the how you feel the meal in your mouth and and give thanks to God.
T.J.:Wow. You've taken such a complex and troubling time of somebody's life and their relationships. And you've simplified it to the point, hey, get you a nice meal, rest, contemplate, reflect on the next day, and be open. And those are who knew those could be so easy and so hard at the same time? But Yeah.
T.J.:Wonderful. Thank you, Gloria.
Gloria:DJ, that that has been my experience. You we we as a human beings tend to be to make sometimes easier things to complicate. Mhmm. And we transform it then in a very complex, issues. But sometimes we look at God, you notice that God says, like, sit and listen to me.
Gloria:So we we think that we need to do a lot of things all the time, but we need to be very busy. But sometimes, god is saying, no. Just sit and look that I am calm.
T.J.:Alright. I'll keep that in mind the next time, and I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna see if that works.
Gloria:Let's see. It's a suggestion.
T.J.:Gloria, you were talking earlier about challenges and challenges of life, the church that we are a part of, the universal church, throughout history has faced its challenges. So speaking of the church, knowing that it faces challenges today from poverty to doctrine issues to numerical growth. What hopes, ideas, and dreams do you have for the church universal and for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
Gloria:TJ, I see I see our church. I see that the church has done a great job and continue doing a great job in in giving and being generous and trying to support the people with their needs with their material needs. I think that we are in the position to continue preaching the gospel and sharing the love of God, not only with those actions, but also with the works, like giving the people the opportunity not only to receive the generosity of the congregation, but also telling them, you have the opportunity to, come with us and give thanks to God and worship God together because God has been good, and God always will be good to you. So I see that the church is in a good position to do that. And as by definition, the church is God dwelling with God's people.
Gloria:I think for us as a church, we have already the doors open to extend that invitation to any person who wants to come to God.
T.J.:Gloria, how can we continue to follow you on your faith journey?
Gloria:Alright. We have a new pay web page of New Day in Christ Ministries that is a. We are trying to upgrade that web page for a while without
T.J.:A work in progress.
Gloria:Right? Okay. Good results. Other there is another web page that is Crossroads at Park Place. That is a ministry that is complementary to New Day in Christ ministry because it it serves the people experiencing poverty in the south southeast part of Houston.
Gloria:But, New Day in Christ is involved with that ministry. That is an community community. There are Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Methodist, and public. And the reason is because sometimes people comes out of jail, but because of their criminal record, they do not find a place to live and very difficult place to work. So that is a way we serve to the needs of the people.
Gloria:And I like I have a face pay, Facebook page. I use that more to send happy birthday when the Facebook page shows me, this person heard this today, and I open it. And and I like to send the people, for that day, a birthday wishes. Like a more like a blessing.
T.J.:Yeah. Gloria, thank you so much for sharing the life of clergy couple and what that feels like and looks like in ministry and sharing your faith journey and your vocation right now in helping inmates get a new start and a renewal in life where in many societies and in many circumstances, that opportunity is not always there.
Gloria:Mhmm. Well, TJ, thank you very much for inviting me, and I hope that we continue enjoying the Cumberland Road podcast.
T.J.:Yeah. Thank you so much, Gloria. And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
