Greg Bowen - Making Connections & Being Involved
You're listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. The following is a faith conversation with Greg Bowen, a Cumberland Presbyterian minister who's serving the Liberty Church in McMinnville, Tennessee. My conversation with Greg is both fascinating and interesting. He brings humor and perspective to his life. We had a lot of commonalities being discovered in our conversation. Greg spent seventeen years of his life in the broadcasting media industry, and I was interested in picking his brain. What he thought of podcasting, what he thought of conversations, and of course, he thinks of ministry. Enjoy this faith conversation with Greg Bowen.
T.J.:Well, Greg, I feel like, you need to be on this end of the podcast. We met probably about five years ago, and you were telling me that you have a career in or had a career in broadcasting. So let's start there. What did you do before you got into ministry?
Greg:Absolutely. And, TJ, thanks for having me and being a part of the Cumberland Road broadcast and podcast. And you know what? The broadcast world opened my eyes to a lot of different avenues. But I tell people whenever I'm kinda giving them a little background history, was born and raised on a farm and we've milked cows and I wanted to do whatever I could to get away from farm work.
Greg:That was tough. Seven days a week and working on Sundays and and so I kinda my career through life and everything brought me around to the grocery business. And guess what? It was seven days a week and, and, tough, tough work there. And then then I became a milkman.
Greg:Most people do not know that about me. I worked for vibrant company out of Nashville, Tennessee called Purity Dairies, selling milk from a cow. I mean, you know, it kinda sounds gross whenever you think about it. And then I thought, that is so appealing. Let's stop selling milk and let's sell air.
Greg:So I got into the broadcast business selling advertising for radio stations, a company called Common Wealth Broadcasting out of the, out of Kentucky. And at the time they had 24 radio stations and, and just awesome opportunities. We were the flagship for Western Kentucky University sports. And I I got to meet so many people and athletes, celebrities through the broadcast business. But I was not on the radio.
Greg:I produced a lot of shows. I was able to set up a lot of equipment. I entertained a lot of clients, but most of all, was in charge of sales and motivating salespeople and selling myself to buy air. And think about that. Mean, air's free, right?
T.J.:Right.
Greg:Until you start trying to make a living with it. And then you're like, no one gets up in the morning and says, Man, I think I'm gonna buy some air today. So that's kind of the background of my broadcast history, but I loved producing commercials. I loved writing commercials. I loved being but most of all, I loved the interaction with the people, not just with the clients, which were great, but the salespeople and the people, the DJs and all of that, because there were dynamics.
Greg:If I were somebody used to ask me and say, well, are you on the radio? And and my comeback was, if I was on the radio, you'd be turning it to a different station because I'm too vanilla. You know, those DJs, the good ones that keep your attention that make you think when you're driving down the road or working out in the yard or in your garage, the ones that keep your attention are the ones that's doing their job. They think that they're talking to just you. And man, I don't know that I had that capability over the airways, but they did teach me a lot.
Greg:So that's kind of the background of broadcast media.
T.J.:Yeah. You're right. Because the a DJ in in the radio industry, you have to be engaging. You have to have your
Greg:Yeah.
T.J.:Unique personality and, in many cases, unique voice. Mhmm. But I'm fast forwarding in a way, you're not a radio DJ, but you are a public speaker.
Greg:Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And
T.J.:But you tried to avoid. You ended up doing it in a different path, in a different way.
Greg:Yeah. And and whenever you're whenever you have a sales team, you you guess what? You're you're trying to motivate them to go out and sell advertising and to be around clients and treat people the way you wanted to be treated. And and really and truly my passion, if I had a dream job that that was in the secular world, it would be coaching baseball.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:And and that's what I love because baseball is a motivational sport, but also done with meticulous and with purpose and intentionality. Okay, why are we doing this to get to this point? And I guess it all ties in. So I like to motivate people, and that's how I ended up in the broadcast business. My boss used to tell me, if you can sell chocolate milk, you can sell radio.
Greg:Okay. I said, I don't know about that, but
T.J.:Well, in the, let's go back a little bit. In the Purity milk company and you were delivery, did you deliver residential to schools, businesses? What did that look like?
Greg:Pretty much all. I was trained out of Nashville for for home delivery. I did home delivery for a week just so you would know how that would work. And we and yes, I am 58 years old, but whenever it was still happening, whenever we would go into people's houses and leave them bacon and eggs and half and half and butter. And you're just like, Man, what's keeping people from just still Well, that's why they did away with it, you know, because it was too dangerous.
Greg:But, yeah, I come through the purity ranks. I became a route jumper. I was a route supervisor. I I helped work if there were accidents or anything like that or whatever. I I helped the guys out and and really and truly, it there's nothing like getting up at anywhere from 12:30 to 03:30 in the morning and and being out on the roads delivering milk and they're like, is their stores open?
Greg:Well, guess what? A lot of schools have to have that milk whenever them kids roll in there.
T.J.:That's right.
Greg:So so I've I've done a lot of the aspects of that. And let me tell you, that's hard work.
T.J.:Any interesting stories in the broadcast marketing aspect?
Greg:You know, sometimes some of the kookiest commercials that you that the customer approves you to put on the air, you're thinking, okay, the FCC will probably fine us for this. And, but a lot of times it gets the biggest ratings and the biggest turnaround, and people come in, and that's what produces selling. And one of the campaigns that we were a part of in the radio business, I didn't get to write the commercial myself, but it I I like pig pig butts, and I cannot lie. Okay? It was a play off the word, you know, big.
T.J.:Yeah.
Greg:But it it turned out great. And that was produced in house and and just so many fun things and keeping it lighthearted. And and we have all different types of platforms too. So it it people anytime they're talking about a commercial, you know you're doing your job. And that doesn't produce sales, but it will eventually because people will say, where is that coming from?
Greg:So that's just one example. And you can edit that out. No.
T.J.:Not only did you sell, air, but did you also write the jingle the jingos jingles.
Greg:Did you write
T.J.:yeah. Jingles. In the scripts, did you do that?
Greg:Not the jingles. The jingles most of the time we hired companies that that would come in produce most of those. But a lot of the scripts, yeah, each salesperson was in charge of what we called building the house. Okay? Whenever you went to the client, you were like, okay, mister bank president, tell us about your bank.
Greg:We have the friendliest people, whatever bank says they have the friendliest people. So you had to dig down to build the house for that particular client. And you couldn't just throw all of the wood on there and just say, build me a house. Okay. I wanted three bedrooms.
Greg:You only gave me two bedrooms. So you had to dig and then every salesperson wrote their own commercial and, for the client. And then we had some help that our production manager would come back and say, okay, all right, can we change this line? And by the way, it was a thirty second commercial and you've got enough for a two minute commercial. It, you know, so it was all a learning process, something to me that whenever you're listening to the radio and you hear those commercials, you're like, gosh, what is that?
Greg:And the big thing, what about those car commercials at the end where they say all those words and you can't understand?
T.J.:Right.
Greg:Well, that's the disclaimer. They've only got that one car for $10,000 Everything else is 60,000. Okay? So there's always legal jargon with that and attorneys, that you have no idea.
T.J.:When you would meet with a client, would you have one or multiple interviews to kinda capture the intent and what they wanted to articulate, what they wanted to market? Because in a way, would imagine you have to be, well, a good interviewer a good detective to kind of mine and discover what they really wanted to do. But then, at the same time, you're also marketing yourself because you want them to buy that airtime. So what is that balance? What is that
Greg:Sure.
T.J.:Like?
Greg:Great great question. I I had a awesome boss that had this line and you had to keep repeating it to a client to try to get to not just the commercial part of it, but to the informational part. And you could play on these words a little bit. Tell us something about your business or your product that you think everyone knows, but they don't. Okay.
Greg:Prime example, a Cadillac dealership. Everybody knows what a Cadillac is. Everybody would love to have a Cadillac. Now that may have changed than it did whenever our parents desired to drive a Cadillac. But Cadillac, what makes someone want to go out and buy one today?
Greg:Well, is it the symbol? No, the symbol don't get you anywhere, but it does carry a sense of standard, you know?
T.J.:Yeah.
Greg:So we just kept trying to play on that. And then once we got them to talk about the features in the car, the, the, how, how Cadillac has free service for two years and how it is rated one of the safest cars to put your children in the end. Guess what? We started coming up with a concept of Cadillac driving style, but it's also safe for your family. Okay.
Greg:You know, that hits home.
T.J.:Yeah.
Greg:And how would you know that? I don't drive a Cadillac. Yeah.
T.J.:You do. You I guess, in a way, you are a detective trying to capture in thirty seconds or less. What is the message that you want to convey?
Greg:Yeah. Absolutely. And you have to keep asking the question. And and I say that because that was part of the sales too, whenever you were selling them on the concept of buying advertising. Advertising does not work with one thirty second commercial.
Greg:Okay. The Super Bowl is a prime example of that. We are too much removed from the Super Bowl. And if I were to ask you right now, TJ named me three commercials in the Super Bowl.
T.J.:I couldn't.
Greg:You couldn't. You know, but you can probably think back and the screaming pig now that has been shown through basketball season so much, that was in the Super Bowl, but you remember it because it's played so many times now. You know, the the pig went, we we we all the way home. I I am so tired of that commercial. I can't wait till basketball season's over, so they shut that off.
Greg:But it makes you remember what it's all about.
T.J.:What skills, what lessons did you learn in broadcasting media industry that carry over into the ordained ministry?
Greg:Really and truly, some of those same questions I ask to people that I meet with and whenever I'm writing sermons and preparing, whether that be for a wedding, a funeral, or for my congregations on Wednesdays and Sundays, I'm asking, what is something that you can share that you think everyone knows, but they don't? And are you breaking it down to where they can grasp it? Because there are a lot of times that commercials run through and you're like, what on earth were they even selling?
T.J.:Especially usually, it's hard to tell. And I I know we're I know we're kinda transitioning a little bit here, but there have been, you know, television commercials or streaming commercials that I don't even know what the product is.
Greg:Yeah.
T.J.:It ends up being for, you know, cologne or perfume or
Greg:Exactly. Or Yep.
T.J.:Yeah. Something not tangible. But from the verbal, from the audio point of view, you have that opportunity to especially, I think, in in sermons and preparation and delivery is you have the ability to take the time to convey that idea, but yet you still have to be concise.
Greg:You can't meander. You can't. You can't. And and that transitions also into whenever you're trying to help people through hard times or a situation in their life or they wanna meet with you and it they come in wanting to meet about one thing, but it kinda gets down another road and you have to bring them back. Hey, let's let's concentrate on this one.
Greg:Then we'll let's write a second commercial. Let's meet next time on that particular subject. You you know? So yeah, the Lord prepared me as much as possible for a lot of different avenues. And I started late in life, you know, compared to most, you know, but it was definitely the path, but it was also the path I knew whenever it was time to dedicate everything to full time ministry.
T.J.:Well, I've been looking forward to having this conversation because I met you on the front end of Cumberland Road. It was 2020 or 2021, but early early. And I was teaching a class, and you were in it preparing for ministry. And I remember you casually saying, yeah. I I have a, you know, radio broadcasting background, And that intimidated me because I didn't know I still don't know what I'm doing, you know, in terms of of, you know, having a guest on, inquiring about their faith, the journey that they've been on, and then even the more practical technical stuff of of recording it, editing it, doing intros, outros, music, fading in, and all these different things that I knew nothing about.
T.J.:And I know a little bit more, but not a whole lot more. And so I'd I've I have been looking forward to this conversation. Now I feel a lot better because I thought I walked away from that casual comment of thinking, oh my goodness. Greg Greg was the DJ. Greg was the producer.
T.J.:Greg you know, Greg knows, and you
Greg:do know a lot more
T.J.:about this than I do. So you have I I shouldn't have waited the these years later. I should have.
Greg:Exactly right. No. Not at all.
T.J.:Because occasionally, when you're working on, at least for me, when you're working on something like this, you you wonder, you know, how is this gonna be heard? How, you know, will people give Greg, the guest, you know, a fair shake, a fair listen?
Greg:Sure.
T.J.:Or will it be something that I do either in my questions or leading the conversation or on the technical side that will throw up a barrier for the listener to not listen to Greg? So, I mean, that goes through my mind every time I put one of these out.
Greg:I get you. You've But that also what makes you unique in your podcast carrying on. There's a reason why you've got over a hundred of these available to people, you know? So
T.J.:Yeah. Probably stubborn. Just just keep it. Just keep going. No.
T.J.:Look. I believe people's faith journey is very compelling, and God moves in ways that differ from person to person and whether someone is called in the ministry or not, but God transforms lives. And Yeah. I am highly interested in hearing those transformations, which are every time always in progress. There's no point of arrival.
Greg:Better not be.
T.J.:And I enjoy just kinda hopping on in that particular person's life to learn more about them, to hear where they are. And, you know, they've everyone has been gracious enough to allow me to do that so far. And and, you know, as I've said before, in a way, this is a form of evangelism. To hear other people's stories can inspire us to share our own journey with others.
Greg:Yeah. Absolutely.
T.J.:Greg, I've bounced you around all over the place. Let let's go back towards the beginning and early in your life. And let's begin there. You grew up in Kentucky. And as soon as you're able to walk, and hold chores, you were caring for cows.
T.J.:So we can we can start there and start family life and the expectations for you as a kid growing up?
Greg:Absolutely. I grew up on a family farm, and we we milked cows virtually all of my life whenever I was young and I have three older brothers and a mom and dad that loved us very much. They loved us so much. They worked us and taught us how to work and how important it was that you, if you want something out of life, you're going to have to work for it. It's not going to just be given to you.
Greg:I am thankful for that, but we never stopped at any point in time knowing where those blessings came from, to know where a good crop, whenever it was harvested, whenever there was a lot of times just to get us through, it was that milk paycheck that hit, that was able to feed the family. It was cash flow and it was a business. And, And my parents taught me that. And my mom, not only was she the housewife and took care of all the clothes and all the meals and fed all the hands and everything, they taught at church. He led worship.
Greg:I mean, it it never stopped. It it was always a continuum. It's and that's all I knew. You know, you you you milked at 04:00 on Sunday so you could be at church at seven. And the and and sometimes if the pastor did something at 05:30 at church and then would ask my father, hey, we missed you.
Greg:And he was like, Well, if you'd have come out and help me milk, we could have been here. You know? The cows still had to be milked on Sunday. But they taught me that. And I had three older brothers that worked and still work today and and just what a what a awesome opportunity and and to be that.
Greg:I but TJ, I I tell this as part of my testimony too. I don't have this. I I fell off the wagon or and and I don't mean I haven't I've I've sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. Trust me. But I don't have this big story of, I didn't know Jesus Christ, who he was until late in life.
Greg:And I don't, but I relish that story like that because I was raised. I was raised by God fearing people, and I truly mean that. If you didn't do what dad wanted you to do, he put the fear of God in you. And so but I was. I was blessed.
Greg:We went, I had Sunday school pens. You know, for for not missing. I've got every vacation bible school we went to and other churches we went to. We went to gospel singing after gospel singing And guess what? It didn't damage me too much.
Greg:So I have a great testimony that doesn't have to go down a road of glimmer of no hope because there was hope all the time. I'm able to share that with people that at any point in time, can be drawn near and serve our Lord Jesus Christ.
T.J.:Being immersed in the Christian faith also immerses us in a community of other believers. So, Greg, talk about important people, especially will stay kind of early in life that influenced you, that deepened your faith, that encouraged you to earn those pins of attendance. And Sure. Yeah. Who were those folks?
T.J.:What did that
Greg:look Yeah. I was born and raised in the Methodist Church and very proud of that. Okay. I had some great, great ministers that that had conversations with us on a level. And I'm talking about seven, eight, nine, 10 years old.
Greg:They knew how important that, that age was. My first sermon was at a children's or youth gathering at a Methodist church. And the preacher, our preacher at the time, Travis Kelter Kelter, he gave me a book and he said, Hey, you're bringing a devotional tonight. Well, I didn't even know what devotional meant, you know? And I went in and all I know is how he would preach, okay?
Greg:Yeah. And I took that little book and I found the scripture and presented that night. And whenever we walked out there, he said, Man, you're going to be a preacher one day. And I was 11 years old at the time and loved it ever bit of it. And, but I didn't, I, I, those were just words to me.
Greg:I had no idea that. So that's one example. Brother Dan Smith was another minister that come in whenever I was in my teenage years that just loved being around kids. And he was a young minister and had a lot of energy and just fit in well with about, there was about 20 of us in the youth group at the time, and you know how that is. And so it just was good.
Greg:And then transitioning over to your later years of whenever you know everything in high school and, and, and my parents, continually, as I was at home and before I was married, they were like, Hey, you going to church? Well, yeah, I guess so. It wasn't an option. If you lived and slept in the house, you went to church. You know, you might slide by if it was prom night or something, but other than that, man, that was just a it was a part of your every day
T.J.:Mhmm.
Greg:Living was to make sure and attend just the same as it was doing your part of the farm work.
T.J.:So You mentioned being a part of a youth group and a pretty good sized youth group. Talk about that for a little bit and how that is formative in the faith too as a youth, being around peers who are, you know, still physically growing, your brain is forming, you have all these hormones, you're in school, you're in different sports, different activities. There's so much going on at that time of life. Being around and being in a youth group, a Christian youth group, can either make you or break you in the sense of remaining attached and faith infiltrating your decisions. So how did that work for you, Greg?
T.J.:Was it a place of fellowship, or was it a place of of deepening your discipleship?
Greg:Really and truly, the perfect scenario. It it was I had a couple of people that were youth leaders at the time, Janet Gaypart, she was our youth leader, and her and her husband, very young at the time and just engaged and loved being around kids and didn't have their own kids yet. And, and, and was just wanted to make sure that we had the opportunity to know who Jesus Christ was and how much he loved us and showing that love through the church and through being able to provide us with a fun time also. And as I got into ministries, everywhere you go and the people you talk to and even older people will talk about their youth days at camp and whenever they enjoyed and how that grew their discipleship and how that grew their faithfulness and relationship with Jesus Christ. I talk about a lot of being intentional.
Greg:Okay? We can be intentional without having to and make it fun. So that that's that's a big part of the career that I didn't know that the Lord was planning for me and teaching me and showing me. And I look back now and yes, I'm 58 years old, but I love being in contact with the children. I love having children's church with them.
Greg:I love going in their Sunday school classes. I love just cutting up with them. You know, I want to stay a kid. I know it can't happen, but I love being around the kids.
T.J.:I also grew up in an environment that had strong children and youth programs. And I look back now, and find how informative that is in my interactions with everybody. And I didn't know at the time how important it was to be in a youth group because there's a lot of people who didn't have those opportunities to
Greg:That's right.
T.J.:Build relationships, be silly, go on trips, go on mission trips, go on retreats. It was that really provided me other opportunities to I mean, I did mischievous things on those retreats Sure. And things like that. Sure.
Greg:But it
T.J.:did get it it gave me an out to where I could have been in other groups. I could have been doing something else that may have been more detrimental or harmful to me or to others. And I look back and how that's influenced me. It's also how it's very important to interact, as you had mentioned earlier, with the children and youth in the local church to break down those barriers because you hide behind a pulpit or a podium or something to that matter. You're on an elevated stand and you're a child or youth already.
T.J.:So you most well, maybe not in my case and you're quick. But most of
Greg:the time, they're looking Exactly.
T.J.:Yes. And to be able to break those barriers down and see you as just another member of the faith community. Yeah. You have a role. You have a gift that you're sharing.
T.J.:You're providing a service to God to other people. But, you know, you're you're just a guy, one member of many members in the faith community. Mhmm.
Greg:Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree with you more. I love that children's church on Sunday morning. I tell my congregation, I like for the children still to come down and we do that in the pulpit, altar area because I want them to feel comfortable about using that.
Greg:I want them to feel comfortable about being in God's house and yes, treatment with respect, but it's there for us to use too. And the more they feel comfortable about coming down there and, and learning a lesson or praying, then we don't get into people whenever they're older age saying, oh, I can't go down there. All these questions. Those kids don't ask questions. They wonder what kind of Tootsie Pop I'm going to give them, you know, or whatever.
Greg:So, yeah, I want it to be comfortable whenever they walk in the door. They know this is my church and it's God's house. I'm gonna respect it. But, he loves me being here. Just like, you know, we would welcome our own kids and grandkids into our home.
T.J.:You mentioned that you are the youngest of four. So in your teenage years, you're getting close to graduation. What were there any expectations that you would be a dairy farmer, remain on the farm? What did your mom and dad want for you? What and what did you want for yourself at that time?
Greg:You know, I struggle with that. I I struggle with that all of my life. What what is my career? What what is my calling? And, and I never could really, I never could really pinpoint that.
Greg:You know, I, I struggle with making decisions, but I never struggled with trying to make money and providing for my family. You know, that was a piece of cake. I think I have been without a job one day in my entire adult life, one day. And my wife says that's the cleanest that the house has ever been because I spent that one day of unemployment on the house. And that is a blessing too.
Greg:But at the age of I was 16 years old, I was in Chicago, Illinois on a FFA four H trip. And I was fixing to meet Orville Redenbacher. I had won a contest through impromptitude speaking I was going to get to meet Orville Redenbucker and sit beside him having dinner in Chicago through four H. And right before I was going in to do that, my mom and dad had bought me $10 worth of calling cards. And there's a lot of people that are probably listening to a podcast that says, what on earth are calling cards?
Greg:Well, they were small credit cards you put in your number and you can call long distance, where it they wouldn't have to accept your call and just ring ring into the house phone. Right. So
T.J.:yeah, as opposed to calling collect.
Greg:Yeah. And say, will you accept this call? You're going.
T.J.:Yeah, I forgot about those. Yeah, you could. You could go to the store and buy these cars. They had a bunch of numbers on it. You had to type in the numbers in
Greg:the punch in every number.
T.J.:And then once it cleared, then you could dial the number that you were trying to reach.
Greg:That's right. And she my mom had purchased me $10 to take with me. Dollars 10 worth, you know, and it was so much a minute. So I remember calling home and whenever I called home, my mom answered and she said, Your dad wants to talk to you. And I was like, What have I done?
Greg:I'm in Chicago. What am I in trouble for? Or whatever. And he gets on there and he says, Greg, there's been a gentleman that wants to buy the farm and the cows, but we'll keep it if you'll if you want to stay in the farm life, we'll keep it. We'll keep right on going.
Greg:And I instantly said, sell it, please, please. Get rid of it. Sell it.
T.J.:That's a lot to lay on a 16, 17 year old.
Greg:But you have to yeah. There's a little backstory to that. My father had had had quadruple bypass surgery, had had a heart attack. And from about the age of 11 to 12 in my middle school years, I was milking twice a day. And pretty much running the dairy operation all on my
T.J.:own. Okay.
Greg:That's a lot to put on a teenager. So, and cows, man, guess what? You know, and what didn't make me a fan of school either because I couldn't even concentrate on school thinking about, man, gotta go home and meal. And I love sports, TJ. I wanted to play football, I wanted to play baseball and all of that, and couldn't do it.
Greg:And that's nothing bad. I mean, it was just what life dealt you. -Yeah. -And so I was like, oh, man, at 16, we get rid of the farm. Well, by the time we transitioned through, man, I was done graduated by the time we got rid of all the cows.
Greg:You know, I thought, yes.
T.J.:But you didn't But, anyway. You didn't hesitate in your response?
Greg:No. Not at all. And and so we we parted ways, and and and with that, we we became different types of breadwinners. My dad went back out and he became salesman. And then he was selling for a siding and window company.
Greg:And two of my older brothers, they got together and said, let's just open up our own place. We'll just sell home siding and windows ourselves. And we won't have to, we'll cut out one of the middle people and we'll make us more money. And they made a great living that way. And, and that back many, many years now, my father had left the site after being there and with the workers and that's all he did was sail and passed away with a massive heart attack.
Greg:That was, I think maybe his fourth or fifth heart attack, But yet again, he went out working, he went out, he never stopped. He was always, and it was never about work. It was about, man, talking to people, engaging and just, yeah, pretty special. And then I said I had three older brothers. I have one brother that has already passed away and that was a tough one in my ministry career to be able to do his funeral.
Greg:I didn't think I would be able to do it, but the Lord helped me through that process. And he was my hero. He was bad to the bone. And didn't mind to tell you. Well,
T.J.:not to make it light, but I would imagine that someone listening to this is gonna wanna know, did you end up meeting Redenbacher?
Greg:Oh, yes. Yeah. Oh, yes. And and he was old then too. And when I was 16 years old and and I was like, man, how did he even get here?
Greg:But you know how you are when you're that age. Everyone's old. But he was an old dude and, but just so kind. And he wanted to know everything about me and our farm and he acted like I was his grandson. I thought, man, that's pretty cool.
Greg:Yep. So we had dinner and then he went on about his way, but he was dressed like, just like he is on the picture on the box. So, I don't even think he's on the box anymore, but they're still oval red buck or popcorn.
T.J.:Yeah. I remember, let's see. White hair, dark eyeglasses, bow tie, collared shirt.
Greg:Very thin, very thin. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that's how he was. But just that grandpa look.
Greg:I I pictured it. I figured he went outside and probably smoked a Marlboro or a Winston or something.
T.J.:Greg, walk me through. I've learned about your days at Purity, the dairy farm, Mhmm. And your broadcasting career, how did you shift walk me through kinda your calling into ministry. And if you need to backpedal and and kinda give some context prior to that, that that's fine. But, you know, what was that transition like, that calling like?
Greg:Well, part of the calling, I think, goes all the way back to, yes, whenever I was a young boy and part of the youth groups and those type things, I love singing in the choir and I love all of the stuff that come with what you wanted youth to do.
T.J.:But
Greg:in transitioning through all of that, my wife and I married at the age of 20. And she was always very active at camp and things like that. And she was a Cumberland Presbyterian. And I was a Methodist. And I had to change.
Greg:No. That's not that's not true. We just seen that and and we didn't have kids or anything but we it was difficult going to two churches. We go to my church one Sunday and then her church the next Sunday and and and we were just like, what are we going to do here? Well, the opportunity came along for us to twenty year, twenty year old Sue and I, newly married.
Greg:They needed a youth director. Of course they needed a youth director. And will y'all take it? Yeah. So, sure we will.
Greg:And we were paying the other people, but we can't pay you. Okay, all right. I've read that book before too, okay? So anyway, but we did. And we had game night, we had devotionals.
Greg:We had the lock ins. The whole deal of what you used to could do. Okay? With youth and, so really and truly, I I could not be in ministry if it wasn't for Sue. And and she helped that.
Greg:Now, further even back, my parents, grandparents, all of them served a big portion of directing me and growing my relationship with the Lord, but really and truly ministers that I began to come in contact with and us showing how to lead as a team. And we've been a team ever since.
T.J.:And
Greg:and then I would come in with the crazy ideas of man, I'm going teach a Sunday school class or, or you you got the kids in the nursery and if you've got the kids in the nursery, then I'm going to go do something else. And so all of that, to circle back around, then at a young age, by the age of 22, we had a baby ourselves, you know? And then I walk in one day and said, we're going to move from Campbellsville, Kentucky to Glasgow, Kentucky. I walked in and told my wife that on Monday and we were living in Glasgow on Saturday.
T.J.:Great. That's
Greg:right. Yes. That was the grocery business and man. Yeah. And just transition and guess what my wife said, let's go.
Greg:And she was trying to finish up college and we she enrolled at Western Kentucky University and we rolled on and really and truly that was where we transitioned into Cumberland Presbyterians all the time. Now, I was already a member of the Campbellsville Church with her and but I didn't know anything about them much. Mhmm. And whenever we moved down here, we said, where are we going to go to church? And and Sue said, well, I know this guy named Freddie Norris.
Greg:And he he goes with us to camp. He leads camp. He's a real funny guy and he's a great guy. So let's just try out the Glasgow CP Church. And guess what?
Greg:We tried it out and never left and they let me be a part of the softball team and ever good church has a softball team, you know, or used to years ago. And yet again, connections and and being involved, being involved in somebody else's life. And and and it just continued to grow. But my ministry led from and I don't know how far you are wanting me to take this, but I feel like my true ministry began whenever we transitioned out of a pastor and the new pastor came in and said, Hey, I'd like for you to be an elder. And I was like, I'm not qualified for that.
Greg:And he real quick turned around and said, guess what? None of us are. That's that's why we have to depend upon the Lord's guidance and trust in him and be in his word. And I was like, okay, let's give it a try. You know, and and we've we're all guilty as ministers of doing people like that.
Greg:And and there are some good and bad in those type things. But but that's where, that's where it all started. I was at Ella for nineteen years in a row and we might need to edit that out because that's against ever bylaw or anything like that. But, you know, but there was nobody to rotate at the time whenever the church was growing.
T.J.:Right. Right. And And and some sessions don't rotate.
Greg:That's exactly right. Yeah. But this one should be. It was just a it
T.J.:Well, you were a young man then.
Greg:I I was. Yeah. Yeah. Really young.
T.J.:This minister and, of course, the congregation saw something in you to be an elder. What do you think that was looking back now?
Greg:Sue was a really good worker. Mhmm. Because I'll be honest with you. There were a lot of Sundays. I was not at church because I was the manager at the grocery store.
Greg:I saw everybody after church, but I was working at the grocery store and Sue took our daughter at the time to church. And with that being said, she Wednesdays were our night together. That we had a program called Logos.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah.
Greg:And I I know you're familiar with that. But that was so rich to a young family. We were broke, TJ. We we, you know, we we were broke, and it was kind of our entertainment on Wednesdays to be able to go and have a nice sit down meal and and and sit there and talk to other kids. And, and those kids talk to our little daughter at the time and, and gave us a break.
Greg:And, but it also gave us a time to sit down as a couple in a class. And then, you know, how that usually goes, you tend to class enough, then you become a teacher. So, and then she would always teach a class. She, you know, she would teach all day and then teach on Wednesdays and Sundays. Use the same people.
Greg:Yeah.
T.J.:I'll interrupt you here for a moment. Something that you said is pretty profound. When as a church leader, an elder, minister, deacon, volunteer, whatever it may be, we often look at the things being offered within the church, you know, the programs like logos in terms of goal oriented, in terms of, okay, it's going to accomplish a, b, and c. Yeah. That is the purpose of logos.
T.J.:That's the purpose of any particular program. Sure. I hadn't really thought much about it. You and your family looked at it from a from that perspective, but on a totally different level of this is for us with limited funds. This is our entertainment, you said, but it's also our our building of a community.
T.J.:I think that often gets overlooked, that we look at the programs and the events that are designed and implemented, offered within a church, and we are able to answer very well. This is why we're doing it. This is what we want to accomplish. Maybe we need to be a little more open to the people who are actually participating that you might get that out of it, but it serves another purpose as well.
Greg:Yes, absolutely. And and it served us very well. You know, it it really did. And the logos program was great for our church and bringing that in. And guess what?
Greg:We were wholeheartedly. We paid all the dues to Logos. I mean, it was expensive. And we used their material we did the, they had the comforter. We even had the full time comforter that walked around to the kids that you couldn't control and they helped us with that.
Greg:And you're just like, man. And we rotated and we played games and we found out about each other. And yes, TJ, programs like that work, but the devil has taken things like that in today's world. And stolen our attention. Gave people other avenues that that take away from that gathering as Christians or as an opportunity to bring those kids into the church like that.
Greg:And there are other organizations out there that are great. Don't get me wrong. But but we have kinda lost our fire just a little bit about being one of those organizations. Okay? The after school programs, everybody knew Wednesday after school on logos night.
Greg:You went to the church, and that was where you went. You went downstairs to the the tables downstairs, and you knocked out your homework. And and And it was just like being at home. You finished your homework. Well, not yet.
Greg:Then what are you doing? Get it done. You know, had a snack form and everything. And then you went on. Was a- but you had to have the workers.
Greg:And in today's world, it's the same 20% doing 80% of the work. And it does. It takes dedication. You can't do that in a 30 person church. So, yeah, I keep going back, if we stay on here long enough, the devil has us right where he wants us because there's too many other things out there and steal us away and gather our attention.
Greg:It's too easy to say, I believe I'd rather go do this.
T.J.:Right. Right. I think, also that everything has a season. So a program like Logos that maybe was successful, had its place maybe in the eighties, nineties, early '2 thousands. But the needs, maybe they change as well in Sure.
T.J.:Church or churches need to adapt to be able to I don't think the needs necessarily have changed, but the way to meet those needs. We we need to be creative. So meeting on a Wednesday night may not be feasible, but that doesn't mean that tutoring is still a need. Snack or an evening meal Yeah. Youth and children is a need.
T.J.:It's just how do we how do we address those? And I think maybe the distinction is and I'm not picking on logos at all. I mean, we can really
Greg:No. I get you.
T.J.:Put any of these in there. Maybe it really is contextual. So those universal or international programs, one size fits all, maybe it is more the circumstances in the context of the local church. You know? A local doesn't even have children.
T.J.:So you wouldn't go with logos because, you know Does it? Yeah.
Greg:But it doesn't mean you couldn't use some of those same concepts like sitting down and having a meal together. That because there there are widows or widowers of the church that always talk to their spouse and now that spouse is gone, there's nobody there to talk to.
T.J.:Right.
Greg:You know, one of the things that I've found in commonality with all of those groups, and it's hard to meet all of those, especially as a pastor that's supposed to have all the right answers. Okay? But whether you're talking about senior adults, young parents, youth, they all fight some of the commonality things and sometimes it's loneliness, sometimes it's health concerns. You say, well, does a youth talk about health concerns? Okay.
Greg:We are off the charts more than ever about youth dealing with different mental health concerns or even physical health concerns. And what about financial struggles? We have taught kids more than ever the importance of money. Okay. And they start worrying about it at a younger and younger age.
Greg:So all of these different things and they fit into every one of those categories. What about technology? Okay. You say, well, the kids don't have any problem with technology. Oh, they don't?
Greg:Is that why they're trying to get rid of certain platforms? Yes, they do struggle with it. Well, how does an older person struggle with it? They can't answer their phone. Okay?
Greg:So there's all those struggles there, but they still all intertwine. And we just have to be able to find the release of how to say, okay, Mr. Senior adult, what are you struggling with? Well, I'm having trouble with my Internet at the home. Okay.
Greg:Alright. Hey, if you can get a child to open up to you or a young person to open up to you and say, what are you struggling with? Man, I am struggling with just this kid that will not leave me alone. Okay. Alright.
Greg:How can we approach that? So, yeah. And and I didn't mean to chase a rabbit on you there or whatever, but I I but
T.J.:I think
Greg:that's what logos kinda brought to us. It it opened up a conversation.
T.J.:I I think it emphasizes the need for community and the different members within the community.
Greg:Yeah. You have Yep.
T.J.:Maybe even different sets of issues or problems or challenges, values as well, but that recognition that this is a community. And, you know, let let's enjoy the benefits of being in a community. So my weakness is your strength. My strength is your weakness. And but the only way to discover those things is to spend time in the community.
Greg:Sure. Yeah. And and that's why I like today. Yes. I love baseball, but I love going to the kids games.
Greg:Okay? I I love just sitting out there and they they think and I tell them, hey, I'm coming to watch you, but I I'm coming out there just so I can set out in right or left field away from all the parents and just sit out there and enjoy a baseball game and watching those kids play, you know? That's what I like. And so yeah.
T.J.:How did the transition from elder and a calling to ministry occur? What was that like?
Greg:Pastor and Reverend Tim Stuttler, Cumberland Presbyterian minister, came to our church, and he was the one that introduced me to the concept of being an elder and that we needed to that being an elder was more than just handing out bulletins on Sunday morning and opening doors for people, which is an important part. I'm not making light. Okay? But he started teaching us as elders of what it meant to be teachers and examples and try to live through the eyes of Christ. And that's what would grow a church and that's what would grow your family.
Greg:And that's it didn't say you wouldn't have storms. It would just help you get through the storm and then enable you to give an example of why you were going through the storm of how a Christian is supposed to act. So Tim Stuttler started a program in the church and not right away, but he started asking some of the elders, hey, like for you to preach on Sunday night. Well, the word the word preach sometimes will scare people. I'm no preacher.
Greg:You know?
T.J.:That's what we hired
Greg:you for. That's right. That's exactly right. And and but looking back, it was really the way to go about it because it it was teaching us how to communicate Jesus Christ to the community.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Greg:And you started right with your own family. You know? Whenever you're a kid and you're singing, you think you're the best singer in the world because you sing in front of mom and dad and they just clap for you and tell you how good you are and everything. But then you have to go out into the world and sometimes people don't agree that your singing is that good. And so Tim had the foresight to say, Hey, let's start speaking here.
Greg:And then himself and a couple of retired ministers would meet with us afterwards. And they were not critical or tell us, Oh, you misquoted scripture, because I'm sure I did. They were in there and say, Wow, have you ever thought about using this this way? Have you thought about this scripture this way and kind of give us feedback? But most of all, TJ, they loved on us and prayed over us.
T.J.:All the elders took a turn of leading a Wednesday night or a Sunday night.
Greg:Yeah. That that was willing. Now there were some that that's not their calling.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Greg:And and I get that. But as an elder, we are called to teach and we are called to spread the gospel. Now some of them spread it in different ways. But if you were willing to do that, well, that's that's where that started in the congregation. And and and from there, I thought, man, I I'm really blessed out of this.
Greg:Not that I was doing a good job, but the Lord blessed me for doing it. Does that make sense?
T.J.:Yeah. You were given an opportunity.
Greg:Yeah. And and through that blessing, and and it wasn't about, oh, everybody left and said, oh, great sermon. Great sermon. It wasn't about that at all. Because in my background, which prepared me, I refereed and umpired for nineteen years.
Greg:So you always had that congregational member that tells you that you did a good job, but you also got that other one that'll tell you, man, you messed that up bad. Okay? That refereeing and umpiring helped me with that. Okay? So through that process, it led me to the next step of becoming a Gideon.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:I really thought that was my calling. I loved going to other churches and speaking and just talking to people about, let's get the word of God out into so many hands. That today gives me one of my favorite Bible verses. You know, the Gideons are built off Isaiah fifty five eleven. It says, so this is my word that goes out of my mouth and it shall not return empty.
Greg:And I I just think that is so powerful. You you know, it's his word. We're just the one that's spreading it. And and if we continue to do that, it would never be empty. It will it will continue to multiply and bless.
T.J.:The message that you gave as a Gideon in different churches, was it the same in every location? Did you change it up?
Greg:No. You you were free to change it up. They you could use whatever scripture you wanted to. But that to me, though, was the basis of what the Gideons were. Mhmm.
Greg:Okay? And I kinda wrapped up every sermon with that.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:But with the Gideons, what was unique, you'd go into some places, and I'm sure you can identify to this, you go into some churches, the preacher was not willing to give up his time at all. Okay. So a lot of times you would get there and you were going to have a Gideon service and you got the children's time. Okay. Or, or they would say, okay, I'll, I'll let you speak right after the offering.
Greg:You're like, okay. So you had to be flexible. And I was very flexible in that. I had a five, ten, fifteen, and twenty minute sermon each time I went out.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:Whether I had five minutes or twenty minutes. And then there were other extreme cases. You get there, and then they sang two songs and said, Now we turn it over to the Gideons. And so you had the whole service, you know, but you come out better if you let them out ten minutes early.
T.J.:Right.
Greg:You get more donations. And the donations were always, you just went to the back and you opened up your bible and whatever they laid in the bible, and that's how we collect it at the time. And just super blessed. I never will forget, I got to a church, and TJ, these two churches sat within probably less than 10 yards of each other. Two different churches.
Greg:One was a Baptist missionary and the other one was like a Baptist missionary tomb or something like that. But they had split. They they had split, but there were still two congregations there. And I was like, man, this is intimidating. I haven't even walked in the door.
Greg:So I I I walk in the door and a gentleman meets me in Bill Boveralls.
T.J.:All right.
Greg:He says, First Gideon speaker we've had in ten years. I said, Well, thank you for having us. The last one kept us to fifteen after. What are you going to do? I said, Well, I don't know.
Greg:I don't know how much time I've got today. And they said, You've got fifteen minutes. I said, Okay, that's fine. But it ended up being about thirty, but I still did the fifteen minute one and I let them out early. And he was the first one that come through and he reached down into his wallet out of the front of them bib overalls, and he laid two $100 bills down in that bible and says, You can come back anytime you want to.
Greg:And you can tell he kinda ran the church, you know? He wasn't the pastor, but he was a And so I always find that very interesting, but I loved meeting the people. I loved spreading God's word. And I just knew that was my calling. I was gonna be able to go on mission trips.
Greg:I was gonna deliver Bibles and and got to do that. I just figured I'd still be doing that today.
T.J.:How often were you a Gideon speaker? Could you do it every Sunday?
Greg:You could. I I because not everyone in your camp, per se, is what they called it, wanted to be a speaker. Some were donation getters, others were just handing out the scriptures at campuses and some were just going into schools at the time, you know, all of this, who had different jobs. But there were about four of us that were speakers, and we would rotate. Okay?
Greg:But there were times, TJ, I was three Sundays in a row. And I loved it. And at the time, I was like, wow, is this really? Should I be at my own church or whatever like that? But yet again, I I knew I was gonna be there on Sunday night.
Greg:I knew I was gonna be there on Wednesdays. It it it was serving in multiple capacities. It really was.
T.J.:Walk me through the transition from public speaking and preaching through the Gideon and how that translated into a calling in the ministry for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Greg:You know, I I've been blessed with a gift. I love to tell stories. I love to tell stories, and I love to I love to be a coach. I love coaching people. I love to motivate people or try to motivate people.
Greg:And whenever I was with the Gideons, that's what I was doing, that it was the Lord's work, that he was taking your donations and multiplying them. And whenever I would leave there or whenever we were part of that service, the Lord and the Holy Spirit were working in ways that I would see it, it was moving them emotionally. Emotionally to be a part of growing God's kingdom. And it didn't have to just happen in their own churches and communities. It was gonna happen in places that we wouldn't see.
Greg:And with that, I was like, Man, the Lord's given me this opportunity to share with these people. And then they would ask me to come back and speak another time that didn't have anything to do with the Gideons.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:And I was like, Okay, what's going on here? And then as transitioning and then back to my home church there in Glasgow, it just people just kept asking, Hey, will you can you cover for me this Sunday at this church? Or they would say, oh, hey, are you preaching Sunday? You need to be preaching Sunday night, you know? And and so it was the Holy Spirit moving.
Greg:And guess what? Tim loved it because he wasn't having to prepare two sermons for a Sunday. He was pushing it off on myself and Barry Cradock. I know you've met Barry before and just what a and we did quite a bit of that. Now there were other elders too that spoke and things, but we were just the ones that fell into the pastor role for right now.
T.J.:What was it like entering into the educational process to become an ordained minister as a second, third, maybe even a fourth career?
Greg:Yeah. Too old to be going back to school.
T.J.:Was that your first reaction?
Greg:It was. It it scared me to death because TJ, I was a farmer. I was not a scholar. Okay? I was a laborer.
Greg:You give me a project, I'll knock it out for you. Yeah. The heavier, the better. Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. You're a doer.
Greg:Yeah. And schooling to be totally transparent, and I'm not ashamed of this, I have to read scripture over and over again sometimes to be able to even comprehend it and books to be able to comprehend it. And sometimes I have trouble translating it and just putting it into the right words that someone older than eight needs to hear.
T.J.:Greg. Greg, I I don't think you're unique in that area at all. I have to do the same thing multiple
Greg:times. Man, and I just struggled with that. I really did. And then and in my professional career, I had a boss that came through and at the time it really, it really hurt my feelings. It really did.
Greg:He said, hey, I've got a book here for you. And I said, Okay. And it was How to Speak in English for Dummies.
T.J.:Oh no.
Greg:Okay. Well, I was in the broadcast career. So you couldn't go on and just be the hick all the time if you were gonna be on the radio.
T.J.:Right. Okay.
Greg:So he said, I'm not, I'm not saying you're dumb. I'm just saying, if you want to lead people, you need to use some proper language and proper pronunciations. And I think this will help you. So we're going to go through this together. And I had to report to him every Monday and we did a conference call.
T.J.:Right.
Greg:And he was like, Okay, do you get your homework done? And at the time, I was like, Now, that doesn't keep me from using the wrong verbs or nouns or in the wrong language still today. I'm very much a country bumpkin. I'm still labeled, boy, you're just a country boy, aren't you? I sure am.
Greg:Yes, ma'am. But it did it did enlighten me that there there's a difference in the two theirs.
T.J.:Oh, yeah. Yeah. You you I'm surprised that I mean, because it could have gone a couple different ways and granted I was not in your shoes. The book could have just been handed it to you and just sent you away. This this individual did work through the book with you.
T.J.:So there was a level of commitment.
Greg:Yeah. Absolutely. And and what guess what? It was gonna make me better for his business too. Yeah.
Greg:Because I I was meeting I was going to be meeting with clients that were going to be spending quite a few thousand dollars. And you don't want to go in and meet with someone and ask them for something. And you act like you're from the backwoods and, you know, and I actually was from the backwoods, but, you know, you have to act better.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah.
Greg:And and it proved dividends.
T.J.:Yeah. I'm I'm chuckling not at your expense. It's just No. The older I get, the more I'm like, okay. Just kinda own or lean into who you are.
T.J.:You know? An internal discussion for me. And, not that help is not certainly needed. And I hope if help was offered, I would receive it. But there is a level of like, just being comfortable in your own skin.
Greg:Sure. And at the time, was already, I'd already taken quite a few pause classes and gotten some homework back that was looked like people had bled over them, you know, and rightfully so. But it was also teaching experience of, man, you're gonna have to put some thought into this. Okay. And trying to be by vocational, man, there were there were times that I was working sixty plus hours a week and then trying to preach and then trying to do a posh class.
Greg:And for four years there, I was I was coaching baseball Wow. At at the at the middle school level. I I was a head baseball coach at the middle school level. And and, yes, I I was like, man, don't tell me you've got something to do. I'll match that and raise you two.
Greg:You know, come to church.
T.J.:Yeah.
Greg:But looking back, I POS gave me a lot of anxiety. And for the people that say that POS is a a cheap way out, a easier way out, I invite you to jump in on a few of those classes. And a few of those, and you try, use some of that. And I think you will be and but I needed it. Okay?
Greg:The and to be honest with you, the part that I hated the most was staying in the dorms. And I and I told Michael Qualls that, you know, because we could have been doing this long, long time ago, but I have built relationships by going to Bethel University with people out of Arkansas, Oklahoma, here in Tennessee. I never would be at the Liberty CP Church if I had never went to Paws. I would not. And and the Lord knew that.
Greg:Okay? So, yeah, that that high anxiety at that time and credit where credit's due, I started using the resources that were around me. My wife, school teacher, thirty eight years, be retiring in about four weeks. Okay. All right.
Greg:Well, I'm sorry. I said thirty eight years. That's how long we've been married. Thirty, thirty three years she's she's taught. Okay?
Greg:And my daughter is an English major. So I was like, Man, quit turning these papers in and just using Grammarly. Let them look over that thing and see if they can help you just a little bit, you know?
T.J.:It takes a level of humility though. I mean
Greg:It does.
T.J.:To have your own child, adult child, but have your own child or your spouse read over your work. I mean, it really makes it vulnerable as opposed to your instructor, you know, somebody like me. I mean, you don't know me. You know? This is my input or my opinion or the grade.
T.J.:But, you know, your spouse, your child, that's a little bit different. They're stuck with you.
Greg:But my competitive nature and my work ethic that my parents had put in there, man, it was just something about, you just didn't wanna get that grade back and you're just average.
T.J.:Yeah. You
Greg:know? And I know I am. I am just an average student. But you're doing this in the long run for the Lord that's way above average. But I had to come down from my high horse on that just a little bit.
Greg:Let's just get through this and then we'll be okay.
T.J.:Well, and let me clarify for a minute, I should have done this earlier. The program of alternate studies is a pathway for ordination to the word and the sacraments in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. Someone who is called can go to a graduate school of theology. Another path is to program of alternate studies. Greg's path was program of alternate studies.
T.J.:And that's why I was curious, you know, how challenging challenging that is for you, for the busy person that you are and were at that time.
Greg:Sure. And that and I accepted a church in Edmondson County, Kentucky, and had not started my POS program. This was in 02/2012.
T.J.:Alright.
Greg:Okay? I never took my first POS class till 02/2015.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:Because for one reason or another, they lost the paperwork. It took approval to go through, you know, the the presbytery has to meet with you and then you had to get approved. It was just such a long process and then and then they lost the paperwork again.
T.J.:Oh, wow. Wow.
Greg:So, in that process, I was beginning to question, I missing something? Am I really supposed to be doing this? But it also allowed me through that process to finish up my baseball career to say, okay, I've got that out of the way. I was able to coach my son. Okay.
Greg:Got that out of the way. And not that I was trying to get it out of the way. I just didn't know at the time. Okay?
T.J.:You needed to kind of shed some of these things that you were doing so that you could focus
Greg:on That's right. That's exactly right. And and then once that happened, and and guess what? I was working in the broadcast business, and whenever I would leave and go to Memphis for those pause classes or whatever, they allowed me to use back to back weeks.
T.J.:Oh, wow.
Greg:Which it and and a lot of businesses will not let you take back to back weeks on vacation because you're just away from the business too long.
T.J.:Right.
Greg:But they would allow me to do that. Nice. And there's nothing like sleeping in a twin bed in a dorm room. You know, I was sick. I was literally sick to my stomach.
Greg:The the first week that I was there ever. It just tore me up from the floor up. And It was a bit but it grew me.
T.J.:Yeah. It was
Greg:a big Yeah. Your routine
T.J.:was turned upside down. You were, you know, starting a new adventure, and you're gonna have to write, read, study,
Greg:speak. Exactly. Yeah. And and it's we weren't living out in the forest. Okay?
Greg:We had running water, bathrooms, all of that, but it it still was not home. And and it wasn't, I didn't feel like I was in control and had more food than I had at home. You eat all the time at Potts. So whenever you went in person, I think a lot of it now is more online. But
T.J.:Well, overall okay. Now now that the preparation, the education for ordination is behind you, overall, how was that experience for you and helping you in what you're doing today?
Greg:It it was crucial. It was crucial. It it it taught me how to use God's holy word. Okay? At the time, I didn't know that.
Greg:It also taught me that, hey, this ethics class, it doesn't just stop here. We have just give you a grain of sand. You're going to have to desire to keep going into pastoral ethics and people ethics. I could go on and on about all of those classes, each and every one. Pat Pickett's, the disciples class, Pat Pickett's, the the Psalms, all of those classes like that.
Greg:It it's not a one time read. And the and the Lord's word is not a one time read. You can't just get it out of one part of it. And I feel like I'm preaching a little bit, but it I look back, and I don't know why God didn't strike me dead out of the pulpit of some of the sermons that I preached early. Okay?
Greg:He his grace is definitely big. I can contest that.
T.J.:That's why I'm laughing is still Yeah. Yeah. Whether in the preparation or delivery, the failures are on me. Amen.
Greg:Me too. And and and I've been gracious enough to be surrounded by elders that helped me, a family that supported me. And guess what? Like it or not, whenever you get me, we're a close enough family, you get us all. You know, my daughter is so inspirational and she has her own pages and she's wrote for the CP Magazine before and evotionals and things like that.
Greg:And she'd been born and raised Kungwon Presbyterian. That's all she knows. And so very blessed. My wife, super talented teacher and can write her own curriculum for VBS and has done that for the last two years. And we like serving TJ, and that's part of what the schooling was even as bad as I hated it.
Greg:It's crucial, and I see the importance of continuing education.
T.J.:Alright. Let me do an experiment with you. With your background in broadcasting and your marketing in terms of, articulating and expressing ideas in a concise way, In thirty seconds or less, describe, the church that you're currently serving, Liberty Cumberland Presbyterian Church in McMinnville, Tennessee, in a way that the listener knows nothing about the congregation and why would they even be interested. You can take a second if you need it. Just kind of formulate your ideas.
T.J.:But I thought I would throw this challenge at you. It's it's also a transition in our conversation as well.
Greg:Sure. Sure. I'm not timing. I'm not timing. This would be this would be really really this would be really really rough, but it it would probably start out something like this.
Greg:Well, greetings, everyone. This is Greg Bowen from the Liberty Cumberland Presbyterian Church. So nice to be in front of you this afternoon. Just wanna take the opportunity to share with you. Hey.
Greg:Are you looking for something fun? Are you looking for something that will help you get through the week? Are you tired of just coffee and Red Bull? How about the Lord Jesus Christ? Every Sunday we have services.
Greg:We have Sunday school at 10AM, worship service at eleven. We'd love for you to come and be a part of that. You can even come hungry. We've got donuts and coffee. We'd love to share with you, but most of all, we just love to share with you and your family to help you get through what sometimes we just don't know how we're going to make it through the storm.
Greg:We can help you get through that storm because we know a God, and that god is Jesus Christ. Come visit us. 317 Liberty Lane, McMinnville, Tennessee. Hope to see you soon. God bless.
T.J.:Greg, that is scary good. That is scary.
Greg:Know about that. But
T.J.:For off the cuff, I mean, you didn't know I was gonna ask you. I didn't know I was gonna ask you that. So that was not rehearsed. So, alright. You you now have it on recording.
T.J.:So, this gets published. You can play it back and thinker with it and publish it somewhere else.
Greg:Take that to the local radio station or something. You
T.J.:know? Or TikTok or it's already made. Alright. Let's expand the conversation out a bit. So we talked about liberty.
T.J.:You you introduced liberty. What makes it unique? Let's talk about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church as a denomination. What do you think are some of its strengths, and what are your hopes for the church moving into the future?
Greg:Denomination wise. Correct? Correct. We're talking denomination.
T.J.:Church large. Cumberland Presbyter at large.
Greg:Denomination wise, there's a reason why I stay connected to the Cumberland Presbyterian Church because I truly believe it is what its confession of faith says. We are a connectional church and we want to be like Christ. Come, be a part of us. Okay? And let's grow together.
Greg:I'm a prime example of that. Okay? That we don't have to come ready. Perfect. Okay?
Greg:We just have to come be willing to change and move closer in a relationship with it. Man, that's what draws me so much. And there's other denominations that say, yeah, we believe that too. Well, until I don't dress like you do or believe everything that you believe, you know? And there's room for modification in there just a little bit.
Greg:Okay? Teaching wise, and not that we're taking anything from the scripture. I'm saying we don't hold you to the exact standard of how we take communion or baptism. Big one, okay, that people like to fight about. So that's why I'm so involved and connected to the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination.
Greg:Plus, my wife gave me the ultimatum. No. No, she didn't. She couldn't. Looking into the
T.J.:future, what are some aspirations and hopes that you have for the denomination? The church at large.
Greg:Sure. Sure. And and please hear me whenever I make this statement. I would like to see us become more engaged with some plant churches in the areas that are heavily populated. Okay?
Greg:Now, we are doing well in other countries really spreading the word of god and people are becoming Cumberland Presbyterians. Okay? But most of all, they're becoming followers of Jesus Christ. Mhmm. And I think if our denomination will will shift that focus just a little bit, and we wouldn't have to turn the heat up much that that we we shift the focus to to going into concentrated areas and repeating the message of drawing people in just like a just like a commercial.
Greg:Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. People will come to know the Lord. And people will it it will help grow our denomination.
Greg:And that's what concerns me about our denomination. Especially if we can't come to some type of unity off of some of our conflicts. Guess what? TJ, you and I don't have to agree on everything. And we can still like each other.
Greg:And we can still be on podcast together. And we can still sit down and eat together and things like that. What we can't do is say, TJ, he believes that way. So I'm done with him.
T.J.:Right.
Greg:You know, and, but that's what Satan wants. The devil works in a way that he he's looking to to spread people, and he's done that most of all with families.
T.J.:Yeah. There's a long list of reasons why you wouldn't want to hang out with me.
Greg:Me as well.
T.J.:Just ask anyone in my family.
Greg:Help me out. Me as
T.J.:well. I hear what you're saying in terms of not to make light of it. But, yeah, that's the easy part. The hard part is I think working together.
Greg:Sure. Absolutely. Yeah.
T.J.:No one told me it would be easy.
Greg:Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Guess what? Whenever we are going through the motions of trying to help people, we're back yet again to the example.
Greg:The example. And guilty as charged, You know, sometimes we have to look at ourselves and that's why the importance of staying in the word, staying in ourselves, staying connected to our Lord helps us evaluate that and quit judging so many other people and yeah, I I know all that sounds like on repeat but that that's that's how I feel about it and and I and I love the intentionality of just being focused on God's will and God's plan.
T.J.:Greg, to wrap up our conversation, can you name a song or a album and or a movie that you've watched that has impacted your faith, made your faith a little bit stronger, spoke to you in a particular way?
Greg:My worship leader, piano player at the church that I came from, Mount Pleasant in Kentucky, and then even down here. Surely the presence of the Lord is in this place. Okay? And that that song was not just wrote about the presence of the Lord is just shows up on Sunday. It's it's talking about us personally.
Greg:Mhmm. Surely the presence of the Lord is in this place. Even though I don't deserve him to be with me. He's still with me. And even whenever I'm messing up, even whenever I I'm misquoting scripture, surely the presence of the Lord is in this place.
Greg:And that is just so powerful to me. And so that's a song that that continues to move me to this day. Whenever it's sung in church or I hear it on the radio and I play it often to remind me. He's with you even through the troubled times.
T.J.:Any movie?
Greg:I I'm not a big movie guy.
T.J.:Alright. I was expecting some sort of baseball movie.
Greg:Yeah. No. I love all of those and everything, but I I
T.J.:Well, man, I'll help bail you out. Know, a man Okay. If you probably didn't have time to sit down and watch an entire film. If you like me, will take me three days to get through a film.
Greg:Yeah. And I'm a big, I like lines and things like that or whatever. You would call me crazy. Do you know how a lot of times I calm my mind of a night?
T.J.:No. What do you do?
Greg:Watch Andy Griffith.
T.J.:Okay. Alright.
Greg:Now I'd be a hard stump on an Andy Griffith quiz, but I I it just calms me. There's there's no there's no gunshots in it except for Barney's every now and then. But there's no killing. It's light humor. And there's a lot of times I've never even watched it because I've seen it so many times.
Greg:I can tell you what's playing in my mind or what's on the screen. But I just, I just listened to it because it removes me from, and, and, but if I were to show the audience my playlist, I might be excommunicated. I don't know. Because I listen to a lot of music and things like that whenever I'm working and those type deals. I, If I were to listen, I have to be locked in to your podcast.
Greg:Uh-huh. Okay? I can't think about other things.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:Okay? But I can listen to Andy Griffith and think about other things and be doing other things and not mess it up too bad.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:But if but if I'm listening to that, I can't turn around and, you know, be engaged in something and be productive. That that's my single sided mind, I guess.
T.J.:Well, Greg, when this podcast, this conversation comes out, are you gonna listen to yourself?
Greg:Maybe partially.
T.J.:It's hard.
Greg:It it is. I I mean, I try to every Sunday, I try to go back and listen to what I've done, how bad I've messed it up. And then I'm like, well, it's done out there now. There's nothing I can do about it. So I've never listened to the entire sermon.
T.J.:Okay.
Greg:They would have to take that fast forward button off my iPhone to
T.J.:do that.
Greg:I I just struggle with that part of it. I I think I think I've noticed something, and you've revealed to me today about yourself. We are self conscious people. We we we would like to everything to be perfect and if it tears up, I can fix it.
T.J.:Yeah.
Greg:And just sometimes we just can't fix it. And even through your editing, whenever you get through today, you won't be able to fix all of my mistakes.
T.J.:Yeah. I, you know, I'm yeah. I'm learning. I I don't edit for content, and I don't see my goal as well fixing you.
Greg:Yeah.
T.J.:And I'm not
Greg:But I would.
T.J.:On fixing me. So
Greg:Yeah. Yeah. But I would, though. You know?
T.J.:You know, the Cumberland Road is two people having a faith conversation about god and the hopes that those who listen to it may have a deeper sense of how god is moving in the world. And that's an imperfect conversation.
Greg:Yeah.
T.J.:I try to clean background noise, breaks. We took a break earlier, of course. But other than that, I mean, I don't know where people are when they're listening. I hope they enjoy, and I hope they get something out of each and every guest. I know that I do.
Greg:True. Amen to that.
T.J.:Thank you so much for giving me most of your morning to be able to have this this time, your your faith journey. And I've glad to get to know you better. And
Greg:Man, I've enjoyed it.
T.J.:I know. Yeah. We have crossed paths several times, but never really sat down had had an opportunity to sit down and have a deep discussion like today.
Greg:True.
T.J.:I'm glad you're able to.
Greg:Can I can I share what I share with my congregation 99.9% of the time? And And it's just, it's became my motto just a little bit, I guess, through scripture.
T.J.:Let's hear it.
Greg:But it's all based out of number six and I truly believe this. Okay? And I pray this for all of my people, and I pray it for you. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May His face shine graciously down upon you and all of your podcasts and all of your ministry.
Greg:But most of all, TJ, I pray he gives you peace.
T.J.:Thank you, Greg.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road. Greg's journey reminded me of a passage from Leo Roston, a writer and humorist, in his book From Passions and Prejudices. I cannot believe that the purpose of life is to be happy. I think the purpose of life is to be useful, to be responsible, to be honorable, to be compassionate. It is, above all, to matter, to count, to stand for something, to have it make some difference that you lived at all. Thanks for listening.
