Gwen Roddye - Everyone's Invited
Exploring faith journeys and sharing inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. You are listening to the Cumberland Road. I am your host, TJ Malinoski. Former General Assembly Moderator of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, active member at the Beavercreek Church in Powell, Tennessee, and an all around joy to be in her presence, Gwen Roddye is today's guest. Gwen shares during our time together of her growing relationship with God, how it means not having to meet a particular standard, to receive God's love, but to be the person that we are, for God welcomes and invites everyone. In this relationship, Gwen finds comfort knowing God is present in the everyday and especially during challenging times. She even poses a question towards the end of our time together that is both challenging and worth pondering. She asked, what are we doing with the gifts and the talents that we do have? You are listening to the Cumberland Road podcast, and this is my conversation with Gwen Roddye.
T.J.:Hello, Gwen. Welcome to the Cumberland Road podcast.
Gwen:Hi, TJ. Thanks for having me on.
T.J.:Way back in 1999, you became the moderator of the General Assembly of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. I was looking, through the records, and it appears that you were the second female moderator. And, the second female moderator, and it had been, I don't know, 10 or 12 years since the first. So what was that experience like?
Gwen:Well, it was, first of all, quite an honor. You know, it was really a wonderful experience. I had been active at a denominational level for a while. I was on the general assembly council and, you know, had been able to be involved in the work of the general nomination in that way. So I understood a little.
Gwen:But I have to say, it's still kind of this overwhelming this overwhelming realization of what you're facing and realizing all the things you're not very well prepared for. I'm just gonna say, you know. The thing I had not thought about because I'm not a minister and I don't typically, you know, preach or speak in churches was everywhere you go, they're gonna expect you to deliver a message, you know. And and so that was, that was, I think the part I was least prepared for, but, but it was great. And I have to say, you know, my only experience at the Cumberland Presbyterian Church in a congregation has been at Beavercreek in Knoxville.
Gwen:And, that opportunity to travel on behalf of the church really gave me this broader perspective of the denomination. You know, I really was able to see I told somebody one time, if you remember that old poem about the blind man and the elephant, and, how they perceive the elephant just depended entirely on what part of the elephant they had a hold of. You know, if they were on the side, it it felt like a big flat wall. But if they had its tail, it felt like a snake. And, you know, this idea that that I had a handle on the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Gwen:Oh, yeah. I was just feeling my way along. So I learned a lot. I learned a lot.
T.J.:Have you always lived in the East Tennessee area?
Gwen:No. I was raised in West Kentucky, a little town, La Center, about 20 miles west of Paducah. And, when I met and married my husband, we lived in a few cities in the southeast, with his work. And then we moved here to Knoxville in, 1976, the end of 1976. And so we've been here ever since.
Gwen:And we moved, to West Knoxville. It was a couple of years later before we moved over to that part of Knoxville where we live now and and started attending at Beavercreek, which is kind of an interesting story. The person we built our house that built our house and we bought this house in Powell. He said, well, I'll sell you the house. He said, but I just have one requirement.
Gwen:And we said, okay. What is that? And he said, you have to come to my church one time. And we said, well, okay. You know?
Gwen:We want the house. So and and we ended up at Beavercreek, and it has been home ever since. Wow. Been great. Yeah.
T.J.:So it's Yeah.
Gwen:I think that just says how important it is to, you know, invite people, you know, tell people just go to a church one time. You just have to come one time.
T.J.:What is it about the Beavercreek Church that has led you to stay?
Gwen:Well, I think I can tell you what led me to stay initially. We knew a couple of people and that's always nice to know a couple of people there. And it was a very warm and welcoming environment. But for me personally, it was something a little more complex. I was raised in, a different denomination.
Gwen:And I the the church, I when I was about, I'd say, 11, I professed faith. I mean, I really had this deep yearning to invite Jesus into my heart. You know, I really wanted that for myself. But it's interesting that in that particular church, I don't I can't say that it's true of that whole denomination, but in that particular church, you sort of shift to a different place once you be become official, you know, once you have made that profession. And and and I always felt like I was not making the cut.
Gwen:Like, God was expecting a lot more of me. And I mean, I was 11. How bad could I really be? You know what I mean? But there was this sort of, you know, I can remember on the Sundays when there would be the Lord's supper.
Gwen:And there was this general sense in as we sat there in the church and the elements were covered with a white cloth on the communion table. There was sort of this general sense of dread, and it was really about you knew the message was gonna be examine your heart because you have got to qualify for this. Now that's what that felt like. That might not have been. What was that might not have been what he was trying to say, but that's what I got.
Gwen:And there was this sort of real discomfort. I mean, I just I dreaded it because I didn't think I was. If if you can picture God with God's arms folded across the chest unwelcoming. That is what that felt like to me. Like, yeah.
Gwen:Haven't proved yourself yet. You got a long way to go, sister. You know? Well, the first Sunday we went to Beavercreek to visit, it was communion Sunday. And what I remember was the pastor saying, welcome.
Gwen:Everyone's invited. And it just felt like God opened his arms. You know? I didn't have to approve my self. I didn't have to qualify.
Gwen:I didn't have to have, you know, a membership card. You know, it just felt and I thought to myself, this is what I've been thinking it was supposed to be like. This is what this is supposed to be. And I I mean, it was, that that moment was so meaningful to me.
T.J.:So you carried from 11 years old into adulthood this question of worthiness Oh. To to approach the table.
Gwen:Absolutely. Absolutely. And and from that moment, everything changed. You know, there's just that there's just that feeling that if you can never be good enough, if you can never qualify. And finally, I understood I don't have to qualify.
Gwen:God receives. You know? God welcomes. I don't maybe that's sort of shallow. It just was meaningful to me.
T.J.:No. I think it it brings in that, that fact of grace instead of, hitting these checklists of approval. It really is a come as you are. Incomplete, broken, troubled, complex. I'm gonna take you as you are as a child.
T.J.:I think that's very telling, because the alternative, oh my goodness, constantly be burdened by guilt and, fear and anxiety. So Exactly. What did it feel like to have some of those emotions kind of drift away when during that time.
Gwen:Oh, it was wonderful. And it really changes your whole perspective, I think, about about your experience of church, certainly, but also about your relationship with God. You know, when you think I mean, I mean, I think God does want us to work on ourselves, you know, really. But I don't have to meet a standard to be loved, you know. And I think that's just a really important message for me personally, but I think it's an important important message for us as a church.
Gwen:You know, the people don't have to meet my standard for God to love them. You know, I could preach on that one.
T.J.:And that really reverses the, perspective because, you you know, there's a judgmental aspect of going, well, you know, how I understand God, you don't meet the criteria. But you flipped it around and going, well, God loves you and therefore I'm going to work my hardest to love you in the same way.
Gwen:Mhmm. Mhmm. You know.
T.J.:I think, if I could define Christian discipleship, or a Christian disciple, I would say that a disciple is a person whose work is a work in progress. Because I'm constantly a work in progress. I'm not the same person I was 3 years ago.
Gwen:No. Right. Right. I agree.
T.J.:We were talking, we opened up about, being a moderator. Anything else you wanted to add to that experience?
Gwen:I think that it it was one of those times that year was, more stressful than I had anticipated in terms of what it cost my family
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gwen:For me to be away a lot. My children were in high school. It was, you know, I didn't really understand the cost. And because of that, my husband could never travel with me because we had teenagers at home. So, it also taught me, you know, got got me through some kind of stressful, difficult moments when, you know, like at the time I was standing in the Fort Worth Dallas Fort Worth Airport trying to figure out how to get to my hotel and thinking I am not capable of this.
Gwen:I can't figure this out. And yet I got there, you know, and and so, you do learn to be a little bit more, I I think confident that, you know, the answers come. Just hang in there. You'll figure it out because God's gonna help you with this.
T.J.:Yeah. There is, that reliance on God and and the reliance on others as well of people you've never met that fall under the Cumberland Presbyterian umbrella and be like, oh, well, Gwen, I'll come and pick you up at the airport.
Gwen:Yes.
T.J.:Yeah.
Gwen:And there were some incredibly helpful, loving, supportive people along the way that absolutely, you know, I could not have managed without. A a time or 2, I went to places where maybe I was getting on an airplane that was, like, a 6 seat airplane, and I was thinking and there's no room for, like, anything but my purse. You know? I know. And I was like, well, it's all good.
Gwen:And it was. I mean but but that was, like, totally outside my previous experience. It it pushed me to try and do some things on my own that I hadn't had to do before. So it was good. It was a good learning.
Gwen:And again, the fact that Cumberland Presbyterian are all so different and yet so the same, you know? Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah, we are. Yeah. Gwen, can you recall a meaningful experience, a meaningful encounter that you've had with God?
Gwen:So I can I can tell you about an experience where, I I did not, in any way doubt God's presence? You know, you just knew God was there. Our church, this was I can't even tell you exactly what year. It would have been over 25 years ago. Our pastor had lived and our our associate pastor had been preaching and handling all the duties at the church while we searched for a new pastor.
Gwen:And this went on for, like, 18 or 19 months. That's a long time to conduct a search and be looking. And I was on the search, committee, and it was just and and our associate pastor, I can't say enough good things about him because he just really he just really rose to the challenge, but he didn't wanna be the pastor. You know? That wasn't his role.
Gwen:And so, so he was ready. We were all ready. And we, just by sheer accident, got, information about Thomas Sweet. And, in those days, people sent little cassette tapes of messages, you know, when we got little cassette tape of one of his sermons and listened to it. And we were pretty impressed and just sitting there at church and somebody said, well, let's go call him.
Gwen:So somebody and said, you know, could you come and preach a Sunday sermon? And he said, no, I don't really feel like I could. He said, now I could preach a Wednesday night. Now now you need to know this is like a probably a Sunday afternoon when we're having this meeting. And he said, I could come this Tuesday and stay long enough to preach Wednesday night.
Gwen:And I also need you to know that at Beaver Creek, we don't like half preaching on Wednesday night, so that's kinda that was kinda but we said, okay. Okay. Okay. We'll do that. We'll do that.
Gwen:And so we just it was before days of, like, phone trees or email and all that stuff. So we just, like, all got on the phone and said, hey. We're gonna have church Wednesday night. There's gonna be a preacher here. And to tell you that, like, 300 people showed up on a Wednesday night for church at Beavercreek.
Gwen:And the air was electric with the Holy Spirit. I have never been in an environment where I where I saw it was so obvious to me the Holy Spirit was right there crackling amongst us. You know what I'm saying? And it was, just a beautiful it felt like a Sunday on Wednesday. It was a a beautiful service.
Gwen:And the moment the moment I knew we had our man was when, he did a children's time. And and I don't know how well you know Thomas, but he connects with children to this day so beautifully. And he had sat down on the on the stairs and the children were all coming up. And this one little boy was running up the aisle and, his shoe fell off and he fell. And he fell hard enough that you heard this real hard thud, and everybody gasped because they thought the next thing we're gonna hear is a scream.
Gwen:But before that child could even cry, Thomas was on his feet down the aisle and it picked him up. And he picked up the shoe and he went and sat on the stairs. And just for a little while, he just whispered to that little boy, put his shoe on and tied his shoe. It was just that, it was just that moment. And really to me, that was like one of those God moments where I actually saw God acting through Thomas, you know, that was to me, that's how God acts, you know, just picks us up and whispers in our ear and fixes what's wrong.
Gwen:And anyway, it was one of those moments when I do think though that for me, lots of times, the I used to think that I wanted God to, you know, I would tell people, I just want that hand written on the wall. You know, that hand written on the wall? Except finally, I figured out that was not good news. You know, that hand written on the wall was not a good message. And so most of my messages from God, I think, come from individuals who may not even be realizing they're delivering this powerful message to me, you know?
Gwen:So, well
T.J.:Yeah. And I think sometimes, when that message is before us, that news is before us, at least for me, it's in retrospect. I'm reflecting back and like, oh, you know, I have the moment, the epiphany moment Yeah. Later.
Gwen:A moment of clarity. You know, when that moment of clarity comes from, you know, what God's directing me towards. But it came through somebody else. You know? Yeah.
Gwen:Yeah. Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. Which can be very powerful. You know?
Gwen:I think so.
T.J.:Yeah. Seeing human interaction thing.
Gwen:Doesn't that say something about our yes. And doesn't it say something about our role in other people's lives? We may be we may, at any time, be delivering some message. You know, there may be something God's using us to communicate to somebody else. You know?
T.J.:That's both enlightening and scary.
Gwen:Alarm lightning. Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree.
Gwen:But it I agree.
T.J.:But it, well, what it can do is it can make us kind of pause and really think through what our words and our actions convey before we just spout it out. Yes. Or, or you end up being like me and you end up constantly apologizing. Oh, that wasn't funny. Yes.
T.J.:Or Yes. Oh, that wasn't appropriate. Yes.
Gwen:It's it's really interesting. When my children each got married, I gave them one one piece of advice, and that is this. You cannot unring a bell. So, and I think that's true with all of our interactions with people. Don't say something that you're going to later think, you know, I wish I could take that back because you can't ever take that back, you know?
T.J.:Yeah. What is it about the Christian faith that centers you, that keeps you whole? And why, why have you remained in, in the Christian faith over the years? Because it's pretty easy to find ways of stepping back, especially if we look at at the institutional side of, of the Christian faith and of Christianity, we can find many reasons not to be attached to it and maybe even repelled by some of our movements and decisions. But Gwen, for you, what is it about this faith that enriches you and that you have attached yourself to it over the years?
Gwen:Well, I will say I always wonder what people do with the complicated things, with the hard things in their life. If they don't have God to turn to. I I really wonder about that. You know, how do you face family traumas and turmoils and how do you deal with cancer or death or, you know, how do people do that? I read an article in the paper one time that was, a psychologist a child psychologist, and she was talking about helping children deal with stress and difficult things.
Gwen:And she said, best thing you can do is take them to church. And she said, and sometimes parents will say, but I don't personally believe. And she said, well, then you just need to lie to them because they need it. They need that. We just need to think that there's this higher being, you know, and I just I think that's what I need.
Gwen:I need to know God is there, in the everyday, but especially, you know, I think those challenging times, those tough times.
T.J.:Well, having God's presence there, what does that bring you? What is it about God's presence that that enlightens you, that encourages you?
Gwen:I think it gives me a kind of confidence that that what needs to happen, if I just turn it over to God, that what needs to happen will happen. It might not be what I think needs to happen. It might not be the answer I hope I'll get. You know, my dearest friend had ovarian cancer and died at a young age. And, she just demonstrated to me the whole way that this is really okay because I'm in God's hands, and, you know, the outcome here is good regardless.
Gwen:And that was a great demonstration for me of how of how, you know, being able to lean on God makes a difference.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Gwen:You know?
T.J.:Yeah. I've experienced in my own family and watched in others that sense of calmness and wisdom and maturity. I don't know if I have that in me. I'm afraid I'd be one of those kicking and screaming and and maybe after I exhausted myself. But I don't know if I'm in that same mindset as your friend.
Gwen:Well, I don't know if I would be either, but I know God would be accepting of whatever mindset I was in, you know, and would help me in that. You know?
T.J.:One of the things that you have been very active in and have impacted lots of people's lives is through the Weight Watchers program. Could you describe briefly what that is and and how you're involved?
Gwen:Sure. So I went to Weight Watchers. I joined 40 years ago and lost £80, and I have worked for them ever since. I will say things are very different now at Weight Watchers than they were 40 years ago because, because in those days we had to eat liver and you don't have to do that anymore. So one of the things I think that's because I've seen the, I've seen the whole Weight Watchers program evolve.
Gwen:It's really about a healthy approach to wellness. So it does involve eating healthfully and sleeping adequately and being active and, and a positive, helpful mindset. And we, we really help people develop skills around it. So often people think that weight loss is the goal. Weight loss is the result.
Gwen:The goal is change. And so when we help people change behaviors and change the way they think about themselves and, and change the choices they make with eating, then they'll lose weight. That's what happens. But the real success is in those changes. And so that's what I see myself as being there to do.
Gwen:You know, in some ways I think of it, as a stewardship issue. God gave us all a body, and there is we have some responsibility to take good care of it. And so, you know, I can't stand up in Weight Watchers and preach that, but I think people, experience that through me. Do you know what I mean? Mhmm.
Gwen:And I also think in some ways, I try to people come in so often so unhappy within themselves, so, humiliated by their weight or embarrassed or feeling so judged. They need to come someplace where, you know, somebody says, you are wonderful. And these things you're going to do for yourself, you're doing for your yourself because you're wonderful and wonderfully made, not because you're not satisfactory. You know? It's the more miserable we are, the less likely we are to make a positive change.
Gwen:If we construct to love ourselves exactly where we are, then we value a positive change because we're worth it. How much effort do you go to for somebody you don't like very much? That's what I tell people all the time. So you've gotta really like yourself, love yourself in order to do do these kind of challenging difficult things.
T.J.:And that doesn't happen overnight.
Gwen:Oh, no. It's a process. It's it's you know, people and that and, unfortunately, I think that complicates it because so many places advertise rapid weight loss and, you know, make these changes and but but but something. Has anybody really changed if they've just done something so dramatic that they're not gonna be able to sustain it? You know, it can't be a means to an end.
Gwen:It's a new path. It's just a new direction. And I try to tell people all the time that the key is change as little as necessary. Don't see how big a change you can make. See how little a change you can make and still see success and still feel pleased with your progress.
T.J.:So, what is your role in the Weight Watchers program?
Gwen:So, I am a, a coach. Conduct the workshops and lead group meetings. So, we have conversations about member successes and challenges. And and we also, every week, address a very specific topic and skill, related to these sort of what we call the 4 pillars, the sleep and mindset and eating and activity, so that people gain skills that build on each other. You know, we we continually review these things and build on on previous skills.
Gwen:I think sometimes my main role is just to let people know they're normal. They're gonna be successful. They have what it takes to do this, you know, encouragement.
T.J.:Do you see this as a ministry? Because Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You're really getting involved or have the opportunity to become involved in people's lives And the, I would say there's a sense of bravery to start the program, but with that bravery, you're very vulnerable, I would think.
Gwen:And it
T.J.:would just take the right, or excuse me, the wrong look or expression or word. And that that would be all that I would need to go, to I'm out and and to walk away.
Gwen:You know, I sometimes think that my biggest my biggest role is just to love on them, just to let them know. You know? I mean, because it's so nice for people to come into a place where everybody in that room has the same objectives and that is to be healthier, to do things that are gonna help them be their best self in a in that sort of physical place, you know. It's, I feel like it's been a gift to me. And I in many ways feel like my weight was, my overweight was actually probably one of the very best things that ever happened to me because it gave me this, this opportunity to to experience change and to understand change a little bit that it can be accomplished and then to guide people as they change.
Gwen:You know, it's it's a it's a it's a blessing to me. I always feel like I get more than they get. So
T.J.:Right. So Gwen, from your perspective, how does the physical, caring for ourselves and the mental caring for ourselves, how does that speak to our faith? Or how does our, to reverse it, does our faith speak for caring for ourselves, I think, spiritually, mentally, and physically?
Gwen:I I still say I think it's a stewardship issue. God gave us this and and, and wants us to be our best self, you know, wants us to be healthy and fit and and to control the things we can control. I mean, not everybody gets to control everything. We know that. But to control the parts of this that I can, that's not responsibility.
Gwen:I mean, it's like it's like he gave me those those talents in the Bible. You know? What are you gonna do with them? You know? Yeah.
Gwen:Are you gonna make the most of this? Because that's what I'm giving it to you for. And, I just think that's really powerful. I also think there's that connection to the fact that, we don't have to prove ourselves to God. We don't have to, you know, that God loves us.
Gwen:God accepts us and wants us. And so sort of that, that acceptance is a, is a key piece of this. I think, you know, I have to accept me, is this what I, you know, sometimes I could criticize, I don't look like so and so, or I'm not, you know, as physically fit as somebody else. But my job is not to be either one of those people. My job is to be the best me I can be, you know.
T.J.:Have you ever heard a sermon that addresses the stewardship of our physical bodies, kinda in the way that we're talking about?
Gwen:I can't say that I have, but it sure would be a good one. Wouldn't it? Don't you think?
T.J.:Yeah. It just crossed my mind as we were talking. And then Yeah. I'm wondering, also, I've never researched it, but is there materials, is there books out there that are intertwining, you know, the Christian faith and, a healthy perspective.
Gwen:Yeah. You will find a lot of those. Yes. You will find a lot of those kinds of resources. And even things like just devotional books, daily devotional books that just have, a devotion for every day related to this, caring for your body and, you know, being healthy and making good choices.
Gwen:And I think sometimes when we hear sermons, they may be more about what not to do. You know? But I try to tell people all the time, it's really more about what to do than what not to do. You know? I think, you know, I'm a person who believes moderation and all things in terms of foods.
Gwen:You know, there's no bad food. We can figure out how to fit it in. It's about balance and choice and, and intentionality. You know, I think, I always try to tell people it's it's really fun to indulge yourself with something special, but you wanna do that on purpose. You don't wanna have remorse or regret about something you made.
Gwen:Because the moment you have remorse or regret, you have totally negated whatever joy you got from the food. And I think God wants food to be joyful for us. You know, God God this is a gift, you know, food. A lot of people wish they had it. Right?
Gwen:And so Yeah. You know, we should find joy in it.
T.J.:Do you have any book recommendations pertaining to devotions or studies or that pertain to health and steward the stewardship of our body and, scripture, faith?
Gwen:Can't say that I do off offhand, TJ. I should have had the foresight to come up with some titles for you, but I don't. I'm sorry.
T.J.:Hey. That's okay. If you think of some later, we can, I'll put them down in the liner notes of the podcast
Gwen:Okay. That's great.
T.J.:For people to to look at those.
Gwen:That's great. That's great.
T.J.:Gwen, where do you see God working in your life right now? You as an individual and within your family.
Gwen:Well, I think we're you know, it's interesting. My husband and I are at a place in our life where our children are grown, and now our grandsons just about grown. And so it does free you up some to to dedicate more time to, to things. I value those opportunities to serve others. I always consider myself more of a Martha than a Mary.
Gwen:You know what I mean? And so I feel like I'm always at my best when I'm doing something. We had a, interesting this is something I recognize my about myself about. There was our church sometimes has people homeless people who will, temporarily park in our parking lot or, you know, something like that. They might be residing in their car.
Gwen:I mean, we try to be as welcoming a place as possible, but we also have a mother's day out program. And those parents are not always comfortable if there's, you know, a homeless person parked in a car right there by the playground. And so one day, our director, the, the, Mother's Day Out director, there was a couple parked in their car and they had, they piled some of their stuff out on the parking lot. And she said, I'm gonna need to go over and ask these people to move for a while while the kids are here on the playground. And I said, well, I'll go over with you.
Gwen:So we went over and, and she just said, I'm I'm sorry to have to ask you to move, but the children are coming out to the playground and we're gonna just need you to move your car. You're welcome to come back later. You know? And then she also asked, is there anything we can do to give you some additional support or whatever? And and they didn't ask for any help, and they said, oh, we'll move right now.
Gwen:And they did, and they didn't come back. But as we walked back toward the church, she was weeping with great compassion for these people. And I realized that I had great compassion for those people, but I had a totally different feeling because my feeling was, frustration that I couldn't fix it. I just wanted to fix it for them so badly. You know?
Gwen:It's something I recognize in myself. So I think I feel like I'm serving best when I'm doing something proactive. Let's do something. Let's make it better. So we're right now itching.
Gwen:Well, go ahead. Go ahead.
T.J.:Well, I was gonna ask, what do you do with those feelings of frustration when you're faced with something that cannot be fixed or repaired?
Gwen:Oh, I had to turn that over to God a lot because that's you know, we recently installed a blessing box at church where we put in food and diapers and stuff like that. And, the 1st month it was in there, I said, well, my husband and I will take care of making sure it's stocked. You know? We live close about a block from the church, and and, like, you could just tell. We go every morning and somebody just I mean, it was just cleaned out.
Gwen:And we had stuff to put in it. It was, but I just felt this like, oh my goodness. If somebody cleans it out and then someone else comes in and it's empty, you know, what do you do? And so I just had to accept. We can only just keep refilling it.
Gwen:It's all we can do. You know, that's all I know we can do. Right. That's hard. That's that's really hard.
Gwen:Right now, we're also dealing with a church as I think probably every church in maybe the world is dealing with is sort of what does, what does our congregation look like now? We're you know, we we started live streaming during the COVID pandemic, and then we came back to church, but we're still live streaming, which I perceive we will continue forever because we found that really is a great way to reach. You know? But it's also been this sort of it's like this, time when, okay, we just feel this restless need for something. It's both an opportunity and this sort of restlessness about some kind of change.
Gwen:It may not need to go back to what it was, you know, and we might not could make it go back to what it was. So how do we have a well thought out plan for how we best serve God here now. You know? What does that need to look like in terms of our worship and our Sunday school and our, other activities? So I'm really engaged in all that right now too.
T.J.:I I'm glad that the Universal Church is kinda going through this, discernment of identity because I think for many congregations and for many Christians, this is the first time in a long time, if ever, where we're truly and authentically asking, how can I, how can we better serve God? And,
Gwen:Right. And and there's an excitement to that. For some people, there's just anxiety associated with that, when they realize it doesn't look like it used to look. But but it's very exciting. My daddy used to say he said, you know the problem with church?
Gwen:He said, we're all down there huddled around Jesus and not letting him out. You know? So I think there's some of that. Maybe this is an opportunity to let Jesus out. You know?
T.J.:The question is jarring because it's not asked very often. So and and it is that kind of that letting control of, of what we think we have control over, and because we don't know where that will lead. To me, that's very freeing. We can experiment, we can try, we can have successes, we can have failures, but there's that movement, that proactiveness that you were talking about earlier that is very, very freeing. So I'm enlightened.
T.J.:I'm inspired by us, kind of in a collective voice, going, okay, How can we better serve God? Mhmm. And what will that look like?
Gwen:Mhmm.
T.J.:But also when you're dreaming, not everybody likes to dream. They like that
Gwen:to die. No. And if your identity is tightly tied to how you've done things, you know, if this is if this is your expression of your faith and it this is what my faith looks like, and this is this is how this looks, and now something's wallowed that all around and shaking it all up. It's unnerving sometimes. You know?
Gwen:Change is hard. No. Change is good. Transitions transitions are hard. That's what's hard.
T.J.:Well, talking about the church, that we're a part of, what hopes, what dreams do you have for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, moving into the future?
Gwen:Well, I have to say, I hope we can continue to allow for this sort of broad view that we've always been able to have. You know? That's the thing I learned when I traveled as moderator was all all of our congregations didn't look the same or have to be the same for us to still be a body of believers. And, I worry sometimes that in our trying to convict people of where they're wrong, we're missing the opportunity to to to present God's welcoming to them. Do you do you know what I'm saying?
Gwen:I I'm I'm not exactly sure. So I think it's really okay that we have people, in my opinion, that we as Cumberland Presbyterian may represent polls or, you know, that we're not gonna see things exactly right. That's the tension of being Christian and wanting to be a representative of God here on earth. And so, and so I'm kind of okay that we've got not everybody seeing the same thing, but I think we have to respect that there's room under this umbrella for different views.
T.J.:And there always has been.
Gwen:Yeah. I mean, that isn't that one of our great strengths? Isn't that why people come to us a lot of times from other denominations? Because they say, I like it that it's not so rigid here. You know?
Gwen:I like that. You know? Love God and love your neighbor.
T.J.:Those are wonderful and challenging.
Gwen:Yes. Yes. Yes.
T.J.:Gwen, you have been a great example for me and my ministry over the years. We've overlapped in many different areas, primarily in East Tennessee, in the Presbyterian, the work of the Presbyterian, and I've always appreciated your service. And I wonder, I wanted to ask you this before we close-up. Have you ever met a stranger? You just seem so friendly and approachable.
T.J.:No. It's a gift that not everybody I don't have it. But it's a gift not everybody has, but you do. Have you ever met a stranger?
Gwen:Do you know I'm embarrassed to admit. I struggle more with, if there are language barriers because I'm a you know, I like to talk. And if anything sort of interrupts my being able to talk to you, that makes it harder. But I think a smile and I think just, can say a lot, don't you? I think we can communicate a lot even when we're not speaking the same language.
T.J.:That's very true. Very true. Gwen, if folks wanted to reach out to you and continue to follow you on your faith journey, where would you like to point them?
Gwen:Well, they can always reach me at Beavercreek Cumberland Presbyterian Church because I'm there just about every day for something. But, certainly, there are folks there who would make sure I got a message. So Beavercreek Cumberland Presbyterian in Knoxville. It's great way to reach me.
T.J.:Alright. Thank you, Gwen, so much for your time and sharing of your faith journey.
Gwen:Oh, thank you for taking this time with me, TJ. It's always great to see you.
T.J.:And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
