Heather Hennessee - Second Chances, Tough Love, And The Urgency Of Prayer
You're listening to The Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinowski. The following is a faith conversation with Heather Hennessy, a lifelong member at the Bates Hill Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Warren County, Tennessee. At Bates Hill, Heather is the worship leader, the bulletin creator, a Sunday school teacher, and the Cumberland Presbyterian Women's Ministry president. She also works in the 31st Judicial District Public Defender's Office. It is in this role that Heather speaks from experience about the gift of second chances measured with tough love. An integral part of her faith is through the power of song, where she is both able to give praise and find her replenishment. In the telling of Heather's faith journey, she deepened my understanding of the urgency of prayer, to pray for another in the very moment of need. I am grateful for this push to examine my own prayers. Here is the faith journey of Heather Hennessey.
T.J.:Heather, you work for the 31st Judicial District Public Defender's Office. Wow. That's a mouthful.
Heather:It is.
T.J.:Can you walk me through what all that entails in terms of geography and then your responsibilities? And treat me like I don't know or don't understand because I don't know, and I don't understand.
Heather:Okay. I work for the 31st Judicial District Public Defender's Office in Warren County, Tennessee, which is McMinnville. We work it is an elected position. Our boss is John Parton. He is the elected public defender.
Heather:We have 3 attorneys, assistant, public defenders, and then we have an investigator. We have an office manager, and then we have me. I'm the legal secretary. My main purpose at the PD's office is what I'll shorten that to, is, I work in the general sessions court, which is misdemeanor court, and it's the lowest court, and then there's circuit. And our office manager does circuit court.
Heather:And so what I do is I compile all the cases that we take out of general sessions, put them in the computer, and and just, I'm the support person for general sessions cases. A lot of what I do second to entering all that case all the caseload and all the paperwork that that entails is I work with clients who have been using drugs and are in the throes of addiction. I typically try to assess them to see if they really want treatment versus I just wanna get out of jail. There's there's quite a bit of both. Mhmm.
Heather:We've seen huge success with that, and then we've seen, people who just wanna get out of jail and they go and then abscond or or, get picked back up for some other drug charge. But, typically, it's about half and half.
T.J.:Alright. Well, on average, let's say I'm in Warren County and I get arrested, how quick and I don't want any of this. But how quick would the turnaround be for a court date? How long would I would be in jail?
Heather:We typically do arraignments every Tuesday, so, hopefully, you would be in court the following Tuesday for whatever charge that you have. Typically, it's like around 14 days that you give or take 14 days, you need to be in front of a judge.
T.J.:Okay. Alright. So and I I say this in jest. If I was to commit a crime, I need to do it on a Monday then.
Heather:Exactly. Exactly. You do not want to do that, you know, on Tuesday and then have to wait a week.
T.J.:Right. Right. Right. Yeah.
Heather:Right.
T.J.:So this is an elected position, but does that affect you and your responsibilities within the office? Do you if the attorney if there was a new attorney elected, would you remain in the office or do how does that work? Do attorneys kinda choose their own staff?
Heather:Interesting that you say that. I did work for the district attorney's office in Manchester, and, there was a an election. And I did stay with the newly elected for 2 years and then, lost that position. And I ended up at John's office. And so we just recently, last August went through an election, and he retained his position as a public defender.
Heather:And, yes, it very much can depend on if someone newly elected comes in and says, you know, I wanna wipe it clean or I wanna keep you, but I wanna get rid of you. So there's I mean, it can happen.
T.J.:But in your role, you're probably pretty valuable with each year that goes by, not only with the community, but just with the responsibilities that come with it. That the knowledge that you have, the other people that you run into in the court daily, the relationships there, There's an advantage for keeping Heather around.
Heather:There is. There is. I would say so. A new person coming in with 0 knowledge of that job or skill set would have a hard time getting up to speed, but it's it's possible.
T.J.:Heather, I mentioned that you meet people not in their best moments. How do you how do you speak to the the individuals? How do you engage them? Because you have to be professional and yet there's still a sense of need of care and respect and empathy, I would think, in that role.
Heather:Right. When I took the position with John's office, the public defender's office, one of the things that John really wanted was to be able to help those with addictions and those with mental health issues and things that that was something that they couldn't do because of their caseload, and they didn't have extra hand to do that. So that was gonna be me trying to figure my way through that and try try to establish, communication with treatment facilities, with their mental health facilities, with, those people in our community that can assist people with housing, with, mental health medication. So that was a really big thing for John, and he really wanted someone to be able to take that and just roll with it. Mhmm.
Heather:Figure it out and go. And and that's what I did. I I dug I dug deep. I tried to find as many, as many people that I some contacts. I mean, I've got people in Memphis.
Heather:I've got people in Alabama. I've got people all over. So, that's what I did. And he also said, you know, you're coming from the district attorney's side. How do you feel about you know, how are you gonna be able to take that and come over to the defense side, and I told him, I said, you know, I believe in second chances.
Heather:Sometimes I believe in 3rd chances. So second chances and I believe that everybody should be treated as a human being. Now am I gonna tell you that when my phone rings 50 times and it's the jail asking, can you get me can you do that? Can you do this? Can you do this?
Heather:Can you do this? Sometimes it wears my patience then, but I try did I say thin? Where's my patience then? But, I realized that they are human. They've made mistakes, but who hasn't?
Heather:And I always say, you know, we're all one bad decision away from a jail cell. Some make it there and some don't some some choose to go a different way, but we all make mistakes. Some people continue in those. Some people learn from those and turn from there. And so, you know, I told him, I was like, we need to give people the chance to change their life.
Heather:And that was what he wanted to hear, and I hope that I relay that on a daily basis even though sometimes it is hard when they constantly call and beg and plead, and some people are on their 3rd chance. You know?
T.J.:Yeah. I was gonna ask you, what keeps you from becoming jaded when you see familiar faces on repeat offenses. As I mentioned earlier, you're catching people not at their best. And, you know, you really can be, you know, neck deep in some some examples that are the worst of humanity. How do you keep the jadedness and maybe even being judgmental, sort of that day?
T.J.:Not just on a professional level, but I I think from a personal level, as well. It seems like an easy temptation to fall into.
Heather:It is. It is an easy temptation. Excuse me. I, I remember during COVID, I was working from home, and, I was frustrated with some some clients and just the the constant repeat you know, it was a repeat after repeat after repeat, get them somewhere, and then they they abscond or they get picked up with something else. And I was just like, you know, I just don't know how to do this anymore.
Heather:You know? It's it's hard. It is hard. And, I remember my mom saying, this is your cross to bear. She goes, this is what this is what you do, and this is what you do well.
Heather:Because there are times where I want to be like, I don't care if you go to rehab. You know? Mhmm. And I'm human. But there are times where I see that somebody has made it that 12 months or that 90 day program, and they're excited.
Heather:And that makes me wanna continue, And I just I I try my best. Do I get jaded? Yes. Do I wanna sometimes ring people out? Yes.
Heather:But then I realize that the average drug addict isn't gonna get it on the first try. They're not gonna get it on the second try, most of them. So it's grace that you have to keep extending, and I I do tough love. I mean, I do. I'm constantly telling them you realize that if you leave, you're going back to jail.
Heather:You realize that you'll get another charge. You realize and I'm, you know, on a Zoom call with them over the phones or over the Zoom saying, listen. This is your shot. I believe you can do it, and and some do and some don't.
T.J.:Yeah. I think there's a redemption story. Stories, plural Mhmm. In each and every one of us. And, you know, there's small failures, there's big failures.
T.J.:It's just tapping into that redemption story. Do you have any redemption stories that you are at liberty to share? You know, you can be vague to protect the those who have recovered. But though I mean, is there 1 or 2 that have stood out that, like, yes, the system works and people can be transformed?
Heather:There is actually. A lady that we have there there are several, but one that just jumped in my mind is a lady who we sent can I say the name of the rehab that we sent them to?
T.J.:I don't know. If you
Heather:In Alabama, we'll say. She went to an Alabama rehab, and it's a year long program. And we had dealt with her and dealt with her and dealt with her some more. And finally, I think she realized that she needed something different. There needed to be a change, and so we got her placed to rehab in Alabama.
Heather:And, she went, and it was not easy at first. I got lots of phone calls. And one day, they said, you know, she's gonna have to realize that she's gonna have to abide by these rules. And if she doesn't, she's gonna be kicked out of the program. And so I had to get the tough love on and get her on the phone and be like, you know, you're gonna have to dig deep.
Heather:Deep. Deeper than you've ever dug before. If you don't want to continue in this cycle that you've been in. Jail out. Jail out.
Heather:And I I guess it worked. Well, I know it worked, actually. She eventually started working, and she started doing things. The the it's all about rules. If you can follow rules and you can do what they say, you're gonna progress.
Heather:You know? And and then they got to be like, they called me again. They said, Heather, she is working, but if I tell her to go hang clothes up, she's going over here to sweep the floor. And so we had this again. I'm like, if you're told to do something, you need to do what it is.
Heather:Well, I don't wanna do that. I'm like, we have to do things that we don't wanna do.
T.J.:I
Heather:was like, that's the only way we're gonna learn. You know? You can't just self gratify all the time. If you do, you're gonna be right where you were. Mhmm.
Heather:And so we got past that hurdle, and, I kept getting progress note after progress note after progress note saying she's doing better. She's doing great. You know, working work ethic, great. Doing her classes, great. Attending church, great.
Heather:And then lo and behold, here's a year past, and they're sending me something stating that she has, graduated. She's she's on for graduation, and I was like, oh my goodness. I'm so excited. And then they send something stating that she won one of the awards there for, like, doing what she you know, just going above and beyond, helping others that were coming into the rehab process, helping them get started and helping them to navigate what they needed to do. And I was like, wow, She did a full turnaround.
Heather:She was there very obstinate, and then turned it completely around, gets the the the one award for, you know, the graduation.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:She gets that, and she's moving on, and she wants to stay and work for them and continue that process and helping others. And so that is that is a success story, and we've had we've had many of those.
T.J.:Wow. That's and it's really interesting to think, you know, in the time that we live in, we want instant gratification, but sometimes transformation can take a very long time.
Heather:It can.
T.J.:And and I wonder if we're even if we're hardwired for that type of patients.
Heather:And I will say that she called and said thank you.
T.J.:Wow.
Heather:She called and said, I don't know if you remember me. She goes, I probably sound different because they helped her. She had a speech impediment, and she couldn't hear very well. And her mouth her mouth had needed a lot of dental work. They provided all of that, and she called, and she was like, this was number 1 a blessing, and thank you for sending me here.
T.J.:Wow.
Heather:And that makes me go one more day.
T.J.:Mhmm. Yeah. Those success stories, redemption stories, just I don't know. Renews your faith in other human beings.
Heather:It does.
T.J.:And God can move people. Well, Heather, not only do you work in the judicial system, you and your husband, Douglas, also own and operate residential and commercial trash business. And it serves 3 counties in Tennessee. What have you learned about us as a society by picking up our trash, our waste, our garbage? I think those are the only words I can say.
Heather:We're a very trashy nation. You would be surprised at the amount of trash we generate.
T.J.:Mhmm. Well, between these two jobs that you have, you have 2 full time jobs. How do you I
Heather:want a lot of help in the trash business, though. I do.
T.J.:Okay. Yeah. How do you how do you keep grounded being that busy between family and 2 jobs, and a family business. Mhmm. That that's a lot.
Heather:It is a lot. It is. We just we we rely on our connection with each other, our family connection. We our patients can run thin sometimes, but we realize that, you know, love love is love can mask a lot of things. You know?
Heather:Mhmm. Love love can heal a lot of a lot of air short-temperedness and, you know, sometimes we get very testy with each other, but, you know, we make it work. I will say that my mom runs the office and helps with daily calls, and my brother does deliveries. And, so we've made it kind of a family family affair, and, Douglas is in a truck every single day. And I work and then come home and try to help with some office things that, you know, mom needs help with or or if, a business is called that has an issue or things like that.
Heather:But, it's very much a team teamwork.
T.J.:You're a lifelong member at the Bates Hill Cumberland Presbyterian Church I am. In Murfreesboro
Heather:Center Town.
T.J.:Share with me your earliest memory at Bates Hill.
Heather:Wow. I guess I'll I'll have to go back to Sunday school. We always had a very active Sunday school, and we had a lot of youth around my age. So I grew up I grew up with some of my best friends today, to this day, at Bates Hill. So Sunday school was probably one of my first memories, and then vacation bible school, we always that was one of my first first memories to you, and I love looking back.
Heather:We have picture albums at church, and we'll look back and we'll see how just how young we were. Very much so. But, those are some lifelong friendships and memories that that stay with me.
T.J.:Heather, where did you have your profession of faith? What was it at Bates Hill? Was it at, Crystal Springs Camp? Where were you, and what was that experience like?
Heather:It was at Bates Hill in the early eighties. I came to ask Jesus into my heart. Mom wanted me to meet with the pastor. My brother and I both, professed at the same time. Oh, wow.
Heather:We we were baptized as infants. So, we went and and spoke with our preacher. And that next Sunday, we accepted Jesus into our hearts. And well, we had already done that, of course. But,
T.J.:but
Heather:just let the let the congregation know that we had professed our faith, in Jesus. And, you know, I grew up in such a faith filled family that I don't know of a time that I didn't know who God was, who Jesus is. You know? I just I don't know of a time that I didn't have that knowledge in in my heart.
T.J.:It's one of the reasons why I really enjoy having guests for Cumberland Road because there's so many people in the world today that haven't grown up in a faith community, in a church setting. And that doesn't put anyone at a disadvantage. It's just how important a community of faith is to help answer your silly questions about the Bible, whether you're 10 or 50, and to be able to be greeted with a smile that you might not get in the workplace or at school or out in the community. There's there's really a good sense of acceptance and grace within the Christian community of faith and, in particular, Cumberland Presbyterian Church. But I'm a bit partial on that one.
Heather:True. I I think that community is a huge part of our faith.
T.J.:Mhmm. The
Heather:Cumberland Presbyterian faith. It's that connection that we make with, fellow CPs, with our home churches, and we have sick well, let's see. I think 5, people 5 CP churches in our parish. And so we get together every 5th Sunday, and that's just a another way that we can connect.
T.J.:And those area churches, they've probably been doing that longer than you've been around.
Heather:Yes. I'm sure.
T.J.:You're also the worship leader at Bates Hill because you have nothing else to do. Apparently, you wanted to fill your Sunday as well with responsibilities. True. What's your favorite part about being a worship leader? Can you sing?
Heather:Yes. Yes. I do a lot of singing, actually. Lead the music at Bates Hill. Occasionally, my mother would love me to sing more specials, but, I've let her down lately on that.
Heather:But, I love to sing. I love to worship God through song. It's it's one of the easiest ways for me to worship.
T.J.:What is some of your favorite music that you like to sing?
Heather:I'm a southern gospel junkie. I am. My family and I, we there's, like, 20 to 25 of us that go every year to Family Fest in Gatlinburg, and it's nothing but gospel music. And then there's 2 speakers, 1 each day. Mhmm.
Heather:And, it's something that fills my tank. It it fills my tank up, and it's easy. And I love it because I don't have to do anything. All I have to do is sit and worship. That's all I have to do.
Heather:And then to do it with my family makes it even more special.
T.J.:Mhmm. Yeah. To be a participant and not having to lead or operate a business
Heather:Wonderful.
T.J.:Or find services for people in need, You get to fill some of your needs.
Heather:Right.
T.J.:Yeah. That's correct.
Heather:Right. It is it is very very much needed every year. I've I've longed for that time. I do. Robbie and I like to sing some contemporary music, and, of course, you know, some people can take it, some people can leave it.
Heather:But we we like we like a lot of contemporary. And sometimes he'll play for me. He plays the guitar, and so, he'll play. I'll sing. We listen to a lot of Charity Gail.
Heather:She's somebody that really ministers to me a lot through song. That's pretty much what I listen to. I mean and if I'm in my car, I usually listen to SiriusXM, The Message, with the music. So so I I try. That's my normal way of worship.
Heather:I mean, daily, singing some some worship song.
T.J.:Do you sing in the car?
Heather:Oh, yeah. For sure. I sing everywhere. If you if you if anyone knows me, they know that I will sing there is a song for any situation. Oh, yeah.
Heather:There's a song for any situation. Silly and to the most heartfelt, but there's a song for any any situation you're in.
T.J.:Heather, who has had great influence on your faith? Individuals, family member, minister, camp counselor, friend.
Heather:My mother, hands down. She from my earliest memory, I can remember her coming and kneeling at my bed and saying prayers with us at night.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:She went to each individual room with me and Rob, and we said our prayers every night before we went to bed. Now I'm 45 years old, and my mom sends me a devotional every single morning. She gets up. She reads her bible. She does her devotion.
Heather:She sends it to myself, my brother, and anybody else that, you know, she feels led to send it to. But we start our morning knowing that our mother is wanting us to deepen our relationship and and, you know, I can't tell you enough at how faithful she is. She is one of the best she's the best person I know. My grandparents had a huge huge, influence on my life. My grandmother is still living.
Heather:My grandfather passed, but, they my mom worked a lot. And so we we stayed with my grandparents a lot. And, so they would take us to church. I remember early early childhood, I would sit with a hymnal, and my granny would say, if you're gonna sing it, sing it right. And so she would she would go through and she would, you know, show me the notes.
Heather:And and, eventually, I took music lessons myself and learned the notes, but she would she would show me how, you know, to read read the hymnal. The reason I
T.J.:was laughing is because, I I know that this is audio, but we're having this conversation and your eyes got big and your finger came out when you were talking about your grandmother. I couldn't I couldn't hold it back. So
Heather:No problem.
T.J.:It was a look of seriousness.
Heather:She, well, she was serious. So, my grandparents were huge in my faith. And then I will say that I surround myself with friends who are faithful. Not all my friends have a faith in Jesus Christ, but most of them do. And it it keeps you grounded.
Heather:It it allows you to go to them when you have a need. You know? I don't doubt that my friends will pray for me
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:In the in the snap of a finger if I ask. I asked them before this podcast. I sent out a message. It said, please pray for me. And and they do, and they did.
Heather:And, I have no doubt.
T.J.:And that's how I that's the first time I met you is years years years ago, you had a circle of friends. Mhmm. And somehow, I guess my wife and I were we were either dating we may have been married at that time. And anyway, those circles intersected And that was one of the first encounters, and it has been years years years since you and I had talked. Yes.
T.J.:But but, yeah, I I was really impressed of the tightness of that portion of your circle of support. I know it's not complete. Right. But that, I really admired that, in the sense that you're hanging out socially. You know?
T.J.:It wasn't a church event. It wasn't a retreat. It wasn't a worship service. It was just, you know, your faith and your circle of support intersected all aspects of your life.
Heather:Right.
T.J.:And, that spoke to me, and to the your circle of friends.
Heather:Thank you.
T.J.:Heather, let's circle back. We've talked about faith, and we you were telling me about the different roles, jobs that you have. So how does your faith speak through you in your in your vocations, plural?
Heather:I would say my faith speaks through me through service. I think I'm a very service oriented person. Whenever you know, I've been in a courtroom and known someone, and they're scared to death, and they come up to me, and they're like, will you pray for me? And I have come to the thing, now where if somebody asked me to pray for them, I'm gonna pray for them right then.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:Like, I'm gonna I'm not gonna say I'm gonna pray for you, or I will pray for you tonight or later or whatever. But, like, I have been known to go in the back of the courtroom and pray with someone right there for their peace, for the best outcome that they can have. That's something I feel very strongly about, is prayer and when someone asks you. Because if if you do say yes, I'll pray for you, you know, we've all done it and we forget. Mhmm.
Heather:We do. And then I beat myself up over it long after I told them I would do it, and I do eventually do it. Mhmm. But if I do it right then, I know that I have spoken Jesus over that person
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:At that time. And that's something I feel very strongly about right now.
T.J.:That's really powerful. A need has been brought to your attention, and you address it right here, right at right now.
Heather:Right.
T.J.:Yeah.
Heather:And I can tell you that it's not always comfortable. One of my just an example. 1 of my, coworkers, she worked for the DA's office, and her husband was a police officer. And she said that she we got to lunch and we sat down and I could tell that she was in distress. She was like something there was something not right.
Heather:And I said, what's what's going on? And she goes, my husband is in a current active shootout right now. And the first thing I thought of was pray. Like, let's pray right now. So I I just said, well, let's pray right now.
Heather:And I grabbed her hand, and some of my other coworkers were with me, and we grabbed hands. And I just prayed right there of the situation. And I can tell you I mean, I didn't think about it twice. I just did it. And and I had other people go, I would have never thought to just do it right there, you know, right then.
Heather:And I was like, I just felt I've I usually filled up this urgency to do it. And, I had a neighbor who was having surgery, and God placed upon my heart, you need to you need to stop over there, and you need to pray with him before his surgery. And I was like, oh, god. I'll I'll I'll go over later. And the closer I got to home, I was like, okay.
Heather:I will go pray with him. Well, he had a bunch of people on his porch that were coming over to, you know, say, I hope your surgery is well, blah blah blah. And then I was like, okay. I mean, I just had that feeling that I need to go over and do that. And and so I obeyed and went over, and I I said, I just feel this overwhelming sense that I need to pray for you before your surgery.
Heather:Do you mind if I do that? And I said, I know that you have visitors. I said, do you mind if I do that now? And he was like, no. And I yes.
Heather:You can you can pray for me. And so I did, and then I just felt like this instant relief that I did that. And then I know later, he said, you know, that really impacted those the the friends I had that were that were there visiting me, that you would come over and and pray with me. And so if I've felt like if God tells me or prompts me to do something, don't wait. Just do it.
Heather:And I've never been told once, no. I don't want you to pray for me. Never once. It's always usually welcomed. So
T.J.:And that's not a challenge. That's just that's a statement.
Heather:Right.
T.J.:Heather, being a lifelong Cumberland Presbyterian, and I have a lot of ministers on the podcast. Not all ministers, but a lot of ministers. So I really like asking this question. Actually, a couple questions. From your perspective, lifelong Cumberland Presbyterian, a leader at Bates Hill, worship leader at Bates Hill, Just looking across the scope of our church family, what do you think that we're doing really well, and where do you think there's some areas for improvement as a denomination?
Heather:Like I said before, I think that we do community well. I think that our connections are a lot of what CPs are. I mean, we're just very connected. I have felt that connection all over. I've got friends from, you know, from church camp at Crystal Springs that I'm in touch with still today because of that that I mean, you're you're one of those.
Heather:When you called me, I was like, why is TJ Malinowski calling me? You know? But, I mean, but it's it's interesting to see how those connections that we have had from our youth still follow us today.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:And the faith that we have in each other, Some of us have have done real well and some of us haven't, but we're always there. That connection is always there to lift that that person in need up. You know? Mhmm. So I think we're really good at connecting and being together, and just I'm stumbling over my words now.
Heather:But
T.J.:Take your time.
Heather:But just that connection is a really big thing for me. Some of the things that I think maybe we lack. I've noticed a real slack in youth attendance and, like, Sunday school parents getting, excuse me, their children parents getting their children to Sunday school, the commitment, I guess, maybe sometimes is lacking. So priority on youth, I think, would be one of the major things that we could focus on because the CP church in our area is really an older generation, like much older generation. So we have to replenish that with something.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:And and our youth need to learn that commitment and need to learn there are children now that don't even know the basic stories of the bible when when they come to church, and that's where you learn the meat is in that in that Sunday school setting, and I think we're we're lacking in that. And it might not be everybody, but, like, there are lots of bigger churches that have huge youth groups. And and but the smaller church, I think, is really hurting in the youth aspect.
T.J.:And there's a benefit to having, like, an intergenerational congregation. It's healthy because the younger, and that's a wide age bracket there, can learn from the stories that you said and the history of the church, the scriptures, all different kinds of things from those who have been a disciple or been around the local church a little bit longer. Those things and traditions can be passed down and then passed down again and passed down again. There's there's benefits there. So not only having, let's say, a generation that's missing that isn't present to hear and to learn, you also have this wealth of knowledge and individuals who are young at heart who have something to share.
T.J.:Right. And so yeah. Certainly an area an area for improvement. Let me ask you about your hopes for the denomination beyond just the youth, but, just dreaming about the future, Heather, where would you like the Cumberland Presbyterian Church to be 5 years, 10 years from now? If you had that magic wand.
Heather:I would hope that we would have a bigger presence, in our in our world. That we would continue to grow and grow people of faith and not just head knowledge
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:But going and actually serving and doing what God is telling us to do. We could probably use some help in encouraging laypeople more. I I don't really know where I'm going with this, so you might wanna just edit this.
T.J.:Well, to strengthen, maybe emphasize the roles of lay leadership, lay pastors.
Heather:I really think that that is something that we could utilize more. Lay speakers, lay pastors, people who you know, we have our ministers who have us a select thing, but laypeople can they can do so much more.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Heather:And I think we get in the rut of coming to church, sitting in our pew, doing our daily, you know, our Sunday thing, and then we kind of disperse, but and come back and do it all over again. But I think we could have a stronger lay presence in our communities, in our churches.
T.J.:Yeah. Congregations can go months and now at the turn of the century, for years at a time without ordained leadership.
Heather:Right.
T.J.:And being able to pull from leadership within the church and recognize those gifts, whether it's, leading worship or, the proclamation of the word, of the scriptures, and emphasize, upon and share those gifts in a larger extent so that worship can be enriched and people can can go out and do good service in the community. It's it's a need now. It's a need back in the day. It will be a need in the future as well. We we have the people already in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church who are filling those roles, and we can certainly encourage more to do the same.
T.J.:I share that hope as well for the church to equip and encourage those all of us to pour out our gifts, for the community of faith and for the community that we live in.
Heather:And that's something I think our church, Bates Hill, is really good at. It is service to the community. There are lots of, various ways that we do that, and and it's encouraging to see those in your congregation come and actually be a part of a ministry that is of the church. You know, you've always got some folks that won't come, but we have a huge corps that come and serve and, you know, want to be involved.
T.J.:Mhmm. Heather, we were talking off mic, about one of the questions about, you know, what are you reading or watching, streaming, or types of music. And we had a good laugh, because of how busy you are. Like, some of these are seen as luxury. Those are my words, not yours, but k.
T.J.:Kind of seen as a luxury. K. But, you know, you shared earlier in our conversation that your mother shares you, like, a daily devotion. That is something that you're reading and reading regularly. Sure.
T.J.:So we could we could talk about that for a minute. You shared with me music. And and for, television or movies, how about we just make the question broad and just something that you have seen in the past that has spoken to your faith. So I threw, like, 4 questions at you. So let me let me break those down for you.
T.J.:So what you said that your mom shares with you and your brother Robbie, daily devotion, where does that come from? You know, is there a publishing house? Is there a name of the devotion? Or
Heather:You know, she never sends me who it's from, but, like, we just get a picture of the day that she's chosen to send. And, it always, you know, has the scripture and then has, the little devotional part and a prayer at the end. And I find it so amazing that lots of times when she sends it and we read it and, like, we go to Wednesday night study and something's brought up and boom, there it is. That that passage, that scripture she sent to us that morning goes exactly with what we're studying or talking about, on Sunday or Wednesday. And it just shows me that God's in the real small things.
Heather:He's also in the real big things, but, like, it's just confirmation to me that his word is true, his word is faithful, and that we're we're constantly growing.
T.J.:And we need to hear the word more than once.
Heather:Yes. Yes. Exactly.
T.J.:Alright. On, movies or television, just looking back at the things that you have watched, this is just a fun question, but, I like asking them. Anything that you can recall that you watched and that actually deepened your faith or spoke to your faith or made you reflect upon your relationship with Jesus Christ, even if the film or the show had nothing to do with Christianity?
Heather:I'm trying to think of something, but nothing really comes to my mind. However, we've been watching and I know this is huge and it may be a cliche answer, but the chosen series, I've really, really enjoyed it. It's very moving, and, of course, we know that, you know, not everything they do in the chosen series is what hap you know? Mhmm.
T.J.:It's
Heather:not scripted completely from the from the book, but it really has spoken to me. It's it's deepened, I think, my faith, and it's made me question some things that, you know, maybe I I thought a different way and see a different kind of just something different about it that spoke to me from the series. I'm almost finished with it, but, it really has helped me visualize. I really like to visualize the Bible, like, see it in action. I do.
Heather:I love that. And it has, it's helped me to see that a little bit more. And, and I I think it's helped some of our other, members at the church see, you know, see it in action. It's not just the words you read. It puts it there for you to see and and to kinda I don't know.
Heather:It just draws you in more.
T.J.:Yeah. I I would imagine, you know, it kinda puts flesh to the print. Yes. You know, even if It worked. Yeah.
T.J.:Even if the the actor's playing, we have no idea if they even remotely resemble the the the individuals in in the bible. But just being able to, you know, hear the interaction, you know, when people are in dialogue or Jesus' teaching and and then see people respond or not respond to it. There's there's just the visual just adds another layer to it. I agree. Maybe maybe and it allows us not to have to try to use our imagination so much.
Heather:So much. Yes.
T.J.:Because it it gives us that one of our senses. It kinda fills in the gap for us. And I like what you said. It's not intended to be an exact step by step recreation. I mean, there's no way to know.
T.J.:Where was
Heather:Exactly.
T.J.:Where was somebody standing when was Jesus to the left or to the right when he spoke to Peter? You don't Exactly. Were they sitting or standing? Was it raining that day or was the sun out?
Heather:We're not given all that information.
T.J.:No. Heather, thank you so much for your time. And you got off work. You came home. You sat down to have this conversation with me, and when we get off here, you're heading out of town.
T.J.:So I feel very privileged that you carved out this space for me, but more importantly, to share your faith journey.
Heather:Thank you. It's been an honor to to do so.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to the faith journey of Heather. To hear more amazing people, follow Cumberland Road on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcasting service. In closing, the directory of worship for Cumberland Presbyterian says this about prayer. Christians pray not primarily to receive something from God, but as an expression of their creaturehood and their dependence upon god as their creator. The primary purposes of prayer are to enter into the presence of god, to experience anew God's judgment, grace, and power, to praise God, and to invite God into our world and into our lives.
