Huiling Pritchett - Finding Faith, Cultural Identity, & Counseling Ministry (Part 1)
You were listening to the Cumberland Road, and I am your host, TJ Malinoski. Huiling Pritchett is a Cumberland Presbyterian minister and a licensed counselor in Denver, Colorado. She generously shares of herself with me while taking some time off with her family in Nebraska. Our conversation is a beautiful and refreshing journey, One of longing and yearning for someone to come alongside her. We talk about growing up in Mainland China, arriving to the United States, finding faith, the complexity of cultural identity, and the need and the importance of counseling ministry. Enjoy part 1 of my conversation with Huiling Pritchett. Hello, Huiling. Thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Huiling:Thank you, TJ. It's such an honor to me. Thank you.
T.J.:So we were talking off mic that you have recently, almost a year ago, started, counseling as your ministry, and that was part of your calling. Could you talk about what counseling ministry is and what that looks like?
Huiling:Sure. I wouldn't say I have very good understanding, yet. This is a journey that I walked, with the presbytery, preparing committee for about 6 years, about what my calling really is. That was a time, when I just finished my MDiv, school. I was searching for a call.
Huiling:I joined, a church that belongs to Convent Presbyterian Church. So I was invited to come on board. I was accepted as a candidate, that started a 6 year journey searching for my call. So I shared my passion. I said I would really like to sit with people 1 on 1 to just really go down to where they are, whatever struggles they're going through, and and hear through and see how I can be that kind of agent, for people, forgot to use for people in that place and and come out of there.
Huiling:And I would say faith will be a foundation, but I also feel that there is so much more that's needed for people in that place. I feel like I myself went through that place and I longed and I desired for somebody to come alongside able to address even depressive moods, even relational conflicts, some of the very raw, and difficult feelings and emotions, not just telling me what the scripture says and not just telling me what my, cognitive conviction saw, but more so just staying with me. So, Marty Curran, reverend Marty Curran, was, leading that, group, and I he asked the really good questions. And, along the way, we felt like it was a calling to go back to school to take on professional counseling, and then, come out of it to really help integrate, faith and counseling, into a type of that kind of ministry that I'm passionate about. So that is what I went through.
Huiling:This is where I am. So my understanding of counseling ministry, is still quite limited, but now I see that space as such a sacred space really for me to hold for another person, that eventually we will all be open to receive the light and love of God into the places that still, is filled with pain and hurt and even, a lot of negative thoughts. Just the places where, god's light and love still need to go in. And sometimes it's so hard to walk through that journey alone. And I see myself as that kind of midwife or agent to be there for that person.
Huiling:So that eventually, we'll have way more space in each other. I when I say each other because I see that impact on me as well to see that work happen, that God's love and light, is going to permeate more and more as we become more and more open in his presence. So that's in a nutshell is how I see what the counseling ministry, is for me to get into.
T.J.:How do you make, an individual feel comfortable to be able to share some of the pains and the fears and the loss that have brought you or brought them to you in the first place. I would imagine that there's a level of anxiety, maybe even resistance, to begin to open up to someone that is essentially a stranger, a professional, but a stranger nonetheless?
Huiling:That's a really good question. It also has been a journey. I would always feel not qualified. That is such a sacred space. That is such a personal matter.
Huiling:Who am I, who am I to be there and to poke around and for these, areas, right? For people that there are so sometimes it's so painful to open and sometimes people are so afraid to open up because, they will feel like I will, break down. I will really lose a sense of myself. So this is a really good question. I think a few things that come, come into my mind.
Huiling:One is that I do, disclosure according to the time and, the moment, whether it is, a a call for. I would share that, hey. I am no better and I've gone through this, and this is a very, very hard and difficult place, a unique place. And I had a lawn for such a space, and this is a place where I sold totally is yours. That is not mine.
Huiling:That is really what God has an audience, for, for us to sit together if they were really confessed God the same triune God. If that's not the case, I usually don't even bring up. So so I do use, personal disclosure as appropriate. I I do in my mind, made the made the determination that it is about that person. It is about that whole holistically about that person, that person's pain, that person's resilience, that person's, image, of God in that person as God has made that person.
Huiling:And, I I I see that I'm not really the person to make the change. I really see myself as the whatever you call it. I've already used the agent, midwife, or facilitator for that process to take place. But at that time, how important it is just for 2 people to relate to each other, gradually with trust, with openness, and I will take the time. There is no rush.
Huiling:I don't impose that, client or that person sets the the the pace. It takes whatever law it needs to take, and that's totally okay with me. And and this is pretty amazing that over time, especially with confessing Christians, that usually takes actually takes place pretty quickly. It feel like after a few meetings, we just feel so much more comfortable with each other, and and that process also goes gradually deeper and deeper.
T.J.:Wei Ling, what have you learned about the human personality in the counseling ministry? What has stood out that you have discovered about us as this very interesting creation in the universe? What stands out to you in in this field of ministry?
Huiling:Just I yeah. The the first word that come into my mind is just sacred. Just each life is so sacred. Each person, is the life itself, uniqueness in their unique background, in their unique upbringing, in their unique, cultural, ethnic, heritages and everything all of this. I feel like, the overall world is just very sacred, but a lot of people don't see that.
Huiling:This is also a journey that God has, brought me through to see the sacredness of it. And I think that does generate all the awe inside of me because really who, they belong to in essence and who God really is, who has made created each life as unique as each individual, has in front of me. So for human life, the first word is just really, sacredness. It generates all in me, and also in many, many ways also very broken. It's just very sad to see, and that's another reality.
Huiling:But that sense of brokenness does not despair me because of what my own faith, and I know the potential, and I know, what God also has, presented it to us, present available the salvation and and the hope there. So sometimes people don't see that even Christians can be so caught up in a very broken situation and and just feel so low and so lonely and so hopeless. So second, yeah, is a sense of brokenness. And and I mean, ultimately, what I have already shared is that that's not the ultimate answer either. There is a way.
Huiling:There is redemption. There is wholeness that God over time can, bring us through towards that. So, yeah, three things come into my mind.
T.J.:Yeah. I I think that people are both fragile and strong or fragile and courageous by seeking out counseling in the listening ear in that sacred space in search of understanding and healing. And I I see our Christian faith as addressing those, but to be able to have another's undivided attention in a professional way to kind of help guide that. In some ways, it could be seen as the role of the pastor and the role of an evangelist at the same time?
Huiling:Yes. I would use this as a more like a bottom up approach. The churches are doing great, really great preaching and teaching and coming alongside in a lot of activities and and a lot of ways to nurture, as a congregation or sometimes groups, smaller groups. So a lot of that we receive as a kind of top down method and we really need that. We need to hear and we need to receive and we need to really digest and let the word sink and really be a part of us.
Huiling:And we don't have it. We need to receive. That absolutely is, true. But on the other side, this counseling ministry is more like a bottom up approach. It is what is already there inside because of upbringing, because of intergenerational impact, because of situations.
Huiling:So there's already a lot here down if we don't really address over here and we just don't really have a good buffer or container to receive what God desires for us to have because it's it's just so shallow. It it just goes away and what's there already, deep in the body, a lot of times, still get its way. Almost like what Paul was saying. I feel like there's some kind of flaw at work in my body that I don't do what I wanna do, and I don't wanna do what I do. So I see the bottom up approach addressing some of the deeper issues that are not in the consciousness, but people know there that we need to have that kind of very dedicated time and a space to go deeper and address it and really let it go and release it so that God's message, God's love, God's light will have more and more of the container inside of us.
Huiling:I would say get more of us each time.
T.J.:Wei Ling, what life experiences have led you to the counseling ministry?
Huiling:I wanna say there are many, experiences, but, I'll I'll maybe start a little bit with my upper brain name. So I, was born and raised in a small village in Mainland China, Eastern coast of Mainland China. I have a younger brother who is 3 years younger than me. My parents were rice farmers, farmers back then over there. They plant rice as the main food.
Huiling:Both of my parents are are educated. My dad had a, a middle school education, which already was, pretty good in comparison to his peers. So, upon, by upon the high school time, I was one summer, I was planting rice in the rice field. And and somehow I just really felt like this is not the life I would like to continue to live just like my parents. Just stay in a village and and planting rice all lifelong and and, have family and have children.
Huiling:And somehow that summer when I was right about to start my senior year in high school, I I become pretty restless just spending my back planting rice in the hot water on a very hot summer day. So that was a moment while we caught epiphany or whatever I call this. I really call it a God's counseling session with me on that rice field that, I see that high school is my critical year to study well and hard and try to do well in the college entrance examinations. College entrance examinations, were and still I think are the way for a lot of people like me in the village, in the countryside to go to the city to get receive education. So that's what happened to me.
Huiling:I did it pretty well, in the exams, and I got a chance to, go to college, which was unimaginable to, my parents and lot of villagers back then in the late eighties, of last century. So that opened up, an opportunity for me to receive education and I majored in English and I, had a teacher's westerners as my English teachers. And I felt like their lectures, their lessons open up a door for me to read, things, not of Mandarin, not of Chinese and to realize that there is a very different way of thinking, different way of life. But I was so saturated still in that, culture in that, culture thinking in our ways. It was very refreshing, but that was only, the initial seed planted in me.
Huiling:So after I got married and my daughter was born, I was living in, Hangzhou, the capital city of the province where I was born. That was a time I started really searching, asking questions about, what life is really about, how to really deal with relationships, how to really I didn't know I didn't know how to put the words there. It it's really the rest of the heart and the soul that was I was searching, but I had no idea. So as a girl growing up, I was important to my parents, but I always feel that I just was not as important as my brother because that was a tradition. Everybody accepted it.
Huiling:And that was how my parents and the villagers think. So I didn't make a big deal out of it. But I think that was impactful.
T.J.:So even though you were the first child, the eldest child, it was your younger brother who took precedence or received the special care or attention from your mom and dad?
Huiling:The true we always say that the boy carries, the name of the family. So girls will go out and marry. So who the girl really is? Well, you will belong to another family. You will do whatever you need to do and you need to do well for another family.
Huiling:So that was always the expectation. So looking back, identity, where home is, these are the things that I was struggling, I believe, in my teenage years and even early twenties. I just didn't know what was really the concepts, the realities. I was struggling. So back then, newly, new family, a young daughter, That was a time I started to ask these questions.
Huiling:There was not much to approach except some of the Buddhism literature in China because, in China, the traditional thoughts or religions, Diasm, Buddhism, and also Confucianism. And Confucianism was and I would have believed still is very much in the DNA of the culture. It's very hierarchical. It is some kind of order that everybody is expected to follow regardless of uniqueness, a different individuality. So the only literature I could approach was, Buddhism literature.
Huiling:So I took some and I started a reading and I realized that the core part of the, Buddhism, literature or Buddhism, as a religion is that your desire to love and be loved and and that it just the the root of pain and suffering. And and the idea is to empty yourself and empty your desires so that you do not live with so many desires. And I start to wonder how can that even happen? Because that's just a part of me, and that is a reality of life. So somehow after just a short period of searching through the Buddhism literature, I just realized that that was not for me.
Huiling:I do not think that as a reality, I can have the power to have that removed so that I can live a life that is emptied. Then what is left of me and what is of me? So so that, didn't, work out. So that that was a time that I was talking to, my husband back then and said, well, there is something called the American dream. Let's go and pursue that.
Huiling:So I finally persuaded him. We came to America through through his schooling that he was offered research assistantship at a university in New Jersey. So that's how we came to America.
T.J.:So let me I
Huiling:know that go ahead.
T.J.:Yeah. So you had this ambition. I I'm beginning to get this picture of of you and all this yearning and these quest questions as a teenager and into young adulthood and then convincing your husband, let's go seek this dream. Let's go find some answers and find comfort and solace, and it may be somewhere else. And, it took a little while to convince your your husband.
T.J.:So what was the convincing point? Was it the opportunity to to work in the United States? I kinda cut you off. So
Huiling:No no worries. No worries. That's a really good question. First of all, China adopted the opening and reform policy, I think, in the early eighties. So by the early nineties, when when both my husband and I started working our jobs, we had known quite many, classmates like his classmates and and some of the people from our university.
Huiling:We we had known them, already going through that journey that, they would have graduate. They would have tried to apply for a field, to go on with a doctoral study. And that was also the time that the government would encourage, at least not not at least to be open with, that. So quite many, people that we knew already went through that journey. And that mainly is because he and I were both, born and raised in the countryside.
Huiling:While living in the city, we just felt like we didn't know anybody and that society only operates with contacts with the the fact that who you know and for any opportunities. And we almost felt like we could see our future down the road just being there and very limited and, not knowing anybody. You just expected it to teach for him to teach physics, for me to teach English, just this causes of courses all the time. And we had no idea life how life could be different. So this is how yeah.
Huiling:That these two points is how what I used to persuade him and see, look, we don't, we don't know anybody. We don't really have opportunities. I don't know how life would be like. What do you think how this can be different? Look at your friends.
Huiling:They they they got these opportunities. So, yeah, that's how it happened. It did take a while.
T.J.:Okay. And then I interrupted you. So you come to the United States, And what happens?
Huiling:So the very, very first day, my daughter and I arrived at a GAFK and my husband and, a brother, in the church that, came to the airport to pick us up. And it was right before thanksgiving holiday. So very quickly, almost just the next day, we were introduced to, the the Christians, the Chinese Christians in the in the church that that brother picked us up. They they they were still fairly new Christians themselves. They they came just maybe a little bit before us, and they heard the gospel and they believed.
Huiling:And, and they, they were, they were very involved in serving the newcomers. So that was really amazing to, meet with them right away and to go to those, evangelistic activities. And later on, because for the 1st several months, I had nothing to do and I they kept to come to, kept to coming to pick me and my daughter up. And I was just sitting, in the congregation on Sundays and and gradually hearing more and more of the whole picture of the gospel.
T.J.:Now were you aware of the Christian faith prior? I mean, had you had prior experiences, or was there a general awareness of the Christian church? Or was this your first exposure to the good news of Jesus Christ?
Huiling:I had no understanding at all. No one in my family were a Christian. I did know that a Christian church or or I wanna say church building did exist even in the Conch side of of of my hometown. Occasionally, I would, I would hear so and so, were attending the church over there, and I even attempted to sit there for half an hour, but nothing really went into my mind, went into me.
T.J.:So you're new to the United States and part of your transportation is these new Christians to help get you around and acclimated to the this new community. So talk more about about being introduced to the Christian faith and sitting in worship experiences. What were you thinking during those moments?
Huiling:Yeah. The the initial experience was just, shocking. A a huge contrast to my, mindset that was very atheistic and very culturally saturated, based on the Chinese culture. It's a huge contrast, but somehow, I was just so attracted by these Christians. I I think it was more demonstrated by these people what the, gospel is than really my own direct understanding of what the gospel is.
Huiling:I I realized that these fairly new Christians, they came from China. They had gone through very similar education like mine. They had been impacted by the, social and cultural expectations just like I was. So what is different in these people seems like now they are not as anxious. Now they are just haven't experiencing so much peace, and their language is different.
Huiling:Their manner is different. They're it it was very attractive to me. I didn't know I was really seeing that until now. I could realize that something in them that attracted me that was different and that kept me just wanting to be in relationship with them. And if they offered to just to sit with me and sometimes just share Bible stories with me.
Huiling:And I want to sit with that particular, that lady named Diane. She was from Shanghai. She came just a few years earlier, but she would come to visit. She would just say, you know, you have nothing really. I had nothing to do back then.
Huiling:My daughter was fairly young, 4 years old. So she would stop by, share a conversation and then she, she will share her journey. She will share some of the, really the Bible stories, which was fascinating. Should tell the story of Joseph, what, what Joseph went through. So that was really, attractive to me.
Huiling:So I realized that gradually that did, lay some seed in my heart. And but then life got busy, and I, went to school as well. And then later, I moved to Colorado for a job. But somehow, it was just very natural for me to be connected with a local bible study group, of Chinese.
T.J.:When you relocated to Denver, how did you find other Chinese Christians, other Chinese disciples? And at that point when you relocated, would you have called yourself a Christian at that time? Or were you still seeking? Were you still asking questions?
Huiling:I I I would say I was still a seek a seeker seeking, and it it was very easy to find the, the the Chinese Christians. So I moved to Boulder. I, found a place to, an apartment to share with, another Chinese lady. She has a daughter as well. So I, brought my daughter with me and, she, she was attending one of the small local Chinese churches just in a Boulder area.
Huiling:So it was very natural just to go visit the church with her. And then she also introduced me to this, Chinese, bible study group. I I know Colorado isn't one of those places where we have a lot of, people from Asia or from, China, but still there there's a pretty good size. So it was just very natural to join the Bible study group. Not only externally through the relationship with my roommates, but also internally.
Huiling:Just feeling that that is a wonderful and a good thing to go to do.
T.J.:For the bible study, knowing that China has multiple languages, Cantonese, Mandarin, and maybe there's more you can add to that. What language is spoken during the bible studies while you're there in Boulder?
Huiling:Yeah. We were mainly speaking just, standard Mandarin. And we had people from Taiwan and from mainland China. I mean, maybe even some from Hong Kong. But majority of the time, it's Mandarin.
Huiling:Young people probably were speaking English as it was just more natural for them to speak English because of their schooling and their life experiences. So, language wise, there was no difference, but culturally there, there are some minor differences, especially between people from Mainland China and people from Taiwan or Hong Kong and somewhere else. But mainly the group that I associated with, majority of them were from mainly China. A lot of them were scholars, scientists working. At at Sea of Boulder or studying there as well.
T.J.:So you went through a lot of changes in your life in a relatively short period of time because you had moved to the United States and then you moved within the United States and you're still seeking, you're still exploring this Christian faith and you're finding a sense of community there, where maybe the other aspects of your life is still unknown or unanswerable or unsettled. So talk more about what that was like and and maybe what kind of solace you were finding among this faith community?
Huiling:This is such a good question. So, I moved to Colorado in 2002. Between 2002 and 2008, during the 6 years, my family, my husband back then and, my my daughter and we also, we we all moved to Boulder and we got our first home and and, we also had had another child, a son and he was born in 2007. So it seems like something like what we call the American dream is really coming true. We had our own home, which was unthinkable while back in China.
Huiling:We got our own jobs and cars and we, have had an extra child that we would not have, if we were in China. And we also started our green card, application process and we were just waiting for final step. So it seemed like all these items that we would a number, our fingers all coming true. And that did, bring some comfort to some degree. And in the community, a lot of people were very similar in in in the journey, in their experiences.
Huiling:So we did have that part of community, not huge, but but but pretty good size. And we share a lot of our spare time together with them. So in a way it was, very stable. It was, comparatively speaking, more settled period of time in comparison to what we were going through earlier. But on the other side, very quickly, something started really for me to realize that these are the things that they don't stay and they don't satisfy.
Huiling:I had moved from the village to the city, the city to America to east coast, from east coast to to here now in Colorado. As if I am searching for something and I feel like I have searched all that I could. And then what else? And on top of that, realize very quick realizing very quickly that nothing really stays right and then with 2 children, one is becoming a teenager girl, and she was very difficult. And I realize now how much she was struggling in terms of her identity and her value conflicts.
Huiling:She experienced in home and outside of home. And a young son, he was, infant and then toddler and took need a lot of energy and care. And we invited my mother-in-law to come and she was a practicing Buddhist. And I started to realize that spiritual warfare was very real and challenging. And, my marriage relationship, we we always tried to work through for the common goal that we want to settle.
Huiling:I want to make a good life for our family. All came out all these relational communication issues, relational conflicts, emotional conflicts seemed like the that the the dream seems like was not really solidified to any period of time. It was almost feeling like a vapor that we that were our target for a long, long time. And all of a sudden, there's this whole mess of issues in front of us. That was a time that I really started asking questions.
Huiling:Lord, lord, where is the power of your word that is supposed to be sharper than double edged sword? Why that is not working in my life? Where is that abundant life that you promised for us? I was really asking these questions with a lot of emotions, lot of crying out. What what is it?
Huiling:What does this mean? I have been attending church and reading your word and even sometimes leading and teaching a little bit with church groups. But deep down, Lord, where is really the power? Why am I still living a life this way? Almost to a degree it's worse.
Huiling:Before I was oblivious, I was just living in my own sinful ways. And now it's almost like internal and external condemnation that you're a horrible person. You're not living out, what you believe in, and it almost like a hypocrite. It it was a very, very hard place. I would say spiritually my lowest place, but that was really the moment.
Huiling:The Lord revealed himself to me, and I heard him say, well, you have all these struggle struggles because you wanted to put your feet in both worlds. I was really startled realizing that I have these thoughts in me, and I just kinda almost turned around. Lord, is that you who are speaking to me? And then I realized, I say, I I admit that is the case. I have been trying to live in 2 worlds, and I know that this is going to do is going to be failing.
Huiling:It's doomed to fail. Then that was really a very critical moment in my life, in my spiritual journey, in every way. So so that period of time, I I really turned and I said, the lord, I do not know anyone else who could really give me a hope. At least I could really just try you out. I'm yielding this seat, this driver's seat to you, and I'm just going to follow.
Huiling:And you lead me and you help me. So that was a very kinda pretty much read a real version of surrendering that that took place. And and the Lord was so faithful. There were just those very different moments, big or small, that really helped me see that he was present. He was leading me through, and he was also teaching me and and shaping me along the way.
Huiling:So that period of time was very intensive, spiritually very intense.
T.J.:That surrendering that you mentioned, was that a gradual giving away of yourself, or was it just immediate? How long was that time period? And let's live here for a moment, if you don't mind, of the changes that were happening within you and how your perception of the world was changing, including your relationships, the current ones you had and the new ones that you were making?
Huiling:That that didn't happen over over time, but surely pretty consolidated over a period of time. For for example, that same year after I realized all this, I went back to that retreat where I was converted. I went that's called Colorado Chris Chinese Christian retreat that takes place every Memorial Day weekend. They will book a conference place in Estes Park, inside the Rocky Mountain National Park. So it it it's a it's a beautiful place, and they always invite, speakers, for 3 day conference.
Huiling:So, I I was there pretty much every year in those years. So that particular year, I went there and and I was not supported. I I went with my daughter. I don't think my husband went. So I was realizing that that's all everything's okay.
Huiling:I can just go and, there will be really good people to take care of these kids in the, like, kids ministry. So I sat through 3 days. I felt like that retreat. Everything was speaking to me, and I was taking in very intently. And and if things just were moving inside of me.
Huiling:So by the end of 3rd day, there was an auto call. And and as usual, I had witnessed that before in the previous retreat sessions. So that day, I didn't know what happened as if there was some power leading me, and I just couldn't help it. So I went up. I went to the altar call, and then the speaker prayed for me by placing, his hand.
Huiling:These pastors and the speaker, they, prayed for Orifas who went up by placing the hand on our head. And then I went back to my seat and I just started to wonder, Lord, what had just happened? So in the next few months, I kept asking this question. I just said, lord, I hope this is not just a joke or just a show walking up, being prayed on, and come back and nothing happened in my life. I felt like something pretty substantial that has happened, but I don't know what that means.
Huiling:I don't know what is ahead, but I just said the Lord, I just don't want that to be a joke and you do what you see as fit. And also meanwhile the idea about ministry. So the prayer was very specific praying for these people to go and into the ministry ministry. That means I might need to go to a seminary. Oh, that means that I may not be supported.
Huiling:That may not be recognized as as as your call. So that really opened up, a lot of a lot of questions. So I made a commitment. I just said, lord, okay. You take me to a seminary that you see fit.
Huiling:I just need a job there that you will prepare so that I can just sub as your way of providing for me. And if my husband would allow me to take the children with me, I wouldn't do that. I trust that I can do that. Otherwise, if he would not allow, that's okay with me as well. So, a lot of shaping along that way as a surrendering.
Huiling:At first, I thought I would be called to somewhere in Pennsylvania. I felt like the job was just for me. There was a seminary. I read their history. It was just wonderful.
Huiling:I even, had an interview on the on the phone and it felt like, it it could really work. And I even shared a little bit with, some of the church people, But I was given a note. I was denied. So that was a struggle. And I just felt like, lord, you had to give me some assurance.
Huiling:But at the end, you said that this is not so. And I felt like I lost a face in front of my Christian, friends. They felt they already were doubting, like really, is this really God is calling you? Like, no one is really seeing that happening. We feel like you should really devote your time to, to, for your family, for your children.
Huiling:And, and we see there are issues, obviously. So, so it was, one of the those moments really kind of learned in a hard way to surrender. And and the Lord the Lord used, the word to, really convince me that, okay, Lord. It doesn't matter if I lost a face that the gift that your given given me is the holy spirit, and the holy spirit is given to those who would submit. So that was very very relieving to me to say, okay, lord.
Huiling:I submit. If that's not your will, that's okay. I don't mind what other people are thinking. So I'm just giving you a little bit snippet of these different moments. How the, lesson to learn to surrender had it taken place.
T.J.:Here, we will pause my conversation with Huiling. The next episode will continue where we left off. To close, I thought I would share some words from the French philosopher Amin Malouf, in his book, In the Name of Identity. Everything that has to do with fundamental rights. The right to live as a full citizen on the soil of one's fathers. Free of persecution or discrimination, the right to live with dignity anywhere, the right to choose one's life and loves and beliefs freely while respecting the freedom of others, the right of free access to knowledge, health, and a decent and honorable life. None of this, and the list is not exhaustive, may be denied to our fellow human beings on the pretext of a preserved belief, an ancestral practice, or tradition. In this area, we should tend towards universality and even if necessary towards uniformity because humanity, what is also multiple, is primarily 1.
