Huiling Pritchett - Finding Faith, Cultural Identity, & Counseling Ministry (Part 2)
You are listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. In this episode, I continue my conversation with Huiling Pritchett, Cumberland Presbyterian minister and a licensed counselor. Huiling continues her faith journey and a calling into ministry and the pains of entering into that vocation. She stresses how important it is to walk alongside one another and what it means to be truly heard and understood. Friends, enjoy the rest of my conversation with Huiling Pritchett.
T.J.:You are a young Christian and you may be feeling the call to ministry. You explore that from a practical point of view in terms of income, in terms of jobs so that you can study. And the community of faith is going, are you sure this is right? Are you sure this is what you're supposed to be doing? How lonely was that?
Huiling:That that was a very, very difficult time. It's almost like I would rather just listen to them and they say how much better. I mean, I talked to different pastors. They will say, how much better that you just minister to your own family instead of seeking something remote, something we don't even see and know? There are different sayings and that some were to say, maybe this is not God's timing.
Huiling:And some were to say, how would it got caught? Maybe God caught caught you first just for you to be patient and kind and demonstrate to your husband so that he will receive the call as well. So there there were many different interpretations. And I gradually realized, like, lord, whatever that way is, I accept. I don't have to stick to my own understanding.
Huiling:But one thing was interesting. Somehow, something inside of me that was very strong strongly different and was very strong, almost like prompting. This is almost like what, the the prophet Jeremiah was saying that inside of him, something was kind of burning in the bone, in his bones. So I feel like something stronger, something burning inside. So it was very difficult to a point, that I remember that year.
Huiling:During a spring break time, I already got a job actually because the year before one day when going to my old job, somehow some prompting inside of me saying that go check out the website of Denver Seminary. And I said, oh, lord, I was looking the other day. They don't have anything. But the prompting was there. Okay.
Huiling:I'll check. That's easy to follow. So I checked that. They opened up a new position. So I applied, and I was accepted, and I already started a job there.
Huiling:And then I submitted my, application for school schooling. Well, this is the main idea. I changed my job. So it was pending. I couldn't have a church endorsement.
Huiling:That was the reason why I was talking to different pastors. That's where I received these different interpretations. They'll say, wait. Be patient. Wait for god's timing.
Huiling:Otherwise, you could lose your marriage. There's something more burning inside that was going on there. It's almost like a in a in a conflict. It is in a it wasn't a conflict. It was a strong conflict.
Huiling:So living in that, tension was not easy to a point, that was already the next year spring break, and my application was already pending for months. So I just prayed and said, the lord, I'm going to just fast and and pray for 3 days. No food and no water. And whatever result I get is okay with me. That was a time I also told the admissions office, and I just said, you guys got to give me an answer whether you accept me or you deny me.
Huiling:And I can explain to you why I'm not able to get a church endorsement. So after that 3 day prayer, I was just really ready that, lord, you're the living water and you're the bread, and I was able to go through that and trust that whatever he I need, that he's called me to be, he will provide. So talk finally, I talked to the admissions office, and they said, well, normally, we would not accept a student in that situation. We would, encourage counseling and and and, you know, whatever that's needed, really, for your relationship, for your family. But since we have already known you for half a year, we would just temporarily accept your internal degree program.
Huiling:You can start taking courses and see how that goes. If it goes well, then we can, always switch you into the degree program. So that was really amazing because I had to start in my job, 6 months earlier. So they they feel like we've already known you a bit, and, we would like to accept you. So I really see God's hand in that whole process.
Huiling:He truly answered my prayer to, lead me to a seminary of a job there for me to go through school.
T.J.:So let's talk about what were you feeling at that particular time. You had fasted for 3 days. You were seeking an answer. You get a response. So what was happening inside of your your mind and your heart and your body and and your relationship.
T.J.:What did you do with that good news?
Huiling:TJ, there was a period of time in every way I was so alive. I wouldn't say easy. I wouldn't say not difficult or not challenging, but I was just so alive in in in my thoughts, in my prayers, in my diligent devotional time. I was reading through the Psalms. I I was, sitting in that place noticing healing all of these different information and also noticing what is inside.
Huiling:A lot of times very frustrated. Other times kinda coming back to the to to the conclusion that at the end of the day, lord is the one. He is going to give me a definitive answer. But usually that is a period of tension that no answer is so quick. And each day, I just go through that and feeling feeling the tension, feeling the weight, feeling the burden, and I just feeling I'm not going anywhere.
Huiling:What is really going on? So, again, coming back to prayer, coming back to word, and then start another day again and thinking everything through again and to the same place. It was very repetitive. The only image I can come up with is just that butterfly in the cocoon. You just try to flap.
Huiling:You just try to get away from that cocoon, from that almost feeling like a bondage. Right? A place. And and that does take time, but I trust and believe that was the time a lot of internal strength was gained and a lot I feel like faith was just becoming so real and God's presence, his own presence was also becoming so real real to me.
T.J.:That's fascinating. So you enter into the school and you start taking courses. You're both employee and student there at Denver Seminary. So walk me through this part of your journey. What's happening?
T.J.:What are you experiencing?
Huiling:Many things happened. First of all, it's still the big question. Did God really call me? Because that's I feel like the pressure of my family and a lot of people in the church. Did God really call you, or are you just acting on your own?
Huiling:So, god, did you really call me? So that was an ongoing question in in almost throughout the the the whole school years, 5 years of school. Did god, did you really call me a woman, a Chinese woman who really there isn't any precedent precedence for me to refer to and and who did not really get that kind of support or agreement from her circles. And and to a degree, I had to really start everything afresh, everything new. God, did you really call me?
Huiling:So that was, an ongoing question, throughout the whole time. At the end of the day, the Lord just again used the scripture to finally really satisfy that question. That god can call the stones to to to to worship him. Why not a woman, a Chinese woman? Even though I'm a Chinese woman.
Huiling:Even though I'm a Chinese woman who was not supported by her husband to but god still can call me if he caught these stones to to to break up and to worship with praise. So, so that was the first question. 2nd question was, my marriage. So I already started a school and, my husband back then, he he was taking care of the children. I said I would, but things had happened in a way that he was taking care of the children and, but somehow he started a a legal process, to ask for support for for for a child endorsement, child support, but not allowing me to see the children at all.
Huiling:So that was also very, very difficult. So that was really kind of the end. I approached my mentor and I just said that this is what's going on And I'm not sure with no overnight, with the children and that was one thing that's really hard. On the other side, I would need to pay all these child support and and why you're paying for schooling and everything else. So that was the first time, she she said, well, I contacted somebody.
Huiling:Maybe you wanna call them for counseling. So that is a Christian counseling agency. So I called them and I talked to them about the situation. And then they said, well, possibly you need to talk to a Christian lawyer just to see, how how things, could move forward. But that's already the end of, I feel like, 2 years, of my effort trying to really work towards my marriage.
Huiling:So so in the previous 2 years, the Lord was still working inside of me to do what I need to do to see if we can truly, restore this marriage and restore this relationship. So that was the time I, really started to practice as a Christian what this other center, the love, what this unconditional love really means. It's not about what I think, what I want, what I wish. It's more about really what is really good with the relationship in the glory of of God. So I I start to realize that what does love really mean.
Huiling:Love, the ultimate form of love is what God has manifested to us through the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. When I will when I made the connection between that and what love really should mean in a marriage, in a family, that's where I started to learn to apply. So I went back to my family, to my to my husband, to the children, and I, really said I would wish you one thing that you would honor. That's the sense of my calling. But on the other side, for the issuers or whatever you think the family should do or whatever, I really started to back off.
Huiling:I really started to to to see each person's, wish and try to honor. Not perfectly, but that was my turn in that effort. But then I just realized that the marriage problem was not just my problem. I start to realize that that place where my husband, was just really mad at me doing, life this way now, which is very different to than before. Before I would get into a fight with him, but now I start to be silent, and that was not comfortable for him.
Huiling:Before I would talk about whatever nasty words he used, I would use or I would even use more, and I did not do that anymore. That was unsettling
T.J.:for him.
Huiling:So so over time, I come to a place I just really said, you know, I'm I'm I'm holding this marriage, and I'm not I'm just going to give this marriage whatever time and needs. But it really needs to take place with some external help. I don't think we're able to sort things through. And and we I do care about the children, and I do realize that if we could really see I'm putting the effort to see this marriage transformed. That is so much to the glory of God and I'm I'm all for that.
Huiling:Take whatever time and needs. So that's the place where I kind of hold the boundary that we will need help to with our conversation, with our ongoing, relationship. That's a place where he filed for child support. That's where I started to see a counselor and also consult a Christian lawyer.
T.J.:Was this your first introduction to Christian counseling? Did you could you see back then that this was leading up to maybe a ministry in the future?
Huiling:That was my first encounter with Christian counseling, that went off a period of time. I wanna say that, yeah, most difficult time, when it comes to later on the divorce and, even just the ability to see my children. So that was very supportive, very helpful. It was just so dedicated to me that time and a space. So yeah, that was one of the really very motivational moments for me to say, wow, How how powerful that that journey can be and it's it's really a very special type of ministry.
Huiling:And I I don't know if it will be something that I could possibly have, but if opportunity comes, I surely would embrace that. So, yeah, I think very much so that the the the motivation was there already.
T.J.:Wei Ling, how did you keep it together? Because your time here in the United States, as you're sharing your faith journey with me, is constantly changing and turnover and seeking and yearning. What? How did you keep it all together? Changes in your family, your career, you're a student.
T.J.:What just prevented you from throwing your hands up in the air and go, okay. I give up.
Huiling:No. Great question. Great question. As I as I see, this is really tying everything together that how how awesomely and wonderful each of us is made, and God has given each person very unique, traits. Mhmm.
Huiling:You have very unique upper brainings that would shape and nurture characteristics. I looking back, I I just really see how God has loved me way before, I become aware of his love. Even just in the village growing up, doing a lot of housework and chore and cutting grass to feed pigs and whatever. Those, things. A lot of traits were being nurtured, and one of them was really determination.
Huiling:Somehow he has wired me to, be able to be determined that there's a goal that I wanna work towards that goal. So, looking back when I, you know, mentioned about the first counseling session, God had it with me on that rice field. So that was really a a beginning of giving me a goal that I can just focus on that goal and really work the best effort I can towards that. So that has happened, later on along the journey that God has caught me to school. And this call is precious.
Huiling:And this call is really very hard fought, along the way, got, with me together. So that was something I would never give up. And on the other side, I I when when God, really nudged me to spend time with family to see really do my part to revive the marriage if possible. That was a goal. So I I I did my best.
Huiling:When the job I worked out with my supervisor, that job comes first. If there's any work, I will always devote on that first, and then I'll do my school. And he agreed on that, and he supported me for that. So I was able to do the work and and with with his approval and continue with the courses and and reading and and writing paper and all of that. So again, it was a very, determined goal that all of these things I should do.
Huiling:And, of course, it comes to a point when all these uphold apart and I just felt like I cannot do. I mean, it's that time that I come to the Lord for his strength. And interestingly, a lot of times, the strength comes through him from him, with with with the fasting. With the fasting, with more just dedicated focus on him knowing that it's really not my own strengths, not my own way. It is through him.
Huiling:So if something really difficult is coming up, I know it's beyond my own ability or or usually just, fast. So it was kind of back then very easy to do some of the, spiritual disciplines that really nourishes that connection with, God's strength in me through me.
T.J.:So what was it about the Christian counseling that you were receiving that brought this clarity, that fed your soul, that helped you as a student and kinda grow and lean into your calling into ministry?
Huiling:So yeah. Very good question. I I this is the a place where so countercultural, to me. In our culture, it's very communal, very collective. It is very much about, what is generally expected or thought about.
Huiling:It's always that case. What is in the group identity? What is supposed to be? A lot of, presuppositions over there. So so with the Christian counseling, it it's very opposite opposite way.
Huiling:What do you think? What are you experiencing? What is going on in you? What are you feeling? These are the questions we were never really asked.
Huiling:We were never really encouraged to to think about to answer. So so I think that counseling, even that format, and, of course, that format can be, reflected in many other ways. Right? Like, you know, with between me and my mentor and, me and a spiritual director. But with that counseling because the topic was just so focused on what is right now going on and that is really blocking you or creating a lot of difficulties and it is very difficult for you to go through alone or by yourself.
Huiling:So so that sense of it can sound very dangerously like individualistic, but from my collective background that was also very refreshing and beautiful that there is this sense of me, and I would like to extend that to another person to truly feel heard and understood.
T.J.:Yeah. Because I I wonder if the wayling back then in those discussions, in those conversations that you were responding with a more communal minded answers because that was your perspective. And and it's it's human nature as well. The decisions that we make have an impact on the children, on the family, on the community, and it has a rippling effect, sometimes good, sometimes bad. So, yeah, I imagine that those were what an internal struggle you must have been facing.
T.J.:You were it was freeing, but also the questions may not have been heard or framed in the right way to be able to even answer them?
Huiling:This is such a great question. Really good question. This has been like a soul searching question for me all along because of my, really the cultural ethnic background and even now the relationship I have with my family in china, friends in China. So if I it was expected that a lot of times you would go after what's known, what's expected. And and that is considered good.
Huiling:That was considered as something moral, something excellent, something good to do. That you would obey the pastors. You would oh, you would, ask someone who can give. And a lot of times, I trust and believe they do. They do give a lot of good spiritual guidance that congregations a lot of times are expected it to revere and, to to to follow and take.
Huiling:And and there's a god not good in that, but I just think that in our culture, that has become such an extreme to a degree that it's I feel like it's hard for god to speak to each individual person in and and and without having that collective as a bigger force than god. And this is always an ongoing struggle, Amy. What is I mean, a lot of times I'm thinking if it was somebody else, they would have maybe said, yeah. You guys are right. I really need to really focus on my family.
Huiling:I mean, it has impact on my children. So I think something deep down intuitively, I'm thinking if this is just the same pattern all the time, I'm only becoming an an accomplice to a system
T.J.:Mhmm.
Huiling:There that there's a lot of he says, she says, that kind of say, but intuitively not really feeling especially Chinese people or Chinese Christians, something always comes out in me wondering, is this from the culture or is this from God? And I think that this question might even be able to be placed in a broader situation with even many other Christians that is that true each individual Christian eve even if each individual Chinese female Christian, are they really feeling that direct relationship with God and really truly feeling such just and adored daughter of God and that kind of relationship and and really having their own identity and a voice. Again, it can sound very dangerous as a feministic kind of thing, and and I know that. But on the other side, because of that kind of lack of emphasis, even awareness for for that kind of individual voice so that you sometimes receive from God individually and then and then talk to individually instead of always placed under the husband and under the the church leaders or authority.
T.J.:Yeah. And it's really hard for me to understand, like, the honor and shame society that comes more with the communal aspect of of decision making and belief systems that we find in other ethnic brothers and sisters that it must be difficult. And I and I've you've done a great kind of painting, this portrait of the struggles and the determination and the fortitude that you have experienced through, throughout your life. Almost well, all your life at this point. So if we could, you let's go back.
T.J.:We we were talking about your life as a, Denver Seminary employee and a student and receiving counseling and also exploring the call to ministry, whatever that may look like?
Huiling:So fast forward, I did finish 10 years of, graduate school at Dennis Seminary. I, up to this day, I, graduated in the 19, was working, as an intern and then later 2 years at a Christian counseling organization. And then last year, I also, become a licensed last year, a licensed professional counselor, and I started a private practice. And we were exploring with the, Del Crystal Presbyterian. There's a, a ministry headed by, reverend Marty Erring and and some others, for the formation counseling service.
Huiling:And we were praying and thinking, look how council ministry can really be brought into churches as partners to provide professional counseling to church congregations and, the the neighborhood of the broader community that had started in different states, mainly in New Mexico and and, Georgia. And and we were talking about starting that in Colorado. So so now, with that the church I'm I'm no longer with, 316. I'm just attending a church next to my home. It's a a pretty vibrant community church, and I'm trying to involve as much as I can more from the counseling counselors background.
Huiling:Just kinda again, as I said, sitting with people from where they are now and and see this in this journey, how where they can be. And, hopefully, I don't I don't know how things will transpire, but I'm thinking I have some glimpse of future ministry of truly starting that formation counseling service here in Colorado and going into further study and the ministry of really helping Christians go through a lot of emotional pain and the family of of origin issues that are really blocking them from receiving the abundant life in Christ. This is the one area that just needs some kind of different approach. Then a lot of the approach great approaches the church has been doing and which is really the bottom up approach. You can include a lot of, components there like, you know, mentoring, spiritual friendship, spiritual director, and and and counselor.
Huiling:And it's it's very much bottom up approach over there. It's a lot of times, it is just really to deal with a lot of deep emotional pain and family of origin issues. In my private practice and also in the previous years at the agency, I have come across many Christians who opened up to me and and and shared a lot of that deep stuff and see how the how these things are impacting them from more effective, ministry, more, better, more effective relationships in the family and with others and and how that is blocking the way. And sometimes people just have a little bit glimpse of ideas of that is through a journey to where they feel so much more free. So I see how that area can become some kind of para church ministry and and along the way, That is something I'm praying about.
Huiling:I am seeking and see how God is going to transpire along the way. So that is one big area, of how this counseling ministry can really be, a a ministry come alongside the local churches to to, create more vibrant, more, stronger, Christian communities. So that is, I feel like one big dream and one kind of big vision that God has placed in front of me. Another part is always there in the back of my head, which is what does my Chineseness have to do with me as a Christian and, professional identity as a counselor and also as a minister for the gospel to reach them. This is always constantly, a part of me.
Huiling:I remember the initial sense of calling is to, be called ministers for for the Chinese ministry. And me as a Chinese has has its core meaning and it has its deeper sense, and I feel like this is not the end. There's something about my Chineseness with so much so many Chinese that God has a heart for, that God loves, that really could hear the gospel. And and what way, what channel, especially in terms of all that is going on in China. Now, it is a very unsettling time in China with COVID and everything else.
Huiling:So these two things, more present is the ongoing counseling ministry. And something back of my head is what does my Chineseness have to do with really Chinese ministry according to my calling.
T.J.:And so here we are again, Wei Ling, living in that tension of unanswerable questions in the moment. This journey that you've been sharing with me is this this tension of seeking answers for questions that are yet to be answered. What advice do you have for those who aren't comfortable or always, don't always want to live in the tension of mystery and of the unknown? You don't have to answer yeah. You
Huiling:don't have to answer experience.
T.J.:Oh, go ahead.
Huiling:Oh, oh, yeah. I have I have really something to share. I feel like, so I realized I'm pretty determined. And on the other side, I'm pretty bold and I feel like anything good in life, especially when it comes to, calling, is the boldness to be willing to take on risks because nothing is really for certain placed in front of us. God really encourages us to to live out the sense of calling, not like a minion.
Huiling:Right? Not like a minion. But really as a human person, as, Christ's disciple to be willing to take risks, to not to be afraid of mistakes. And so many times we've learned from mistakes. So, that's just a sense of me.
Huiling:I just feel like be bold. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. Be true to what is working inside of us by through the prompt of the spirit and keep going. And and along the way, the Lord is going to correct us. The lord is going to lead us.
Huiling:The lord is going to maybe even divert us to the places we need to go, but, we need to be bold. So my own weakness and shortcoming is that sometimes we cannot be too bold to go ahead of god. So that is something for me to keep in mind.
T.J.:Share with me how you found the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, or how did the Cumberland Presbyterian Church find you?
Huiling:So we have to mention about this couple, the Hesses in Colorado. Rick Hess is an old testament professor at the seminary, and and he and his wife, co lead a ministry constitutionalized a church approved church of the denomination. So, somebody somebody on the seminary campus, they were saying that they started I think her name is Peggy. Peggy started at they said that they started, visiting this 316 church. Maybe maybe you wanna go and take a look.
Huiling:It's small, but it's very, focused on personal connection. So so that kind of appeared to me back then and I said, okay, I'll go visit. So that's how I visited and stayed. I mean even people come in and go, they changed, but I stayed I stayed from 2013 all the way pretty much till this year. This year then I shared with them that, because of my side and also because of sense of God's leading, I'm attending this, bigger community church over here just near my home.
Huiling:So it is through, the Hess' and their journey of becoming an, organized, constitutionalized church of of the denomination that I also become a part of the denomination.
T.J.:What is it about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church that you find fascinating and attractive? And how does that exhibit and when I say it, how do we as an institution, an faith?
Huiling:It is a confession of faith and is also because of the history that the origin of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church was that spirit led diversion of the direction. Right? I mean, originally, they could have just followed the rules and ignored all these people in the inner states, their need to hear the gospel. So so they followed the leading of the spirit that went through almost like a very difficult period of time in the desert time. Right?
Huiling:And then for this, denomination to be birthed in that spirit led place all the way here and developed this, doctrine and and, the confession of faith, which is so generous but very, biblical historical Christianity focused. Right? But very generous. A lot of, the the the points reading through the confession of faith, recognizing, I mean in some of the practices as well. Right?
Huiling:So so the the confession of faith and also the practices of ordaining women and and almost the earliest adopted black clergy and away from some kind of the very rigorous debate, doctrinal debate, and in terms of salvation. So so I just felt like reading through the confession of faith, it was just very freeing and refreshing instead of reading through some of the doctrines that can be very limiting. I I had an analogy. I may feel like sometimes reading through some of the doctrines of other denominations, you feel like you're trying to get away through an alley while you're reading through the confession as a face of Convent Presbyterian Church, if you're like you're led to the top of, a hill, a mountain, and it just just so broad, so free, so generous, and and it's it's there. This is the way of God for all people.
Huiling:But, also, do not stick to the very rigid dogma that only this way and only that there is a lot of generous space to to allow God to work the ways he works. Very unexpected there are a lot of times, and I think the confession of faith of crumbling sprinter Presbyterian Church holds that very big view and a very generous space for that.
T.J.:Have you found your home in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church? Because we were talking earlier in yeah. We were talking earlier of that search of finding a community where you could be wailing, where you could be bold and determined and a person of fortitude?
Huiling:I I would say yes. This past 7 years has been really good, journey, gradually. So this March is supposed to be really like the 1st preservatory pips for a meeting, and because my flight was canceled and I wasn't, able to go there. But I really do intend to find found a mentor within the presbytery and try to go to, every presbytery meeting and and even join some committees. And I would love to just to continue to connect with as many, ministers as possible and along the way, finding really yeah.
Huiling:Just just the nurturing and the connection and and and really the home, the spiritual home. Yes.
T.J.:Let's go back to something that you were talking about earlier and incorporating Christian counseling into the the church as we know it today and for the church in the future. In terms of your visioning, what could that really look like? What could the day to day operation I've already made it sound like an institution, and I didn't mean to. But what could Christian counseling look like, as the church moves forward into the 21st century?
Huiling:Especially with millennials and later generations, relationship is such a core component. And and, really just feeling heard and understood individually is such a core task for people to really willing to come alongside and really be a part of community. I I feel like Christian, counseling ministry really can be a good add on as a type of ministry to to nurture and even find ways how to really welcome everybody and hear everybody's voice in a way that is really Christ honoring and Christ centered. But meanwhile, also on the other side, not losing sight of, of our doctrine of of the gospel just for the sake of of relationship. So I, I'm still in a way of exploring how that kind of ministry will be like besides just the one hour in the counseling room.
Huiling:How do we meet with people, with a very rich, relationship and nurturing type of atmosphere with people, in the church, and even as an imaginalistic, effort as well.
T.J.:Isn't it wonderful to think that maybe a person's first encounter with the good news is through counseling or is through group therapy where you're able to really connect the struggles and joys and celebrations of life with a faith that you are just being introduced to, really, for the first time. It's fascinating to think about that through the the care that can come through counseling, someone may hear or be more receptive to hear the good news in Jesus Christ. It's really fascinating.
Huiling:I resonate with you. Absolutely. But on the other side, I also have that stance as lord, how really do I do that well to the way that I can see that is really working? I'm constantly again in the struggle of honoring and listening to others. And meanwhile, how it really bring into awareness of really the deep need of each person to have the relationship with God because the relationship with me that they feel like this space is helpful is only so transient and and and so temporal.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Huiling:And and I really deep down feel this is not what I'm called to do in its own end by its own end. I'm really caught to do to establish help people have wanting and establishing relationship with God, their own God, their own Lord.
T.J.:Mhmm. Well, I would be doing a great disservice if I didn't ask you you know, clergy burnout is real. What recommendations, what suggestions do you have for Christians and for ministers to take care of themselves in a healthy way, you know, mentally, spiritually, and physically?
Huiling:This is a okay. Also, a great question. I have constantly been asking myself as well. I I did well for a season, and then I see myself lapsing on that, and I try to come back. So I 1st and foremost, I will recognize, maybe from my own experience that we do go through this kind of waves.
Huiling:Some sometimes we do really good and other times work got in the way or whatever other reasons it could cause us to not to be very consistent, always just gently come back and get on the way of life, the rhythm of life, The rhythm of life is very holistic. Right? So, I I that reminds me of this this charge given by Reverend Marty Goring. He's just really said, you know, devotion before service. It's always important to remember devotion before service.
Huiling:It's not by our own power. So spiritually maintaining this ongoing connection with the Lord, with the spirit on a daily basis. If not daily, I mean, come to understand if it's not daily, then that can be dangerous. So always come back together to maintain this daily connection through devotion with the Lord. Take on healthier diet diet.
Huiling:And lifestyle is always important. Yeah. And then always get in some active time as well. And I see myself doing really good sometimes, relapsing other times and then trying to come back. That's my journey.
Huiling:But, again, I think we all know what is really good. We just encourage each other to always come back to that good rhythm.
T.J.:Yeah. You know, you made me think of something I hadn't thought of before is when we miss the rhythm, maybe a step to be added is to forgive yourself, because you can't always stay in rhythm. Life happens that may disrupt that rhythm. And then that sense of guilt that can happen. Oh, I didn't take a walk today, or I didn't exercise, or I ate cake instead of an apple, or whatever it is that it may be for that individual is to forgive.
T.J.:Because the last thing I think the ministers can do is just layer on that guilt, that sense of I'm not doing enough, I'm not doing it well enough, and we just keep pushing our own back and further away, and our own can be our own self and our family as well. I think it's a real it's a real temptation to be able to do those things. And with the counseling and experience that you have that I needed to ask you before we jumped off this conversation to hear your input and insight.
Huiling:Really good question. A lot of people do that, me included. That, sometimes we have a higher expectation of ourselves. So when we fail, we have a terrible time and then that does not help. I really feel like that kind of gentleness.
Huiling:This is a saying that I usually share with clients is that a lot of a lot of times God is more gentle with us than ourselves when it comes to to moments like this. He sees us as child. Do your father, you get up and you keep going. Right? He he is he sees this as as as his children taking on this journey.
Huiling:And we see ourselves as more like someone who's supposed to go steady and fast and effective all the way. So it yeah. At the end of the day, we have expected us or has looked at us as someone really we are not. If we take on God's posture towards us as a child coming to him and and constantly reach out to him and and and asking the support and help. And and he always responds with with a lot more acceptance, a lot more acceptance of who we are, just like Jesus was always saying to the disciples.
Huiling:It's like you have little faith. And sometimes that's where who we are. But we just need to always
T.J.:Right.
Huiling:Come back and and and accept ourselves as God has accepted us. And and it just keep going in the direction we need to go.
T.J.:And I don't know if that becomes easier or harder as I get older. I become more aware of my limitations. Yeah. But I don't know if that makes it any easier. But I did want to reach out and and to ask you to help others to think about themselves in healthy ways, and that's physically and spiritually and mentally, and not to neglect those aspects of of our life because it it, it affects our discipleship.
Huiling:Absolutely. Yes.
T.J.:Wei Ling, thank you so much for carrying me through your life and giving me a perspective of you growing up in the struggles and the tensions and the boldness it takes to keep asking god and seeking what god has for you. You're a wonderful example, for me and feel honored to to know you and call you a colleague in ministry.
Huiling:Thank you so much, TJ. It's such an honor for me. Thank you.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to the Cumberland Road podcast and all of your support that you have given me. If you enjoy this podcast, please consider downloading and subscribing. A conversation with Huiling keeps pointing me back to the French philosopher, Amin Malouf, in his book, In the Name of Identity. So I close with these words. He writes, if anyone wants to save his own language from dying out, if anyone wants to make the culture he grew up in known and respected by the world as a whole, if anyone wants to see the community he belongs to attain freedom and democracy and well-being, The battle is not lost in advance. Examples from every continent show that those who fight skillfully against tyranny, segregation, and contempt and neglect often win, as do those who fight against famine and ignorance and epidemics. We live in a wonderful age in which anyone with an idea, whether it be inspired, perverse, or useless, can communicate it to 1,000,000 within 24 hours. If you believe in something and have enough energy and passion and love of life, you can find among the resources offered by the world the means to make some of your dreams come true.
