James Byrd - God Is Calling Me To Do Something
You're listening to The Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinowski. A common perception of a minister is an earth shaking charismatic persona, Quick with a story, a joke, a Bible verse that can envelope the room and captivate everyone's attention. But, every minister is built a little differently and expands that perception that a minister can also be mild, soft spoken, unassuming, and approaches ministry with humility. Reverend James Byrd may very well embody the latter, approaching the ministry with the pastor's eyes and ears, observing and listening to both God and the people that he has been called to serve. There is validity to this approach to ministry as James has been doing it for over 53 years. He has served congregations in Kentucky and Tennessee. And despite my nonlinear questions, he keeps his faith conversation on track with some efforts towards chronology. For transparency, I asked James to be a guest on the podcast because he has been influential in my own faith. Years ago, and sight unseen, James asked a silly yet idealistic 18 year old punk kid to speak at the church that he was serving. Timing was perfect as the opportunities to preach and practice ministry were few. For this, I am grateful. Here is the faith journey of James Byrd.
T.J.:James, you got a taste of ministry while you were in the military. And you and I, we have not talked about this yet, but I was very intrigued to hear of your service in the armed forces and your first encounter as a chaplain.
James:Well, I was a chaplain's assistant, and, I finished my basic training. I had my orders that I would go on to Fort Leslie J McNair in Washington DC. And, as I was starting over to the mess hall, I for some reason, as I got to the last KP, started over to mess hall and ran into my commanding officer. And he stopped me and got to talk, and he says, do you know where you're going? I said, yes, sir.
James:I'm going to Washington DC to Fort McNair. Oh, that's great, he said. What's your grandma with? I said, I don't know, sir. All I had was a number.
James:So he talked a minute or 2 and left. I got to Washington DC processing in. And when I got to my, my unit in the office there. This corporal asked me what my MOS was. I said, I don't know.
James:So he calls the personnel section department and asked them. They didn't know. So he said, we'll find out you got an a r there. So he he said, okay. So he's a petroleum storage specialist.
James:He said, we don't have that here on this post. Personnel officer said, no. We do not. So he gets off the phone. He said, well, Bert, we don't have that position here.
James:Go around the day room. Stay there for a while. But I guess we're gonna make the beauty soldier out of it. Uh-oh. Well, that was something that really did interest me because here I was in Washington, DC, a duty soldier who's gonna be somebody that was stationed at the White House or, you know, some some big deal.
T.J.:You had you had big dreams for this role. Yep.
James:Right. So I was up getting everything squared away when the other guys got off of duty. And, this one guy came across the barracks and introduced himself, and he says, you're new, aren't you? I said, yes. I am.
James:He said, what's your MOS? And I told him, he said, we don't have that here, do we? I said, no. He said, what are they gonna do with you? I said, they're gonna make a deadly soldier out of me.
James:Oh, no. No. No. No. No.
James:No. I thought, okay. What's going on? He said, you don't want that because that's someone that's gonna catch every dirty detail coming and going. He said, I'm a chaplain's assistant, and I've got 90 days until I'm headed now.
James:There's no replacement for me. How would you like to be a chaplain's assistant? So, you know, first time to be back from home for any distance and any time, I don't I didn't know what it's all about. So I I said, okay. So, the next day, I was processing the end of you know, I had to fill all of the post.
James:When I got to the chaplain's office, the chaplain called me and sat there and talked with me for about an hour. And his question was, how would you like to come to work for me? Oh, no. Okay. That'd be great.
James:So I got back to the to the barracks, and the corporal down office came up and said, Vern, give report to the chaplain's office o $800 in the morning. K. So that is where I began. I was working as chaplain's assistant in Washington DC. Was enjoying everything I was doing.
James:And we had to go to the old headquarters to get our mail. So I went down one day to get the mail. I've been there, almost 90 days, which is enough time to get my m o s changed. So I went down and, had to go through personnel office and, to get the mail and I walked by and heard, hey, Bert, come here. I took this cat back.
James:This, warrant officer sitting here. Come here. I wanna talk to you. I said, yes, sir. He said, how would you like to go to Germany?
James:So I said, well, I think it'd be alright. He said, it didn't make any difference. You got your orders to go here. So when I got back to the chaplain's office, I was sitting there looking at orders. Chaplain walked out, and he says, Jim, have you got a letter from home?
James:I said, no, sir. Well, what is it? I said, I've got orders. I'm going to Germany. He said, oh, no.
James:You're not. They're not going through me that way when I get an airplane assistance in here and get him turned away online. They're not about to take it this way. He went into his office, came back out from his. He said, Jim, I can't do you that way.
James:You're gonna go. I said, yes, sir. So, I went to, New York, and I think I was there for about 3 or 4 days. 2nd day I was there, they fell us out into formation, fixed up to this building. And over here to my my left were chairs, and to my right was a caged off area.
James:And this sergeant came up there and he said, when you hear your name called, do you go to the window where the person called your name? I said, okay. So a little bit, my name was called. I walked up to first thing, it was, I believe it was a sergeant. First thing he asked, everything on your orders is correct, isn't it?
James:I said, no. It isn't. Well, what's wrong? I said, my MOS. You're not a petroleum storage specialist?
James:I said, no, sir. I'm not. But what are you? I'm a chaplain's assistant. It's not on here.
James:I said, but I was in process to getting my MOS changed when these orders came in. I was over in half a seat. I don't know what we're gonna do. Within 24 hours, new orders were cut on me, and I was going to Germany, not as a petroleum storage specialist, but as a chaplain's assistant.
T.J.:You were Germany bound regardless.
James:Absolutely. Absolutely. I, I got there, and it was a it was a great experience. First time I had ever been out of United States. New language, new people, but it was interesting.
James:I enjoyed it. And, I served as a chaplaincy assistant. And all the chaplaincy system did or, I mean, all that I was to do was to take care of the chaplaincyn books and then get set up for the, chapel service on Sunday morning. It's I went back. That was the big deal.
James:It worked out. I I went to enter that office. I was a little bit skeptical about things because I went through, you know, that's what everything was all about. I hadn't been in the army all that long. I made the best of it.
James:And, I've gotten well acquainted with the guys that work in personnel office because we were all in the same parents. I went to this hall one one day at noontime and sitting there with the guys in the personnel office. Wanted to look over and says, how would you like to get an early out? I said, what do you mean? Well, how would you like an early out?
James:I said, I guess it'd be okay. He said, that's alright. You got it. I was due to get out of the army until the 6th November, the 9th day of of October, I was processing out and coming back to United States. I couldn't understand what it's all about.
James:So why did I get out? Because this was at the time that the the man was built in up. It was really becoming hot. The guys I was stationed with were being called up, given a reinforcement talk. Someone called up and said your time has been extended.
James:But here, I get it early. Yeah.
T.J.:Now did you enlist or were you drafted?
James:I was I was drafted.
T.J.:Okay. So right out of high school?
James:No. No. I, I graduated from high school in 56, and I didn't get drafted until 61.
T.J.:Okay. What were your plans, after graduation?
James:I thought I was going to go into bookkeeping. I knew something about Bethel College. So my plans were to go to Bethel College and get a degree in business administration. And someone in my family said you're not gonna do that. If you want to get a business degree, go here to Knoxville, and, enrolled in a business school.
James:That wasn't for me. I didn't do it. I couldn't do it. That was what it's all about.
T.J.:Was it So To interrupt you for a moment. So going did you enroll and try it and discover that bookkeeping wasn't for you, or was the was it you wanted you had your eyes on Bethel College?
James:I had my eyes on Bethel College. And then sometime after I oh, I wasn't going wasn't going to Bethel College. I I realized bookkeeping business administration is not mine for taking.
T.J.:Okay. Alright. So you're kind of
James:in limbo. I did in limbo.
T.J.:Yeah. You're in limbo, and then you get the draft letter. How did you get into the, after you finished basic, how did you get appointed into the petroleum role?
James:That that was a funny situation too. I worked for a man. I was a member of my home church. He ran in a little grocery store and a gas station, and I worked for him. And, when I was inducted into the army, we had to fill out papers.
James:And one of the questions on there was, what do you desire to do in the in the army? And I looked down across there, and I was clerical worker. That's that's what I signed up for. When they started talking with me to do the interview, this guy looked at me and he says, why you want to do work? I said, because I had some interest of mine.
James:Well, why were you working at a great gas station? I said, because that was the only thing I could get. He said, well, you're not gonna be up there. That's how I got in to be a petroleum storage specialist. Oh, okay.
James:I'm I'm thankful now that I didn't get to be a petroleum storage specialist because I think I could've I could've had to.
T.J.:You grew up in the Maryville, Tennessee area.
James:Yes.
T.J.:And, what church did you and your family attend?
James:First Compartment Presbyterian Church.
T.J.:Is that the same is that the same building that's, present now, or was it a different building at the time?
James:Yes. It was in that in the same building that is there today. I received my call into the ministry, but I felt God working with me some years before. I wasn't sure what it's all about.
T.J.:Alright. Well, let's talk a little bit about that time. I know we we started with you as a young adult. So let's go back to your childhood. You grew up in the Maryville First Church, Cumberland Presbyterian Church, and, that's currently, that's on well, it's in town.
T.J.:And was that considered in town, during that time?
James:It wasn't as much in town as it is now. Mhmm. When I was a child, people all around the church had chickens. We had chickens. We had some hogs.
James:So, you know, it was kinda on the outskirts of what we would call town. Now town has moved out.
T.J.:Oh, yeah. Moved out and beyond the church.
James:Yeah. Yes.
T.J.:So it was in that church that you was introduced to the Christian faith.
James:Well, let me go back. There was a time when I was a youngster. I think I had the knowledge of the Christian faith. I hadn't made my professional faith.
T.J.:Mhmm.
James:But I can recall it to this day. We lived on the main highway between Neerville and Knoxville, and our our yard was fenced in. So that meant I couldn't get outside fence to do anything unless I was going with some of my family, but I I can still remember. I would get out there, and I'd find 2 little stick. And I'd put them together in a cross form.
James:And when a car would come by, I would run one direction, but it did not say, Jesus sake, and then do the same thing, go back. I kept doing that until my mother called me in. I I I had some knowledge of Christian faith, but I didn't have some knowledge of Christian faith came to me a little later. Mhmm. And, when I when we built our new building, I think there's where God really started working with me.
James:And, it was like that, which I began to understand, made my profession of faith, and started to grow as a Christian.
T.J.:How old were you when you made your profession of faith? Do you remember?
James:I was 10 years of age, I believe.
T.J.:Wow. A young man.
James:Yes.
T.J.:Well, did you keep, running up and down the fence line, sharing your sharing your faith?
James:Not phones. My my mother, wouldn't permit me to do that. She said, don't do that. She said, somebody might get offended. You know, somebody tells me somebody might get offended by what I do.
James:If I'm doing it for the Lord, it doesn't make any difference.
T.J.:Alright. We've jumped around a little bit, and I interrupted you. Let's pick back up. You were being shipped back home, got an early release, and, returned home from Germany back to United States.
James:Mhmm. Mhmm.
T.J.:When you were the chaplain's assistant let's stay there for a moment. Was that an affirmation, maybe an exposure to a vocation in ministry?
James:Yes. I think so. But I let me back up just a little bit a little bit here. In my home church, the year I graduated from high school, we had a revival going on. And it was during the time that school was in session.
James:Really? Yes. And, my high school was up the hill there from our church, and we were playing our archrival on Friday night. And sitting there and wanting to give God all my intake and all. I can hear this jail go up in the football field.
James:And, I wanted to be there, but there was something that the evangelist said that touched me right to the core of my heart. And when the service is over, my 2 brothers who were older than I started up. Okay. And I never will get my oldest brother. I said, come home.
James:Let's go. I said, I'm not home. What's the matter? I said, I just can't go. I walked out the front door and came around and walked in by by pastor's office.
James:And he came around there, and he said, James, what do you do in here? I said, I need to talk to you. He said, hey. What's going on? And I told him, come on.
James:You're going with me and the evangelist. I've gotta take him back to the motel. Spent 2 hours with him. Mhmm. And the pastor told me, he said, James, I feel that you are a Christian, but I also feel that God is calling you to do something.
James:Now I want you to go back this night, and I want you to pray that God will reveal it to you. Right? Like, when I got paid to go to bed, I prayed. I asked God to reveal to me whatever it was he wanted of me. And, I cut off the spoon a little bit, and I had freedom that night.
James:And that dream was that we were in our old church building, which the new church building was built around it.
T.J.:Okay.
James:And we was in the old building, and there was somebody standing up at the pulpit. I couldn't see his face, but he had on the rope. You know, at that time, all pulpit roads replied. If you had any then you called the wrong the longest flight. I found myself there.
James:Throw my arms around that person and tell him I was dedicating my life to that. I have to let God had his hand right there, and God had his hand. And my life when he's put me in the Washington DC is when he sent me to Germany. And, so I got to Germany, and I was working for the chaplain that was a Lutheran. Then he came back to the States.
James:His replacement was and I don't I don't mean this in any bad way. But he was, replacement was a Baptist minister. Well, we also had the 3rd infantry on the post there in Germany, and the 3rd chaplain had officers in the post chapel. And, one day, the captain's assistant came over, and he says, kind of a demanding voice. He says, captain wants to be paid for his cleaning experience.
James:And it kept on. I said, I'm sorry. I cannot do Well, you you keep the book, don't you? I said, yes. I do.
James:Well, you can do it. I said, no. I can't. The captain's not here to approve it, and I do not expend any monies unless he approves. About that time, the Catholic chaplain walks into my office, a major.
James:And he says, I don't want to be paid from that plane. I said, sir, I cannot do it. Well, why can't you? The chaplain's not here to do it or to approve it, and I cannot be, prove it. You got a, don't you?
James:I said, yes, sir. I can't expend any money out for that unless the chaplain shared the truth. And, boy, he was he was not ready to turn into me when the post chaplain came in, and he walked in. They says, Tim, what's going on? I said, the captain wants to be reimbursed for cleaning, and I was telling him I could not do it because you were not here to prove it.
James:He said, you're absolutely right. And he turned around to that Catholic chaplain who outranked him, and he said, my chaplain's assistant is in the right. You're in the wrong. Don't ever go up here and talk to my my assistant again like that. They got into it.
James:So help me. I saw stuff there. I've never saw before in my life, not even through basic training. These 2 ministers of god were standing there face to face, and their noses almost to almost touching, yelling at each other. And with all due respect, there were some penalties that were out in hell.
James:And, finally, the Catholic chaplain apologized to me and walked back over to his office. The chaplain I was working for, the last name chaplain, He said, James, I'm sorry you had to hear that. I thought, okay. You don't need to apologize to me. You know, there's a higher up.
James:But, anyway, I thought that might be called up for a court martial because I refused an officer request. But then later on, I found out, no. I did the right thing, and there was no way that, charged me with anything. So
T.J.:Yeah. But you had that moment of fear because
James:I did.
T.J.:You didn't know.
James:At, I truly believe in all of that time while I was here in the States as a chaplain system, while I was there internally. God truly spoke to me. Touched me without this spirit in such a way that I felt a freak, relief at ease when I came back home. I could take you to my home church this very day, and I could take you to the very spot where I was sitting that Sunday when my pastor was preaching. And the closing hymn was announced.
James:I took a hymn look out of the hymn rack, opened it up, couldn't even get the first word of the hem out. Mhmm. I closed it up and dropped it back down in there, and I walked for him. Pastor said to him, James, I said, there's something I'm supposed to be doing. I'm not sure.
James:You feel like God's got something for you? I said, I feel like God has something for me. I don't know. He talks with me, and later on, he came by and talked with me again. And then first, next thing I knew, I was going before a Presbyterian.
James:He received his candidate for the magistrate.
T.J.:So you became a candidate for ministry. Well, you know, I guess that those moments, serving as a chaplain's assistant, you were able to see, well, pieces that were the best of Christianity and maybe some of the worst
James:of Yes.
T.J.:Christian behavior towards one another.
James:Right.
T.J.:And that could have affirmed a call or affirmed no call into ministry or or just just a Christian in general based upon others' behaviors.
James:Absolutely.
T.J.:So you became a candidate for ministry, and what school did you attend?
James:Bethel College.
T.J.:So here we are again at Bethel, but not for bookkeep keeping.
James:Oh, no. It was not.
T.J.:At that time, did Bethel have a, a program, a educational path for people who were called into ministry? An an undergraduate degree?
James:We had a an area that specialized in ministry. It probably changed some since I've been there, since that was a university that might be changed some.
T.J.:What was your focus of study when you went to Bethel?
James:I had a double major. I majored in English. Now mine's not that great today. And, I majored in religion.
T.J.:Okay. When you attended Bethel, was the seminary also located there, or had it already moved to Memphis?
James:It had moved to Memphis, I think, in the spring or the summer of 60 4, and I enrolled in in the 6th fall of 64.
T.J.:Oh, okay. So you were one of the first students at Memphis Theological Seminary in its new location?
James:No. No. No. I've had I I went to Bethel in 64. I, is in my, sophomore year, And I had, a stomach ulcer and hemorrhage with me.
James:I had to drop out. So I went back and I finished my college degree, in 60 69 because of the time frame that was I'm dropping down.
T.J.:Oh, okay. Okay. Well, now you met your wife while you were a student at Bethel. Correct?
James:Yes. Yes. I did.
T.J.:Now did you and Linda know each other beforehand because, geographically speaking, you really weren't that far apart in East Tennessee.
James:No. We were about 45 miles apart and did not know each other until we both found up at Bethel.
T.J.:Oh, interesting. Interesting. So how did you how did you meet at Bethel and begin dating?
James:Cumberland Church there had a class for college students. And, one Sunday, I got there just a week bit late and walked into the sunsuit last night with 1 chair vacant, and it's outside Linda. Now we had been taught, you know, and had been around campus together. Mhmm. And, then when we started over to to the sanctuary for, worship, somebody stopped me to talk with me about, the college program.
James:We had it all night. And, so when I got there, there was only well, because the concourse team is all set in the same section. And, there was only one place open, and it's the side of Linda. So I still get to this. We walked out and standing out there in front of the church talking, and I asked her.
James:I said, do you need to ride back? Oh, she said, no. I'm with my ring light. And then she looked at me, and she says, and how are we gonna get home for Thanksgiving? I said, I don't know.
James:I hadn't thought about it. I said, I do have a car. She's, would you mind if I ride with So not that little did I realize, I'm sure you have heard of Bobby Rutledge.
T.J.:Mhmm. Oh, yeah.
James:He was the one that instigated Linda and myself getting together.
T.J.:Oh, okay.
James:So but, well, he he wasn't the only one. There were certain mothers that had a hinge. They they were seeing something that I probably didn't see, so they got us together. After that was when I was in seminary, I but we married.
T.J.:Alright. How long have you been married, you and Linda?
James:It would be 50 53 years this August.
T.J.:Wow. 53 years. Congratulations.
James:Well, thank you.
T.J.:Well, let's jump ahead a little bit. I know we just kinda breezed over Bethel and and Memphis Theological Seminary, but let's talk about the, your service as a minister and the pastorate. What are some of the different congregations that you have served over the course of your ministry?
James:Well, when I was in seminary, I supplied a church in, Mississippi, Hernando, Mississippi. It was a union church, Methodist Presbyterian USA. I supplied that for a year or so. I had my first pastor. It was a 3 church parish in the Fucal area.
James:Then I went there to Kentucky, the vessel number 1, and then I went there to no. I think I when I was in the football area, I got a call to Mount Pleasant Church in Tennessee. So I went there, spent, some time there, and, got called to Kentucky. I was in Kentucky for six and a half years. Got a call to Houston, Tennessee.
James:Stayed with them for 6 years. Got a callback to Bethel number 1 in in Kentucky. I stayed with them last time for for over 20 years.
T.J.:Wow. And you've spent a good part of your life in Kentucky now and certainly your ministry.
James:Yes. Most most, both of my ministry has been right here in Kentucky.
T.J.:Yeah. Let's talk about some of the individuals that have impacted your life and impacted your faith journey, deepened it, and and by proxy have have also impacted your your ministry in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
James:I think the first person that probably had the morphed influence in that line was, the late time it's bright. He was pastor of my own church. He kinda took me under his wing. He kinda nudged me along. He encouraged me.
James:I never will forget. I hadn't yet committed to ministry, but, that was a special Sunday. And he asked me to do a portion of the sermon. And, I I didn't know anything about it. But I did the best I could do, and I did not find this out until sometime after I went into the ministry.
James:How much Bright told my mother because it's his. Your son is going to be a minister. He did a fantastic job here at this church when he did what he did. I'm not saying that to pat myself on the back because I do not feel like I do a fantastic job. But, he he was one that made big impact on me.
James:Hubert Marl Mhmm. Impacted my life while I was at Bethel. Then I went to seminary. Few people there in particular. Doctor Engler and Colin Baird.
James:Mhmm.
T.J.:2 professors at at that time.
James:Yes. Doctor Ingram was, was the president at that time.
T.J.:Okay.
James:And, doctor Barron was my field adviser. Either of those 2 men, I felt like I could go to anytime and talk with them and might feel like, hey. We don't have enough time for you. They always had time. And, you know, that that has meant more to me than a lot of people will ever know.
T.J.:I wanna tell a story on you, years ago years ago, one of the churches that you were serving was having a revival, and you invited, sight unseen, 2, no, maybe 3 different Bethel students who were candidates for ministry to do a night or 2 there at the church that you were serving. I don't remember the name of it, but it was in Kentucky.
James:Bethel number 1.
T.J.:Bethel number 1.
James:Mhmm.
T.J.:And what in the world were you thinking when you, had Bethel students under the care of various presbyteries to come up and and have that opportunity. And I'm asking as one of I was one of the 2 or the 3 that you invited that year, and you had never met me, and that has impacted my own calling in the ministry because unknown to you at that time, and maybe this is for a lot of of those who are called into ministry at a fairly young age, There's that level of frustration of, you know, just, kind of cut me loose and and and allow me to exhort or preach, and give me those opportunities. And there were periods in my life where those were few and far between, and that happened to be one of them. You're always encouraged. Encouraged.
T.J.:And you were one of those who who opened doors, not only for me, but for some other students at that time. But, again, I have to know what were you thinking of having these, young people called in the ministry and you had never met them before come up and hold a revival. Who knows what we were going to say? I don't remember what I had preached. I'm sure it wasn't very good.
James:I can't say it was good or bad. I I don't I don't recall what you preached either.
T.J.:There he goes. See, There was the impact right there.
James:Timmy was I think had gone into the ministry.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. And let's pause here and clarify. So, Jimmy Bird, previous guest on Cumberland Road, is your son, and he was a Bethel student at that time, and he was serving in the youth ministry.
James:Right.
T.J.:Yeah. Okay.
James:I think he had come home, for 2 or 3 days. And he and I were talking, and he says, man, have you all had a revival yet this year? And I said, no. He said, well, when do you think you're gonna have them? When I told him.
James:He said, would you be willing to have some of the ministerial students come up and hold it. I said, that's okay with me. I talked to the station. They said, that's fine. Great.
James:But why did I open it up?
T.J.:Yeah.
James:Let me take go back to my early ministers when I was like you at Bethel College. I had churches that opened their pulpit for me to come in and speak. It was encouraging. It was assurance. It was a way of saying you can do it.
James:And I thought if people look at me and did that, I can certainly do it for somebody else, and that's why. I mean, I would still give young ministers an opportunity to preach if I'm pastoring the church. And, that that revival made a difference in that church.
T.J.:Well, it certainly made a difference to me. It was it was an affirmation to the call at a younger age. It was an opportunity that was afforded to me and to others, and to other Bethel students called into ministry. And it was timely, at least for me, and I think for the others at that, that came to Bethel. And so I appreciate that.
T.J.:I really, really do. It's meaningful to me, and it was very impactful at that time. And I think you and I, we've talked about that a little bit before, but really not in this depth. And I just, I just the older I get, I'm just wondering what in the world were you thinking? Sight unseen.
T.J.:We also live in a different time too as well, but, I do appreciate that. I really do. It helped set me on on it kept me on the same path, but that affirmation was important at that time in my life. I like asking guests, and, again, this is kind of a faith journey conversation. I think it's important for us to talk about where God has reached us in the past, but also where we are experiencing God in the present moment, in the today, in the now.
T.J.:For those who are seeking meaning and substance and a relationship with God in their lives right now, They they wanna hear from us who are disciples of Christ, where we see God working in the world, and where we're feeling God in in the world. So this is a long question, but let me shorten it up for you, James, is where are you seeing God's presence in your life today?
James:In most everything I do, Let me go back to when I was. I served some churches at that time, and, I told you about the ulcer that started hemorrhaging with me. Mhmm. I wound up in a hospital in Jackson, Tennessee. I had 3 units of blood.
James:Mhmm. And my doctor came in after I've been there 3 days or so. And I started to walk out. He turned, got to the door and turned around, looked at me, and he said, I wanna tell you something. I wouldn't have given that nickel for your life the night you came in here.
James:He walked out. I was laying there in a bed. I said, lord, you've called me. If you've got me that's something that you want me to do. I won't trust you enough.
James:Give me the ability to walk out of here, and I'll do it. 3 days later, I walked out of the hospital. That was God working. That was God working. I, I've seen it in other times, where God was how to more to word it.
James:He where he used me to reach a person. I was doing a revival, and always gave an invitation. And one night, this man responded, accepting Jesus Christ as his lord and savior. But I noticed that people were quite different, you know, and I didn't know what was going on. And after it was over, one of the members came up to me and said, I wanna tell you something.
James:We have been praying for that man for years, and he's never made that step. You got to and I thought, no. I didn't get to it. God damn. But, so I had God doing something in my life.
James:There have been difficult times in my ministry, but every time, God was there to make me out of it. Mhmm. He's still doing it today.
T.J.:In what ways do you see God working in your life now? You you've been married for 53 years. You've got children. You've got grandchildren. You're still in ministry.
T.J.:How is God using you now?
James:I thought about this. There have been times when I felt like my age, I should, what people say the plastic preacher can't do is retire. I thought about it. And, every time I got serious with it, something happened that got thrown back into it. Mhmm.
James:There've been times that that god is made to in his way, for his purpose, in ways I didn't even think about being available to me.
T.J.:Beyond your imagination.
James:Absolutely. Absolutely. There was one time that, in my ministry, we had a the church had a, softball team, and we had a revival going on. And our team was out in the field. Our opponent, one of their players came up and hit a fly ball well between the center and left field.
James:So they're not going for it. Neither one called for it. And all of a sudden, they hit and let it down. And, one lay there because he got, rent knocked out of him. And, mom got to make a story short.
James:He wound up in the hospital on Sunday morning having an emergency surgery on his kneecap that was crushed. Then when he got out of the hospital, I was gonna go by to see him. And something told me, he said, go by and get his cousin. So I did, and we started out. His cousin looked at me and said, where are you going?
James:I told him. He said, well, why are you going this way? I said, I can I'll get there, which I could go down a little bit and turn off the road and wanted to take the hill, but I didn't turn there. I kept going. His cousin looked over at me and said, where are you going?
James:I said, I don't know. God knows where he's going to take me. I don't know. I wound up with that young man's care and sitting there, all came to his mother sitting there behind me. And she asked me a question about the fact.
James:And then she told me that and then another. This young man's father sitting over on the cast, look across that, and he says, brother Bird, I'm not a crook. His mother kept asking me questions. Then little bitty says, brother Bird, I'm not a Christian. She kept ask, asking questions.
James:Then he raised his voice. She kinda pushed up, and he says, brother Byrd, I'm not a Christian. And I told god, what do you have to do to help me show me what you want? I found myself almost on my knees at night, looking a man in face to face, Sharing the gospel with him, the plan of salvation. And that man said, do do I have to be in the church to get saved?
James:I said, oh, sir. You can do it right here, right now. And, what happened then? He didn't make that move at that time. And I left the first time in my ministry and the only time in my ministry that I can ever recall visiting anybody that I stayed past 9 o'clock in their home.
James:That night, the minute it's past 12 o'clock midnight, I walked out of his home. The next day, his son called me. He said, Brookbert, I wanna thank you. I said, thank you for what? Because in the hospital, I did get by the seat for a few days before you got got home, and I still hadn't been by to see you.
James:He said, you went by to see my daddy, did you? I see. Yeah. He's the one thing you caught up. He said, my daddy drove over here to my house.
James:And I heard a truck pull up and said I heard the truck door slam. And I walked to the door, and there was my daddy get out of his truck and coming up on my porch. I said he came in there and sat down. He said, I want thank you. Yeah.
James:No. He said, I like brother Byrd. He said, no. That's not right. I love him.
James:His son told me he sat there from approximately 12:30 until 2 or 3. I didn't know what time. Sharing with him what had happened in his home. I still believe that somewhere that man made his professional life. 2 weeks later, he and 2 of his sons are down someplace in Kentucky, Ford willing, trucks.
James:And I was in big high heels, steep hill, and his father said, let's go. Sun's back down. His daddy drove up there top of that hill, got out of his truck, and fell dead.
T.J.:Wow.
James:I I still say that that man made his profession of faith because he asked me what he had to do. I told him he had to confess his sin. He had to seek Jesus Christ to come into his life. Just believe it with all my heart, my and my soul today that he made that profession for me. And I've all wondered, Lord, what would it have happened if I had not listened to you and done what you wanted me to do to be where you wanted to be at the time?
James:Just none of those things.
T.J.:What advice do you have, not just for ministers, but Christians in general, to be open to the workings of the holy spirit, to be able to to listen and seek out those opportunities to be able to share the good news in the way that you did in that person's home? Because you could have just drove on by.
James:Well, first of all, I would say, listen. Well, how am I going to listen? You listen by turning down everything around you Mhmm. And devoting on God. When you listen, be willing to respond.
T.J.:And listening listening to God speak to you, not just listen to an individual, but listen for God to speak to to to us as the individual.
James:Right. Right. Uh-huh. And I can I can save that from experience because I wrote you I had
T.J.:Hard experience?
James:I, I felt God working in my life, but I did not know what's going on. I did not know what it was, and I I probably wasn't listening very closely until he put me into that place where there was no turning away. And he said, well, I want you to do this. Mhmm. Now I I know.
James:Let's be willing to let God speak, and be willing to go where he lives. If you, if you want to go this he wants you to go to left, you better go to left.
T.J.:What advice would you have if you could gather up a bunch of people who were thinking about answering the call to the ministry, the word, and sacraments, and for those who have already accepted the call and they're just beginning their process towards ordination, we'll gather all of them up in one setting. What advice would you share with them from your wisdom and your hard experience of ministry?
James:I probably would ask them the same question that the late doctor EK Reagan asked me when I came for Presbyterian to be received as a candidate.
T.J.:Alright. What was that?
James:He looked at me and he said, James, is there anything that you can do other than go into the ministry? Oh. That that hit hard. That hit hard.
T.J.:Wow. That's a good question.
James:There there were some things I could do, but I couldn't do them completely. I couldn't do them in any way because God had his hand in my life direct me to what I'm doing today. Mhmm. Has it been easy? Not always.
James:No. But but they thought anything, it's gonna be easy in life.
T.J.:Right.
James:So, you know, I I think I would probably want to say to any of them, weigh the pros and cons. And if you can't get the pros to outweigh the cons, you probably do not want to go into the ministry. Mhmm. Now that might be judgment. I I don't mean it that way.
James:But if there's something in ministry that will prevent somebody from doing their past, they don't need to be there. I I had a problem when I was younger. I was very timid. It scared the daylights out of me to get up the phone of a a class of 15 students to give a book report. It scared me to death to get up in front of a group of people no matter how small to do anything.
James:But god called me, and I told him then, Lord, if you truly want me as a minister, you will have to take away all of my abilities and give me the strength to form a job that you have waiting for. And I I would would I turn back? No. I would not.
T.J.:Yeah. I'd say that's a prayer that we probably need to say quite often, quite regularly. You've been a part of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church all your life. What's your favorite part of this church family? What makes you the most proud, the most unashamed of our denomination?
James:But sometime back, there was a close knit unity. I was not this person. People in the denomination knew me. I knew the people or denomination. Whether, you know, one that's more on staff there or at CP headquarters, whether it be somebody out there in the field.
James:I knew, that we were we were family close knit, and, we always had concern for one another. Harold Davis was another person, Like, the difference in my time. I had a I had some back surgery or something within the hospital. Harold found out about it. I got the sweetest, passionate note from him.
James:Said, James, I don't know what's going on with you. But I heard I I saw in the news alert, you were in the hospital. I want you to know I'm praying for you.
T.J.:Wow.
James:There was not a denomination before we had to do that. It wasn't her responsibility if they had a job. But he he took time out to be with me, and that that has meant more to me than lots of other things that happened. So I'd like to I'd like to see the camaraderie again. You know, I'm not I'm not saying it's not there.
James:It's I don't get to I'm getting a few years on me. And, there are new ministers coming on all the time. Yeah. I go to General Assembly now. They're new faces.
James:I don't know who they are. I don't know what they're doing. I don't know. And whether they ministers or lay person or whatever. So that's earlier, though.
James:It was it was hot. And, it it was something mean to put me. I have been very pleased to be a part of Compuenters Care in Charge.
T.J.:James, I appreciate the influence in a good way that you have been in my ministry, directly and indirectly. You've been an example to me in terms of of, patience and humility. And, I've always admired those two skills and gifts, because I need more of both. So I enjoy seeing those and inspired when I see them in others. I appreciate you sharing your faith journey.
T.J.:I have heard bits and pieces of it, but I've never been able to sit down with you and hear it all together even when my questions are not linear in terms of a timeline. You
James:you hung in
T.J.:there with me, and I appreciate it.
James:My it's my pleasure. Appreciate the opportunity to do this.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to The Cumberland Road. To hear more faith journeys like James, subscribe and follow on Apple Podcast and Spotify. If you like Cumberland Road, please share with others. James mentioned Hubert Morrow as someone who has shaped his faith, So it'd be fitting to close this episode from Morrow's book, The Covenant of Grace. Christian freedom, the defining characteristic of the Christian lifestyle, is radical in nature and very different from ordinary human freedom. Ordinary human freedom can be defined as freedom of choice, the freedom of the will. By contrast, Christian freedom is the freedom to love, The freedom to love God and persons. The freedom to love is the freedom to give oneself to the service of God and persons.
