Jen Newell - God Nudging Me From My Comfort Zones
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God, this is the Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. Today, Jen Newell joins me on Cumberland Road. Jen is a graduate of UT Chattanooga with a degree in economics and a minor in political science and music. Today, you're going to find her serving the first Cumberland Church in Cleveland, Tennessee, where she has been for fourteen years. She started as a part time children and family director, then moved on to an associate pastor once she was ordained, and now she's a senior minister and has been serving there since 2013. She has served on the Memphis Theological Seminary Board as vice moderator and moderator, and Jen is a past and current writer for the adult encounter curriculum of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
T. J.:Jen, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. How are you?
Jen:I'm good. Thank you for having me. An honor.
T. J.:Well, I wanted to start our conversation with and I'll there's probably a lot of people that don't know this. This is the only church that I know of that actually has jail cells on its campus, on its property. Why does the Cleveland Church have jail cells? There's one there was a meeting there at at your church one time. I can't remember what the meeting was for, and you were gracious enough to be the host and show around.
T. J.:There was one cell that you couldn't even lay down in. It was like you had to stand.
Jen:Well, my question is why don't all churches have jail cells? So no. We are, I love to say we're the urban church in Tennessee, Georgia Presbytery. We're right in the heart of Downtown Cleveland. And granted, it's a tiny urban area, but we're kind of landlocked here.
Jen:So in order to expand, we bought the parking lot behind us. And right now we're building a big new fellowship on hall on that. And then we bought the building next to us. That was really the only way we could expand. So here we are in a 1930s jail, there's actually jail cells right below where I'm sitting right now.
Jen:I have not ever written a sermon down there. I'm not Paul. I'm not quite that brave. It's pretty creepy. But, yeah, it's it's an adventure.
T. J.:Well, you have to be one of the few churches in the world that actually has jail cells on the property.
Jen:I feel pretty special. So
T. J.:Well, Jen, you have quite an interesting looking at your bio, you have quite an interesting path. It looks like a faith journey within the CP Church, but I'd like to start even earlier than that. Can you recall your earliest encounter with God?
Jen:Like everybody that I've listened to that you have talked to, I think I was raised in a Christian home. I was raised in a, not just in a Christian home, but in a community that was very culturally Christian. I couldn't imagine anybody who looked even remotely like me not believing in Jesus or not knowing about Jesus. And I can't remember not knowing. But when I think back, my first real strong memory is of coming home from church one Sunday night, we went to church all the time, unless it was absolutely too snowy to get out of the driveway or, and this is true, there was a bridge between our house and the churches, sometimes a flood.
Jen:So literally, unless the creek didn't rise, we were at church. And coming home one Sunday night, I don't remember the sermon. I was five or six. But it was one of those sort of hellfire and brimstone come to Jesus moment sermons. And I remember the feeling of being absolutely terrified because the preacher had said, you might die tonight and where would you be?
Jen:And I wasn't sure. So I remember kneeling down in the little foot well of the car, which tells you how old I am because we didn't have to wear seat belts. Was only if you got in trouble. And praying silently because I'm a good Presbyterian and asking God to please, please, please keep me out of hell. And instantly I remember worrying about it.
Jen:Like this is the story of my life. Immediately I was like, wonder if he heard me. I mean, we're going really fast. I am in a car, I am very small. And I started thinking of all these reasons why maybe that was ineffective.
Jen:And that I would love to tell you I've completely outgrown that and I've left all that behind. But that's probably more true of my life of faith, my journey with God than I would like it to be. I'm more like Jacob wrestling in the middle of the night than anything else. So that's how I started and that's kinda how I am still. I was raised in a church that was very, I think very odd in some ways, very academic, very pious.
Jen:But in my experience also kind of cold. We learned, I mean, an early age I knew the four different Greek words for love, right? But I'm not sure how much love I saw displayed to be honest. I also grew up and I honestly don't know if this is what they intended me to get out of church, but what I got from it was that God could do whatever was in the Bible and everything else was the devil. And so God was limited and the devil was limitless, which is a kind of scary world to be in.
Jen:That all fell apart when I went to college, just crumbled, completely lost it. And I did everything I could to leave that behind. It seemed to me to be a really odd way to move through life in a really disingenuous way as well. And so I tried to let it go. So I studied economics and political theory because I just wanted to know why people do what they do.
Jen:I was curious, why do any of us do things, especially things we say we don't love? Why would you do that? And instead of psychology, I chose economics and poured myself into that and learned what I could learn and fell in love with graphs and charts, but was a very restless scholar. I really lacked focus. I never liked questions, but I never seemed to get the answers I wanted.
Jen:I was truly restless in the core of me. After we got married, after school, I was out of school, we went to Quaker meeting for awhile, my husband and I, and I'm the worst Quaker. I need a lot more words. I tried, but I was just lousy at silence. So that didn't quite work.
Jen:And then we grew up a little more and bought our first house And our first neighbor was a deacon at the Chattanooga First Cumberland Church. And he was older. He and I would stand outside and watch his granddaughter and my daughter play. And every once in a while, this man, Ed Faulkner would say, well, I reckon you ought to come to my church sometime. And that's all he'd say.
Jen:And then a couple months later, he'd say it again. And finally, one day I said, all right Ed, I reckon I ought to. And I went for the shallowest possible reason. It was near Christmas. And I was like, I miss singing Christmas songs.
Jen:We should go to church, right? That's it. I had no greater aspiration and was blown away. Absolutely blown away. Not just by the music, which was everything I hoped for and more that church has incredible music or the architecture was amazing.
Jen:This idea that I could come to faith as an adult with a grownup mind, that I could think deeply about familiar stories that I could reexamine the narrative I was sure I already knew really intrigued me, really got my attention. Not long after that, Duane and Beth Cole came as pastors there and they were perfect. I don't know if, I think they were just perfect for me. So I'm glad that God called them there for me. Really gracious and gentle in their leadership, but very clear about what they were doing to help us really a whole cohort of people my age kind of grow up and rethink what it means to be people of faith.
Jen:And that really set me, I don't know, it set me on a whole new path. I kind of fell in love with something that I had tried to get to let go of, you know, I was like this Jesus, this is something else, you know, and reread scripture. I remember one night I got really mad and I told Duane Cole the next day. I said, I read the whole New Testament. I was so angry.
Jen:He just looked at me. You know?
T. J.:So Was that punishment for him or for you? That's a lot of reading.
Jen:I was just mad. I was mad about things weren't right. They weren't just, and I was just gonna find ways to defend my feelings about things. I read the whole dad gum thing. So this is how nerds rebel.
T. J.:You find what you were looking for?
Jen:Well, I kinda got my rear end kicked by it, so it happens. But that was a great reintroduction to faith. And I have a lot of friends who aren't religious, who aren't Christian, who are skeptical. And they'll ask me why do you go to church first? And then why do you do what you do?
Jen:And really, think I tried not to, but I couldn't, I tried to say no and I can't. I just can't. I think the real pivotal day for me that was, I had a really bad day at work. I was manager at McKay Books and I had to fire somebody, which was not all that unusual. But this one, no offense, but it happens.
Jen:And this particular situation was real sticky and real difficult. And I knew it was gonna upset other people. But as a person who's in management, you really can't say a lot about what's going on. It's not your story to tell. It was very difficult.
Jen:My eyes started to twitch, which was my sign I needed to go home or step away a minute. So I told the people in the office, I'm gonna take half a day. I'm just gonna get my act together. And I went home and my first thought for the first time in my adult life, my first thought when I encountered a problem was to go home and pray. I'd never had that as my first reaction ever.
Jen:So I go home, the kids aren't there. My husband's not there. It's quiet, sit down at the table. I know how to pray. I grew up in church.
Jen:My parents read through the whole Bible with us after dinner a little bit at a time as we were growing up. We prayed together. I got there to that kitchen table and could not say a word. No words. I did not know what to pray for.
Jen:I did not know why I was praying. I did not know what I expected. And that was the moment where I felt like I had to just let go and say, all right, I'm coming to you God with nothing. And I think of all the moments that I've had, that's the one that really changed me. I had already been feeling a call to ministry, which I thought was the stupidest idea God had ever had.
Jen:And I told God not long after that, I said, I'll do anything else. Anything you say, but not this, this is a terrible idea. So I taught Sunday school and I did VBS and I played music in church. I was a wedding facilitator. I did the altar guild.
Jen:I was a deacon. I was an elder. I would sweep, would clean up anything you want, but not that. And I did that for five years. Five years of saying no, God.
Jen:And God would say, but you know, and I would say no. And like for three of those years I didn't even say it out loud. I could not say those words out loud because it seemed arrogant and presumptuous and insane. And all of my conceptions of what a minister was were not me. I just, I didn't fit that mold as I understood that role.
Jen:And I remember finally I just said, all right, God, I'm tired. Okay, whatever, I'll do this. And then I had to tell my husband and he was surprised but very supportive. So it really, it took me a long time to get there, but I think it was a long time well spent. It was my time in the wilderness.
Jen:Not that I don't end up back there, but it was quite a beginning.
T. J.:So on paper, it looks almost pretty clear here is here's an individual who loves God and is very active in the church, shows leadership skills, becomes a deacon, and then an elder, and takes on more and takes on more. I wonder if you were the only one who didn't see it. And no. Everyone was just so kind and patient and just at Chattanooga and just kinda let you grow into it.
Jen:I think there was some of that. I remember one time Andy McClung, Andy and Tiffany were there as our associates and Andy preached this sermon. And the whole time I was like, Oh, he's talking to me. It's me, I'm supposed to respond. And this is what I did.
Jen:I sat in the front, Chattanooga church is huge, right? Seats like 1,100 people. And we always sat like the third row back. So here I am at the very front and every bit of me is saying, stand and walk up front. Stand up there and face your God.
Jen:And I during the last hymn, knelt down behind the pew and sobbed as if nobody would notice. I thought I could hide from Andy. I thought I could hide from God. I thought I could hide from everyone else who saw me go down when they stood up. So, yeah, I played a little game.
T. J.:So what happened? You tell your husband Chuck about this calling, then what?
Jen:Well, so then I decided I should, maybe I should go to seminary, right? So I start thinking this through. And I'm Heming and Han. And the first time I'm supposed to be with our committee on ministry for the Presbytery. I had my letter from the session.
Jen:They all endorsed it. They're all like, yeah, it's about time. Like you said, the first time I said to me, it's 09/11/2001. And I am eight months pregnant. And the world as I knew it seemed to have just imploded.
Jen:And so I go to this committee and I sit down and I just burst out in tears and I say, I don't know why I'm here. I don't know why you're here. And I got up and I left. I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it.
Jen:But prior to that, when I had decided, when I first decided I would get serious about this, I quit my job at McKay's. And I'd been at McKay's longer than we had been married. And I was like, I don't know if our what? If our marriage is like predicated on me having a McKay discount? You know, like, what's gonna happen here?
T. J.:And and for for our listeners, McKay's is a used book and music and movie emporium warehouse and kind of scattered throughout the South. And there's three of them in Tennessee. One of them is in Chattanooga.
Jen:Yeah, sorry about that. So I quit my job and I was also making twice what my husband was making. So two thirds of our household income gone. So I work out my notice. The last week of my notice, the last week, I find out I'm pregnant.
Jen:And I was like, what sort of God is this? I'm stepping out in faith and I'm walking away from this job that I love and I'm good at and it's fulfilling and rewarding in all these ways. And I say, I'm gonna get ready and go to seminary and then boom, how about have a baby? And I know people do both at the same time, but I just could not fathom how I could do all this at once. So I ended up going to the Pause Program, which I didn't want to do.
Jen:It wasn't the route I wanted to take. I wanted to go to school and be the person I am at school, which is a very competitive student. I want to be the winner of school, right? As I was used to being. And God kept saying, just do this pause thing.
Jen:And I kept saying no. And one day I just said, I was driving down the road. I knew exactly where I was in front of the crystal. And I said, okay, God, I'm going. And I felt instant peace instantly, completely and totally at peace.
Jen:So I went to pause, cried, cried. Every time I went, I cried. I would get frustrated. I would feel challenged in ways I wasn't ready to be challenged. I was ready for an academic challenge and there wasn't always as much of that as I wanted, but there were plenty of challenges there.
Jen:God was there working in ways that I had not been able to recognize that were very different than what was happening in my life, but absolutely just as valid. And it was the exact right path for me because there was no game to play. There was nothing to win. I could not be valedictorian of pause. I had to learn for the sake of learning And I had to do with an eye toward what came next.
Jen:And I had to submit to a plan that I didn't always entirely understand. And it was exactly right for me. I can't tell you how shocking that was to me to discover that.
T. J.:Did you know that then in the process as a student or did it take a little time after graduation?
Jen:Oh, I knew after that first summer, I was like, God, I'm gonna get stretched here in ways I hadn't intended to get stretched. There really was a diversity. I always look for the diversity in any group I'm in. Appreciate the differences. And you don't have to look very hard in any room full of Cumberland Presbyterians to find great differences.
Jen:And it was good for me to be among people who had a very different path than I did into ministry, a different background than mine. Also like I fell in love with Doctor. Bill Restonhaven and I would come home from pause and my kids who were little at the time, they're like, mom, you smell like a hobo. And I was like, A, I don't know what a hobo smells like, but B that's Bill Restonhaven's pipe. Every moment that I could spend with him, spent with him.
Jen:He was very good for me. He was very pastoral. He was very blunt. I remember at one point he looked at me, we're out on the swing in front of those old dorms. And he said, You talk as if there's only one right path you can take every moment of your life.
Jen:And if you make a mistake that God will leave you. Did you know that? And I just looked at him, I didn't know that, but he was right. Very freeing, very challenging. So I spent a lot of time with that man.
Jen:I even watched baseball and I don't like baseball but I even watched baseball with him. But it was good, it's time well spent.
T. J.:Wow. Well, how did you end up at Cleveland Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
Jen:Cliff Hudson, you know Cliff. Cliff and I are about as different as two people can be in a lot of ways. And he called and said, we needed someone to do children's ministry. And I thought of you. And he had been an associate at the Chattanooga church.
Jen:And my first response was, are you sure? Do you know what a pain in the rear end I am to you? And he said, yep, I know. So I came up here and they met with people up here, loved this congregation. They offered me a part time position and I worked up here doing children's ministry.
Jen:But Cliff was very good about giving me opportunity to do little bits of all sorts of ministry. And he also knew that as someone who loves things to be well planned in advance, that I needed to learn to fly by the seat of my pants a little bit. So sometimes he would give me things at the last minute, which would make me crazy, but it was really good for me, know, because that's life, you know. Very generous, he was so generous. And he and I were actually, I think a really good team because we came at situations from different perspectives and we had different sets of skills and together I thought it was really good.
Jen:I learned an awful lot working with him and he was very generous and gracious. And when he left to take the OUO position, the session here asked if I was interested in this position. And I said, you need to go through a search before I can say yes. Because I know even from hiring cashiers at the bookstore that the closest warm body is not always the right body. And that was a pretty anxious agonizing period for me because I was here and not sure about where I was headed.
Jen:And they said that they did want me to do this job and that amazes me every day. So I am blessed.
T. J.:When did you start at Cleveland? Were you a program of alternate study student?
Jen:I was a student, yep.
T. J.:Okay.
Jen:I was so, and I get confused about time. It all runs together now, but I still had a couple, a summer or two left ago, I think. But they were all so encouraging and so supportive. And so, man, they put up with my first sermons and my first everythings poor things. Sounds
T. J.:like your your journey of faith has always been it has its bends and curves, but it's always leading up to something, this next next adventure, this next space for ministry. I wanted to ask you, and I ask other guests this as well. With those curves and those unknowns and those surprises, what is it about God that just keeps you coming back and identifying with the Christian faith?
Jen:I think Christianity gives me a framework for finding meaning in everything, in the ordinary stuff of life, in the extraordinary stuff of life, in joy, in suffering, in uncertainty. For some reason, and I mean, I can't defend it. I'm not an apologetics person. I can't argue my way into this. But for some reason, what I find in Christ in that sacrificial love, in that gentleness toward outsiders, in that sort of broad community that he was creating here on earth in his time on earth is so much hope and so much direction.
Jen:I can't imagine going through life without that story grounding me, but also inspiring me. God pushes me out of my comfort zone all the time. Sometimes I kick and scream, but I never don't trust God's goodness. And I never don't trust that the power that God uses to make changes in the world and in me is a loving power. It's not a heavy hand and a sharp tongue.
Jen:This is love. This is nurturing love. And I love it. I love that way of being in the world.
T. J.:We spent a little bit of time talking about the past and how God has moved you into ministry and the shakes and the joys that come with that. Where do you see God working in your life today?
Jen:Well, like everybody, this last year has forced me out of all of my comfortable places. All of my comfortable habits, all of the things that I count on to relieve stress, to worship together, to offer pastoral care, all gone. And for me, that's where God does his best work because that's when God has my attention. And so I think a deeper appreciation for community in all its forms, whatever form that has to take. I've seen within our downtown community, I'm so, I love being here.
Jen:I love, love being here. I love being a part of this city a part of this city on behalf of this church too. And when the pandemic started, right after it started, we had a tornado here. And we decided to have a meeting of downtown, some social service agencies, some nonprofits, a couple churches who are active in helping people in need. We got together and met.
Jen:And I have seen collaboration in the past year like I've never seen it before. And I've served on the housing coalition and I've served on boards and try to be really active in helping our neighbors around here. But the collaboration, the willingness to share, the destruction of silos and all of our walls for the sake of helping has been amazing and so God honoring. And to be with a group of people who can name that when they see it, has done me a world of good. So that's been great.
Jen:I think reevaluating what success looks like, what the future might hold, all of that is a constant challenge. We haven't met together all that often in the past year. We're kind of on again, off again as our local cases rise and fall. Trying to maintain community and value relationships when you're not even in the same room is tough. But I see God at work in every encounter in a way I think I might've taken for granted before.
T. J.:What message would you have for others in leadership of self care in a time like this?
Jen:The worst one to ask.
T. J.:No, the best one to ask.
Jen:Self care is really important. You should definitely do that. It's I know that I cannot be loving toward my neighbors and I cannot pour myself into pastoral ministry if I am not taking care of myself as well. It's easier said than done but I am mindful of that. And it starts with the basics.
Jen:Are you eating and sleeping? And if not, why not? I see a counselor. I talk with a counselor twice a month, a Christian counselor who helps me process not only the difficulties of pastoral work but the good stuff too. I am by nature focused on the problems and the potential problems.
Jen:I'm very gifted at worrying. It's one of my super strengths. But she helps me identify the good and to see where God is at work in ways that are life giving and affirming that I might be quick to dismiss for myself. So that's been really good in grounding for me. I try to walk a lot because we're downtown.
Jen:I can walk and do lots and lots of my work. And if I'm gonna be on the phone for a while making calls, checking on people, I'll walk. I may walk two, three miles just talking to people. And that walking is very clearing and cleansing sometimes. I just did a lot of walking.
Jen:So my husband reminds me all the time that she just didn't have an office.
T. J.:He's keeping in check.
Jen:Yeah. Yeah. So.
T. J.:You know, I I asked the question, where do we see god working in in your life today or in in the world today? You know, there there's a reason for that. Somebody asked me one time, why do why do you ask questions like that? It's kind of forward. Well, it's questions really I ask myself every day, Kind of that self reflection in terms of today was a good day.
T. J.:What made it good? And so recalling and recounting the things that happened in the course of the day and going, oh, okay. I attribute this. This is god's work because I didn't have anything to do with it or and and where I got to be a part of this, and it was wonderful, and it was great. That helps me stay focused but also kinda look at the good things in the world.
T. J.:It's it's easy to find the bad things and point at them and go, oh, that's bad or ugly or different or or, you know, whatever label we wanna give it. Sometimes you have to look for the goodness. But if you get into that practice, it's in front of you the whole time. You just have to name it.
Jen:Yeah. I think one of the things that's helped me is my kids got me a camera a couple of years ago. And I take a lot of pictures now and that forces me to slow down and to focus. And I've always just delighted in little things. I just think God's world is so full of tiny little miracles.
Jen:I can watch a bird or a flower moving in the wind or a stream over rocks or something and just be absolutely delighted with the creator. And I think that has helped me. Once you start to feel that gratitude at that level for just the world God created, then it becomes easier for me to extend that on to the more complicated human relationships and the rest of it for sure.
T. J.:Well, we've talked a great deal about our faith and your journey. Let's shift the conversation a little bit. What what ideas, what aspirations, what hopes do you have for the church that we are a part of and that we serve?
Jen:I think we have to be it's a balance. Like, how do you be both relevant to your time but not caught up in what's happening around you to the point where you're no different than the rest of the world, right? I went to a Greek Orthodox church. Like the Eastern Orthodox liturgy is fascinating to me and I'm a big John Christosom fan. So anyway, I went to that church once when I was one week when I was off and the priest there said, I get stuff about church growth all the time in the mail.
Jen:And he said, but my job is not to become more like the world to grow the church. My job is to model for you on Sunday mornings, a taste of God's kingdom. So when you get to heaven, you're not surprised. That was hilarious. But I've been thinking a lot about that and how powerful it is to model authentic community at a time like this.
Jen:In a world that is always taking sides and it is so divided to be a community that is diverse in whatever way that you can be in your location or in our location, economically diverse, politically, culturally, racially, ethnically, whatever. To find a way to do that well, for God's glory, not for any other reason is a powerful message. I think a really great gateway into what Christ is about. It's hard though. I mean, if community weren't hard, Paul wouldn't have written half of what he wrote, right?
Jen:We have like one letter from Paul. But it's hard. It's hard to figure out how to live together and how to treat one another. And I feel like churches are opportunity to practice those skills. How do I walk through a difficult time with my brother who I need to forgive?
Jen:Well, we need to learn to do that at church. How do I name my sadness and express it but not get stuck there? We need to do that at church. We need to be a place that's safe for the full range of our lives to come together and to find grace and support. And that sort of when iron sharpens iron pushback that we need.
Jen:And I just think if we could be that community and work together joyfully and worship together joyfully, how winsome is that? How lovely? I mean, in every the best possible, a cheesy sense of the word, but truly lovely. That would be in the world. So that would be whatever it takes to be authentic community.
Jen:I think we need to have the guts to be that.
T. J.:I think it would be different every time we gathered as a community because we are different every time we gather as a community.
Jen:Absolutely. That's absolutely right. So
T. J.:Jen, that that's deep thinking. I'll have to I like it. I'll have to chew on that for a little while.
Jen:You're welcome.
T. J.:Well, how can we continue to follow you on your faith journey?
Jen:Well, I'm on Facebook and our church is on Facebook. And one day we'll learn how to live stream. We have really bad internet service here. We're working on that. We have a website that hopefully I will update before you post this.
Jen:Okay. But those are those are some ways that you can keep up with what's going on with us. Okay.
T. J.:And you are currently writing or have written for the encounter?
Jen:I have, and I'm currently behind writing.
T. J.:Okay. Alright.
Jen:Talking to you when I should be working on that lesson.
T. J.:So we can look for your writing what later this year?
Jen:Oh, no. It'll be what I'm writing is for next spring.
T. J.:Spring twenty Yeah. '22.
Jen:I'm doing Lent Easter stuff for next year.
T. J.:Okay. Alright. Well, as it gets closer, we'll have to attach this podcast to the to the writings.
Jen:We'll see if I finish. Chris isn't gonna listen, right?
T. J.:He most definitely will.
Jen:Great.
T. J.:Jen, thank you for your time and for sharing, your deep your deep thoughts and and your faith journey. I appreciate it. I appreciate you.
Jen:Oh, thank you for having me. It's just fun.
T. J.:Thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with us on our next journey down Cumberland Road.
