Jessica Neas - Giving Ourselves Grace
You are listening to The Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. The following is a faith conversation with Jessica Neas, a newly ordained elder and a new mother, and she pulls me into her life sphere with an amazing, challenging, and transformative journey over the last several months. I am inspired by Jessica's fortitude, her wit, and openness. She speaks of her faith, her life, and motherhood with honesty and strength. I hope her journey encourages you as well. So now, my friend, enjoy this faith conversation with Jessica Neas.
T.J.:Jessica, you and your family have a recent happening, a joyous happening in addition to your family. So you have a new baby. So tell me more about Iris and what it's like to be a new mom.
Jessica:Oh, boy. Well, it's definitely exciting. It's something we've waited a long time for. She's different every single day. I think I have her figured out and then she doesn't like that. And I'm like, well, you locked it yesterday. You locked it 5 minutes ago. Why do you not like it noon? And, so that's that's something I'm adapting to. I'm one that locks my sleep.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Jessica:So the first, you know, month and a half, I was just like, oh my lord. How am I gonna do this? Get me through this. What in the world? So now, luckily, she just wakes up once, and my husband gets up with her.
T.J.:Wow. Okay.
Jessica:So I get to sleep because I'm a better person. I do not do well without sleep. But, no, she's everybody is so in love with her. She, she's the very first grandchild on my husband's side, you know, for his parents. He's the only child.
Jessica:And, so they're obviously, like, super in love with her. Just what is she doing? Send me pictures. They just love her. And, my dad, he has 8.
Jessica:So it's which granted he still loves her to pieces, you know, but he loves them all. But, yeah, it's it's definitely a lot different on the Corbin's side versus my side.
T.J.:Well, Iris is the newest grand one grandchild for, your dad and your mom. So the newest one, you know, still has that new smell. So that makes that makes her the favorite.
Jessica:My stepsister, she, I guess they're about couple months apart. She actually had twin girls right after me. Oh. So we added 3 new girls just like boom within, like, a couple months of my mother.
T.J.:Oh my goodness. So what what is a family meal gonna be like when you have a big get together?
Jessica:We'll probably just go to the church. I don't think anybody has a house big enough for all. You know?
T.J.:Okay. So Iris has she'll have playmates in competition at least in terms of the newest grandchildren in the family.
Jessica:Yeah. That's not wrong.
T.J.:So what has Iris taught you about yourself, about being a mom, about being a parent?
Jessica:That you may say you're not gonna do something, but you're absolutely gonna do it. You may say they're not gonna watch Cocomelon, but they're gonna watch Cocomelon even at 4 months old.
T.J.:You're so wise already. She's training you.
Jessica:I'm not gonna do that with my kids. Oh, yeah. You are. Yeah. You are.
T.J.:Jessica, how does your faith, how does that speak to you, just being being a new parent, adding a new member to your family, having your routine turned upside down, being shaped all over again?
Jessica:Well, it's definitely something I'm thankful for, you know, considering we waited so long to have have her. I just I find myself just like, oh my gosh. I'm so thankful to get to be our mom. I get emotional mistaken about it. But we're late to church a lot.
Jessica:I found that. So that's a little different. You know, sometimes we're just there for the the message. No singing, no nothing. 15, 20 minutes late rolling in.
Jessica:Whatever. So that's new for our routine. We normally work 10 minutes early at least, and then we're, you know, 20 minutes late.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Jessica:It's just it'll it'll test you being a new parent for sure. You know, you don't think you can do it certain things and somehow you just do it. I don't know. You just don't have a choice. You have to keep her alive.
Jessica:You know? Can't kill her or nothing.
T.J.:Right.
Jessica:You gotta feed her. You can't just not.
T.J.:Is there any particular scripture or your relationship with God that really helps you get through those moments that are stressful, that are trying, that just kinda stretch you. I know I'll give you a chance to think about it by providing some commentary. I know, with with us, when we were new parents, There was that lack of sleep, but then there was like a simple trip to the store required so much planning and packing. There isn't just grab the keys and get into the vehicle. There's so much more to it than that.
T.J.:So in those moments, great and small, what is it about your faith that just keeps you grounded?
Jessica:I just I I pray a lot in my head, I feel like, but I don't even realize I'm doing it. I'm just like, just get me through this. Just get us home. Like, just Lord, just make her stop crying. Just make her stop.
Jessica:Don't let her cry. Just let her sleep. Just just keep her asleep somehow. And, but I'm just like, there's no, you know, late night rides to Taco Bell anymore. There's no let's just hop in the car and go.
T.J.:Right.
Jessica:It's gotten better now. The diaper bag just stays kinda packed, and we just throw a little bit of formula in there and some hot water, and we're good. But before, it was like a whole event. I mean, it was like something at the Olympics. Like, did you get her blanket?
Jessica:Did you get her pass did you have her pass through a clip? Do you have it was a lot.
T.J.:And I
Jessica:was just like, goodness. I don't care if I go anywhere in the world or stay home. I just I definitely I've always tried to pray, probably not the world's greatest at it, but now I find that in my little head, it's just constantly just oh, dear lord. Just if she coughs even if she coughs. Gosh.
T.J.:Yeah.
Jessica:Dear lord, don't let her be sick.
T.J.:Right. And and then the inverse, like, if you or Corbin, your husband coughs, oh, please don't let it wake her, or please don't let us get her sick. So there's that fear as well. Just being a new parent, regardless of how many children you you may have, is just like, but yeah. I I remember, you know, even even how you walk through the house.
T.J.:If the newborn is sleeping, you know, maybe I should take my shoes off on the hardwood floor or
Jessica:It's funny you say that because we live in a home that was built in the early sixties. It's a fixer upper room. Her little room, I've learned, like it's almost like I'm a superhero or something. I jump around in our room because there's certain parts of the floor that doesn't squeak, and you cannot shut the door all the way because it's loud. It's, like, very top fitting and so it, like, squeaks.
Jessica:And, so I'm like, gosh. So I stay over here, I stay over there, and I'll put her down for a nap in hopes that she just doesn't wake up.
T.J.:I know exactly what you're talking about. The house that we're in now, there's certain steps on the staircase. And there's 1 or 2 that, you have to, like, jump over. And then there's some other ones where you have to step on certain corners of the steps so they don't creak just to keep those volumes down. Because the the resting for the child is important, but it's also for the parent parents as well.
T.J.:It's just like, Yeah.
Jessica:Just let me pull this laundry. Let me flip the laundry. Right. I need to wash your bottles because there's nothing clean for you to eat out of. Like.
T.J.:Right. It is challenging, and that's why I asked how your faith speaks to you, because you can get into projects like that. You know, the simple routines and and the chores that need to get done, and sometimes they get interrupted by life. You know? And what you started, you may not be able to finish, whether it's a dishwasher for folding clothes or putting on one shoe and and have to carry the other one, all those different things.
T.J.:It's very jarring. And I was just wondering how your relationship, you know, with Christ can keep us centered, and that's why I wanted us to begin kind of that conversation, the joy of having a child, and the challenges of being a parent, and where faith plays into that.
Jessica:I, I found I'm very hard on myself when it comes to certain things. I feel like this I'm a stay at home mom now. I left my job, you know, I guess a little over a year ago, now, and, so I feel like this house needs to not have a speck of dust because, like, I'm here. And I'm just hard on myself if the laundry's, you know, starting to pop a little bit. Like, I'm just like, oh my goodness.
Jessica:So I've had to give myself a lot of grace, and the only way I've been able to do that is to just ask God to help me because I will drive myself crazy. Like, I'll lay there in bed at night and I'm like, oh my gosh. I need to do this. I need to clean out this closet. I need to do her laundry.
Jessica:You know? This needs to be mopped. The floors hadn't been mopped in a week and a half. Like, it's filthy. I mean, it's really not.
T.J.:Right.
Jessica:And, my husband's really good about telling me it's okay. It's not. Our house isn't dirty. It's fine. He's he's really good about helping me with it even though he's very busy himself.
Jessica:So
T.J.:It's good to have a friend and a helpmate and a spouse to balance those things out because, you know, there's well, somebody might disagree with this. There's no shame of pulling out some clean clothes and putting them all out of the dryer. What rule is there that says it has to be out of a drawer or off of a hanger?
Jessica:I know. And I think it's just me looking past judgment, I guess, of other people or other moms. I feel like they have it all together, and I'm just over here, like, I can't see our our dining room table. Like, what is all this on it? Because that's where we come to when we come in.
Jessica:It's right to that dining table. So anything gets thrown on it. So I just I don't know. I've just learned to give myself a lot of grace,
T.J.:and I
Jessica:would not be able to do that without God. That's for sure.
T.J.:And I think Iris, she will be a good teacher. She'll help you let go of some of those things. There will be some new things coming about, especially when she becomes mobile.
Jessica:I know. I wonder.
T.J.:We've had another exciting, and recent happening for for you and and for your family. The Tennessee Farm Bureau named your farm an achievement award this year for young farmers. So let's talk about that for a minute. What is it and what that means and the excitement that comes with it?
Jessica:I don't think a lot of people know, how broad, I guess, you could say, Farm Bureau is. It's not just, you know, home insurance or whatever, life insurance. It's they really have a community that I didn't know that they had. So the way the process works is my husband, Corbin, he sits on the Farm Bureau Board of Clark County for young farmer, and rancher, that's what the program is called, now. And, he had to fill out a lengthy, lengthy, very detailed application, very personal application about, our farm and, you know, his farm even when he was 18 before we were married.
Jessica:And he sent it in and basically judges select so many. And I feel like I'm not really a 100% sure, but I think that anybody that does an application gets to kinda go, but, you know, there's only x amount that makes certain tiers. So back in July, we went to, the Young Farmer and Rancher Conference, the summer conference. And before that, earlier, it might have been earlier July. Yes.
Jessica:And then I think it was like July 15th we went and, the day came out to the farm earlier, like I was saying, and did a whole video, on our production, our poultry houses, our row crop. They haven't looked at our soybeans. Did a whole video and interview with Corbin, and it was really, really good. And, they showed it, you know, at the conference and everything. That was the first time we had seen it.
Jessica:They made us do all these funny TikTok dances. That was pretty embarrassing. Didn't know that was coming. But, anyway, he made top 10, but then he didn't get our district. So we're district 5.
Jessica:A young woman got it, who does some great stuff with her farm, but, we plan to run again together as a couple in 2023. And it's it's pretty intense, the interview process from what he said. I didn't get to go in that room with him, but I could just tell, like, when he came out, he was not expecting it to be so intense. I don't think, like, it's it's something and there's a lot of things that they do, Fall tours, you go on tour farms and we get together and went to Carver's apple orchard here in Crosby not long ago with our district. And it's it's a good community.
Jessica:It's a good thing to be involved in. I'm definitely proud of him for he didn't even think he was gonna make top ten. I remember sitting there in that big room, and, they got to district 5, and they said his name first. And he was holding her daughter, Iris, and just the look on his face like, woah. Like, oh, my boss.
Jessica:That's my name. And he got you know, goes up there and gets his picture made and then goes and gets his interview time for the next morning. But I'm definitely proud of him. It's an accomplishment. And he's he's grown his family's farm tremendously since he's became an adult.
T.J.:Yeah. And congratulations. And and he did win, an achievement award for, Cobb County.
Jessica:Mhmm. And he is Cobb County's young farmer.
T.J.:Yeah. The years ago. You returned home not empty handed. And and, gosh, being top 10 is that's pretty fantastic as well.
Jessica:Yeah. I'm definitely proud of them. Everybody is.
T.J.:So let's talk a minute for about your farm. You've you've got hay and forage crops. You have chickens, cattle. What else? I mean, this is a full fledged farm, so pretend that, like, I and anybody who's listening, which you don't have to pretend because that's reality.
T.J.:You know, what does your farm look like? What does it what does a typical day consist of farming there, in Cobb County?
Jessica:Well, now that we've had IRS, it's a little bit different. We're we're very blessed to both be 25 and be self employed and be able to spend time with her, her not have to go to day care, stay with a family member all the time. And so if he wakes up and wants to spend a little extra time with her, he doesn't have to hurry up and get out the door every morning, which we're thankful for that. But a typical day generally consists of him now more so. I I would go with him every day before she came along, but, go check on our, our chickens, make sure the computers are running right, that there's good airflow, and we have to walk the dead every day.
Jessica:So, pick up the dead, tally it up, you know, that sort of thing. And then depending on what season it is, the rest of the day is kind of in the wind right now. Harvest has just kicked off. So he's actually out right now doing corn, so they're combining corn. I helped with one of our lease properties a few weeks ago, get it up of corn.
Jessica:And so it's kind of a slow go. Not every field is ready yet, but, there'll be a lot of late nights for him coming up just trying to get it done. We're not a huge farm, but, we're enough to to stay pretty busy.
T.J.:Yeah. You say you're not a huge farm, but we were talking off mic. I was asking you about, I was exposing my ignorance of what a commercial boiler house is. And how many chickens again do you raise per season?
Jessica:If I'm not mistaken, so we get 5 or 6 grow outs or flocks a year. Mhmm. And I think total, we have 3, houses. Our barns are very, very long. There was 4 originally on the farm, but before we bought the farm, one of them actually burnt down.
Jessica:So we have 3, like I said, and I completely forgot what we were even talking about.
T.J.:How many chickens you raised?
Jessica:Oh, yeah. Oh, my. 87,000? 87,000. That's a hike.
Jessica:That's mom brain for you. The dog is still there. That's quite quite a lot. 37,000, I think, total out of, you know, all 3. Yeah.
Jessica:And so they come in in these little trays, a 100 chicks per tray stacked up, and we have to dump them out ourselves. And then they're there for 43 days. And there's a crew that comes in and catches them in the middle of the night, and off they go. And we have to get the houses ready for the next go around.
T.J.:How about, the hay and the forage and the row crops? What do you guys grow, and where does it
Jessica:go? So my father-in-law, he's more into the hay in my opinion. He really enjoys it, and we we sell most of it. He has several clients quote unquote quote that buys it. But my husband actually started the row crop himself.
Jessica:So he's 1st generation when it comes to that, 5th generation farmer for his family. But I remember kind of a backstory here. So, he graduated from Walter State in, like, the fall semester, and I don't remember the dates, but it was a Friday night. And that follow that next Sunday, so Friday, Saturday, Sunday, just right then after church, he went to Archibald, Ohio and bought his very first combine. And the rest is history from there.
Jessica:But he started off just real small. I mean, a 100 and some acres, I think. And now it's hard for me to keep up, but I think we're somewhere around 400 and something. So we do corn and soybeans. We have more soybeans than corn.
Jessica:Our corn goes to a guy in I believe it's North Carolina. He sends trucks down to get it, and then he he has a business that he he then sells the corn himself to different places. I think it goes to Chicken Feet, honestly. And then our beans go to a place called Cargill, and we have contracts with them and we have to fulfill those contracts or whatever when we book the corn and or soybeans, I think. So in both, we'd have to book it, quote unquote.
Jessica:So that's where it goes. It's used you know, soybeans are in a lot more than what people think. They're closed and it's it's actually amazing to look at it. I didn't realize that. I did not come from a foreign background, so this is all new to me and it's still I've been with Corbin.
Jessica:This is we're working on our 10th year between dating and 3 years of marriage and I'm still learning stuff every day. And he's so knowledgeable about it. It just comes so natural. I'm just like, what's that called again? Where is it going?
T.J.:So how did the 2 of you in in this large operation how do you have time for church?
Jessica:We were both raised in church. Obviously, me being a PK, I was definitely involved in church more than the average job. But he was also raised in a Lutheran he was raised in a Lutheran church. And so it was just kind of when we started dating in high school or 16, he started kinda coming to my church on Sundays, you know, I guess, trying to impress me. I don't know.
Jessica:And, it just kinda I don't know. We never broke up, and he just kept coming. And so now he does he goes to church where I go, Mohawk, Cumberland Presbyterian, and it's just something that he knew was very important to me, was to make time for church. I told him my children would be raised in church. It was important, and we have a thing, you know, if the ox is in the ditch, that's you know, sometimes he can't make it if something's wrong.
Jessica:Or if there's a big storm coming in and he needs to get the corn out of the field, but he rarely misses, but that's just something that's important. So we make time for it. It's just something you prioritize a lot of things in your life, and that's just something we put at the top of it is to make it to church. I just think it's very important.
T.J.:Do you think being the preacher's kid, that was instilled fairly early?
Jessica:Yes. Because if I do not go to church on a Sunday, that is the longest week of my life.
T.J.:What what does that mean?
Jessica:Like, I don't I don't know how to really explain it, but, like, if I miss church, like, it it feels like, I don't know, 10 years until the next Sunday. I feel like I'm never gonna get back
T.J.:to church.
Jessica:Even if I mean, granted that's a little, you know, dramatic, which people say I am. But it just feels like, oh my gosh. We're never gonna get back to church. I feel like it just makes for a long week. I feel like the week doesn't go as smoothly.
Jessica:My routine is off. I just I didn't get my time. I just did not get my time.
T.J.:What do you think that is, you know, not being part of the community of faith? Do you think it's the worship? Is it hearing more of the word? In those times that you you did miss and then it feels like a eon between the next time you can attend. What do you think is feeding into that?
Jessica:I just think that that's just how my body and my mind and, you know, my faith, that's just how I I I exercise it in a way, I guess you could say. I love going. Granted, I love to hear, you know, my dad my dad preach and everything, but I've been going to the same church, I think, for 21 years now he's been there. I'm pretty sure it's been 21 years. Might be 22, but I think it's 21.
Jessica:And so I just I just really I love going and seeing my congregation. They've literally watched me grow up. It's kinda that thing. There's people you just you don't remember not knowing in life.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Jessica:And I don't I always I've always known them. I feel like I was so young when I started going there and and sadly, a lot of them has passed on because we do have a older congregation. Most of them are older. But it's still just and we might be low in numbers, but I just think our church is special. I don't know.
Jessica:To me, obviously. My wife. But I just think it's special. I just feel at peace. I feel like my week's gonna go good.
Jessica:I feel like I'm set, my mind's set for a new week. That marks the end of the past week. If I've had a rough week, it just and I get to see my dad, and I love to see my dad. So, and my little niece, Landry Kate, I get to see her and my sister and just have her family and fellowship. And I just I enjoy it.
Jessica:I just always have. I just I feel like I just think I remember growing up and thinking, people don't go to church? Like, that's weird.
T.J.:What is it that draws you in into the Christian faith? I mean, I know you grew up in in it, but what is it about being a disciple of Christ that is the biggest blessing?
Jessica:I guess. And I'm I'm not saying, oh, you pray about it. You get it. That is definitely not the case. Everybody knows that.
Jessica:But, you know, everybody you just gotta have faith. You just gotta have faith. But I feel like until you you you don't until you really realize, you know, you know, Jesus is Lord, He's there for you. He's not gonna steer you wrong and you do have that faith. And I I realized that and I learned that at such a young age and it's just like the drug.
Jessica:I don't know. He's like a drug to me. It's just I know he's gonna take care of me. And I just know that I need to do these things and I need to be involved and I need to go to church as much as I can. And I'm not perfect by any means.
Jessica:Lord knows that. But I do I mean, I try to be. I do try to be on my best behavior just all the time. People say, like, I I'm not an outspoken person at all, but my face my face will say it all. And my mother-in-law, she gets so tickled at me.
Jessica:But I just I think it's just I was hooked at such a young age at what Jesus does for us and what he can get you through and that even though he's, you know, he's not, like, here like a physical person. He's not on the other side of the screen like you. He's he's here. You just you found comfort, and I just I found that at a young age, and I'm just hooked. I don't know.
T.J.:That's that's
Jessica:That's the best way I can describe it. I just I love the feeling.
T.J.:You know, we we've been talking about your dad. Your father is reverend Chris Franklin, and he's a Cumberland Presbyterian minister. And, what what is it like to be a preacher's kid? What is it like to grow up in a household where one of your parents is a minister?
Jessica:Well
T.J.:I know you don't have a reference point, but, I mean, do you think is it great? Is it strange? Is it
Jessica:I would have not ever changed anything, about my childhood because when you're little, like, you don't sit and think, well, other kids' lives aren't like this. You know? In my head, I don't know. I guess I thought every kid went to Presidary, you know, fallen spring. Yeah.
Jessica:I don't know.
T.J.:Since you brought that up, I over the over the years, I enjoy presbytery. It's one of my favorite things attending. But but I watching you as a preteen and into your teenage years, I was always fascinated to to look around and see this young person at a presbytery meeting. And then general assembly, you've attended general assembly more than once.
Jessica:I was a YAD, a youth advisory delegate, in Florence, Alabama, and then I went to Cali Cali yeah. Cali, Columbia. That's where I went. Yeah. I went there.
T.J.:Jessica, why why is there a young Jessica attending presbytery meeting when you're preteen and teenage years on a Saturday morning, you could have been doing so many other things.
Jessica:I don't wanna say, like, the only thing because it's definitely not the only reason why, but, anybody that really knows me knows that, like, I'm a daddy's girl. I say it could potentially be unhealthy. Like, it it could be unhealthy as much as I'm, like, my daddy's girl. I remember when I first got married, standing there washing dishes and crying because I wasn't at home with my dad because I literally lived in in his house until the night before my wedding. But anyway because I was home sick and he's just 30 minutes away, but I loved being with my dad for 1.
Jessica:Growing up, I loved to do anything my dad was doing. Like, I was working on cars, mommy anything my dad was doing, I wanted to do it. And then, 2, I just I grew up around a lot of the, you know, the fellow pastors, and I just enjoyed seeing everybody. I I honestly, like, I wish I had a better answer, but I just felt like that's just what I did. I just, oh, yeah.
Jessica:We gotta go to Presbyterian. Like, I had to be there. Like, it wouldn't go on without me. You know? Like
T.J.:That's great. Well, you definitely encouraged me because it it was wonderful to see you, attend presbytery all the time and, of course, watch you grow up. And and, you know, that has led into we were talking off mic. You've been nominated to be an elder, and you're gonna be elected and installed, did you tell me, next Sunday?
Jessica:This coming Sunday.
T.J.:Yeah. This come
Jessica:Whatever day that is. I don't even know.
T.J.:Alright. Well, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna I don't mean this as in there's a wrong answer, nor is this a quiz, but I do wanna ask you, what does it mean to be an elder in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church to you?
Jessica:Well, I'm like, well, I wish I knew, but I know the the gist, you could say. I'm not one. I've never really set in on a session meeting. That's one thing I've always, you know, went outside when my dad had to do those. You know, they could have their privacy.
Jessica:I kinda know what they do, but I'm still just like that's just something. I guess it was always in the back of my head that that was a possibility, but I was like they called me and asked me. I was like, well sure. Yeah. That sounds good.
Jessica:I don't care. That's great. I think every church's session is different. I think, obviously, larger churches, they have different issues or discussions or, you know, things that need to be talked about, where we are a smaller church. You know, things funds are limited, things like that.
Jessica:And I'm I'm really excited to to try to point us in different directions and maybe throw things out there. I already you know, I've talked about things forever and ever, and I'm like, I tell my dad, I have a list. Things I wanna do. If they'll let me, I'll do it. But I just I'm I'm really excited to experience that because that is something I've never got to got to experience.
Jessica:I mean, I've that's probably like I mean, it's an important role, but, I mean, I've done a lot of other stuff like go to Presbyterian, funeral assembly, setting policy classes with my dad, and all kinds of stuff like that. But I don't really know what to expect. I know they vote, and that's all basically I know.
T.J.:Well, you have some of that background and advantage of attending presbytery, going to general assembly multiple times. You know, these things will help help guide you. Jessica, what do you think that you bring as an elder to to the session, to the life of church? What gifts do you have that are specific to you that will help the church blossom, that community of faith grow spiritually and in their discipleship?
Jessica:I do know that and I I don't think I'm wrong on this, but I do believe I'm the youngest elder that I know they've had since my my dad started, you know, being a pastor there. I'm not saying because I'm young. I have all this knowledge because obviously I do not. They're definitely more knowledgeable, you know, than I am, but I just think I can bring a different side of things. I would love to grow our church.
Jessica:I would love to have a youth group. I would love to, you know, I would love to lead a youth group. But it's just it hadn't happened for us yet. I've talked to some of my people there and everything with younger kids. But, you know, every church probably sees it.
Jessica:It comes and it goes. The kids come, they dwindle, and then it's just kinda something we've always dealt with. But I just think I can I can bring a little different perspective than, well, this is the way we've always done it? And this is why we're doing it this way. And I'm just like, well, you know, it's 2022.
Jessica:Why don't we try it this way?
T.J.:I think you're right. I think you you bring your own experiences and your own perspective, and that's advantageous as with any elder when serving the church in that way. It's just another way to serve God and serve God's church. And, you know, it's an honor. It's a different gift.
T.J.:It's a different type of ministry. And you'll be able to do ministry, well, you have already, but being able to do ministry alongside of your dad as a member of the session. So that's pretty cool too. Who else besides your dad has helped influence your journey of faith?
Jessica:Goodness. I could go on and on and on and on. I've just I'm trying not to, like, beat a dead horse what they say, but I've been exposed to so many different people in our denomination than the average Joe, the average kid, the average you know? I mean, I I went to Paws, for 6 summers of my life. Like, that was my vacation.
Jessica:I did not go to the beach. I went to Ponce.
T.J.:Uh-huh.
Jessica:But, you know, we couldn't pick up and move to Memphis so my dad could go to seminary.
T.J.:Right.
Jessica:We went to Ponce every summer. So I was able to meet who I believe like, some of the best of the best, I feel like, in the denomination. You know, doctor Tom Campbell, he was the director all through his last year was like my dad was the last of the his little group, you know, or his big group. But, him, doctor Ruston Haven, doctor Hester, Tammy Green. Even though she wasn't in PAWS, she was, you know, has a big influence in my life.
Jessica:She did mine on my husband's marriage counseling. She directed church camp with me there bunches and bunches of times. I was a counselor alongside of her. I'm on the Camp John Spear Board with her on the board of directors now. Who else?
Jessica:Jamie Lively. He was the director of church camp when I decided I was ready to get saved, I remember. Goodness. I know there's more, and I don't want people to think, oh, she left me out, but I know there's more. I'm
T.J.:just Where?
Jessica:Hat picket, hat picket. You know? And I think there's so many more. It's just those are the ones that, like, are in the top of my noodle.
T.J.:Well, you've named some wonderful people, and you've been influenced by some great people in in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. So you had mentioned, making a profession of faith at camp. Let's talk about that for a few minutes. Where were you? How old were you?
T.J.:What were the circumstances?
Jessica:I've listened to, like, a lot of your podcasts trying to, quote, unquote, prepare for this thing. But and because I I didn't even know it was a thing, and I think it's really awesome. I really do. And, when I'm, you know, driving equipment or whatever, I've got my AirPods in and I've found that I'm listening to them. But, anyways, besides the point, like a little squirrel there sometimes.
Jessica:I just remember I was at Camp John Spear. That's one of my favorite places in the world.
T.J.:Mhmm. Let me interrupt you. So for context, Camp John Spear, we're in East Tennessee. It's up on a mountain called Viking Mountain, as many camps, rural setting. Go ahead.
T.J.:Go. I interrupted you. I'm done.
Jessica:Oh, you're fine. No. You're fine. I and but what I was saying about listening to these podcasters and a lot of people I've noticed have said, I can't tell you what was said. I can't tell you my age.
Jessica:I can't tell you anything. And that's that's me. I can remember like I said, Jamie Lively was the director that year. And I remember, you know, the last night at camp, we did the it's it's the thing. It's a whole mood, you know.
Jessica:It's just nice, you know. They're just asking you, you know, if you're ready to do this, if you're ready to take Jesus Christ as your savior. And and I this was not my 1st year at camp. I wanna think I was 9 or 10. I hadn't been going very long.
Jessica:I started when I was 8 and, buddy, I went all the way through. And I just remember going outside and walking out of Fort Plenty and if anybody's been up there, you know where Fort Plenty is. But and I just remember sitting there talking to Jamie Lively, and I do not remember a thing we talked about. But I just remember that's when I was like, hey. Yeah.
Jessica:I'm ready to do this. I just felt it. In up there at camp, you know, going up the hill, I feel like anybody who has loved for that camp, you just you have a feeling when you go up there. Like, it's indescribable. But and then and I don't remember if Jamie talked to my dad or if I talked I don't remember how that went.
Jessica:But, of course, you know, he talked to my dad or I talked to my dad, and we were going to pause. This was at summer camp, so we were going to pause. And one of my dad's good friends, I call him uncle Andy, but it's Andrew Ward, and he lives in Nashville. And, anyway, they went through pause together, and me and his kids, you know, ran around together. But he, wrote a bunch of scripture with me and we went over a bunch of things and, you know, that's what I wanted to do.
Jessica:And then we scheduled a baptism at church several you know, a few months later. My dad was not ordained at the time, so my dad was not able to, you know, baptize me. But we got somebody lined up and we did the thing and it was great. And I just, I don't know. It was just it was special, but I can't tell you anything that was said.
Jessica:I can't even tell you my exact age, but but I'm thinking 90.
T.J.:And I
Jessica:know it was Jamie Motley, and I know it was a kid named John Spare. Whenever I was like, hey. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds really good.
T.J.:It was really interesting because you have really the whole or a large part of the community of faith all helping and people that you could go to to talk to, ask questions, help you with, scripture and different things like that. So it was really a group contribution, to help you along, Jessica, as you began a relationship with God. That's pretty fascinating. That's probably the community of faith at its best.
Jessica:Community is definitely the right word. Yeah. It's definitely the right word.
T.J.:So Jessica, not every person has had the opportunity, the blessings that you have, to have that community of faith nurture you, help you grow, be available to ask your questions. What what words do you have for for young mothers, young parents, young farmers, young people, just people out in the world that are searching for answers, searching for guidance, searching for solid ground and can't find it. What would you what advice would you give them as a Christian?
Jessica:I feel like it could be very overwhelming for someone who I feel like I was just born this way. Like, I I mean, granted, I'm not saying I didn't have a choice.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Jessica:But I'm thankful, extremely thankful for the way I was brought up and that I was exposed to all of this, all of this community, all of these amazing, amazing people. And I just think it can be very overwhelming for someone who isn't quite sure, I guess. And, you know, I know going to church is important, but I feel like you can have church anywhere. You can have church in your car. You're gonna have church, you know, in your house, in the tractor, wherever you wanna have church at, out in your yard.
Jessica:And I just though church is important, congregation is important, the community, but that's important. You have people, you know, to lean on, in that sense. But I think for someone who who's new to it or trying to explore it, start start small and that's so big at the same time. You know? Yeah.
Jessica:Just picking up the Bible and reading it, you've been learning so much. And the Internet is a wonderful thing and, you know, you can tune in to online services, you know, and find someone who you're comfortable to talk to when that time comes, you know, if you're ready. And some people might just, you know, go to church and find somebody they are comfortable talking with, but I just I think until you read it and you you understand, you know, that Jesus is Lord, like, it's kinda tricky until you just have that peace that, well, yeah, this is it. This is what we're living for. You know?
Jessica:There's an end goal here.
T.J.:So start small. Keep seeking. Be intentional. And find But
Jessica:it's not where it's okay to not know everything.
T.J.:Says the one who's been so hard on herself about chores in the house, so extend that grace out and the world will be a better place for sure.
Jessica:Mhmm. Even though if you don't know the words, Jesus knows. You know? He knows what because sometimes I'm like, I just I need to talk to him, but I don't have the words. But I know I find comfort and I find peace that he knows.
Jessica:He knows what's in our hearts and minds. That's what I've always been taught and told and read and preached to about. You know?
T.J.:Is that comforting, or discouraging knowing that when we can't articulate what what's happening inside or what we may be thinking. Do you find that frustrating or is that comforting knowing that God understands?
Jessica:I think it depends on what it is, but I think at first it could be very quite frustrating. Like, I don't understand or, you know, there's little, you know, personal story here that I'm learning to more to talk about because it's not talked about much. But postpartum depression is a thing. And it's you're embarrassed to be like, hey. You know, I'm sad, and I just had a baby, like, 2 weeks ago.
Jessica:Why am I sad? This is supposed to be the happiest time of my life. You know, and I had a hard time with that. I just I couldn't wrap my head around it. And, it just I just knew that he would take care of me.
Jessica:That he would he understood. I couldn't put into words why I was feeling what I was feeling. I loved my daughter, but I just my world was flipped upside down. And I just wanted to sit and cry all the time. And I remember calling my dad, and he he was at work.
Jessica:You know, he has a he's on a full time pastor. So he had he works for the state. And he was at work, and I called him. I think it was a Friday. And I was already crying before he answers the phone.
Jessica:And I he said, hello? And I was just crying. He said, what's wrong? I said, I can't stop crying. He said, I know.
Jessica:He said, I knew something was the matter a few days ago. Like, he already knew before I knew. And I guess that's a parent, you know, mom or dad. And I was like, what is wrong with me? Like, why am I feeling this way?
Jessica:Like, this is crazy. Like, and nobody talks about it because it's, I mean, you're kind of ashamed to feel that way after the most magical thing in the world just happened. Like, you're pregnant with this baby for all this time. No. Go.
Jessica:Yeah. We're so excited. And then boom. There they are. And it's just, you know, the yesterday that you knew is gone.
Jessica:I mean, it's not the same. Nothing is the same. And it was just and I've gotten so much better with it now. I mean, thanks to God and a lot of medication, which is fine. But, it's just I just want that too.
Jessica:I know a lot of people, like you said, listen and, you know, that's something I was embarrassed to say I was going through. And I just want people to know women, not people, but women to know. Like, it's okay. And, you know, I just knew God knew. Like he just knew.
Jessica:Okay. He knew that was gonna happen to me probably before I even had her, but it just it will it just hit me like a ton of bricks and I just did not understand. I didn't know how to put it into words and I just know that he just he knew. I decided to find comfort that he knew. And he was gonna comfort me and give me peace.
T.J.:Jessica, so help me. What can we do for those who know someone that is experiencing postpartum depression and how can how can someone also find help when they're having postpartum depression? I guess it's a twofold question. So you choose the one that you want to address first, but
Jessica:And I know not everybody is as blessed as I am to have such a support system because, I called my mother-in-law before or my mother-in-law might have called me. I don't remember. But before my dad, and I just started crying on the phone with her. And she was like, oh, honey. What what's I'll be right over.
Jessica:She lives about 2 minutes away from us. I'm coming right now. I'm bringing you a chocolate chip cookie from Chick Fil A that I bought, and I'm I'm coming over right now. And I want I'm gonna take the baby. I want you to go outside and read a book, you know, get in the shower.
Jessica:Just move, she said. And, but I have a support system like no other. I'm sure other families you know how you feel about your family. No one's family is better than mine, but I'm sure there's no other families. I have a really good support system, and it was very hard for me to talk about it at first.
Jessica:But I just pray that if a woman's going to that, they can find somebody that will support them and not be like, well, why do you feel that way? You know? I just couldn't imagine having a spouse or an in law or a parent or a friend say, well, why do you feel that way? You just had a baby. Like, I don't know how that would make me feel going through such your hormones are just all over the place and, you know, you're taking care of a whole human like a whole another one.
Jessica:Like my husband, it's so funny. He'll go, she looks like a little human. Look at her. I'm like, she is a human. She's not an alien.
Jessica:He's a foreigner, but she's, you know, she looks like a little human. I just I just pray and I don't know. I know there's so many resources out there. And definitely in bigger cities and things that, you know, groups or people who are experiencing or women who are experiencing postpartum depression. I would just try to seek those groups out, seek those positive people out, find someone that understands that's been there.
Jessica:Because the baby blues and postpartum depression are completely 2 different things, and I did not know that. I thought I had baby blues, and then they never went away.
T.J.:So, just just to recap, because this is a serious thing. I don't I don't wanna, you know, like, just gloss over it.
Jessica:Oh, I know.
T.J.:So for a woman, seek out help. Or a mother, seek out help. If you don't find it in the first person, keep seeking out help until you find it because it's Go
Jessica:to your doctor. I mean, that's obviously what I did too and I'm blessed in that aspect too. I have an amazing doctor who has actually asked she said, can I pray with you? Well, absolutely. You know, like, I'm I'm just I'm blessed to have all these people in my court on my side.
Jessica:And I just you know, any new mom or any mom in general, like, I'll talk to them. Like, call me up. I mean, right up here. I'm gonna put my phone number
T.J.:right here.
Jessica:We already don't have this discussion, but just look me up. I'll talk to you. I'm not a trans professional, but I have experience.
T.J.:Well, that that's a wonderful offer, Jessica. What about the what about the other end, The, support group, you know, spouse, family, co workers, neighbors, friends, how can we help? How can we help someone who is going through that?
Jessica:Well, and I read something on Facebook one day and, my husband's grandmother actually asked me about it. But it said I think the the header or the caption or whatever said take care of the mother and or hold the mother maybe. And don't quote me on that. I may be wrong, but something something went wrong. But it was like, you know, everybody comes over.
Jessica:Well, let me hold the baby. You know, let me hold the baby. You want me to change the baby? You want me to you know, the baby is gonna be taken care of by mom and dad. And I know everybody's excited, you know, about the baby.
Jessica:Everybody. But we kinda get looked over. Like and I'm not talking negatively about anybody at all, but whenever you're going through all these emotions and these hormones and all this, you kinda just feel like you were the incubator. Like, you grew as human for 9 months. Everybody was worried about you for 9 months.
Jessica:You know? Oh, don't do this. Don't do that. You know? And and I was so I mean, I was thankful.
Jessica:And I would get frustrated because I'm very independent. But and I was like, I can do it. I am pregnant and not disabled. Like, I can do it. But, and then you have this baby and you bring this baby home and then everything is about the baby.
Jessica:And everything to me and Corbin was already about the baby. She was already having plenty enough love for mom and dad. And, like, I I just, like, hold the mother. Make sure the mom's okay. You know, let her know that it's okay if your house is messy.
Jessica:Like, I'm not gonna judge you. Let me do a load of laundry. Like, my mother-in-law, she did all of her laundry. It was great. Like, she would just take it home with her, and it that was great.
Jessica:It helped me out a lot. But, like, I would be like, oh my gosh, people. We're coming over here. This house looks like a pigsty, and it really was not that bad. But to me because that's just the person I am.
Jessica:And it just you know? And, I had to have a c section and due to her heart rate dropping all of a sudden. But and that recovery is, like, awful. Like, they do not tell you how bad that one hurts, but it hurts. And it was just hard for me to do anything.
Jessica:And it just I was frustrated at that. And then, you know, I wanted everybody to come see the baby, but I was just like, it was just kinda like, oh, how are you, Jess? Oh, I'm good. How's Iris? Yeah.
Jessica:Is she doing this? Or, you know and I I I love my family. But even in general, I know other moms experience that, and it's hard to it's hard to understand unless you've been there or if it's been a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot of years since you've had a baby. But you do kinda feel looked over as the the new mom. Like, you grew this human.
Jessica:You were the incubator. She's here now or he's here now. Let's focus on you'll be fine, you know.
T.J.:Alright. So for those of us who did not birth the baby, we need to pay attention to the mother as well. Don't neglect the mother. Got it.
Jessica:Well, as I mean, it's a very joyful time, but, you know, you're only in the 4th trimester. I think that's what they call it or the 5th or whatever. How many trimesters are they? Because I don't really remember anymore. I have mom right.
Jessica:Anyway, I think it's like the 4th trimester or whatever or 5th. I don't know. You're only in that for a short period of time. You'll get through it. But it it would it's so nice to have people who look after you because that baby is gonna be here.
Jessica:We've prayed for years years to love on. You know? But I wanna be in that state, fingers crossed, praise to God, you know, hope a short period of time. You know? Like, she's gonna have time to be loved on.
Jessica:He's gonna have time his whole life to be loved on her. Her whole life to be loved on. But, you know, that mom, like, that's a huge change, like, all of a sudden. You know, like, woah. Yeah.
T.J.:What is helping you now to be the top notch mom that you are and for you to heal physically and and emotionally and spiritually?
Jessica:Like I said before, you know, having that support group, and like I said before, a little medication. And, but I've just had to learn. You know? What I'm doing is enough. I'm definitely a lot better than I was.
Jessica:But just knowing, and I think any parent can understand this, but, like, all of my needs out the door. All of my wants out the door. I do not care what I want, what I need. I do not care. I just want everything for her.
Jessica:I want I mean, anything. I just and just knowing that she needs me, like and my husband. You know, she needs my husband as well, but, like, she needs me to make her balls. She needs me to clean her little tushy. She needs me to rock her to sleep.
Jessica:You know? She needs me to put her little passe in her mouth. She can't do anything. She just lays there and smiles and and rolls on her side, not to her belly, but rolls to her side. And, you know, I have to remember to give her her little acid reflux medicine, and it's just I feel like once you kinda get over that hump of all the hormones and all the emotions and your your depression or your baby blues, whichever, I hope, you know, people don't get it at all.
Jessica:It should just go away, but it happens. You kinda just oh, okay. Well, she needs me or he needs me and you just, like, snap out of it. And it's just your life now. And I'm pretty sure I don't even remember what your original question was, but that's what I'm saying.
T.J.:Jessica, one day, Iris may listen to your face journey on the Cumberland Road. Somewhere, she'll find it out in in the metaverse, the, you know, the Internet. So this is an opportunity for you to share some words of wisdom and speak to the future, Iris. What would you want her to know about you, about how important faith is in your life? What message would you want to send to her?
Jessica:Well, the first thing I'm gonna say, and it may not even go towards either of those faith or myself, but it's something that my dad has taught me. And I have said it over and over and over again. But when you don't know what to do, don't do anything at all. If you don't know the decision you wanna make, don't make a decision. You know, even if, you know, prom dress, she's a girl, wedding dress.
Jessica:If you don't know, don't buy the dress. Don't buy the shoes if you just don't know.
T.J.:So so make decisions or or act in confidence or or don't don't at all. Okay. Yes.
Jessica:And I hope, you know, that her faith comes as easy as mine did, but, you know, everybody's different. She may have doubts. You know? You never know. I mean, it's when you reach that age and you're like, well, you know, there there's God.
Jessica:We don't see God. Like, it's hard to, you know, for them to how do we know he's real? You know? It's hard well, you gotta have faith. You gotta, you know and you're just like it's hard to explain that to a little kid, I think, or even a teenager sometimes.
Jessica:You know? Definitely because in today's world, everyone knows. Like, it is not the way it was even whenever I was in elementary school, and I'm only 25 years old. Like, this world's crazy sometimes. So so I just and I worry, you know, about her being bullied, And I think about all this stuff.
Jessica:I asked Corbin if they're not, do you think we need a homeschooler? And and and this is just his personality. And if you knew Corbin and he didn't mean anything about this at all. He's like, I don't know. He goes, I don't want her to be weird.
Jessica:And I'm not saying that homeschool kids are weird at all. I'm friends with several, and they're perfectly fine. I said, well, I'm weird, and I went to public school. He goes, I don't know. And I'm like, well, we have several years to figure it out, but I just I just want her to know, like, today may seem terrible, awful.
Jessica:You're never gonna get through it. You'll get through it. And you'll look back, and you'll remember not want not thinking you're gonna be able to get through it, but you'll get through it. And then you'll be okay.
T.J.:Iris, I hope one day you listen to this and have the opportunity to get words of encouragement from your mother in the past.
Jessica:She'll probably think, you really are crazy after listening to this.
T.J.:Yeah. There may be phases there, but maybe she'll come around full circle.
Jessica:I hope so, and I pray so.
T.J.:Jessica, thank you for being so open and so vulnerable and so honest in in our conversation, to share about you and your life, your faith, your marriage, motherhood, church, and everything that we covered. It really has been so encouraging to share this time with you, and I hope others who listen are moved by your faith and and about your life and your perspective as I've been. Just I just remember this preteen and teenager sitting among all us old people in presbytery meeting. And when I say old old people, I mean me specifically. I'm not talking about anybody else, but we were all older than you in that room and in those meetings.
Jessica:I was like 8, 9, 7. Probably younger.
T.J.:See, I'm so old. I can't even remember that far back. So there you go. Jessica, thank you so much, for allowing me to be a part of your life and for taking time out of your life to share your
Jessica:faith. Absolutely. I find it an honor. I remember even telling you when you called me on the phone that day, like, why does he want me to do this? Like, I do not, like, live up to any of those people that he interviews, like, or has a conversation.
Jessica:Like, oh my goodness. Like, what? I'm not interested. These people are smart. I don't know what I'm supposed to say.
Jessica:Like, I just I don't know. I just in my head, I'm like, well, they're in ministry. And then I had to tell myself, like, well, I'm in ministry too. I was called to ministry as a young child, and I know we're ending this thing. But just a different type of ministry, I think, than what most people are called to, perhaps.
Jessica:I'm not one. I don't feel I need to be in front of a church. I'm kind of on the sidelines. You know?
T.J.:We're called to ministry. Our roles and our gifts just vary, and that's what makes it beautiful. And your gifts make the community of faith beautiful. And that's why I wanted to hear I wanted to hear your faith journey and share it. So thank you, Jessica.
Jessica:Thank you.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to The Cumberland Road. If you or someone you know, a family member or friend, who may be experiencing postpartum depression, talk with your doctor. Also, if you are like me and you don't know where to begin, there's a website called postpartum depression dot org. There you can find information and support, treatment, and recovery. Thanks for listening.
