Jodi Rush - Hope, Finding Words, And Ministry With Children
You're listening to the Cumberland Road, and I am TJ Malinoski. The following is a faith conversation with Jodi Rush, the director of children and family ministry for the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination. Jodi has spent her life helping and nurturing children in the Christian faith and creating spaces for them to lead and serve. Enjoy this faith journey on Cumberland Road with Jodi Rush.
T.J.:You get to work with the most amazing and beautiful people in the church. Who do you spend the most of your time with?
Jodi:I work with children, really birth through the 6th grade. I guess I get to spend the most time with those that are around kindergarten through the 6th grade because they, you know, will attend events, and things like that that that I have. So
T.J.:What is your, title in role in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
Jodi:My title is coordinator of children and family ministry for the discipleship ministry team. And so that's that's where I get to experience. I actually, I usually say that I mainly work with children, but I also work with the people that love those children. Right. Because a lot of the times, I am planning events for teachers and pastors, parents, and things like that.
Jodi:So so I get to do maybe equal portions of that, but my favorite time is when I'm at an event and the kids are there. So
T.J.:Working with children for as long as you have, what do you think the greatest lesson that young people have taught you?
Jodi:Goodness. I you know, every day that you're with them, you're gonna learn something new. That's or every moment. You know? Right.
Jodi:I hope. I think I think the thing that I continue to be amazed at is children's ability to lead and to serve. Sometimes that does not get nurtured. You know?
T.J.:Mhmm.
Jodi:But when it does, it is amazing the way children can rise to the occasion, at all ages. They really have such a willingness and gifts at, you know, at every age. So it's, amazing when, you know, we let them show that and and and to do that, whatever it is.
T.J.:How do you help young people find their gifts, find the things that they enjoy doing, explore their capabilities? In your role within the church, what do those settings look like for youth to explore, for children to explore, and discover?
Jodi:Mhmm. I do think it takes some time. So observation, some time spent with the children. So for me, like, the event that I plan for is called children's test, and we do have children reading scripture and doing leadership roles at that event. So I have to rely on, peep you know, adults in the churches telling me about what they've observed from their children, because I'm not with them all the time.
Jodi:But, observation, time spent with them, talking with them, they will tell you what they're about if you let them. You know? I know in our church at the Brenhaven Church, the church I attend, we've had some really good readers, and they love to read scripture in in church. And, that it is just the most beautiful thing to hear them read the scripture. It it is my favorite day when that happens.
Jodi:They're now teenagers, and they're still doing that, but they started at a very young young age reading reading scriptures. And, that was just a parent saying, you know, my child said how much they like to do that, and then it has to go down through, you know, the children's minister. Tell this the pastor, you know, and then it happens. But, the congregation then also has to be open to it, and so you hope you find find that positive reinforcement, you know, as well.
T.J.:Within the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination, through the role that you serve, what is available in terms of resources, you made mention to events. But for those who are listening that maybe seeking out ideas and how to encourage discipleship in young people, what advice do you have? What resources are available?
Jodi:Well, my number one gig, so to speak, and, favorite day of the year is is already mentioned, is Children's Fest. That's an event for children k through 6th grade and most often happens at Bethel University. We I say that because occasionally in in years past prior to COVID, we, were beginning to, spread our wings a little bit and had the event in other places. But right now, we're we're back at Bethel having that event. And I love that event because I believe, it allows children I mean, we plan it, like I say, with them being in leadership roles.
Jodi:It is not an event planned for adults and, oh, the children get to do the best they can. You know? This is an event for them. It's like Vacation Bible School on steroids is what we say because it's one day, and we try to pack it all in. You know?
Jodi:But, you know, it it is a great event for smaller churches to bring. I love it when I have a church come and bring 1 child because they have a hard time, they feel, doing programming for, you know, back at home when you only have 1 child or 2 children or Mhmm.
T.J.:That
Jodi:kind of thing. So that's a a wonderful thing about the event. Now the downside of the event for me is that it's it you know, it's limiting. You know? Not everybody can come because of the distance.
Jodi:As far as other resources, we, and myself, we're always willing to come and lead workshops. We call them discipleship blueprints, and there's a few set ones out there about, like, reviving your Sunday school, you know, those kinds of things. But pretty much, if you tell us a topic that you're needing, work on, we'll we'll do it.
T.J.:Right.
Jodi:We say, oh, there's this set of blueprints, but but, really, we will customize whatever you need. And that's really a good thing. You know, of course, we can do that again for a few years. So we're coming we're kind of trying to, figure out what churches are needing now because it's different. Mhmm.
Jodi:It's different now than than before. Most churches are kind of trying to figure out what they're doing now. You know? So we do I do a lot of talking on the phone, believe it or not, and emailing and that kind of thing. I think that's that's the main resource we have have right now.
Jodi:We do have a a resource right now, a path through that that we're we've created and written. So we, you know, we do those kinds of things.
T.J.:For people who have not been connected to, Children's Fest or maybe not aware of it
Jodi:Mhmm.
T.J.:What time of the year should they, kinda be planning and looking ahead, to attend?
Jodi:That event typically is taking place in July, around the middle of July this year. It's July 15, 2023. And, it's, like, a Saturday event, 9 to 3:30. Those that are coming and wanna spend the night on Friday night, we do have, the ability to house folks in the dorms, at Bethel. And that's another fun experience, not for the faint of heart, of course.
Jodi:But I occasionally, I have, you know, churches say, oh, do I just drop the children off? I'm like, no. You do not drop the children off. No. But the adults and the children stay in the dorm together, and then they get up and eat breakfast in the cafeteria.
Jodi:And then we have our activities. And that's a big deal. The kids love eating in the cafeteria, you know, and that kind of thing. So, anyway, it's a good day.
T.J.:Jody, how did you get into children's ministry?
Jodi:Well, I it I attended the McKenzie church in Mackenzie, Tennessee growing up, and they started asking me to provide leadership at a very young age. I was in high school leading a 45 year old Sunday school class that had 9 little boys in it. You know? I think I I I guess I thought they saw some gifts in me. I think they really just didn't want you know, I was the only one that was willing to do that.
Jodi:No. But, I led I was the director of Vacation Bible School when I was in high school. Wow. And I served as an elder at at that church in high school. And, you know, I thought every church did those things.
Jodi:You know, I I didn't I wasn't I didn't go to camp. I wasn't a camp person. That didn't appeal to me. They would have loved for me to have gone and would have encouraged me to go. That wasn't my thing.
T.J.:Did you did you try camp?
Jodi:No. No.
T.J.:Okay.
Jodi:No. I didn't even I didn't even try. And we didn't have a lot of children or a lot of teenagers in our church, in the Bikidsey church at the time. So, but I don't really remember how that began. It just began, and I just loved it.
Jodi:I remember just thinking all the time how I was going to plan vacation bible school and what decorations we were gonna use to, you know, go along with that story, and how we were gonna tell the story to the children, and, you know, what curriculum we were gonna pick out. I mean, oh, it just made me it just I loved
T.J.:it. So you're dreaming and planning these things as a teenager.
Jodi:Yes. And asking adults in the church, would you would you be a teacher at Vacation Bible School? I mean, I was recruiting. I was doing everything, and they were doing it. I mean, it was, you know and I didn't know that that was that unusual.
Jodi:Yeah. You had to later in life, then I realized, oh, this doesn't happen in all churches. So so I think that really does feed into me really encouraging children to do this at a young age and encouraging churches to do that because, you know, you wanna encourage that spark that might be there at a at a young age because you don't know what, you know, might happen with that, you know, as you go along. But, yeah, it's night it was nice to be trusted, and I think that's a big thing is is providing that trust and that opportunity. So yeah.
Jodi:But those were amazing years. And so then I went to Bethel, college, and I and I started off in elementary ed because I didn't think you could do Christian education, you know, for a living. And then I met Javeer Ramsey at Bethel, and she was teaching the Christian education courses. And she got me started with that, and within a year, I changed my major, and that became my my path then. And Devere, she would come to the cafeteria and sign us up for her Christian edge.
Jodi:All the other folks that were in you know, going into ministry or just anybody that she thought might take her class, she would come we would see her coming into the cafeteria when it was time to be signing up for classes, and she would be, say, you know, getting us signed up. So, anyway, it was amazing. Mhmm.
T.J.:Alright. Let's go back to when you were a teenager and you accepted the responsibility of being a Sunday school teacher to 9 little boys. So what was going on in your mind? That's a pretty big that's a pretty big class, you know. I mean, regardless of whether boys, girls, or mix.
T.J.:Yeah. That's a that's a pretty big class, pretty big responsibility. Can you recall what what your first impressions were?
Jodi:You know, I don't remember any fear at all. I don't. I may have been at the time, but I don't remember. I was just so caught up in the fact that, oh, I had a room and I could decorate it, and I could get prepared for them, and we were gonna do this activity. I mean, I was just the planning part of it was so exciting to me.
Jodi:And then they responded well. I mean, they they they did. Not every Sunday, of course, and I didn't have all of them at the same time all the time. But, yeah, it was just, that's what I remember the most. I might have been scared to death at the time, but I do not remember that at all.
T.J.:So you found your your niche, your calling really early. Mhmm. Did you use curriculum at that time? Did you create your own? Okay.
Jodi:A little bit of both, I would say. I mean, I used whatever the church provided and and then embellished it.
T.J.:Right. You you adapted it to the context that you were in and who you were at the time.
Jodi:Yeah. Exactly.
T.J.:You were a young Christian as well though, so I would imagine that you were also learning about what it means to be a disciple and the scriptures along with the children.
Jodi:Oh, absolutely. Because, yeah, you know, then I wasn't attending my Sunday school class. Mhmm. You know? So but I you know, it is really true.
Jodi:That is a cliche that they say is you do learn so much by teaching. So, I felt like, you know, I I was learning right along, you know, with them. So
T.J.:It it sounds like that you grew up in a church that believed in in leadership Yeah. And believed in children. Yes. What what people, what faces stand out from that time in your life where you got encouragement, where you felt empowered, where you felt important within the church. People that raised you up.
Jodi:Yeah. During that stage, the Mackenzie church, definitely my pastor, Bob Prosser, he was the one who asked me to be an elder, and I'm sure, was behind the scenes, encouraging others to ask me to do all the the other things that I was doing. I made friends with a dear lady named Lille True, who was the church secretary, and someone who had been a Christian educator when she was younger. And she and I spent a lot of time, planning and, you know, doing that kind of thing. I would go to her house, and she wasn't teaching, but she would let me spread it all out and, talk about what I was gonna do and, you know, all that kind of stuff.
Jodi:And there was such a you know, she was probably in her late sixties, early seventies at the time, and I was a teenager. So there's a great, you know, age difference there, but we, you know, we had a, that interest of planning and doing Christian education in common. And there's lots of other people in that church. I hate to even start naming names, but, but, you know, for sure, those 2.
T.J.:What was it like to walk into a session meeting with elders and you had a generation or more apart between you and the other elders.
Jodi:You know, that was a long time ago. I, again, I noticed I don't mean this to sound cocky at all. I I don't, but I don't remember being that afraid. I think because there was such an atmosphere of acceptance. You know?
Jodi:They had asked me to do this, so I must be able to do this. You know? So I think that's how I kind of entered it. I don't I, you know, was quiet to begin with. You know?
Jodi:I know that might be hard for people to believe who know me now, but but I think I was listening and learning, so it was a good quiet, you know, kinda thing. But, you know, I I began there to see the other side of of ministry when hard decisions had to be made. You know? I would I remember a few session meetings coming home very upset, you know, about things that had happened and were said. Just normal things.
Jodi:But
T.J.:Right.
Jodi:I saw behind the the curtain, so to speak. You know? Right. So, but, anyway, it was an amazing opportunity. Now that I'm married to a minister, I will probably never get to serve as an elder again.
Jodi:So it was a it was in a, you know, it it makes it even more amazing that I got to do that. But when we we, you know, ordain elders, I do get to go lay my hands on an art that's, you know, part of the service because I am an ordained elder. So, every time that happens, I I think back to that amazing opportunity. It makes me emotional to think about it, really.
T.J.:I would imagine that in your teenage years well, I still have some of this, but that idealism of what the church could be, what it can achieve, what it can do in mission and in service. And sometimes when we have meetings, boy, it it cramps that up at times. Did you looking back, did you have any of those feelings or thoughts of how we sometimes get in our own way when it comes to the organizational aspect.
Jodi:I don't think then I did. I I think that started happening later in life. That was a pretty amazing experience, and it didn't I don't think that like I said, I had a few times when I would come home upset or, you know, hurt that a decision had to be made a certain way or, you know, things like that. But but I don't think I I started having those kinds of things until, you know, later.
T.J.:Yeah. When you had a little more experience under your belt.
Jodi:Yeah. Exactly.
T.J.:Jody, was there a time in your life when you were younger, when you were small, where you felt the closest to Christ, where you felt like the beginning of a relationship with God? Or are you one of those who just cannot recall a time when there was, I don't know, a feeling of absence or or a lack of a relationship?
Jodi:I would probably say the the latter of those. Before before we were in McKinsey, my family actually lived in Chicago, Illinois. I was born there. Lived there till I was 5. And my parents had moved there when they were, just married.
Jodi:They lived in the Gleeson, Tennessee area growing up. And my dad moved there to find work. Well, both of them were working. And they went to the only Cumberland Presbyterian church in Chicago. And this church was made up of about 30 or 40 people, maybe.
Jodi:I you know, I don't know. I don't remember that closely, but I I've seen pictures. I think it was called the Westside Cumberland Presbyterian Church. But, anyway, it was made up of all of these people from the south who had moved to Chicago to work, and they were Cumberland Presbyterians. And so it was it so I remember in the basement having Sunday school, and I was literally the only child in the church because my parents were significantly younger than everybody else that was there.
Jodi:But I still remember the little cards with the pictures of Jesus, you know, and the story on the back. You know, I still remembered that, and I was younger than 5. So, I certainly know that there's been times along the way where that, you know, that feeling of closeness has, been very present, but I don't think, it's like, oh, this is the moment where I first knew Christ because I feel like that was always present for me.
T.J.:The McKenzie church obviously noticed the leadership it and gifts within you, during your teenage years. Did you have time to be a teenager? Did you have time to get
Jodi:into the mischief? Yes. I was in the band at school. I had friends. I didn't just plan vacation bible school, but I'm not gonna talk about the mischief I got into.
Jodi:But but, oh, yes. Absolutely. I did all the teenage things as well.
T.J.:When you were a student at Bethel College, now Bethel University, and you started getting into the Christian education courses and and that being recognized as a ministry, that was during the time of of some change to where you were probably on the front end. You correct me if I'm wrong, but kind of on the front end, a pioneer of sorts of having Christian education as a role, as a function, as an employee within a local church. What was that like? Because there wasn't really anything to, like, point back to or to reference.
Jodi:You are exactly right because, like I said, when the my freshman year, I was an elementary ed may you know, major and was so I was taking education classes. But, just continue to feel such a call to do Christian ed and continue to have people, like I've already mentioned, say that's what you really should be doing. And just to the point that I went in between my freshman year, my sophomore year to the lady, and I don't even remember her name anymore, but she was head of the education department at the time and told her that I was going to be changing my major to Christian education. And this was the first time, I guess, I'd had a roadblock put up, you know, because the McKenzie church was saying, do this. Do that.
Jodi:You've got you know, you're good at this. You know? And I when when I told her that, she was like, why in the world are you doing that? And then I tried to explain it to her. And at the end, she was like, you will never find work and you will be back to me.
Jodi:That was her response. And I was like I got out of there and I thought I was just stubborn enough, you know, that I thought, oh, no. No. I will not be back to you. That's for sure.
Jodi:But, but, anyway, it was the first. And there and you're right. There was no, like, there wasn't, like, a Christian education director in every CP church. You know? So I did have a lot of wonder about how this was gonna work out.
Jodi:So I I didn't have a master plan for that. And there's been a lot of times along the way I that I thought, okay. I don't guess I'm I'm gonna get to be doing my Christian education work, you know, here in this place, I've found myself. But, you know, god has always kind of found it's always kind of worked out.
T.J.:I would imagine, because we can we can see it today, that if a person shows gifts within the church, they're automatically pushed towards ministry to, like, the word and the sacraments. And there are other roles within the church, Cumberland Presbyterian Church and beyond. I would imagine that you really face, like, oh, well, okay. Jody has a calling, and it looks like ministry, sounds like ministry, so it must be ministry to the word and the sacraments. Did you ever face that?
Jodi:No. Not not back then. Not when I was in college because that wasn't as big of a conversation happening then. You know? In recent years, that has been more because we have had so many people do that, go that route.
Jodi:And I think that's great. But that is not something that not one time have I felt like I needed to do, wanted to do, was called to do. Yeah. I feel like I've had plenty of opportunities and work to do, doing children's ministry, and and that just wasn't where I felt God was calling me.
T.J.:You finished up at Bethel, and you're this newly minted graduate with a Christian education degree under your arm. Then what happened?
Jodi:Well, before that even happened, I got married. So, so I also had a husband who was headed to seminary, in Memphis, and, and that's what I'm saying. You know? At that point, I wasn't exactly sure what that meant for me. But then I got a call from the, bookstore.
Jodi:We had a bookstore, when we still had, you know, the center on Union Avenue, and I was asked to be the Christian education consultant for the new 8 hundred line. What is that? Bookstore. Oh, the bookstore had an 1800 line back then. You need you know, you would have to call long distance to call the bookstore and order your stuff.
Jodi:So they put in an 800 line where anybody across the country could call in for free. See, you're so young, TJ. You know, that doesn't none of this makes sense to you. I'm sorry. No.
Jodi:But, anyway, so if they wanted to order curriculum and they needed to say, talk about, you know, we've got this many kids in this class and this and they, you know, they needed to discuss their Christian education needs, they would call the 1800 deadline, and I would answer and talk to them about, you know, Sunday school curriculum and the other books that we had in the bookstore that might you know, they might be looking for a study for adults and you know? So I worked in a little cubicle, answered the telephone. It was great. It was a great job. I learned a lot about resources and about the churches and people in the churches and yeah.
T.J.:Well, I picture you like wearing, you know, a phone, a headset I
Jodi:do do that sometimes. But the problem was they weren't wireless back then. And so I would have to if I needed to run out into the store to find a book to talk about, I would be connected. You know? And so I got to the point where that wasn't too much fun wearing a headset, but they were old fashioned back then.
T.J.:How long did you do that?
Jodi:Well, the 3 years that Kip was in seminary.
T.J.:Okay. Mhmm. Well, I imagine at that time, then you probably really did get a good idea of what was out there Mhmm. For children, youth, and adults in terms of Christian education in general.
Jodi:Yes. And the the other interesting thing was Kip was wanting to go into youth ministry. He wasn't interested in the pastoral ministry at the time. So here you had a person that wanted to do youth ministry and another one that wanted to do children's ministry, and that wasn't even much of a thing in the whole denomination. So we were quite the payer at the at that time.
Jodi:You know? But, after seminary, he was hired as the youth director at the Elmira Chapel Church in Longview, Texas. And, so off we went. And, a little bit later, I was hired as the Christian ed director at the Marshall's CP church, in Marshall, Texas, which was, you know, just a 30 minute drive from Elmira Chapel. So
T.J.:how long were you at Marshall?
Jodi:About 3 years. Yes. It was great. It's great experience. That was another place where they just let me, you know, do my thing.
Jodi:They were, they had a lot of great volunteers there, and they, you know, had a big vacation bible school. They just they needed somebody to, you know, just kind of oversee all of that and and help them with that. So so that was a great thing. The the exciting part about that for me was how I got hired. Roy Blackburn was the pastor of the Marshall Church, and, I didn't know Roy at the time.
Jodi:I just knew him as an amazing theologian, you know, very outspoken, amazing preacher, you know, very involved in denominational things, and I had never really met him in person. But one day, we're, you know, in Longview at our house, and he called and he says, I wanna come talk to you. And I'm like, what in the world? You know? But, anyway, he came and he said to me he said, Jody, I am Christian education illiterate, and I need you to help me.
Jodi:And and so oh, yeah. So I got to work with him, and that was an amazing, amazing time to get to know who he was and, you know, he was an early morning person and I was too, so I would be able to come into the church and, you know, vacation bible school would be coming up. And so I'd go into his office, and I would just start rattling off all the stuff, you know, blah blah blah. You know? He would listen.
Jodi:He would nod. He would, you know, he he would say, go and do. You know? But he he he really didn't know anything about Christian education. But, anyway, he he was an just I loved working with him in that congregation.
Jodi:It was a great time.
T.J.:It's pretty astute to be able to look, you know, inwardly and recognize what you do well and and maybe what you don't do as well and what your shortcomings are. Mhmm. And it's pretty awesome that I don't wanna make it sound like a a role or a job fell into your lap, but you were actually approached. You didn't have to go and seek.
Jodi:Yeah. Right. I mean, like I said, I was working at the hospital in Longview. Because like I said, you know, I wasn't earlier, I said, you know, I wasn't always sure what I was going to be doing with this Christian education degree and calling. And I sometimes had to wait and be patient for that to happen.
Jodi:You know?
T.J.:So as you're leaning into your role, as a Christian educator there at the Marshall Church, what were some of the things that you learned immediately? What were some of the things that you've continued to take with you, beyond that into the role that you have now? Because this was the first. Well, I mean, you've received affirmation after affirmation, you know, as early as a teenager. But this was a true affirmation of people outside your home church Yes.
T.J.:And outside your circle of friends and family that were affirming the strengths and the gifts and the abilities that you had.
Jodi:Yes. And
T.J.:have. I don't wanna speak always in mass past tense.
Jodi:I definitely like I said, that church had a lot of volunteers that were ready to serve. I mean, they had a Christian education committee that had probably 8 to 10 people on it. They would show up for meetings. They would actually do what you suggest that they do. I mean, it was just a a really, and I think I learned how to work with volunteers there.
Jodi:Mhmm. It wasn't like I had to do it all on my own or nor should I do that, you know, because that would have been bad for that church because they they, had people ready to serve. And, so that and and again, I was still pretty young working with, you know, folks that were a little bit older than me. You know? So that but but it was a good good experience.
Jodi:They responded well and yeah. Mhmm.
T.J.:What other places have you served in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church?
Jodi:Well, we, this is not in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, but I have to mention it because it's kind of odd. It was I this is where it kinda I swerved off the road a little bit. But it was a great opportunity. But we so when we let, we ended up at one point in Columbus, Mississippi at the Bershba CP church where Kip was the pastor. And, there wasn't a Christian education role for me there.
Jodi:You know? So other than volunteer, of course, but I'm talking, you know, a paid position. So it ended up and I don't even remember how it all worked. I think, there was an ecumenical ministry on the campus of the Mississippi University For Women, which was in Columbus. And they, there was a, like I said, an ecumenical ministry of which Cumberlands were a part of, as well as the Episcopal Church and the Lutheran Church and seem I like a couple others.
Jodi:Well, anyway, they were in need of a campus minister for that ministry. And so I was hired for that, and worked that job for probably 4 years with college students on campus. And that was not something I saw coming. That was outside of my children's ministry comfort zone. But but I learned, you know, I used my skills of planning once again, and, you know, those college students showed up every Tuesday night, and they really needed just a place to hang out and somebody to listen.
Jodi:And we went on retreats and did, you know, all of those kinds of things. So, but, yeah, that was a a place where I served, you know, that another thing I I just I never dreamed I would, you know, be doing. But then I guess the next thought would be at Bren Haven. We moved from Mississippi to Brentwood for and Kip is the pastor at the Bren Haven Church, and I was hired as the Christian ed director and did that for a few years before moving into my role with the denomination.
T.J.:Out of all the vocational experiences that you've had that has led up to where you are now, what do you think has been the greatest learning experience, the greatest skill that you've developed that is helping you?
Jodi:Well, I I think as, you know, we've talked about is each one of those jobs were very different. Each one of those roles were very different. I mean, working in the the bookstore, you know, working with college students, you know, all the different things has led to especially now after COVID or after, you know, we're at this stage of it. You just you have to be so flexible and adaptable and ready to change. But, you know, those are there's, you know, those basic skills and things I know about Christian education and about planning and about people and volunteers, there's some basics.
Jodi:But you've gotta be willing to, apply them in different ways. Because, especially now the world has changed so much. The churches are changing so much. So, you know, I can't do, things exactly the way I did it back in that little the Sunday school classroom with 9 kids. But some of those basic things are still true.
Jodi:But but you have to be willing to, use those basic principles that you know in a new way.
T.J.:As a minister, and maybe part of my personality, I live in my head a lot. And I was wondering when we convey images and concepts about God and Christianity and Jesus, it's easy to become technical. That's probably not even the right word, but theological, deep theological in our language. How do we share with young people who God is, what God represents, and what God means in our life. That is concrete, that's real, Because I think it's easy for us to move into the abstract and the metaphor real quickly, And that doesn't always translate very well for a 1st grader.
Jodi:Yeah. That's a that's a hard one. Language is very important, and the use of language that, is more common to a 1st grader is important. And and some people really struggle on how to how to do that. You know?
Jodi:I think you have to be willing to connect to that person of a different age. You know? And and and try to watch what your your language is. I I don't know if I have any magic wand to that. I think there has to be a willingness and an understanding that, communicating with a, a child, a 1st grader, that I that you wanna do that.
Jodi:You know? The person in the pew that maybe doesn't have a 1st grader at their home, they have to want to have that, you know, communication with them. That's the first step, I guess. You know, being paying attention to language is really important. Pastors could really take a lesson from that.
Jodi:I I think in our worship services, you know, a children's bible could be used every once in a while reading the scripture. You know? Sitting in the pews, maybe maybe bat put it with on your knees, you know, and seeing the church at that at that level
T.J.:Right.
Jodi:For a few minutes. I don't know. I'll be maybe silly about that. But I'm just saying there has to be you know? I I want children to be welcomed in congregations so badly.
Jodi:And and like I said back at you know, that I want them to be asked to serve, but there has to be a willingness. And and people have to think, oh, this is important. You know? And and not because children are the church of the future, but because they're the church right now. You know?
Jodi:I I cringe when people say that. I know they mean well when they say that. That is not the truth. If the children are present in at that church, they are right the church right now. You know?
Jodi:So sorry. Get a little bit excited about that.
T.J.:I've heard ministers many ministers say that they felt like the children's message in a worship service connected with the adults more than maybe their sermon. Why do you think that is?
Jodi:Because they've they're trying to relate to a a different age group.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Jodi:And so and maybe make it a little more personal, you know, come you know? You have to be careful about object lessons of old you know, you can't get too into that. You wanna keep it on the scripture. The the children's message needs to be on the scripture. But I think maybe they just try to relate it to the children, and so then it becomes relatable to everyone, you know, I guess.
T.J.:I think we learn by by doing and observing as well. I know when I served in local church, if we celebrated the sacraments, I'd invite the younger people to come forward so that they could get a better view Absolutely. Because of the height. Mhmm. And I'm not real tall to begin with.
T.J.:So I I can be sensitive to that. But, you know, if you have people standing or if you can't see over the pew or barely see over the pew or the the shoulders that are in front of you, you're not able to see, like, the sacrament of baptism.
Jodi:Exactly. Because I was gonna say invite them for baptisms as well. Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. To sit in the front pews, and the same with the Lord's supper as well. To be able to see the cup in the pitcher, to be able to see the bread broken. That's significant to us as disciples of Christ, but it that also includes in a community of faith to children as well. So I think we learn by doing.
Jodi:Absolutely. Absolutely.
T.J.:We've been talking about conveying and pointing our young people to God and God's presence, Jody, when do you feel God's presence in your life? When do you know that God is is available to you and nearest to you?
Jodi:I have several answers, I think, for that. I have a kind of a ritual these days that I like to do, and that is get a I'm a I'm a morning person, so I get up pretty early anyway. But I have a special chair, and I like to read whatever devotion or whatever I'm reading at the time and have my coffee and be quiet. And that's one place that I meet God, I would say. I don't really ever feel like God's not with me, though, so it's not like I have to show up in that chair.
Jodi:You know? But I do like that. I really connect to God through people a lot too. There's just been lots of times over my life that I feel like God's presence has been really conveyed to me through people. You know?
T.J.:We were talking a couple weeks ago as we were, planning for this faith conversation. And when we were in our discussion, we were talking about a recent event in your life. In April of 2021, you were diagnosed with cancer. Are you comfortable in sharing that experience with me and where you are now and how that's impacted you and your faith?
Jodi:I am. I appreciate you asking because it is, you know, now just a part of my everyday life. So it it it seems odd not to talk about it. You know? But it is it can be the elephant in the room with people.
Jodi:And when I was diagnosed, I was told that that would be the case. So it's not that I have to talk about it, you know, 24 hours a day, but it is comforting to have a conversation about it sometimes, believe it or not, just because, it is a part of our our everyday life. But, yes, in April of 2021, I wasn't feeling very well, and I went in to my primary care doctor who immediately recognized some things in me that she had never seen before and sent me to have a CT scan. And, I was originally diagnosed with, ovarian cancer, some more tests done, and then, discovered that I had stage 4 metastatic breast cancer. So
T.J.:Let's let's pause. Let's pause here for a moment, and let's talk about what that is and what that means.
Jodi:Sure. A part of that was that got me sent to a different doctor before I got that diagnosis. They knew I had cancer, but, they sent me to this other doctor who is still my doctor today. And he is doing a normal, like, chitchat at the beginning of this visit. And I in my mind, while he's talking, and I should have been paying better attention, I was thinking, oh, this is not even gonna be breast cancer.
Jodi:Because I had my mammogram, you know, not long ago, and nothing showed up. So he's about to tell me that this is really not anything. Instead, he said just the opposite of that, that it was stage 4 metastatic breast cancer, meaning that the cancer began in my breast but had spread to other places. And what that means is that it is a treatable cancer, but not a curable cancer. So that I will, you know, live with it for the rest of my life and will be in treatment of some sort for the rest of my life.
Jodi:So that was quite an announcement, let me just say.
T.J.:When you heard that news, were you by yourself? Was Oh, no. Kip. With you Yes. Or your your daughters?
T.J.:Okay.
Jodi:No. Kip was with me. Like I said, we'd kinda play downplayed it going into this appointment because we thought we knew, you know, all the things. But, anyway, we didn't. And so, you know, there was the rug pulled out from under your life experience.
Jodi:You know? And so I immediately started a treatment, which for metastatic breast cancer, it's quite different than other stages of of breast cancer, I learned. I didn't know. I didn't know anything about it. You know?
Jodi:And and I fought with my doctor, as a matter of fact, because I couldn't understand why I wasn't having a mastectomy, why I wasn't gonna do chemo, all of those big things that you always hear about breast cancer. And one thing I first thing I learned was that now breast cancer or probably other cancers too are all treated so different than they used to be. There used to be just kind of like one thing you did, but now it's based off genetics, the treatments that they will use. So it's very personalized. So whatever treatment you're going through, the next person is probably gonna be doing something totally different.
Jodi:There's all these new drugs out there that are being successful. So so that's that's one thing. I only knew one little thing.
T.J.:Right. Well, that that's informative. So it's not that catch all of 20, 30 years ago of No. Of when we have a family member or friend or colleague that says I have cancer and we automatically have the treatment plan run, yeah, run through our mind, that is no longer the case.
Jodi:Exactly.
T.J.:So we should keep quiet or inquire more of what that personal health care plan looks like.
Jodi:Exactly. It's very different. And, you know, some of those things may happen eventually in my journey with this, but, I said I fought with my doctor because I thought I, you know, I thought he thought I was too far gone or something or that I wasn't tough enough to handle chemo. You know, I even said that to him like a crazy woman. But he was like, no, Jody.
Jodi:That's not what, I'm doing here. What we're doing is we're we're gonna use the drug that is the absolute best drug to fight your cancer, and we're gonna use it as long as it's working. And then when it's not working, we're gonna find the next scenario. So with with stage 4, it's they don't want they want your quality of life to be good because the cancer is not gonna totally go away. So with lower stages of cancer, they, you know, they just wanna eradicate it as much as they can and get it gone completely.
Jodi:But this is a little bit different approach. It still doesn't completely make sense to me sometimes. But and and when it doesn't, I go to that doctor and I tell him I said, can you explain that to me again? You know, even 2 years into it, and he does. He's very patient.
Jodi:And, he often will come into my appointments and say, oh, I just got a report from, you know, name off this organization. Here's the next here's the third line drug we're gonna use on you with this one stops working. You know? He already has a plan, you know, 2 or 3 lines of defense for me.
T.J.:So Yeah. For example, help me out. Mhmm. The current treatment plan that you have, the assumption is that it will not always work, and there will have to be another one. So what you're doing now may not work next year or 3 years from now.
Jodi:Exactly. Exactly. But when I first started, though, I thought things in much shorter terms, I thought, oh, I mean yeah. And and so he quickly told me that we had time for this to work. But then the big thing that happened was I got involved with a support group who had other women in the support group that had metastatic breast cancer.
Jodi:And and that's kind of unusual. You don't there's not a lot of people you can find with that. And some of them had been on the drug that I'm currently used, like, 7, 8 years. That was, like, a pivotal moment for me because, literally, I thought if if you really wanna know the truth, when I got that diagnosis, it was in April, I in my mind, I thought I might not live to Chris you know, and to see Christmas. I mean, that's I felt bad.
Jodi:The drugs hadn't started working, and it was such a devastating diagnosis. But then I started feeling better, and my doctor started giving me positive information. And I've met people, you know, who had been on the drugs for that long and, you know, the hope the hope started coming back. You know? So so I'm very hopeful now.
Jodi:I I feel good and I live life to the full, and, I mean, I try to fill it with all the things I love, as much of them as I can, all the time. So you ask him, he says that he wishes the doctor would tell me to slow down a little bit. So so I wouldn't run him so ragged all the time. But, anyway
T.J.:I have a tough question for you. Okay. But I'm asking in context that maybe it could help others.
Jodi:Sure.
T.J.:There was a period, I'm sure, that was dark for you. And how did you how did you get through that? What well did you draw from? How did your faith and your family and your friends speak to you during those those dark times? If you if you were in April and you didn't think you were gonna make it to the Christmas that December, that's a that's a dark space.
Jodi:Yeah. Well, I I would like to say that I prayed a lot, but I couldn't pray so much. I mean, I was in the presence of God, but there were not words. I I couldn't say the words because I didn't know what to say. But I knew that everybody else was praying for me, and so there was such great comfort in that.
Jodi:I would get, you know, Kip was very close. My my girls were very close to me, physically. You know? And, I would get text messages and emails and phone calls and food would show up and literally cards in the mail from churches that I had never attended or didn't even know anybody there, I didn't think. But they would tell me that they were praying for me.
Jodi:And I it it finally dawned on me, and I settled down, so to speak, in the fact that I didn't have to have the words because other people, were saying those words. You know? So I, had I did very much have such great support from, you know, Kip, Madison, Devin. I have a circle of friends that I call the pillars, that lift me up. You know?
Jodi:And and the Bren Haven Church just I mean, I just can't even go on and on about the amount of support, you know, that I had. And it was also helpful that there were times I didn't wanna answer text messages or emails or see anybody, and people respected that as well. So yeah. And and then I started feeling better, and I could start putting putting words to my own prayers then. And, also, during that time, discovered a writer by the name of Kate Bowler.
T.J.:I don't know
Jodi:if you're familiar with Kate Bowler, but she and I I read one of her books. Actually, I I've listened to it, and she read it to me. You know? So it was like she was in the room with me. It was wonderful.
Jodi:And that was, she was diagnosed, at 36, I think, with stage 4 cancer. And so she in the first book that I discovered of hers, she tells about that experience. So that was an amazing thing for me to hear somebody else. You know?
T.J.:I think it's amazing. The community of faith had words when you didn't.
Jodi:Absolutely. I I, and I have a little different feeling about it than some people. And I had a lot of people that allowed me to express it in that. You know? There were days that I didn't have to be happy about it, and I didn't have to you know?
Jodi:This is not fun. Cancer is horrible, and I'm not gonna act like it's all fun. You know? Or or that you know? I this may be controversial, but, you know, oh, that there this is happening for a reason.
Jodi:And, you know, some of those kind of cliches that people say when they're nervous and they don't know what else to say. You know, those I have to reject those sometimes and I just or sometimes I'm nice and smile and and then I'm behind closed doors. I kinda scream, you know, about it because, you know, I don't know that I've I've I don't know. I I just feel like in times like this, you're just not gonna be happy all the time, and you're not gonna understand why this is happening. And you question god about it.
Jodi:I know I do. And it's not that I don't think god is with me. I do. But I don't like this, God. You know?
Jodi:And I don't like the thought that I might not be around for an event in the future that I wanna be here for. You know? So, I'm pretty honest now. Now I didn't have words for a while, but then when my words came back, you know, they were pretty honest. So anyway When
T.J.:when we were talking a couple weeks ago and planning our schedules, you had shared with me that, now you you don't wait. You go and you if you there's something that you want to do or experience, you go and you do it. So talk more about that because after we hung up, I was like, wow. That's I can't always do that, but maybe I can. I don't know.
T.J.:You got me thinking about it. I never really saw that as an option, but could you talk more deeply about that?
Jodi:Well, like I said, not you know, after a few months, I don't even really remember how long because now I go to the doctor every month, sometimes a couple times a month, so it all really blends together. But, when I did start sort of feeling better, I started asking you know, I started wanting to do this and that, and my children and husband and friends were like, Jody, you need to rest. Do you need to rest? You know? So I finally just asked the doctor.
Jodi:I said, so do I need to rest? Am I really hurting myself by wanting to go on a trip to Florida to see my best friend or, you know, and go to Disney and stay there for 12 hours if I could possibly make it. You know? And he's like, no. You're not doing you're not hurting.
Jodi:You can't do anything to your cancer by that by by living your life that way. He says, but he says, I do think you need to do all those things. But when your body says it's tired, then you rest. So that is my philosophy now. I do as much as I can possibly do.
Jodi:And when I'm tired, I rest. So
T.J.:What words of wisdom do you have for those of us who don't know what to say when we know of a loved one who has cancer? And, Jody, your cancer is still with you. So when we say things, oh, well, maybe that's God's plan or, oh, Jodie, you look great, wonderful, you no longer look sick. Help us for those who are partnering with those who are sick, who have cancer, that isn't gonna be eradicated, what are healthy responses, what are helpful responses that we can share with another?
Jodi:You know, and I think this depends on the person, you know, because I've heard my kind of approach sometimes is not the same as other people. But but I think mainly having an openness to talk about it. You know? It is very strange to be in a room of people, and it it's obvious they don't wanna talk about it. You know?
Jodi:That that's hard. Because it's now a part of my daily life. It will be forever. So, you know, it's not like, I don't think about it every day. So and, again, I don't need to talk about it every day or, I mean, all the time, but I just okay, just a willingness, you know, when the time is right to talk about it.
Jodi:I almost would prefer that as the you know, the the things that you may or may not say that are right or wrong or, you know, those I can almost live with better than kinda being ignored. You know? But, I do get told all the time, oh, you look so good. My my I always want to respond with, man, I must have really looked bad before because I have stage 4 cancer, and I get more compliments now than I ever did before. But, no, I just that I'm just joking about that.
Jodi:But,
T.J.:but I But I did I did ask. I think we fill I think we fill the room or the space with words because we don't know what to say. And I think you have this opportunity to go, here's what may be helpful for someone who has cancer.
Jodi:Well, I think I think not act thinking you know what's going on is one thing. Like an open ended question about, well, tell me what's going on with you now is a good question for me because I'd be I'd be glad to tell you in a short way, you know, as opposed to saying you look so good, so you're all better now, you know, or something like that, you know, assuming that because I look a certain way right now that I am all better. You know? But I do think that open endedness, a willingness to let me tell you, what is happening is probably the way to go. I bet but, you know, TJ, I hate to do this, but I will say, like, in my support group, that I still go to, some people in that group don't wanna talk about it at all.
Jodi:So I I don't understand that, but that's their choice. So I guess that's an another opportunity for an open ended question about do you feel comfortable talking about it. You know? I think that is the way to talk with someone, rather than just assuming you know. Does that make does that make sense?
Jodi:I don't know. That makes sense.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I wanted to ask.
T.J.:Mhmm. It's gonna depend on the person. Context. Mhmm. But, you know, you made me think by, oh, the comment of, oh, you look, you know, great or so much better or good, really is an affirmation for the other person to go, oh, thank you.
T.J.:It it puts a book into the conversation before it can even get started.
Jodi:Yeah. Mhmm. I think those comments are well meaning. I do feel good right now. And, hopefully, that means that I look healthy or whatever.
Jodi:And sometimes I will tell people when I know they're confused by that, I'll say or the or the other question is how are your treatments going or, you know, what is your last you know, how's things going? You know? And I'll say, well, they're good. Oh, great. You know?
Jodi:And sometimes it leads into me saying, you know, I still do have cancer in my body, but I'm doing well. The the treatments are keeping it. It's not growing. It's not changing, but it is still there. And that that either shuts somebody up or that and they find a convenient way to run or they are then we have a conversation and it ends, you know, appropriately, however.
Jodi:But, sometimes it's good to tell people that because I think some people just don't understand it because it is different than all the other stages of cancer. Like I said earlier, I'm still trying to understand that myself. It is different. You know? If somebody goes through chemo and they lose their hair, you know they're going through that.
Jodi:There's a physical thing you can see. When their hair grows back, usually that means they are past their treatment, and cancer is probably gone from their body. So with metastatic, it is hard to figure it out. I don't have those physical cues like other people do because all of that has not happened yet in my journey if it happens. You know?
Jodi:I don't know. I don't know. That may be more more information than you want, but it is an interesting journey, I I will say. I yeah. I try to be gentle with people and explain it because I think most times people have my interest in heart.
Jodi:They wanna know. But they don't understand it because it is, like I said, so different than other other cancers.
T.J.:Right. Well, where you are today, has your relationship with with God changed in the midst of this life changing event? Is it deeper? Is it stronger? How does it convey with other relationships in your life?
T.J.:You're a different person than you were in April of 2021.
Jodi:I think I'm pretty plain spoken with God. I don't know if that's exactly what you're asking, but that's the first thing I thought of. Like I said before, my prayers before might have been a little, I don't know what the word I now I feel like it's very raw and personal to me, you know, with my prayers. I'd I I don't know if that makes sense. I'm still, maybe I'm still processing that myself, to be honest.
Jodi:You know? But, again, I I will say again that, I have people in my life that very much connect me to God when I am not feeling connected or you know, I have people that pull me in, and if that makes sense, and love me and connect me again. So, you know, people are very important to my my relationship to God.
T.J.:Yeah. Can you imagine having the life changing events that we all do and not have a community of faith
Jodi:I can't.
T.J.:To to draw from. No. What an absence of having to experience life and the changes that come, unforeseen changes alone.
Jodi:Yeah. And I and I do think, even though I haven't explained it too well, that ability to be able to say the rawest things while I'm sitting in my chair with my coffee and I'm just saying to god, you know, god, this is really ridiculous. And I may use even stronger words than that, but I won't do that on your podcast. But, you know, the ability that I feel like I can just say those things, and it doesn't hurt my relationship with God. I feel like sometimes that in other people, I hear, you know, different language that they use when they talk to God, and I'm like, jeez.
Jodi:I don't I I just have to lay it out there because you
T.J.:know? Yeah.
Jodi:If that makes sense. Yeah.
T.J.:God is bigger than our words and bigger than our problems.
Jodi:Mhmm. And it's okay it's okay to question and to be mad about things that are not going the way you want them to go. You know? This has slowed me down a little bit. I I had to not do some things I didn't wanna do.
Jodi:Now I'm I think I feel like I'm back up to full speed. But, yeah, but there's always a fear and of what might be, of course. And, you know, I think it's okay to to voice that and not and not hold that in and say, oh, God God's taking care of me and that kind of thing. And I I I love people who feel that way. I'm not trying to discount that, but I mine is just a more of a, yeah.
Jodi:God has taken care of me, but I I could I'm scared some days. I worry some days. I, and then other and most days are joyful and great, but but I have the range of emotions with with this cancer. I do.
T.J.:That's beautiful in and of itself to be allowed to have the range the range of emotions, and it'd be alright.
Jodi:Well, it's alright with me. I don't know if it's alright with everybody else, but that's the way I've been able to survive.
T.J.:I think I like this new Jody. Well, you have a unique perspective of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church because you get to see it from the height and the eyes and experience from the level of young people. So what do you think our young people are currently bringing to the church and what more they'll be bringing as they get older? How will that impact the future of the church? What would that look like?
Jodi:Well, you know, they bring joy and great love. And they also see a lot of things that we'd like to pretend they don't see, you know, in the world. And so, they're gonna bring a lot of leadership and all of those things I just said if we allow them to. I think we're gonna have to have an openness to oh, I'm gonna use this word I shouldn't use, but we're gonna have to have an openness to change. It's controvert most controversial thing I've said.
Jodi:You know? Because we can't do everything the way we've always done it and reach the children, the youth, even the adults in our congregations. So we may not hear those voices if we can't decide how to how to to tweak. I'll use that word. Tweak what we're doing enough to make it, you know, a welcoming situation at our churches.
Jodi:You know? Or may make our programs at a time when a child can even be there and their families can can get them there or willing to get them there. We get so wrapped up in this is the way we've always done it, and this is the time that Sunday school occurs. 9:30, that's when you learn about the bible. No.
Jodi:You can learn at other times. So, you know, I I just see that a lot right now that we're struggling to figure out how to make that old model work still. And in some churches, it's working. And so I applaud that. I think keep going, you know, with that.
Jodi:But I would bet that they tweaked things somewhere along the way, but, a little bit. But I just I feel like churches that are struggling right now, they need to really dig deep about just making it meet the needs of the people that they have, not it the the people they have having to do it exactly the way they've always done it, if that makes sense. And I and I also think about those churches that don't have a lot of children, and there's still so many ways they can minister to children. I would be willing to bet that there's grandparents in that congregation, and they have grandchildren. They can minister there's children in the community.
Jodi:They can figure out a way to minister to children without the children being in their church building. Again, if they just have to be willing to to do that, but I think that just broadens the scope of our love and our understanding of god so much to have those relationships with people of other generations. And that goes for the children too, you know, of course. They gain a lot from, you know, being involved with other generations.
T.J.:Yeah. And to approach a life with abandon and questions and curiosity, Those often come at a younger age, and we need to pour that out on us who are older. The spirit of of curiosity and experimentation Mhmm. With a minimal amount of fear for those who climb tall trees and wheelies on bicycles and try out new sports and horse riding and reading books that they've never heard of before and having books being read to them and coloring with finger paint and pencil and pen. How there's just so much that is new, taking walks and going on trips.
T.J.:Those first experiences, now they're wonderful. And to be able to see the world through the eyes of someone else at any age, I know it takes an act of humility, but it's worthwhile.
Jodi:Yeah. All those things you just described sounds like children's best. We do we do almost all of those in one day.
T.J.:Well, that seems like a good place to pause here. So let's put in another plug. Children's Fest, July of 2023. Give me the dates again.
Jodi:July 15th, 9 to 3:30 at Bethel University. And, yeah, I I I do people shameless plugs all the time.
T.J.:Where can people find more information? Where can they register?
Jodi:Well, registration is not open yet. It usually opens the 1st May or so like that.
T.J.:Okay.
Jodi:The best place is, I guess, currently, I'm your best bet. The there's nothing updated quite yet on on the website, but, eventually, it'll be on our website. But, yeah, to email me, I'll be things are about to start happening about that, you know, like promotionals and things like that. So
T.J.:Alright. Alright. So look look for updates and social media Yeah. Ministry council website. Yes.
T.J.:And look for registration open up in May Yes. For the Children's Fest.
Jodi:Yes. And
T.J.:then that way, you'll be able to meet Jodi Rush. If you haven't met her before, you'll be able to meet her in the flesh.
Jodi:Mhmm. Yes. And and you can tell me how wonderful I look. How about that?
T.J.:Yeah. I guess we shouldn't leave that part of it. But, like, you will take compliments at any time.
Jodi:Yes. I will. I take them very well.
T.J.:Jody, thank you for being vulnerable for the podcast and sharing yourself with me and sharing with others. It it's been a privilege to work with you as a coworker.
Jodi:Well, thank you, TJ. I appreciate it. I appreciate you very much.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this faith journey on Cumberland Road. To support this podcast, subscribe, follow, and share with others. As Jodi has dedicated her life to helping and nurturing children, here is Madeline, who is 7 years old, to close this episode.
Madeline :Kind words are like honey, sweet to the soul and healthy for the body. Proverbs 16 verse 24.
