Cumberland Road

T.J.: 00:02

You're listening to The Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. Following is a faith conversation with John Pyon. He is an air force ROTC John is also a candidate for ministry to the Word and the Sacraments. He's one of the founding members of the GJH Ministries, a as an 18 year old and his search for finding guidance and understanding to satisfy the hunger of learning what it means to have faith. John found it in a unique place and among some amazing people. Enjoy this faith conversation with John Pyon.

T.J.: 01:12

John, thank you for joining me on the podcast. I thought we could open up the conversation, the faith conversation with GJH Ministries, at the Cumberland Presbyterian New Church Development. And, well, tell me more about it.

John: 01:30

Yeah. No. Thank you so much for inviting me to this opportunity to share about my church and also my faith. So GJH ministry, stands for God, Jesus God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. CJ's ministry is located in Duluth, Georgia.

John: 01:49

We found the church back in 2014. So, this June will be around 9 years, since the church has been founded. So it's state's fairly new, but it's growing. So, originally, we were doing, me plus, a couple of other college students. Most of them were college students.

John: 02:17

We were doing discipleship training, through our current pastor, pastor Peter Jones. Was it back back in, like, 2012, 2013? The we all went to this, we all went to the same university, University of Georgia. And the there was, one of the church members who knew pastor John before, they were doing discipleship training. And then once I went to UGA and met him, he invited me to attend this this discipleship training with pastor John.

John: 02:50

And we did did that for about 1 or 2 years. Met on a weekly basis to share about our faith, to grow in our faith, and see how we can actually practice our faith in our daily lives. And that was a that was a definitely a life change changing experience for me because I was at that point, I was I was fairly new to my Christian faith. And so, you know, I was reading the Bible, but I didn't really understand, you know, what was Jesus saying? You know, what is the Bible saying?

John: 03:20

What is God saying? And pastor John or, he kinda kinda translated it for me. Hey. This is what God is saying. This is how you should live your faith, and how to practice your faith in the daily in your daily life to be, the the mirror of Jesus in your life.

John: 03:41

And so as as I did that training, I I gained a lot more confidence. I gained, a sense of identity of who I actually was. Because before, I I didn't really understand who I was. I didn't know what I was doing with my life and where my map my life will take.

T.J.: 04:00

GJH, its roots begin there at the university. So a handful of students kinda gather together for for study. And so this new church development actually is coming out of students gathering together at school for further study. Yeah. How did, you get connected with the current church leader, the the pastor?

John: 04:31

So, there was one church member, that was that was, that I met at a different, a Christian organization on campus. It was a Korean Christian campus meeting, because I was looking for ways because I was brand new to my faith, but I wanted to I was desperate to know more about God and what it means to be a Christian. And so, met this person named, person named Chris. And through him, I was introduced to pastor Zhang and this is discipleship training that they were doing. And we did that for about 1 year 2 year about 2 years ish, year and a half.

John: 05:16

And then everyone started to graduate from college, and started, getting a life, a job, an occupation. And so we were praying. We were but we were still doing these discipleship trainings on a weekly basis. But we, we were praying. We were desperate.

John: 05:36

And, one day, you know, while we were praying, God gave us the desire to start a church together. We we wanted a church that was founded in just solely what god wanted, to just serve god only, and to find to be that true worshiper that god was looking for. And so, we thought it, you know, it was God gave us the vision to create a church. And so in 2014, that's how GJH ministry was was founded.

T.J.: 06:11

Those early days of of GJH was really there on campus. Where were you meeting at in on campus?

John: 06:20

So it was we were actually we all were living around the Duluth area. I think it was about, like, 8 or 8 or 9 of us. But we were all living in that Duluth Duluth area. So, every single one of us came back, home on a week on a weekend basis. And so every Saturday, we would meet, I think, it was at a local Panera Bread.

John: 06:49

We would meet early on Saturday mornings and do those trainings. And then, yeah. And, yeah, it was it was all over the place. It was different different cafes all the time, but mostly can they are bread. We just meet up.

John: 07:08

And, the first book that we we were really looking at was something called, Salvation and God's Plan. It's a Korean book, but it was kinda in a theological way explaining what salvation is and what it means to be saved. And then also, right after that, we started a book called Experiencing God, by Henry Blackaby. So those life changing books that the pastor experienced in his life of faith and just wanted to share that onto us.

T.J.: 07:37

Now the first book you mentioned, that one is translated into English because I, actually, I have it. I don't know. I'm unfamiliar with the second book, but the first one, I don't know if I have it here, but I definitely do. Yeah.

John: 07:51

Yeah. I think I think there was a translation version of that.

T.J.: 07:54

Yeah.

John: 07:55

But, yeah, I was reading the Korean version, while we were doing the training, but it was it was a lot of it was a lot of theology. So a lot of us who didn't study theology were very confused, but luckily, he he explained it to us and kinda explained that path of salvation and, in that path. So

T.J.: 08:17

Yeah. I would imagine that might be some heavy reading for somebody who is just becoming a a disciple of Jesus Christ. So and you the the group of you had a kind of a mentor through the pastor.

John: 08:33

Yes.

T.J.: 08:34

How long did you guys kind of hop around to different cafes in different locations? And how did you how did GGH arrive to the current location that you're in in Duluth?

John: 08:50

You know what? It's funny is that that the church we're at right now, I think before we came in, it was a Korean Christian radio broadcasting little office. And so, funny because our pastor knew the person who was running that business, and they allowed us to use that space originally to do our discipleship training, before we left that place and they started trying to bounce around. And then, like I said, as we were praying and finding a church place, I think when we started in 2014, we started at at someone's house. Did that a couple of times.

John: 09:30

When we we went to a different thing, it was like a a tutoring business office that we got a chance to, rent. So did that. And then, as we kept praying, one day, like, we saw him, like, a listserv on the on the website that that same office space that we started our desktop ship training, and that that we're using now, the original Korean Broadcasting business left on a different place, and that place came open. And so, we're like, this must be this is definitely God's glory. He want us he wants us to do this.

John: 10:03

And so we just started our official church there.

T.J.: 10:09

And that's pretty typical for a new church development. Oftentimes, kinda hop around in different locations and even different times of the week just kind of settle in. So g g h today, let's talk about the kind of the diversity of of age and what the what the new church development looks like in terms of of, those who participate and those who are attending. Because that makes this group pretty unique, in terms of Cumberland Presbyterians, primarily because of the the age of of those who are part of it.

John: 10:54

Yes. Definitely. So, so the original group of members who started the cycle training discipleship training, they began they started finding jobs and started their careers. Now most of us are just separated all around the place. But we have core members right now.

John: 11:15

We have about 1 student who's attending college, which is the pastor's son. And then we have about 7 or 8 of us who are into late twenties to in the thirties, who are just all working and attending and being part of ministry and working. And then we have just a hand fuel, hand fuel of members who are just in the upper forties, fifties. So I would say 80% of us are in the twenties, early thirties, just young adults. And but the but the church is it's the ministry is continuing because of the passion of our young adults, and their desire for God and desire for ministry.

John: 12:07

And so it continues to churn.

T.J.: 12:11

From the community's perspective, what do you think what stands out about GJH in terms of your your mission and your ministry?

John: 12:25

I would say, I mean, internally, our motto is in Jesus from cradle to eternity. And so we really our main focus is bridging that gap from being that being, a Sunday Christian to how can we carry on that Sunday Christian faith into our daily lives. And so that's what our pastor focuses most of his sermons on. And, as we continue to do our, weekly discipleship training, is to bridge that gap. That's what we say internally.

John: 13:00

In the community wise, we we try to do our best to serve the community. We're actually this the road that our church is located is like a bible belt itself. That's the right there's a church, that's right next to us. And so, it's a blessing. At the same time, we're just in a jungle of churches, but, we still try to serve the church, serve the community of Duluth in different ways by we have an adopted road that we're in charge of.

John: 13:31

And so there's a road that's right next to us that we adopted, that we do on a yearly basis, to maintain and clean it. And so there's, like, a sign that has GJH ministry on it saying that we own that road. And before COVID, we used to do, on a monthly basis, we attended a retirement home that was nearby. And so, a couple of us, we just went down a monthly basis and kinda worshiped with seniors and, you know, kinda shared a little bit about Jesus and just had a conversation with them. Them.

John: 14:02

And they loved it, you know, because, they don't get a lot of youngsters, young adults coming in. And and so that was definitely a blessing. But COVID with start of COVID and retirement especially retirement homes just shutting everything down. That kinda windowed a little bit, and we're trying to find the right time to kinda restart that again.

T.J.: 14:23

John, the GJH Ministries, for me, in English, is quite the tongue twister. So what is it just for me, what is it in Korean?

John: 14:36

So the Korean name is called, Somgim Gue.

T.J.: 14:42

Okay. Yesu.

John: 14:43

It means, so Yesu is Jesus. Mhmm. Somgim is serving, and then is church. So, a church serving Jesus, basically

T.J.: 14:53

Okay.

John: 14:54

Is the Korean interpretation. So we used to go by, Followers of Jesus Church was the English name I think we originally used. But at some point, we started to use GJH Ministry. Don't remember it. I don't remember when and why.

John: 15:11

Sometimes we start we we sometimes we do use followers of Jesus Jesus Church.

T.J.: 15:17

Not critiquing the name by any means. I'm just saying for me, I have to think before I rattle it off just so that because because I wanna put that g and that j together, and then it doesn't sound like either one of them.

John: 15:32

No. And, I mean, no fault to you. A a lot of I think every single person has a tongue twister with that name. I tried to I do not use that name on a regular basis. But

T.J.: 15:43

You mentioned that you were a new Christian as you were entering into college. Yes. Let's let's kinda dive into that a little bit deeper. So did you have any faith encounters? And what was that pivotal moment for you as a young person?

John: 16:03

Yeah. So my mom's side, she has many many brothers. Excuse me. She has she has around 4 to 5 brothers, back in Korea. But 2 of them are actually pastors.

John: 16:20

Her her parents were very, passionate about their Christian faith. She also had a sister who went through ministry or seminary. And so her family sign as Hebrews and faith.

T.J.: 16:39

With your mother growing up in that environment, was she drawn to the faith, or did that kind of, did she want push away from it?

John: 16:53

So that I I know, because of her parents and her brothers and her siblings. When she was in Korea, she had a lot of time with faith, and that was something that was that was very it was a something that she can hold on to life to give her a little more strength and a little more foundation. But as she immigrated to the states and trying to adapt to the new culture and country and and, and trying to make a living that, that kinda diminished a little bit. In the fact that she didn't really have a community of believers, that she could, communicate with. And so I think that kind of commit that kinda pushed her away, made her, less think about less about her faith.

John: 17:43

And so that kinda carried on, and that's why, I didn't really have any idea of, of having a relationship with Jesus or having faith at all. And then kinda lived like that in in 18 years. I was one of those, you know, I was I was a nonbeliever, saying, oh, there's, you know, there's the Christian God. There's all these different kind of religions. That's that's all cool.

John: 18:08

But they're just it's just a religion just like any other religion. It was actually the senior year of of my high school. My dad had a he was he's a nonbeliever as well. And so but, you know, he I'm an only child, so he wanted me to take take me to a place where I can hang out with some of my peers and, kind of build that relationship. And so he had a really good friend at his workplace who was actually a pastor, and who had a church, you know, who's who's leading a church.

John: 18:46

And so my dad was a believer. He was like, hey. You know, why don't you let's let's go out to this church, so that you can build some friends. And so that's how I ended up going to church started going to church. I was like, I kinda kinda denied him for a little bit.

John: 19:01

I was like, I don't I don't know. I mean, church isn't my really thing. But, like, you know, why not? I'll I'll give it a try. And so that was back in, I think it was 2012, Easter Sunday.

John: 19:13

We went to went to church, and then spent time there. And, 1st couple of months, I didn't know what I was doing, you know. I didn't really pay attention to the sermons. I was like, what am I doing here? But I just went because I don't I just I don't like starting something and not finishing it to the end.

John: 19:34

And so I just I just went there, on a regular basis. But it was actually the we had a summer retreat. I think it was sometime in in in the summer, at that church. It was actually a really small church. It was only it was only about 6 young adults there or 6 high schoolers.

John: 19:57

That church, eventually, because of financial reasons and everything, closed down, unfortunately. And that's how I met the next group. But, it was the summer retreat of that of, that year of 2012, where we had a time of just prayer. And remember, I was listening to, Jesus Culture, I Need You More, praise song. That was just that was a song that was just praying.

John: 20:23

They were just playing in the background and that those verses and I think we were reading John chapter 3. And I was just reading John chapter 3, and then I saw John chapter 316. And I just kept reading that verse over and over again for some reason, and it just came at me like like a 3 d, and the song in the background of I need you more, out of nowhere, like, tears just started flowing out of my eyes for some reason. And I started to just like this 18 year old 18 year old at that time, like, just my life just flashed in my eyes for some reason. In that in that moment, I, I didn't even know what repenting was.

John: 21:12

But I just started repenting. I'm like I was like, god, I'm so sorry for not knowing you and for all the bad things that I did in my life so far. I didn't even do anything that bad. Like, I wasn't doing any drugs or anything or anything. And, I wasn't in a gang or anything.

John: 21:29

But I was just like I don't I just felt really bad for somebody. And I was like, god, I'm so sorry for not knowing you at this moment. And thank you so much for, you know, what you said in John 316, for sending your only son, so that we can have eternal life. In that moment, that's when I professed my faith in God and started to to believe him in in in Jesus.

T.J.: 21:53

This was a pretty pivotal moment in your life because you just graduated high school. You're looking towards college and just, you know, weeks weeks away. What was that transformation like? Because your life is drastically changing already without a commitment to faith.

John: 22:14

A lot of my friends looked at me funny. It was like this random guy who was friends with now he's, like, reading the bible on a daily basis, and he's so committed to going church. It didn't create any any drift, from, with my any of my friends, but it was definitely, you know, I didn't even know, like and like like I said in the beginning before I started discipleship training, like, I didn't even know what I was doing. I know I had this experiment experiential experience with God. I remember just going through that and but I didn't know exactly what it was.

John: 22:53

And there was really no one that kinda tracked me and helped me understand what that meant. But what I knew was, my heart was set on God. And, I said on that day that I will follow his word and I'll, you know, guard my faith till the end. And so that kinda led me to go from that perspective of of just living in this world, being a worldly person to someone. K.

John: 23:24

So how can I live my life now with this, faith of Jesus inside of me?

T.J.: 23:30

I would imagine that your head was just full of questions Interesting. About the scriptures, about how to live, about articulating this change in your life. Where looking back, where did you go for places prior to GJH or what became GJH? Where were you going for for answers, for encouragement, for knowledge, for understanding?

John: 24:02

I I really didn't have anyone in my first couple of months. And I remember just coming out of that retreat. Like, I was I was fired up. You know? I was like, I'm gonna be the most avid Christian that anyone can find.

John: 24:16

I was just passionate. But, you know, just like anything that you're fired about, like, because it's just all filled with emotions. After a few weeks, you know, I mean, I was reading the Bible on a daily basis after that. But after a few weeks, as that emotion and feeling kinda diminished, I was kinda lost. I was like and I didn't know what I was doing.

John: 24:41

I don't I, you know, I think at that point, I should've went to the pastor at that time of my of that current church and kinda talk to him about it and about my experiences. But, I was kinda at that time, my my personality was a little timid and shy. And so, like, I didn't wanna go up to him. And my parents, they, you know, they don't they didn't have a faith, and so, like, they wouldn't understand. I thought that they wouldn't understand what I was going through.

John: 25:11

You know, it's kinda like going through puberty again. That state of finding your identity.

T.J.: 25:16

Yeah.

John: 25:18

I think I I try to figure it out. And that's why, when I started, college at UGA, I found a Korean Christian organization. And that that organization was was huge. There was about a 100 to about close to a100 members there. And I think it was there that's, at that place, that's where I met a couple of older seniors, like a couple of the met of the members that I mentioned before.

John: 25:48

And that's where I kinda met them, and they were trying to guide me in my faith. They we we did, on a weekly basis, say bible study, worshiped and prayed. But I think still at that point, I was still very confused. I didn't understand what the bible was saying or anything.

T.J.: 26:09

That's really interesting that it was seniors. You're a freshman. So you had that element of age, and, of course, they have the experience of 3 or more years there at the college. So you already naturally look up to them. But then to complement all of that is as a young disciple, you had people to go to to help answer your questions, and they were willing to do so.

John: 26:37

Mhmm. They were yeah. They were very open. You know, I'm pretty sure, like, they were just put into leadership positions because of their age and and status in high in college. But but still, like, you know, they were passionate about, their faith.

John: 26:55

And I I'm pretty sure they were still at that stage of figuring out their faith, but they really wanted to help me, me especially, help me grow my faith and kinda find my path, so I can focus my road going towards Jesus instead of going in different directions.

T.J.: 27:14

Going back to the late summer of, 2012, as you made a commitment to Christ, can you recall what it was like in terms of how that changed your decision making, your your perception of the world, the relationships relationships that you were making? I know that was a while ago, but what little transformations were you experiencing during that time?

John: 27:42

No. Definitely. Before, I guess since it's my experience as an only child, I had spent a lot of time just thinking to myself, and trying to figure out, you know, where should I go to college, all the decisions, like, where should I live? How how should I live my life? And I did that on my on a regular basis, by myself, just thinking to myself.

John: 28:08

I had my parents, but, like, my personality back then wasn't such the type of person that would just talk to my parents about my questions and difficulties.

T.J.: 28:18

What do you mean, John? I mean, you were you weren't the atypical teenager who communicates with their their guardians, their parents, but they you didn't open up your whole life to them?

John: 28:31

No. No. You know, I was a bad kid. I didn't wanna No. And, you know, I mean, it's typical, but I think just the personality of just being an only child and just and it's not a, just internal internally.

John: 28:49

I was a little more timid and shy, and so, did a lot of thinking to myself. But, starting at that point, after I experienced God and accepted Jesus as my Lord, I started to reach out to the scripture more, and try to find answers to my life and my identity, within the bible. And, you know, but I didn't I didn't find my answers because I didn't know what I was I was reading at the time. But I started to to pray more as well. I didn't really get any answers to my prayers, because I didn't know how to discern God's voice in my life.

John: 29:29

And so I was just praying to God, hey, God. This is what I wanna do. But I had someone that I was talking to now, was definitely a a hope, a sign of hope in my life, to have someone, an eternal external being that was there watching over us and loving us. And I think the biggest thing was I learned kind of what act love actually is. The fact that Jesus sacrificed his son, was the part that really stuck out to me.

John: 30:01

Like, why would someone you know, why would one person, one man, although he's God, do that for all of us that that he doesn't he he hasn't even physically seen? And so that love that kinda stuck out to me. And I was more of a just a personal, let me do everything myself. I wanna do everything for myself. It kinda focus towards okay.

John: 30:25

So now how can I share that love, to others?

T.J.: 30:30

Let's talk more about the mentors that, helped shape your faith in those, early months and early couple years and what that meant to you at that time and how that speaks to your faith now as someone who's been a follower of Christ for, well, more than 10 years.

John: 30:55

Yeah. I would say, you know, I'm really grateful for, the seniors at that, when I was attending college to someone be there to talk about my faith a little more on a personal basis. But it was a lot of bible studying and trying to interpret and translate what the bible, what the New Testament, what the gospels were saying. I think I drew a little bit of knowledge about Jesus' life and and the ministry he took, that he he took part in. But, definitely, the the biggest deciding point or the turning point in my life was, when I was invited into that discipleship training that they, that the group of people were doing with pastor John.

John: 31:44

Because I kind of defined, like, how to live my Christian faith instead of just reading the Bible and seeing what the Bible was saying and trying to interpret what that means. He really helped us live our faith. And when those, you know, when those difficulties because everyone goes to that kinda crisis of faith of, hey. Is what I'm believing in really alive and real? I think when those moments come and those thoughts come into my head, helps me remember that, you know, God is real.

John: 32:22

God is alive, and and I have to guard my faith and continue to guard it. And that kinda helped me, create a path to step more into and becoming more involved in ministry, in wanting to find different ways to evangelize and serve the church and do different ways so that, I can help other Christian believers in my faith as well.

T.J.: 32:52

Ron. Typically, as people enter into college as young adults, Maybe they grew up in the church, professed the faith. It's that young adulthood that we often tend to sort of separate ourselves from from the community of faith and maybe the entire belief system of of Christianity. And here you are, you're the exact opposite of some of those statistics and and general thinking. So what was it like to live on campus or around campus, be on campus?

T.J.: 33:27

And you're hungry to know more about, the faith and practice your faith when traditionally it's at that time that young adults, it may not be so much the center or the core of of their life. Anything interesting that happened to you looking back at that time?

John: 33:51

I was I would say, I was separated from a lot of my peers most of the time. It's it it it was definitely tough, especially with a lot of a lot of my peers that are around. So I was actually doing ROTC, to join the Air Force at that time. And so a lot of them were actually disciplined, very disciplined. And the peers around me, they were all disciplined in their in their faith as well.

John: 34:23

And so, luckily, I had a had a brother in arms who were in their faith as well that, kinda met up on a on a weekly basis as well. But, it it was definitely tough because a lot of the friend a lot of the friends that I was that I grew up with in high school and middle school, was doing something else and then trying to, do schoolwork, finish my degree, DRTC. And on top of that, most importantly, try to develop a relationship with God. On the college campus, was that was definitely was not it wasn't easy. But I would say the 4 to 5 years that I was in college and decisions that I made and the discipline that I had to learn in that time is something that I I look back on.

John: 35:17

And kinda help me reminds me how I got here in my point of life and, how amazing God is and the grace that he's given to me in my life. And I look back on that so that I don't forget the grace that God has given to me in my life.

T.J.: 35:37

Is there a meaningful experience, something early in your faith or something here current or recent that was a great encounter, a great pivotal moment with your relationship with Christ?

John: 35:53

That's a that's a tough one. I would I would just say I would say that that turning point when I actually personally met God for the first time, I would definitely say that is the most pivotal point in my Christian faith, because that's when I accepted Jesus as my lord, and that was just the starting point and the turning point of my life and the starting point of my Christian faith. And whenever I feel like I'm on a on a downturn of my faith or I'm losing my foothold, I kinda look back at that moment of, okay, why am I doing this and how did I get here in the first place? And if I just take a moment, close my eyes, and try to revive that moment, I reminded of of God's grace or God's love for me. And so I think that's just been, I guess, a remembering point for me for me to turn back to.

T.J.: 36:53

You're, currently doing some discernment now and exploring the call to ministry. So let's talk about that

John: 37:02

for for

T.J.: 37:03

a bit. What is that call of ministry? And kinda walk me through, that experience and where leading up to where you are now.

John: 37:15

I just feel like I knew knew at one point.

T.J.: 37:17

That's pretty neat. Excuse me for interrupting. So when I was asking you this question, to see the joy in your eyes and the smile on your face just by me asking about your call to ministry, It can't be translated over a podcast, but I at least had to to mention that. It was just I just saw you light up even more, in our conversation, and I just wanna take note of that. I talked over you, John.

T.J.: 37:46

Please go ahead.

John: 37:48

No. I mean, I know it's it's not gonna be an easy path. I I I you know, I feel like the most difficult path is the path of ministry and ministering. But I knew at one point, like, in my life, like, I would attend seminary, just because of how much I want to dive into the church and serve the church more. I don't know.

John: 38:17

I didn't like that time when I was thinking about a couple of years ago. I just felt like it was just a necessity for me to just, so I can spend more time and and learn more about God. But I think the turning point was I I spend a lot of time in the church right now and serving the church in in different ministries. And so I feel like this was a decision. I'm I'm I'm serving the church already.

John: 38:47

The church is is is a home for me. It's where I find my, happy place, like people call it. It's it says it's it's not easy. Church work in ministry is definitely not easy, and I know a lot of people will, agree and attest to that. But it's at the end of the day, when you're doing ministry, you know you don't do do it for your selfish, or your the joy out of it, for yourself.

John: 39:18

You just do it because because of the love that Jesus showed for us, and and you're doing it for him and for his glory.

T.J.: 39:28

And we were

John: 39:29

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

T.J.: 39:31

And we were talking off mic, about service, service in the military. And then, you know, that the ministry is service as well, a very different type of service. But Mhmm. And there is something about diving deeper. I can see you following through, wanting to know more to be to be better equipped to be that disciple.

T.J.: 39:58

And, you know, you're in the early stages of as a candidate for ministry of Tennessee, Georgia. But it's it's a wonderful stage to be in in preparing for, for ministry and exploring that call.

John: 40:14

The the call for ministry, I feel like I mean, the the one word that really sticks out to me when I think about call of ministry is is servitude and sacrifice. Servitude and sacrifice is is 2 words that I that really stick out to me. But I go back, I go back to that moment where I personally encountered God and a turning point in my life. I think about my life, my 18 years of life before I met God, and how, how lonely it was and how, I was at a point of just low self esteem and was very confused in my life. But that turning point really changed my life around of my perspective of the world and and the hope that I gained out of that.

John: 41:03

And so that was the kind of same servitude and sacrifice that I wanted to make, so that at least one other person can experience the same experience that I went through, by meeting Jesus, help them in that path and and experience that life changing moment, for them as well.

T.J.: 41:22

Yeah. And that's how I try to live out my call. And to be there in those moments of joy as we're learning as disciples and even the the tough times that life can bring us to be available and to be a presence. Speaking of presence, where do you see God's presence in your life right here, right now, presently? We often talk about our faith and in doing so we talk about the past.

T.J.: 41:58

And but when people are are searching for comfort, solace, understanding, grace. It's important for us as Christians to talk in the present tense. So how are you experiencing God's presence today?

John: 42:21

I wanna say I just wanna say, in my daily life, I wanna say Something that we're that I'm trying to do recently is regenerate our lost campus ministry. So I'm I'm currently working at University of Georgia right now. And so I try to find time throughout my work day, to go out and evangelize and try to restart our campus ministry that has been lost since I graduated college. It's tough. It's tough trying to find first talking to college students, because totally different from what I went through and the mindset they have, And trying to talk to people that, you know, I've never met and trying to start a ministry with someone that I've never met before, is definitely difficult.

John: 43:20

But I know that's something that God wants me to do currently, while I'm while I'm here working here.

T.J.: 43:26

Mhmm.

John: 43:27

And I believe go ahead.

T.J.: 43:30

How do you approach someone on campus or in the community and start a faith conversation? What what's working for you?

John: 43:43

Still, for me, I try to use the same method that I used to utilize when I was here, when I was doing campus ministry when I was a student, which is something I learned from, working with through the crusade, organization, because we did a couple of things together with them. They had this survey, like a a faith survey, like a Christian faith survey. I felt like that was very useful because you can approach students and ask them, hey. Do you wanna fill out a survey about, Christianity? And so it asks, it has a couple of questions.

John: 44:22

It has certain questions about just Christianity itself, and it has personal questions, going diving into, like, personal hey. Have you ever experienced God? Do you believe God exists? And that survey has worked because you try to approach college students. Hey.

John: 44:38

Do you wanna talk about Jesus? It's not really effective. And a lot of them, even though even if they are cushion, they got they kinda push away a little bit. But if you approach them in a different method, like, that work for me is a service survey method. Colleges are kinda open to that, because it's kinda unique, and they they like doing surveys sometimes.

John: 45:04

You can kinda tweak it a little bit and say, hey. I'm doing a survey for my class or a study that I'm doing. And that kinda helped me in my my conversation starters. But it's I think, it needs a little bit more work. I think what work works best personally if you're trying to start a ministry is if you have a if you do relationship evangelism.

John: 45:30

Starting with someone that you know first and kinda training them up a little bit, kinda helps as well.

T.J.: 45:39

Yeah. Having that established trust with a friend or a coworker or a neighbor, whoever it may be, can lead to those deeper conversations because you feel safe enough and, you know, your colleague, your friend also is open to to listening. May not agree, but opening to listen because you've invested into one another's lives And it's easier to I don't wanna use the word risk, but it's easier to begin those conversations that could lead to something great and transformative. And it might be a dead end, but it's a whole lot easier if we have a relationship with that individual.

John: 46:27

I totally agree. Totally agree. Yeah.

T.J.: 46:30

Because you can always try again at another time. Mhmm. Yeah. There there are times that we may not be receptive. You know, something's going on in our lives, or we're distracted, or we don't have the we don't have the space that's needed to go that deep to have those meaningful conversations.

T.J.: 46:52

But the relational aspect is is really important. I think it's really important in this day and age. But that's I did want to ask you how do you approach essentially cold on a campus or at least in a public setting, to engage people in the faith conversation? John, do you mind sharing maybe an experience of of that technique and that method and how it led to a a deep faith conversation with someone?

John: 47:28

So recently, I haven't I haven't gotten there. It's been difficult recently. Did the survey, but, like, I have never done I've never gotten the the into the state of where I can have a deep conversation with one of the students. Mhmm. But I would say a couple of years ago when I was actually when I was doing the same method, when I was here, I met 2 college students.

John: 47:55

One of them is is part of our church, But we, I approached them in kind of that method. I'm trying to remember how I'm explaining. So, you know, I I think the conversation that we had is, that I wanted to share with them was, hey. What do you what do you think your life is going from here? You know, because that is the $1,000,000 question for college students.

John: 48:25

You know, you're working on this degree. You're about to graduate. Do you know what you wanna do with your life from from this point on? And I kinda yeah. I use that method, and and the the soonest that I talked to, like, not really sure not really sure what to do, what what they wanna do after they graduate.

John: 48:48

So

T.J.: 48:48

And I think just attempting to have conversations is maybe more than we're already doing, you know, and approaching folks just to have conversation. And maybe faith is a good conversation opener, maybe it's not. It's I think it's gonna depend. Yeah. But

John: 49:12

Definitely, it's difficult.

T.J.: 49:14

Let's shift our conversation over to the church, the Christian church at large, and the Cumberland Presbyterian Church as well. John, what do you think that we are getting right in terms of our encounters in the community? And what do you think that we as a church is missing in the 21st century?

John: 49:41

Wow. There are some big questions. I don't wanna say I don't wanna put my personal thoughts into opinions and saying what what is right and what is what is missing. But I think what is amazing, that the church is doing, and our CP community is doing is that in this day and age, where, you know, there's so many information out there via social media, YouTube, the news, and everyone has their own personal thoughts, and the diversity of thoughts that are that are rising peak days. I'm not I won't personally mention.

John: 50:28

But to in this day and age, I feel like it's to be able to have still a church of community of believers that still have faith in Jesus, in the truth of the bible, not waiting to the right or to the left, is I think that's that's still amazing. Because when I think of this generation, even though I'm part of this generation, is it's it's tough. It's it's a tough day and age to have faith. Because like I said, there's so is so much information out there, so much misleading information out there via social media and everything else. Some of them is some of them some of the information is correct, but some of them information is just so waning, one-sided or the other.

John: 51:15

It's hard to just stay in the middle and be abiding in the truth. What the church is missing I wanna say missing, but more of what I hope for for the church can do in the future is be be the be the salt and light of the world. I know that's vague, but, you know, our our central great mission, great commission is to spread the gospel to the ends of the world. I mean, we definitely can't get every single person, and everyone has their own beliefs, and faith. But in some way, voicing our voicing our voices into the world of just speaking the truth, and, you know, not saying, like not just simply saying, hey.

John: 52:13

Believe in Jesus, because the Bible says so. But, you know, this is, you know, just speaking versus speaking the truth. And when we speak our opinions, basing it off the Bible and, and trying to lead people into that direction.

T.J.: 52:30

I think, inviting people into our lives helps with understanding as well. You know, being able to open ourselves up to allow others to understand or get a better idea of what makes us tick, what is behind our thinking and our actions. And that still allows the freedom for that other person to to inquire more or to back away. I think that would be helpful as well. That's something I've been given thought to in terms of even even in the neighborhood that I live in of how easy it is to just pull into the driveway Mhmm.

T.J.: 53:10

And then go indoors and wave, but I'm waving through windshields and windows or, you know, from mailbox to mailbox. And there are opportunities there for deeper encounters to for them to to know who the next door neighbor is and for me to know that next door neighbor even even more. And I think we create barriers of glass and brick and wood that provides a safety measure. And maybe we're called to be a little more braver than that. I don't know.

T.J.: 53:47

Still working through that one.

John: 53:50

I know. I mean, I I I totally agree. I I personally try I think most of my attention is really trying to start, even with my family family members. Because I mentioned earlier, my parents are still they they don't have faith, yet in Jesus. And so that's definitely been my number one prayer, since years ago.

John: 54:15

And so it's it's kinda difficult sometimes, because they see me spending all this time in the church and and doing all these things. And sometimes they don't really understand, why I do it and what I'm doing it for. I'm not and I'm not the best explainer of things. But that's, you know, that's always been my wish and my prayer. My number 1 prayer is for my parents to first, believe in Jesus and get their faith in Jesus and have this family of of believers.

T.J.: 54:51

What does your family think of your calling into ministry?

John: 55:00

I I I don't they just they just don't understand. They don't know what it I mean, my mom my like I said, my mother has siblings who live in that path.

T.J.: 55:10

Mhmm.

John: 55:11

And they know how difficult it is and the sacrifices that they have to make. Mhmm. And so she doesn't want to see me in that same path, which is understandable. Mhmm. But they just don't because because there is no faith inside of them and the reason for having faith.

John: 55:30

It's difficult for them to understand, basically. And no matter how many different ways I try to explain it to them in my personal terms, I think they just still see it differently. And so, since I can't do it, I'm praying that God and the Holy Spirit will help them understand.

T.J.: 55:52

Well, John, what music and movies and books are speaking to your faith. And they they can be old. It can be old music, books, movies, or something you've run into or you're studying right now. Because you're you're taking some seminary courses right now. Correct?

John: 56:09

Yes. I was. So I was I'm actually, taking a break this semester, because I just haven't the opportunity to do so. But I would say music wise, the one song that really, really helps me remember my faith is the same song, that I was listening to when I personally met God, which is I Need You More, by Jesus Culture, Kim Walker.

T.J.: 56:36

Do you still go back to it even now?

John: 56:39

Yes. From time to time, like, when I feel like I'm I'm waiting a little bit, I try to go back to that song and try to revive that moment. But I would say the the most life changing book for me was, Experiencing God by Henry Black Levy. It's Henry Black Abbey is is a baptist minister, but that if you look into that book and kinda look into the details, it kinda helps. It's it's meant for discipleship training, but it kinda breaks it down into the life of Moses and his faith in God and how, how he started and how it transformed his life.

John: 57:20

And there's just something called 7 realities of experiencing God, of, the relationship of receiving God and that crisis of belief that you go through and overcoming that. And When you obey, you experience God. So it kinda breaks it up like that, and that kinda really helped me, actually practice my faith in my daily life, instead of just learning, information, fundamentals about the bible.

T.J.: 57:46

And how about at, seminary? What's been your favorite course so far? I know this will change as you keep going deeper, but I

John: 57:56

took so I took 2 courses last semester, introduction to a kind of Presbyterian and, history. I wanna say a specific course, just in case the professor are listening. But,

T.J.: 58:10

Well, I didn't say professor. That's why I said course that way.

John: 58:16

No. But I I would say I would say both, honestly. I would say both both courses were eye opening to me, because one, even though I've been in the Cumberland Presbyterian community, I just didn't know anything about it. And so that course, the intro to that course kinda helped me understand a little bit more about, the CP history and and how the CP church came to be in in the state that it is right now. And the and the 3 pillars that we learned about scholarship priority, Those those three pillars have just been an eye experience because I've never thought about it in in that perspective of, in that culture.

John: 59:00

And so, those pillars have been have been kind of shifting, like, have have jumbled in all the information that I knew about God and how I experienced God and has created those 3 pillars into, 3 different themes in my life.

T.J.: 59:16

Yeah. What it's scholarship, piety, and justice

John: 59:20

Yes. Yeah.

T.J.: 59:21

For, Memphis Theological Seminary.

John: 59:23

Yes. Yes. Yeah. So those three pillars, have kinda defined my, I guess, my my fundamentals in faith and kinda put it into those 3 pillars and how I can practice that into my faith. And then just learning about Christian history, and how it began, since Jesus and into the into the Roman Empire and how it's evolved since then.

John: 59:53

I just didn't know, and it it kinda helps me, just think about. And it's it's been a long time since the Christian faith and all the history that it's gone through. And

T.J.: 01:00:04

Yeah. And I and I'm just

John: 01:00:07

in order for us

T.J.: 01:00:08

to be here today. When I think of that way, I just think I'm just one little tiny speck in the timeline of of a particular faith, the Christian faith, and it's just humanity to begin with. Just a little tiny little speck. Unnoticeable. Undistinguishable.

T.J.: 01:00:27

And there's just been some wonderful people throughout the the history of Christianity that have done great things, that have impacted the world and people in great ways, for good ways. And and I'm a beneficiary of that.

John: 01:00:47

I agree.

T.J.: 01:00:47

Yeah. In in Christianity and in the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, It's pretty amazing. John, I got one more question for you. If you could ask God one thing and you knew you just knew that you would get an answer, what would it be?

John: 01:01:05

I think this is a similar question I ask God on a on a regular basis is, you know, I'm just anxious to see what my life looks like in the next 5, 10, 15%.

T.J.: 01:01:16

Yeah. So looking out. Looking out. Yeah. I wonder if we would even recognize ourselves.

T.J.: 01:01:24

Not I don't mean just physically, but like spiritually from a faith point of view, our own thinking, you know, because there's a lot of life to experience between now and

John: 01:01:34

then.

T.J.: 01:01:35

How will it change us?

John: 01:01:37

That's, yeah, that's the question. I don't, you know, I I don't know. I mean, we we always, set these plans for ourselves of where we wanna do, what we wanna do, and where we wanna be. I think I feel like and end of the day, I feel like the god the answer that God gives me every single time is that, don't worry about it. You know?

John: 01:01:58

Where wherever you'll be in 5, 10, 15 years, you're gonna get there. But the most important thing is that, 5, 10, 15 years from now, the most important thing is that you don't lose faith in me, because what you need to be, I'm gonna lead you there, but just don't lose faith in me. And so that's and I wanna say, got it.

T.J.: 01:02:21

Yeah. I like that. Not to get lost into the unknown, but just kinda focus on the relationship that we have now and trust. John, thank you. I appreciate your time.

John: 01:02:34

Thank you so much.

T.J.: 01:02:38

Thank you for listening to this faith journey on Cumberland Road. To support this podcast, subscribe, follow, and share with others. In closing, I wanna read a passage from a book that John mentioned in our conversation, Experiencing God by Henry and Richard Blackaby. People do not seek God on their own initiative. God always takes the lead in pursuing a loving relationship with you. This love relationship is real, personal, and extremely practical.