Jonathan & Carolina Calheiros - God Opened The Door
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God, this is The Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. Today's podcast is a faith journey of 2 people from different cultures and different languages who meet, fall in love, and share the same call to serve God. Jonathan and Carolina Calheiros are both singers and songwriters with 2 released albums. They are students at Memphis Theological Seminary and are members at the Faith Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Bartlett, Tennessee. In our conversation, we get to hear how Jonathan and Carolina meet, how they are experiencing God opening doors for ministry opportunities, and how music is a way of crossing cultures and languages to know God through worship. You are listening to the Cumberland Road Podcast, and here is my conversation with Jonathan and Carolina Calheiros.
T.J.:Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. If you don't mind, this is a first for Cumberland Road where we actually have a family gather together to share their faith journey. If you would, just kind of go around and you can introduce everybody or allow everyone to introduce themselves, and then we'll get a little more in-depth.
Jonathan:Okay. Yeah. So we're so glad to be here today and to be a part of this podcast is a great honor for us. Thank you for having us. And my name is Jonathan, and next to me my beautiful wife,
Jonathan:Carolina, and we have, 3 beautiful children, Aaron, Samuel, and Sarah who are active members in our ministry and who bring a lot of joy in our lives.
T.J.:Excellent. And help me before we started recording, I asked you to pronounce your last name. And, look, I have a difficult last name. Mine is Milanoski. Jonathan, what is your last name again?
Jonathan:Yes. It's Calheros, and it's a Portuguese last name. I was born in Brazil. And, as you well know, Brazil is mainly colonized by people from Portugal, Portuguese, and so, it's kind of a strange last name, different last name, but, yeah. You say Callejeros in Portuguese.
Jonathan:You say Callejeros, but, in English, I I found out that it's easier to say Calheros.
T.J.:But, mine is Malinowski, and in the south, there's not very many. So I understand when it comes to last names. And I don't wanna mess it up, so I wanted you to say it again. So let's jump right into the question that I like to ask every guest is share with me a meaningful experience that you've had with God, and that could be as early as today or could have been in your childhood, but a meaningful experience.
Jonathan:Yes. About this question, you know, for us the most meaningful event, We've had many, many incredible moments with God and but one that I would like to share with today was how Caroline and I met. Mhmm. In 2,005, I was in college at that time. I lived with my mother, and, both of us worked hard, to keep an apartment.
Jonathan:I remember at the time I used to work, you know, valet parking as I'm going to college, and, you know, it was an interesting season of of of my life. And at that moment, I had a dream. I had a dream that I was in Jerusalem, and it was a very, detailed dream where I I I saw the mount what I believe was the Mount of Olives, and I can see the, you know, the city of, you know, the old city of Jerusalem. And and in this dream, I I remember I I recall I saw an angel that would fly over the city, and next to me was a worship leader, and I was just looking at the city. And next day, I I mentioned to my mother, I said, wow.
Jonathan:I had this amazing dream with Israel with, Jerusalem. And, my mother, said to me, she said, Jonathan, just keep that in your heart. You know, God God is talking to you. Just keep that in your heart, and and I did. And, about 2 weeks later or so, I had another dream, And same thing, I was in Jerusalem in my dream.
Jonathan:And this this time was even more descriptive or more details. I saw a home and, there's a hill in front of the of the of this house, and I I saw, this temple, beautiful temple in a very different vegetation. And in the dream, I I I look around and I said, you know, I'm in Jerusalem. In the dream, I would talk to myself and say, I am in in Jerusalem, and I saw how in the house there was, missionaries, people from different parts of the world that I I I saw that they were there in the house. And in my dream, I would say these are missionaries that are here.
Jonathan:And same thing, next day, I came up to my mother and I said, you know what? I had another dream with Israel, with Jerusalem, and I got the same response. Jonathan, God is talking to you. Keep that in your heart. And and, about, I wanna say, a month, 2 months later, I went to a worship event.
Jonathan:It was, of several ethnic groups that came together, many Latinos, that were there from different nations, and and I happen to be leading a a worship team, from Brazil. Mainly members of the worship team were from Brazil. And after I will I finished the time of worship, I was, walking down from the pulpit, and a lady from Colombia, I've never seen her in my life before, she came up to me, and, she said something about my my walk of faith with the Lord. And then out of the nowhere, she said, Jonathan, I think I feel you should go to Jerusalem. And I, you know, imagine I I don't even know her.
Jonathan:I don't know her name, but she said that to me. And, she took my number and we met about, I wanna say, a week or 2 weeks later, and she told me she said, Jonathan, I would like to, pay a ticket for you to go to Jerusalem, and I want you to stay at our house there. They had a house in Jerusalem. And she said, I wanna go ahead and buy a ticket for you. I want you to go to Jerusalem.
Jonathan:So you can imagine what I felt at that moment, right, when a a a stranger, someone that, I had no connection with, She wants to buy a round trip for me to go to, Israel. Mhmm. And, so to make a long story short, I had 2 classes from from college that conflicted with the daytime. I went to talk to the teachers to ask for, the possibility of taking the exam before, the date that he was supposed so I can go on the trip. And both of my teachers, they said, we are Jewish, and we are so happy that you're going to Israel.
Jonathan:So don't worry. We'll take care of that. And and so both of them, allow me to take the exam before the time, and I was able to go to Israel. And guess what? It was there that I had a chance to meet Carolina.
Jonathan:Me from Brazil, I lived here in the States, and she's from Colombia. And we had the chance to meet there in 2,005. So that for us is just an amazing miracle of how we managed to meet each other in in Jerusalem.
T.J.:Let me ask you, Jonathan. Did had God spoken to you or had you had dreams before or was this totally new?
Jonathan:It was not new because, years before, I did had, experiences during my time of sleep. So this was not new for me, but but it was the first time where I had this experience where it was a dream that I have with a location, a specific place, and then shortly after, God works in a miraculous way to provide a way for me to go to to that location. And and not only for us as a testimony for my mother, it's something that she will always remember as well because she she lived through the whole process, you know, and so but that was definitely the, you know, a very unique situation in that sense.
T.J.:Carolina, how long was it before Jonathan told you about these dreams when he felt comfortable enough to say, hey. I think God spoke to me in this way. And what was your reaction?
Carolina:Well, we met there. So, he was talking to everybody this testimony because, really, it was was amazing. I believe, the people that were there, all of us had, like, this, experience that got, took us in a different ways, but it was amazing everything that happened. So we just heard about that, and it was beautiful to see how God, was, like, preparing things. And even our call, like, you know, like a couple, was like a way to to forget to to prepare us for this calling together.
Carolina:So, yeah, what, was something that the first time, I heard it.
T.J.:Okay. And it didn't scare you away at all?
Carolina:No. No. Well, we we can share different experience, like, provision from God. Yeah. It's it's been really amazing how he was providing also in this time.
Carolina:For example, in my case, I'm from Colombia, and, was difficult to be there, or to be like a missionary in in Israel, But it was something, out of our understanding that I get there, and also I had to be like, just for 3 months. But God opened the door, and somebody fell to to giving me a, it was like a donation, that I I I I never knew how was this performing, but, I just found the the enough money to stay there for a semester, for do an open. It's like a Hebrew classes, and to be able to stay there. And that's why I met Jonathan in this 6 months that I was there. So, yeah, this experience, it's really a a meaningful experience for us.
T.J.:So you meet in Jerusalem, but, Jonathan, you have to come back to the United States, and you have to come back to Colombia. So how did you 2 maintain communication? How did you maintain a relationship?
Jonathan:Yes. At that time, you know, that that's before Facebook got big and all of that. Right?
T.J.:So if
Jonathan:you remember, Hotmail had that Messenger, right, that, at that time, that was, our means of communication. I remember that, that's how we we started, you know, a couple emails back and forth, and then, through Messenger, we would talk. And a beautiful story is that I I used to work with valet parking, and I remember I you know, with the tips that I will get, I will go and buy a phone card that I can make calls to Columbia. And, and one gift that I had for Carolina many years later was actually I I put all the cards that I had used for calling her on a ring, and it was just a bunch of cards, you know, stack on a ring, of all the the phone calls that I will make on my way to work and my way, you know, my way home. And, so we tried different ways to to to keep in touch.
Carolina:Each of them were with that verse of the bible. I remember the gift. It's beautiful. So yeah.
T.J.:Moving from this meaningful experience that the 2 of you have shared and you share with God as well, let's talk. Let's continue on this journey. So your relationship blossoms and you grow closer together, and then marriage. So walk walk me through that.
Jonathan:Yeah. So in in 2,006, I make the decision to go to Colombia in December. Now bear in mind, I've never been to Colombia, and I don't know Carolina's family. So that was a huge adventure, just going down to South America and, you know, and just, I remember when we saw each other at the airport, we didn't even remember how we looked like. So you're kinda, like, in your mind thinking, I hope she looks as beautiful as she did in Israel.
Jonathan:I hope, you know, I was right, you know, about, the way she looked kind of a thing. And she's thinking the same way. She's like, I don't even remember how he looked like. And, it it was this adrenaline full
Carolina:or, you know, like, I don't remember. I don't know. It was a step of faith.
Jonathan:It really was. It really was. And, her pastor received me in his home and, which was unique as well. Great, great, guy and his family, they're very special family. So the whole trip there, they received me as a missionary there.
Jonathan:And, about a week later, I asked for Carolina's hands. So, our, relationship as boyfriend and girlfriend really lasted in person about a week, and I asked for her hand.
Carolina:Did her mind too.
Jonathan:Yes. I was quite determined. Yeah.
T.J.:And when did you get married? What year?
Jonathan:Got married in 2,007, 2007, December 29, 2007 in Colombia. It was a very special occasion for both of us. Worship has been such an important part of our ministry as we'll talk in, in a bit about that. But we in our, wedding, we had a chance to sing a worship song together.
Carolina:In the entrance of the In
Jonathan:the entrance. Yes. And so, very meaningful moment for us, and then we're we celebrated not not long ago, 14 years of marriage. So, very happy and thankful to the Lord about that.
T.J.:Let's talk for a few minutes about your, profession of faith or those moments when you felt closest to God and that you had a relationship with God. And either one can start.
Carolina:Well, as as we mentioned, we with our whole life, it's been, like, with these moments. But, I can see that the Lord has always, led me to take steps steps of faith in in situations where I am not in control. But I know that God is so my trip to Israel, it's one of those, how also the Lord took me, sustain me there, our marriage. Jonathan, it's been this step of faith, coming also the 1st years of marriage to the United States. I didn't know, anybody.
Carolina:I I didn't know, Jonathan's family. So, and, for example, returning to Colombia also was this about my faith and definitely living, everything in Colombia and coming to Memphis had been, this experience that had led me led me to believe in in God's guidance and stand have to stand on his word. So I believe that this is something that God also it's, like, challenged me to to trust in him.
T.J.:So the older that you get, the deeper your faith in God is with these different changes in your life.
Carolina:Yes. It is.
T.J.:Jonathan, how about you?
Jonathan:Yes. Talking about my journey of faith, I have a interesting interesting, you know, background in that, and it is that my parents, they were both Buddhist when I lived in Brazil. I grew up in a small island in the south of Brazil, beautiful island. And, my parents were both Buddhist, so they were not practicing Christians. And it was my neighbor, who I used to go to their house very often.
Jonathan:By the way, we were vegetarians. My parents were vegetarians, my brother and I, you know, and and so my neighbors, they're from a region in Brazil that's kinda like Texas. So meat is every day a part of, you know, their food. You you know, they'll have barbecues very often, and they just were meat lovers. And so, not only they got me to eating meat, but also, they invited me to church.
Jonathan:Mhmm. And I remember being a young kid and going to their church, and I just really enjoyed it. They used to put, bible videos for us, and it was a very small church, island church close to the beach. The church was about 2, 3 blocks from the beach, and, just very close knit. People were just so friendly.
Jonathan:So it was just a wonderful experience of going to the church, and I used to go I started going very often. And I remember my dad called my attention one day and he said, boy, you've been going often to to the church, you know, and and kinda talking to me about it. But when I look back, I I see God's hand. One time, I almost drowned when I was a young kid. I I was into the sport of surfing.
Jonathan:I started with my dad and so, one day he he didn't take me. My mom was the one that took me to the beach, and the the waves were were very powerful that day. We had a a cold front from the south that came in and, I was filled with confidence because I used to do it with my dad all the time. My mom, she's like, I don't think you should go in. I'm like, oh, don't worry about it.
Jonathan:I got this, you know, and and I I went in and and I I was drowning. And that is the first time that I can look back and see God's hand because I know that the Lord delivered me that day. The what I can recall is just drowning and then suddenly I'm on top of my board pushed towards the beach. And literally, an angel just picked me up from the bottom of the sea there and just put me on the board. And at one you know, one moment I'm drowning.
Jonathan:Another moment, I'm just laying on my board going towards the beach. And I almost died that day. And a very, beautiful experience, that it's another one of those that my mom remembers as well. And we can talk about it, but, you know, it's seeing God's hand, you know, drawing to him and and, you know, through my my neighbor, the invitation to the church. And the beautiful thing is that, I would like to add this to the testimony.
Jonathan:My mom now, she's the secretary of a church, and she's a follower of Christ. And in my dad in Brazil, it was beautiful to see him going to a a Christian church, later on in his life as well. So, it's beautiful to see God's love and how he reaches out constantly to all of us.
T.J.:So talk about the transition, the change, and the similarities from Buddhism to Christianity as a younger Jonathan. Was it hard? Was there similarities, things that were in common? What was that like?
Jonathan:Yes. So I went to a couple of Buddhist meetings with my mother, and I'll be honest. They were quite boring for a child.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Jonathan:There was a llama that, I think she was from the states that she will come down to the island and then everybody will be sitting on a pillow. And you're as a child, you're kinda like, oh my goodness. You know, just time is going by and they're, not not a very dynamic meeting. You know? And, but my mother, I I think she was looking for an answer.
Jonathan:And, you know, honestly, you know, when I look back, I I just see the turmoil we had in our home and, you know, in their marriage. And and and, you know, and and and later on, when my mom, she came to the Christian faith, you know, she found the answer she was looking for, you know, that she couldn't find in Buddhism. And and I can see that sharp contrast when I was a child, you know, just going to the Buddhist meeting where, you know, people would just be sitting there for a while and lights were very low and, and, you know, and and then I'll go to the church, and there's dynamic in the church. You know, the the church also gave us good food. You know, the they they give us kids.
Jonathan:They made a, a traditional carrot cake with chocolate, very traditional in Brazil. They made delicious carrot cake with chocolate and and, you know, and they so they'll give us food and they have beautiful videos that they will share with us. And you had the community of faith, very strong, and and also a beautiful youth group, the, you know, very close youth group. So the I I saw life. You know, there was life there.
Jonathan:There was, a people with joy and food being shared, and and that just shows us how important the church is, how important having a faith community is because that's something that I did not see in Buddhism and I did not see in the meetings that my mom attended. The church there had this strong community and, sharing faith in such a tangible way and meaningful way. You know?
T.J.:Carolina, now your coming up years as a child and a youth were different than Jonathan's. So talk about your household and your faith and how that impacted you as as you got older.
Carolina:Okay. Well, okay. I I was born into a Christian family with very active parents in church at church. But, unfortunately, they did they divorced when I was 12 years old. And several years passed, and I got to the point where I no longer went to church nor did I believe in in God.
Carolina:So I was, already studied at the university, and and it was at that time that God, through an invitation to a youth event, took me in an, you know, in this inexplicable way. And I felt that he was inviting me again to believe in him and to serve him. And and from there, my life is being, like, around him. So, later, my dad and my mom also start to, go to church and then, my sister. So it's been amazing how, God is at control of these situations.
Carolina:And sometimes we believe that, well, there is no hope, but then, God is working through these moments of maybe, desert could be. And, and suddenly, it's like this invitation or this moment and where you say, okay. God is being behind all of this that is happening, and and now it's the time. So with me, happens like that. I really have this moment where I say, well, I saw my parents working so hard.
Carolina:You know? Like, they had, these small home groups in in our home or in in different homes. And and they they were very young people at that time. But, yeah, something happened and and you, as a child, you don't understand, you know, like, why if they serve God, happened this with with our family. So, but but, yeah, God is it's it's beautiful to see how it was working in us and now believe that, everything works together for our good.
Carolina:So we can see, my sister or also my little sister, you know, serving God and and my my dad also commit to, serving him, and and and it's really beautiful. And the the experience now with Jonathan, as a couple, in this call that we have. So, yeah, this is my my story.
T.J.:Both of you are wonderful musicians and singers. Did that come naturally, and how do you see that as part of your ministry and discipleship?
Jonathan:Yes. In my case, I grew up in a very musical home. My brother, he's a guitarist, and, I recall when I was growing up just hearing him play his guitar and and eventually he he gave me a couple lessons on on the guitar when I started it. And, so music, had always been there. I remember my dad, he used to like to put music as he cooked in the kitchen and my grandmother, you know, she would throw in some dance steps every now and then, my dad too, and they would just and they would just listen to various styles of music from Brazilian traditional music to, you know, a song from music from the US and, you know, and music from different places.
Jonathan:So that was something that, also we we had a variety of music. And, in our ministry through music, it's interesting how we have done the same thing. We have not married a single style of music, but we have, you know, in our first album that we recorded, we have, an African style of music in there, with a lot of drums. We have, gospel, you know, with a a lot of bass and, gospel oriented song. And then I have Bolsa Nova, which is a very Brazilian style of music.
Jonathan:So we have some Bolsa Nova there, But then we have more of a piano classical song with, you know, singing. So we've we've tried to incorporate different sounds, into our music, which also represents the different cultures in our family. You know, Carolina has a beautiful heritage, you know, from Colombia. And so recently, we recorded a song with our families that is from the, an African style of music from the Pacific Coast of Colombia that is called Curulao, and we recently, you know, recorded a song with that style. And, so that that, you know, that aspect of of of variety and having different cultures within our music has been important for us.
Carolina:Yeah.
T.J.:So go ahead, and if you don't mind, establish a little bit. You are musical professionals. You have recorded music. Kinda help fill in the blanks for those who don't know or may not know.
Carolina:Well, we well, we are not, professionals. We didn't study music, but it's our call. And since we were, child, we were, surrounded by music as Jonathan told you. And in my case, I remember, when I was a child, my mom singing in the, meeting groups, and she was the, worship leader. So, and I remember with with, yeah, these these times.
Carolina:So when when I start to, go to church when I was youth, I start to serve in our, worship, ministry. So it it's been yeah. I think it's been our life. It's it's it's the experience also that we have, I can say to know God also. So, yeah, I don't know if you wanna add something.
Jonathan:Yes. Something for us that, has been beautiful through worship is just see worship as a moment to experience God, to touch his heart. And, so not, you know, let let's just sing a couple of songs and then we'll be ready for the word. It's really taking that moment to connect with God and to, you know, touch his heart like I said. And so through our music, we have sought to through the songs we record that people would have this connection, with the Lord.
Jonathan:I remember one time in Columbia, we wrote a song on Habakkuk chapter 5 when, Habakkuk says, even though, you know, the the fig tree bears no fruit and then he talks about this whole scenario and he said, still I will bless the name of the Lord. And and I remember us going through a difficult time in Colombia, you know, when we decided in 2013 to go live in Colombia, it was a huge change for us. Huge huge for our family. I I I feel that the first couple months when we got there, it was just like, you know, for example, when you have the olive and the olive is pressed, you know, and and and it goes through that pressing moment. And at the time, you don't understand.
Jonathan:You said, wow. You know, this this is this really hurts. This really, moves with every fiber within you. But, you know, many times, we want to see God's glory in our ministry. We want we want to see God move powerfully in what we do in ministry.
Jonathan:But really, if you I'll I'll use the example of the menorah in the tabernacle of Moses. The only part of the tabernacle that provide a light for the tabernacle was the menorah. And the interesting thing is that the element used to light the menorah was the olive oil. And, and and so whoever saw the light in the tabernacle, it's easy to see the light and appreciate the light, but to get that light, some olives had to get pressed and, and had to go through some beating there before, in a process to be able to shine forth the the light. And so I believe the same holds true in our ministry, in our lives that we go through processes that, that get the best oil out of us, and that's how it was for us during that time of ministry.
Jonathan:So I remember how that song that we wrote couple years before, and now we're like, boy, this song sure is for us, you know, as we're going through this, you know, you know, and just, these songs being a point of connection of people with the Lord, but also in their walk of faith to be songs that will minister to their hearts and that would connect people to to the Lord.
T.J.:Yeah. I love your that pressing analogy and just seeing your face as you're describing, that it must have really been a tough time for the 2 of you in that season of your life. So our journeys have us moving and traversing in some form of ministry. Let's talk about what's happening in your life and in your ministry right now.
Carolina:Okay. Right now, something very interesting is is happening in our ministry. We had always ministered with my with with Jonathan through worship. But since the the pandemic began, our children have joined this mission. Right?
T.J.:Mhmm.
Carolina:So they are involved in church in in our lives and our Facebook lives and in composing also with us and also at events that we had. So it is beautiful to see them share Christ, through their talents.
Jonathan:That's right. It's been such a a a beautiful element. And and just to give some background on this, when we lived in Colombia, we had a a band that we would go and, you know, and we worship at youth events and church is that would invite us, and they will come up they'll come over into our home, and we'll be rec you know, practicing until late hours in the evening and just getting ready for events, and and and and that was our band. But when we got here in Memphis, suddenly we're like, wait. We don't have a band anymore.
Jonathan:You know? All the musicians stayed there in Columbia, and so, during the time of the pandemic, you know, our both of our sons, they were already playing the guitar. They started at a young age in Colombia. And so I said, well, you know, in Colombia, they they were both in the conservatory learning with the classical guitarist, but I said, you know what? We don't have the conservatory here.
Jonathan:There's a pandemic going on, so guess who's gonna be your teacher? You know? But, I I will be the classical guitar teacher now, I guess, you know, and and I started, practicing with him, and we just saw the hand of the lord in such a powerful way moving in their lives. You know, I'll be showing my son, you know, skills and and and, you know, and and some guitar theory things. And then in a couple months, I'll be looking at him, and I'm like, boy, you're playing better than I do.
Jonathan:You know? You you you you're going farther than I have, you know, and it's just an exciting thing to see them grow and, you know, and just that gift there. And, just to to give an example, we were we were we were writing a song together, my wife and I. We're we're on our 4th day of writing, you know, songwriting. And this morning, you know, I'm I'm going through the lyrics of the song, and we're putting the the chords in and going.
Jonathan:And my oldest son is like, daddy, you should add this phrase here. And and he just jumps in, and he's like, you should add this phrase here. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, no. No. No.
Jonathan:No. No. We're just gonna keep as it go on. You know, I I think we got a good structure. I was like, you should consider adding that that phrase there.
Jonathan:And then I tried it, you know, adding that phrase there. And I'm like, boy, that sure sounds good. You know? And and I'm like, you know what, Aaron? I'm gonna go ahead and keep that that that phrase in there.
Jonathan:And and so now he is, you know, in the process of writing music with us, worship music. And and at church, you know, my my son now gets most of the compliments on the guitar play. People come up to both of us and like, Aaron, great job on the on the guitar today, and, you know, and so it's it's so beautiful to see the hand of the Lord, raising them up, and, and and and the Bible teaches us, you know, teach the child the way they should go when they'll when they grow, they won't depart from it. And to see them walk in our footsteps and and continue this this walk of of leading in worship and through music, has been a beautiful element within our ministry, to see them participating with us. Not only events within the church, and in our Facebook lives, they participated with us many times in the Facebook lives that we do in our ministry, but also in events, such as we had one recently, a Christmas event at Casa Teatro, which is the only Latino, theater that I know of in Tennessee.
Jonathan:They invited us for an event for the community and they wanted us as a family to share, Christmas songs for this event. And it was a beautiful experience because this is an open event to the community. And here we had the opportunity to share Christmas carols and and and to to share our faith through music to an open event, outside of the church. And and and that is a a new element for us that we want to, you know, continue in this new year to, 1, if you allow me to, I'd like to add this here. One of the goals we have for our ministry is to begin to do events in open air where we could take our guitars and our speakers, our music, and just share music with people and to share our faith that way where we can, play some of our original songs and, that we have been writing as a family.
Jonathan:And through that experience in between songs, let people know that God loves them and, and that we just love them too and that we're appreciative of the opportunity to share music with them. So we're in the process of of getting to do that and starting this project of going to parks and different locations and just share our music and and and do that in a way that we can share our faith through music.
T.J.:So let's talk about what your ministry is today, and how did you end up in Memphis, Tennessee?
Jonathan:Okay. That that's a that's a wonderful question, because it gives you an opportunity to glorify God once again because it all comes back to him. When we were in Columbia, God spoke to us, through various ways. We kept track of 17 confirmations that God gave us through different means of us coming back to the states. One of them was remarkable.
Jonathan:One day, I had a dream that I was in the United States, and in this dream, I was driving a car and I'm I'm seeing, you know, area here from the states, and I woke up and I told Carolina, I said, I had a dream with the United States this night. And, and we made a prayer because at that point, we already had made a decision to come back to the states. Now bear in mind that we were serving at our local church there. We we had a home group with over 40 people that were coming to our home group. We served in the worship team.
Jonathan:We lived in the countryside. We had our chickens, our garden, and we were pretty settled. And then God came to us and and he said it's time to come back to the States. And so, I had that dream, and we were really trying to make a decision between Florida, Texas, and Tennessee. And, you know, when you make one some of those frustrated prayers that you're just a bit frustrated, you we wanna you want an answer.
T.J.:Yeah.
Jonathan:And and that day, I told Caroline, I said, I really wanna know if we have to go to Florida, Texas, or Tennessee, and we made a prayer, and I said, Lord, please confirm to us. We wanna know where you would like for us to go, Texas, Florida, or Tennessee. We made a prayer and within, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, we were in church. It was Sunday, Sunday morning, and we got to church. The worship team is ministering and, a lady from our church, a woman of prayer, an intercessor at our local CP church there in Popayan, she came up to me and she said, I have something for you.
Jonathan:And when this lady tells you that she has something for you, you know it's gonna be meaningful because everybody she she she's known for being a woman of prayer so you know that, you know, when she says that you're expecting for something special. And so, suddenly, she comes with a brown bag, and she hands me a brown bag. And, you know, of course, I couldn't wait till I get home to see what's in the bag. So pastor is starting to preach, and I'm looking in the back to see what what what she's got there for us. And when I opened the bag, the first thing I see is a key chain from Nashville, Tennessee.
Jonathan:And bear in mind, she's never been to Nashville, Tennessee. And then in the bag, there's a card from the 1st CP church that was, that that started here in Tennessee. There's a a card from the state park where, that chapel was located, and then there's a couple of of cards in that bag and they're all from Tennessee. Nothing else, just 4 items from Tennessee in the bag. And I'm looking at Carolina like, didn't we just pray for a confirmation, and and and she tells us, she said, Jonathan, my family, her daughter came to the states and they visited Tennessee, and she said, I've kept this brown bag for 2 months in my house, and I said, today is the day that I gotta give them this gift that my daughter brought for them.
Jonathan:Now bear in mind, she she went to different locations in the state, but in that bag, she only kept a couple of items from Tennessee, nothing else. And after 2 months, she decided that was the Sunday to give it to us. So it was very, amazing how that happened. And so we left everything we had in Colombia. We came to the states with 5 bags, no job secured.
Jonathan:My mom received us in South Florida, and I I found a job at a store selling sandals. I sold, Brazilian sandals of all kinds and styles. Mhmm. And, I was there for about 2 months, you know, working there preparing for our coming to Tennessee. Finally, we rented a Ford F150, put all of our belongings in the back of the truck, and drove from Florida all the way here still without having a job secured.
Jonathan:We didn't have an apartment secured, but we knew that God called us to come here. We knew that he had a purpose for us, so we just took a step of faith. And when we look back now, all we can say is that God has been faithful. He has been awesome as he always has been in our lives, and, it's been an an amazing journey.
T.J.:Carolina, how did you get 3 children and 2 adults' belongings in five bags? And how did you keep the family together in this major transition?
Carolina:Well, I believe that, God, since the beginning, it's been working with us in this way, where, we really believe what he says, and we give this step of faith. So this was one of those moments, those challenge moments that, wasn't easy to leave all my family. We were living in a beautiful, countryside with all my family, like, a neighbors. So, yeah, it wasn't easy, but but we knew that, God has something doing here. And we when we came here, we just say, okay.
Carolina:We have to, embrace God's purpose. And and sometimes God is, like, I don't know. It's like giving us these, verse of the bible that we can, like, just embrace and and continue. And sometimes our kids also, miss everybody miss, things from Colombia. But we we're seeing how God is moving through this season.
Carolina:So, I believe that, we have to all the time also, share with them with our kids and and each other this this this, thinking in in in what is God is doing, and and, you know, I go forward. And this is something that, we love also from from God. That all the time he, surpasses our understanding, but also our, our thoughts and and his love all the time embraces him. Yeah. It's been beautiful, this journey.
Carolina:Sometimes we say, like, it's, this, I forget in in English. So you're Spanish. The Gats Adventure. Yeah.
Jonathan:Yes.
Carolina:So, it's it's been this Gats Adventure, and and we love how God show us step by step, our, yeah, our our our life.
T.J.:Carolina, you and your family, you land in Memphis, Tennessee in 2019. And what does your ministry and your family's ministry look like today? What are you guys doing, and what are you preparing for? What is what do you think the next steps are that God has for you?
Carolina:Well, right now, we with my with my our kids, we are doing homeschool. And we know that, they have talents and gifts from God, and we are empowering them also because we believe that, God is calling us as a family. So, every time that we do a song, a composition, or or go to through an event, to talk, about God. It's something that as a family, it's been open this, doors for a minister. Right now, we are at seminary, both Jonathan and I, and we believe that this is something that God also has for us, with the music, but also as a minister.
Carolina:So I believe that, we are preparing us for something that it's special. And there's a word, from the bible that says that, in Exodus 34 so it's
Jonathan:just a 3410, God says, because it'll be an awesome thing that I'll do through you.
Carolina:So, all the time we say, okay. We'll be living this for family, and we're gonna prepare us for it. We know that in these times also, pandemia, and in these times that, we are being, there there is so many stories that we can hear in those days, happening also with with immigrants, and and something that it's a call for us, I believe, it's, has has to be with this. So, with the language, with with the faith that God has given us through the, our life. So I I believe that this has to be something also with them.
Carolina:So, we are expecting in this direction, and and we pray that, God continue to lead us step by step.
T.J.:So what is life like as a seminary student for you?
Carolina:Well, for me, it's been a challenge because of a very language, but thanks God for Jonathan. He's been helping me a lot. It's been a challenge also because, I believe sometimes we are, like, in a bubble in our church and and, you know, like, in our own culture. And to be exposed to so many, different thinkings, it's beautiful because it affirms you also in what you believe, but also led you to think in different, ways that other people think. And, yeah, it it's been a challenge, but at the same time, I think we are growing more in this season, and and we we believe that it's this process is the the perfect will of God right now.
Carolina:So we are doing our best in everything. And yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. I your schedule must be full because you are a student. You have 3 students. Well, all of you are students, but you have 3 children who are in school. Both of you are in school.
T.J.:Life is all about school, I guess, in your household.
Jonathan:Yes. And I wanna add to that that I recently was hired as a math teacher, high school math teacher. So that is has been a new element for us as well, because we, you know, in this profession, you know, it's not the kind of a job that you finish and then you're you're done. You can just go home and focus on something else. There's a lesson planning, organizing classes, but, you know, it's such a joy because honestly, it's another testimony of of God, how he works in in marvelous ways because I'll tell you something about me.
Jonathan:Math is not my thing. When I was in college, I literally look for a career that had zero math on it. And when I found one, I said that's the one for me. And Carolina knows that I'm not, you know, into math. It's it's I I enjoy reading.
Jonathan:I enjoy music, writing. And when I was offered the position to work at this school, the principal at the end of the call, she says, oh, by the way, you be a math teacher. And, you know, I I I'm sitting there and I'm just like, okay. Math. Alright.
Jonathan:But the joy here is is that math is the excuse for me to be there because the school where I worked at where I worked at most all of my students are immigrants, and they've been here for only a few months. So it has been a beautiful experience to empower them and to give them tools and, that that will help them succeed here in the states. And they come from different walks of lives. Many of my students, they came here to the States in very difficult ways, and they went through difficult situations, some of them traumatic situations. And so to have the the privilege to empower them, to encourage them, to to see the beauty in them.
Jonathan:So many of my students, for example, they speak a indigenous language and, Mayan languages as mum or Akatek. And, and to have the chance to even learn with them, you know, I'm learning a couple of mum words here and there and and just connect with them with their culture and then see the beauty in diversity. It it's such a powerful thing. And I believe that one of the reasons I'm there is because my wife and I, we feel such a call for an intercultural ministry. I I believe that that element, it's something that is so important for us to have, this intercultural experience within the church where so much can be learned from each other and we can grow so much, seeing each other's walk of life and walk of faith.
Jonathan:And so I'm already having such an experience about that at the school. And, so that that is another element new element for us at this time.
Carolina:Yeah. So listen. Okay. Sorry. Let me just
T.J.:that's so funny. Go ahead, and then I'll I'll ask my question. Please go ahead.
Carolina:No. Okay. Thank you. Something that I wanna add is that, for this purpose, we believe that, music is all it's also a door that it's open these intercultural experiences. So through music, we believe that can reach, also different cultures.
Carolina:And and this is something important for us. It's like, God, calling us to worship through music, but also the music as a tool for this purpose. Yeah.
T.J.:And so my question is kind of a side tangent, but in in your mind and from your experience and perspective, do you think that math and music both are kind of universal languages that cross all kinds of different barriers that that we as human beings often put up? Is that a way for us to be able to communicate and speak with one another and relate to one another? Since you're the math teacher, and I'm like you, I avoided math as much as possible. So, really, you could answer this in any way and I would believe you because I'm not gonna inquire because I just don't like math.
Jonathan:Yeah. You know, about math being something that it it that common, you know, something universal is something that just the other day I talked with my students about that. You know? If you look if you look into it, it's interesting how math is everywhere. In something as simple as a game of chess, different plays are are combinations that can be explained through math, and that's why you can have a computer play a game of math and probability and, you know, and and when you look at distance and and and so many things, it just every day to day transactions, you know, with money require math, and so, having the the chance to teach them math and and seeing that point of connection that, you know, that they they're eager to learn, they see the importance of it, and, and they come with with this desire to learn has also opened the door for me to empower them and to teach them, you know, about credit, for example, you know, and how to build up credit and doing a pep talk with them about believing for a future home of being having the chance to be to buy their own home and to to help them see that it is possible to have your own business.
Jonathan:And that, you know, regardless of what was your experience as a child or where you grew up or maybe what your family members said to you or the limitations that you saw when you were growing up that, with faith and hard work, you can see these things that you dream of in your life happening in in in, you know. And so, I've I've had this beautiful experience of just every day having these opportunities to empower them and to share the faith with them even as I'm teaching math and in having this point of connection there.
T.J.:And music, how is music a language, a universal language?
Jonathan:Yeah. You know, music is so amazing how it connects people. You know, we recently did an event at the Dixon Gallery, you know, Gardens, that we were invited to play a Christmas, Fiesta event there. And, there's people from different regions of the world there. Honestly, at first, I thought it was gonna be mainly Latinos that were gonna be at the event, since that's the way that, it was presented as a Latino event, but I was, very happy to see people from everywhere that that came to enjoy the music and and as we shared a couple of songs, original songs that had a very tropical rhythm to it and a lot of, percussion that we played and just seeing people enjoying it and clapping their hands and just really, connecting with us.
Jonathan:It just shows you how, music is so powerful,
Carolina:you
Jonathan:know, to touch the hearts and, and to really, bring hope to people. And so I feel so privileged that we have this blessing as a family to share music with others. And in in in between songs, we would share something with the people there. And and so, it's really special to see how he brings different cultures together, and he provides an opportunity for us to connect.
T.J.:We're at the beginning of a new year. Where do you see god working in this new year and in this world that we're a part of?
Carolina:Well, I think he he's working and showing that he's present in the midst of what is happening. He's continued to show his love and enable us to demonstrate that that unconditional love through our calls too. So I believe he's preparing people to be, his hands, and even, we can maybe think he's not working. He is doing great things, as Christians and also as ministers. We we have to believe that, and we and that's why we continue to, preparing us for it.
Jonathan:Yes. It it's a great question, and we have to be always, willing to to see this in the details as well. Sometimes we want God to speak with that thunder, but many times God is whispering to us and we have to be in tune and connected, you know, to to see that the beautiful way in which God speaks to us in the way that he works. We know that all that is happening, you know, with the pandemic. We know that God didn't cause that.
Jonathan:I truly believe that as human beings, we're just not caring for the planet as we should. You know, in so much going on in in in in our care for the planet and I and I, you know, we understand that that that God is not, you know, this did not happen through God, you know, we know that this is a clearly human mistakes errors of us not caring for the environment and we're seeing the situation. But we it's comforting to see that in the midst of all of this that is happening, God is at work and God is moving the hearts in bringing people to him. We saw this in our family. To give an example, our family in Colombia, you know, we had many members of the family that they have a call, to serve God.
Jonathan:They they they have this gift and, and but it was pretty much dormant. They were kind of a little bit distanced from the church and during the season of the pandemic, we were able to connect with them through Facebook. We started doing our Facebook lives, and then suddenly and I'm telling Caroline, I'm like, boy, isn't that your uncle? And then I'm like, isn't that your aunt that is connecting with us today? And then I'm like, man, look at your cousin.
Jonathan:You know? He's connected today too. And then suddenly, most of the people in our Facebook live is Carolina's family connecting there with us, and then soon we started meeting on Saturdays, early in the morning. We'll have a time of fasting and prayer and then her family started connecting with us every Saturday and we will, connect early in the morning and have a time of devotion and we'll pray together. And, and just to see God working through them and develop their faith and and and connect them, you know, again, with that calling, with that that gift.
Jonathan:And, and now we have a vibrant group that we meet with that, you know, it's it's just willing to pray and to seek God together, and and we do it online. We do it, in in a very, relaxed way I would say they're all in their home and maybe they're drinking a cup of Colombian coffee, you know, as we're talking and, and reading the Bible together and we worship and, you know, just just a home group that we connect and and we have a wonderful time in God's presence. So in the midst of all of this that we're saying, you know, we have to see that God is working, that God is touching the hearts, and he's moving in a in a mighty way. You know, I remember one time in Colombia that, I was at a hotel in Santander, which is a city about an hour and a half from our home, and I used to have to wake up pastor early in the morning and and it was cold. In our home where we lived it was cold in the morning, and I will have to drive my car to, the gas station, and I'll leave my car there at a gas station, and then I'll have to walk all the way to the place where I'll have to take the bus and take an early morning bus to get to something there.
Jonathan:And this on this occasion, I had to be there for 1 week. And during this week, I was at this hotel, small hotel, very humble hotel by myself, and, and I remember with Carolina and a group of people we were studying the book of Ruth. We were studying in the book of Ruth and, and every day early in the morning 5 a. M. We will wake up and just pray and and share a devotional on the book of Ruth.
Jonathan:And you know and there in that hotel room by myself, you know, small hotel room, I from what I remember only had 2 little small windows in that that room and one painting on the wall very humble little room with that one painting on the wall and one day after days and days you know of you know I guess you know we started on Monday this was like Wednesday or Thursday We're studying the the book of Ruth and and Ruth and Naomi and and reading about them carrying the the the, you know, the produce of the land and working with the field and and telling us the story, everything that is happening. And then one morning as we're praying and reading through the book, I lift my head up and I look finally at that painting that was there all these days that I didn't really care about. I didn't even look at it. Finally, I look at the painting and to my surprise, there's 2 ladies. They're out far they're out in the land, and they have sheaves of wheat in their shoulders.
Jonathan:And when I look at that, I'm like, Ruth and Naomi have been here with me in this room this whole time, and I never realized that. You know, it's just a perfect painting of the book of Ruth right before my eyes as I'm studying God's word. So in this moments where we feel alone, we feel like in, you know, that we were just in isolated in situations. It's so important to see God and to see him working even in the midst of difficult moments such as these.
T.J.:Carolina, as a mother and a wife and a person in ministry and a student in ministry, what ideas, what hopes do you have for the church?
Carolina:Well, if you can give me a meme a moment. Sure. Okay. Wow. Well, I believe, as a mother, we have also this challenge to guide our children, to, you know, to like, they can embrace and love God and get purpose in in their lives.
Carolina:But, also, I believe that, we are calling to to a to a to a call. And sometimes we can see that there is so many things happening, but, I believe that God is able to, you know, to to help you and to to fulfill everything in in your life and to give this state by state, step by step. So I believe that, everything that is happening right now, it's been riding for the, with the hand of god. And I believe that, this is something that comfort me, and sometimes I can say well, Jonathan can say that many times I've been say, I don't I don't know if I gonna make it maybe in the seminary or maybe, with my kids in different subjects. But at the end of the this season or at the end of the day, always God give us this victory.
Carolina:So I believe that, God is at control of all the, call that all of the things that is he is calling us. And and sometimes, for me, I have to just give a one step step of a time. Mhmm. Yeah. And and not to, you know, like, be the big mountain that I have to climb up, but one step of a time, it's just enough to continue in when I look back, I I can say, like, Jesus, I I don't know how you know, we just did this, but we did it.
Carolina:So, this is something that, you know, it give me, the the straight to to continue in, as a student, as a professor teacher, and and and mother and and wife and also, minister. So so it it's been beautiful to see that it's not in my capacity, but it's in God's hand, and and he is the one who have to, you know, like, he he is here, his hands, in this situation. Yeah.
T.J.:As somebody who has worshiped in different places in the world and has led worship in different places in the world, what aspirations do you have for the church? Is there any anything that we can learn from worship experiences in other parts of the world? Is there anything that you have drawn that has spoken to you that you have taken and shared in other places?
Carolina:Well, this is a beautiful question because, I believe that God, made cultures also to see, you know, like, the beauty of his creation. Everybody is so different. We used to worship in Colombia, so different that we, do here in the United States. And we are, learning in every step. And also, yeah, I think every culture has this this beauty, and this way to to connect with God.
Carolina:Sometimes, if I can be sincere, I just wanna, you know, like, our in our culture, it's it's very different and maybe so passionate. And sometimes I just wanna be like this in in yeah. But but I also understand that that, in the stillness or in the in the place where you just, sing a a beautiful hymn and to be just connected that way, it's also something that God received so, with so power, you know, and and I I've been learning. But also, I believe that that we are here. It's part of show the other people, this multiform, could say, of God's creation and how we can worship God in a different way.
Carolina:So, I can say that, our lives also can be an example of a different way of of worship here in the United States. Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. There's different expressions, but to the same God when it comes to our worship and our study and our fellowship as well.
Carolina:Yes. Yes.
Jonathan:It is so true, and it's so important to understand that because sometimes we we we we think, oh, this is the way you do it. And, and this is the best way to worship God, you know, or or this is the ideal way. And and we have to be so careful with that because God created the cultures and the different cultures and nationalities and the flavors, you know? And, and and as worshipers, it's so important for us to appreciate this ethnic diversity in the different styles of worshiping God, you know? And like Carolina was mentioned, you know, we have learned to worship God with drums and clapping the hands and you're crying there your hands are moving and you're just having this passionate expression as a church and like you know like we did in Colombia where we would have even a marimba being played, you know with Pacific, African style music being playing at the church and a dance team dancing in the church as we're worshiping, but we have also learned to worship God through a hymn and a piano.
Jonathan:And, just standing there and saying, wow, these lyrics are so deep. You know, there's so much of the scriptures in there and just having a chance to look through that and sometimes, you know, just looking at a song and say, boy, that that's a confession of faith right there. I mean, that's, you know, that's the the the gospel in one song and you're just very, neatly written and you and and so you appreciate these different expressions of of faith and of worship. And and and if you allow me, I I wanna touch really quickly on your question about the church at this time, and and I think that that there's a key here for what we're talking about in regards to that and which is that even companies nowadays, they're realizing the power there is in diversity, in ethnic diversity within companies. They're understanding that when you have a group of people that they're all from the same culture looking into a a problem, they kind of tend to look kind of like the same way.
Jonathan:Right? So they look at kind of like the same perspective. But when you have a company that has people from different ethnic backgrounds, someone from Colombia might look at the problem completely different and they will they will say, you know, what if we do this and and we just do this with this product and then suddenly great ideas come from that. And I think that's God's intent for the church that when we come with different cultures to worship God, there's such a deep connection there. There's such an enriching experience, but also the problems we see in our community when we have this ethnic diversity within the church, this intercultural experience within the church, it allows us to see the problems in our society in different angles and perspectives.
Jonathan:It's one thing to hear about immigration issues from one ethnic group. It's a different thing when you have someone from, let's say, a country like, you know, where some of my students came from and to hear their perspective their perspective on the topic, the struggles they have gone through and to hear what they have experienced and now suddenly you you you have a whole different perspective on a topic and you're like, wow, you know, I didn't see it this way and and so I believe that at this season, we're going through, there is such a need for intercultural faith experience where we can come together to worship God but to also share our stories to to communicate and to see our perspectives on how our life has been and our faith journey. I think that is so enriching. And when we look in the Bible, you know, look at the case of, you know, Philip with the eunuch, and they're from 2 different cultures, but they find in God a passion and and and they connect through the scriptures in a beautiful faith experience happens when they come with the heart to seek God and to know God.
Jonathan:And and I think that with these struggles, with these situations we're seeing these days, there is such a power in cultures coming together to worship God and to also together, serve God in bringing, you know, ministering to these situations that we see nowadays.
T.J.:You 2 have shared a wonderful, wonderful faith journey. How can folks continue to follow your your studies, your preparation for ministry, and your continuation of ministry?
Jonathan:Yes. We will love to connect with all of you that are listening into this podcast today. You can find, more information about our ministry in our website is johnnycarroll.com. That's j0ny karo.com. We're also on Facebook.
Jonathan:Our page on Facebook is Johnny Carol praise. So facebook.com/johnnnycarrollpraise. And we're also, have our music on YouTube, under Johnny Carroll as well. And, yeah, if if you would like to send us a message, anything, you could contact us through those pages.
T.J.:Wonderful. And then folks will be able to sample your music, listen to your latest recordings, and, reach out to you in that way. I have enjoyed our time together. I really have getting to know you more and to hear how God is working through your life.
Jonathan:Thank you for having us. It's been a great honor for us. What a a great time we had had, participate in this podcast with you.
Carolina:Yes. Thank you so much. It's a privilege, and it's really nice to share, our lives with you. Yeah.
T.J.:Well, it is it's been a joy to be able to be a recipient and to to learn more about both of you.
Jonathan:Thank you.
Carolina:Thanks.
T.J.:And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
