Juan Manuel Cabezas Torres - Wanting To Serve Others
You are listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. The following is a faith conversation with Juan Manuel Torres. He is the associate minister at the Faith Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Memphis, Tennessee. And he is a recent graduate of Memphis Theological Seminary. Juan is one of the nicest people I have ever met. His humility and kindness is contagious. The world needs more people like Juan, and I am glad to be able to call him a friend. Enjoy this faith conversation with Juan Torres.
T.J.:Let's go to the beginning. Tell me about your childhood.
Juan:Well, I was born in Cali, Colombia. My parents, Jose Guillermo and Vilma. I was born in 1989 in a conflictive Colombia. We live in a city, pretty big that Colombian context. So it was a good time.
Juan:From a medium class family with some privileges. But it's been Do
T.J.:you have siblings? Where were you in the My
Juan:little brother. Okay. We are two years apart.
T.J.:Okay.
Juan:And he's like my best friend and the best thing that our parents could give each other. I'm very proud of him. Does being here take you apart from your family, but my brother is the actual, the only one that I almost talk to every single day.
T.J.:Okay, and he's in Columbia?
Juan:He is still in Columbia.
T.J.:When you were growing up, what were things that you and your brother did for fun?
Juan:Several things. I just, every memory that I have of any fun thing, any, you know, thing that causes joy is just related to my brother. We did everything that we did was together and everything starts since the very beginning when I started school and I, you know, we wear uniforms. And even though he is still at home, he also had uniforms and take me to the bus stop. And then from that he just get back to eat his lunch and kind of school experience.
Juan:But yeah, he's been very close to all the experiences that I was taking in, so.
T.J.:When you were growing up, were you an inside kid or were you outside all the time?
Juan:Outside. Our childhood is marked by being outside, so usually after school we come from Collegium Americano about 1PM in the afternoon. We have lunch, do some homework sometimes, and then just go out and scream for our friends to come out to and play with us. It is definitely kind of old school childhood. And we have plenty memories of things that we did, the games, friends from the same street that we used to live.
T.J.:So you played football? Soccer.
Juan:Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. Oh, usually
Juan:Yeah.
T.J.:From Columbia, it'll be, no, it's football, not soccer. So you're already assimilated into the into the English language of soccer.
Juan:Yeah, we call it football. Yeah. But here it's very clear the difference between football and soccer.
T.J.:Right, right, right.
Juan:So yeah, soccer is the actually very dominant sport in Colombia, so we usually play a lot of soccer. Plus other sports, basketball, some volleyball. We were exposed to several sports, but soccer is the one that dominates the Colombian culture.
T.J.:Well, because you can play it in the street, you can play it in the alley, you can play it in the park. I mean, it's one of those things that you can, it's very mobile sport, you know?
Juan:Yeah, like a lot of people, you you just take your ball to anywhere you go. So I remember taking my soccer ball to my school if we went to uncle's or aunt's houses or something. It was just bringing our ball with us. We are almost as passionate about soccer as Brazilians are.
T.J.:So tell me about your parents.
Juan:My father, Jose Guillermo, he's a CPA. He has a specialization with tax something that I don't recall right now. So he's a hard worker. He has worked his entire life. He retired recently and is still working.
Juan:Anytime that I call him, he's working. So, he's an unstoppable man. High values, discipline, respect, and honesty are his court's values. So, he's been great. He has given us so much.
Juan:Even though he wasn't able to receive much, he has made a great effort and sacrifice to give us a lot of things that make us feel privileged.
T.J.:And your mother?
Juan:My mom. She's also great. She's Vilma. She's a manager. Her degree is, yeah, just kind to management.
Juan:Mhmm. It's just hard to come up with a actual title from Spanish into English. But yeah, she's like administrative, you know, she's able to manage. Yeah. She did some semesters of School of Laws, but she didn't finish, but also she's been very sacrificed.
Juan:She has worked a lot. She did everything for us. Our parents divorced about February or '2, '2 thousand and '1, and she truly worked hard for us. We could witness the way and how she has done everything for us. So, the same thing, I think she has given us the capacity to love and to express love and that comes from her.
Juan:She's very lovely. Though she also didn't experience the, you know, our parents' generation, they didn't experience all the love expression from our grandparents. So she just being great. I have no words to describe how she's been so influential in our lives, both my brother and I. And not only in our personal aspect but also in our spiritual aspect.
T.J.:Yeah. Both of your parents were or are professionals, and that's hard to do during the eighties and nineties in the transition for Columbia as a as a country. So talk a little bit about that as you're growing up when Colombia is shifting more towards an international country, democratic country, and the nation is kind of clamping down on cartels and providing even more educational opportunities for its people. Did you, as a child and even as a teenager, you feel those changes and were you aware of how life was twenty, thirty, forty years earlier in the country?
Juan:I think that that's what made our life different, that in the midst of violence and lack of several things, our parents did everything possible for us to don't experience that. So even though we were hitting about kids that they couldn't go to school for the conflict, It was more rural, but also poverty has been part of our system. So we never got to experience that. So that's where that magic comes from, all the sacrifices and everything they do. I thanks God because we never experience hunger or lack of anything both material or emotional.
Juan:They have done great. Still, they are still being great parents and great grandparents. So that's where I find privilege. That in the midst of several situations, other kids' struggles, we never got to experience that. And that made and marked our lives in a different way, positive, more positive way.
Juan:And I think that was the way that we could shape our spirits and our character different.
T.J.:Yeah. When you were a child, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Juan:I was very close always to biology and becoming a doctor, a physician. But then at the end of our high school we had the opportunity to explore any different from what we thought. So I went a little bit close to it with dentistry and I ended up in dental school some years later. But yeah, I almost feel that either medicine or dentistry was the thing that I would love to do as an adult and a professional.
T.J.:What was it about biology and medicine that drew you as a youth?
Juan:I think that I was surrounded by some doctors in our family. And the way that we admire that job and the fact to serve people. I think that right now I found out that I like to serve people. I like to be in relationship with people. So medicine or any health related career, just you have to be in contact with other human beings and usually your job is based on serving others with your knowledge.
Juan:So I think that either of those professions could work out in my life.
T.J.:Where do you think that desire to serve others comes from?
Juan:I think it's somehow natural but that's part of our, I would say the way we were raised by our parents. They, mainly my mom, just loves to serve. Not in the sense that she can give up on her own desires or her own things just to help or do something else for someone else. So I think that we were taught way she could give up many things for us and for other people just to help.
T.J.:There's something special of observing another person who gives of themselves their time, attention, food, whatever it may be in terms of sacrifice, and to do it with joy. You know, some people, you know, they just radiate that joy of giving of themselves.
Juan:Mainly in our lives, I'm speaking of my brother and I, apart from my parents, we have our uncle, Manuel. And I think he's been our third parent, is great. He's been very close to us our whole life. And several also of our values that we have got those from Him. I think they all three have complemented each other to teach us very profound and deep lessons in our life that actually most of my character to I hope and I feel it comes from values and actions, mainly actions that our uncle did for us.
T.J.:It is special to be able to have adults in our lives as we are growing up to spend time with us, model, share their character, share their wisdom, because we've met people who may not have had those good people to be able to help raise us.
Juan:Yeah, I think that is definitely very influential how at some point where we were kids, we just admire and we want to become like our uncle and parents because we have received so much love from them. From my parents and my uncle. We have received, apart from love, also generosity and several other things that I think change our life in the sense that we are able to understand some things earlier than most of older kids.
T.J.:We were talking off mic about your faith and religion in the household. Let's go back to that since we weren't recording the last time we were together. So what was the faith like religious experiences in the house as you were growing up? Or was there any at all?
Juan:By tradition, several families in Colombia are Catholic. Even though we don't practice it much or we don't attend Mass very often, the default religion in Colombia is Catholicism. So we were born into a Catholic family. We were baptized and we did the first communion, even though we didn't we're very close to our local church. And then even though we didn't attend much to the Catholic Masses on a regular basis, We got enrolled in the Collegium Americano, founded by the Cumberland Prohibition Church Mission in Colombia.
Juan:At that time, we had no idea of the denomination and the background of it. The decision was made just based on I was enrolled in the school right next to the Collegium Americano. For any reason they didn't accept my brother. So my dad just crossed the street and asked if he could have both kids enrolled. And they say yes, so I was moved.
Juan:I did pre K, kinder, and first grade in that school. When it was my brother's time to start, they didn't allow him. So we both were moved to the Americano.
T.J.:Okay,
Juan:so He started pre K and I continued with second grade in the Americano and we did all our school life at the Colegio Americano.
T.J.:So early on you lived across the street from the school?
Juan:Did No, The school that I did pre K and kinder and first grade, it was just across the street of the Collegio Americano. When my dad tries to enroll my brother, they didn't accept him for age things like he was born in January, so by that time they have to wait for one year more.
T.J.:Okay, I understand.
Juan:Was the reason. So then he just crossed the street and asked if he could have both kids, I mean, my brother and I, enrolled in the same school. That's what they were expecting. And they said yes, so we were moved to Tecolico Americano. I bring up this just to mention that then we kind of have like two spiritual lives, one in our home where it wasn't much, so we didn't experience like prayer as a spiritual discipline, as family, not reading of Scripture or something like that.
Juan:But on the other side, in school, we were getting daily devotional worship service once a week and that influential part in our lives of God, Jesus, and Scripture. So, without I think my parents, they didn't realize that Colegio Morricana had really good reputation in its academic performance. So, it was famous for good students. But they didn't realize also that we were immersed in also a new kind of religions influence in life.
T.J.:Yeah. It's desirable in Columbia as well as other parts of the world to be able to attend, you know, essentially a private school because you pay tuition. But it opens the doors for the children, for the youth, for the students, for careers and things like that. So not only did you get a good education, but you got exposed more in-depth to the Christian faith.
Juan:Mhmm.
T.J.:How did that translate or did that translate over into the household? Because you're learning more of the Scriptures, you're learning more about a relationship with God in a household that it wasn't a daily practice.
Juan:Yeah, I think that's something that you feel you are not bringing to home. It's something that you, as a kid, I think you don't adopt that part as your identity yet. You know you have it but sometimes you can even be ashamed of recognizing it. So I don't remember bringing those spiritual disciplines into our house like asking our parents to pray or something. I think that we didn't do that, but we were exposed to it while we were in the Colle Americano.
Juan:Sometimes I guess we don't even want it to be in the devotional or we didn't pay full attention to it. Same with the worship service that we had on Wednesdays. But at some point you realize that you are getting the songs, that you are memorizing the verses, that you are familiar with Scripture, and the Bible, and its composition, and books of the Bible, and even you can memorize some verses. So I think that without knowing, you were in that transitioning.
T.J.:Yeah. Even if you didn't want to do it,
Juan:you were
T.J.:doing Yeah,
Juan:I mean, it was just part of the school dynamic. So you get immersed even if you don't want to. And at some point when you are growing up and you are in your youth years, then I feel most of kids are ashamed to express their faith even though they are happy for it or they would like to explore more about it. When you are among friends, I think that was sometimes hard for a young guy or girl to recognize it.
T.J.:How about for you, Juan? You're a teenager. You're in high school or in school and you are learning more about the faith. It's changing you. It's impacting you, but you're still also growing.
T.J.:So that level of embarrassment. Was there an embarrassment or ashamed, I think is a word you used to be able to maybe talk more deeply about faith or maybe what was discussed in class or in devotion earlier? Did you kind of pack it in and sort of hide it? Or did you have open conversations?
Juan:I think that, at least from my experience, most of my classmates, they didn't have any church background. They were the same as I was. So they come from probably a non practitioner Catholic family. They come to a school that they do mainly evangelism.
T.J.:Yeah,
Juan:yeah. So, I think in our childhood, like elementary school, it was very I have several memories or whole class singing, you know, the praise music, you know, with our hearts and screaming. And then when we go to high school then you feel kind of embarrassed to express your faith but still I think that we were packaging those messages and that Scripture and that knowledge about God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit in our hearts. And I think that it prospered in several former classmates, and I see now their adult life, it looks like, it seems like, that they have grown their faith.
T.J.:Well, how about for you? Because let's talk about your transition and more of an active life as a disciple. Was there a pivotal moment and change for you where you were just kind of a nominal, you know, go to the go to church, go to worship, like in high season, sometimes for mass to where it was an actual relationship with God?
Juan:Yeah, I think our transition was, I was like about 14 or 15 years old and then my mom started attending an evangelical church.
T.J.:Okay.
Juan:So I think that was the time where we transitioned from, you know, Catholicism, officially Catholicism, to the evangelical church, which in Columbus is called Christian church.
T.J.:So let me interrupt you for a minute. In your household, did you and your brother have to go with your mother? Or was it an option? Could you have slept
Juan:in on It was an option. My mom started attending this church. It was called Mision Charismatic Almundo. I think it was non denominational. But my mom started attending that church and then some day I attend with her and I was caught up by the music.
Juan:They had a really good drummer and a very nice praise band. So we had music influence in our house. My dad, he had a salsa band. Really? So they used to have rehearsal every single Saturday and my dad had all the equipment, sound equipment and all the instruments.
Juan:I was exposed to some of the percussion, Latin percussion in our house. So I like music at that time. I have taken guitar lessons, piano lessons, but never got to learn anything. We also were in guitar lessons in the Collegium Americana but never learned a bit of it. But then when I started paying attention to the drum set and this drummer in this new church, that was my hook.
Juan:So I used to attend the first section of, you know, the singing part, the praise band, and then when the pastor start, I just left. Because at that moment it was kind of pastors didn't have good reputation. So, in the sense that for the Catholicism, anyone that left the Catholic church to join a Christian church, which in reality was an evangelical church, we all were Christian, but it was conflicted. Even though inside our family my mom received a lot of criticism from her family because she was leaving the real faith of Catholicism to join a sect. So that was somehow conflicted.
Juan:So I think that I had some of it, that's why I was kind of rejecting someone else, you know, trying to give me a sermon.
T.J.:Yeah.
Juan:But at some point my mom connected with a young guy that used to sing in the praise band and he come up and we introduce ourselves and we start building that relationship. Then we start the kind of discipleship with him and I got closer to the praise band. I started learning how to play drums and then I just got fully immersed in the church and had really good experience. At some point then I joined the praise band after several years being in rehearsals and learning and studying at home. And I played the drums with the praise band for about four or five years.
Juan:And then when I was in a time of dental school that things become very busy and that I wasn't able to attend rehearsals and my study conflict with the praise band, rehearsals, and other activities, then I have to quit.
T.J.:I find it interesting that, you know, it was the drums, the percussion, the rhythm that drew you in. And, you know, credit to, you know, 14, 15 year old Juan of you were there for the music first, but then you stay a little bit longer, little bit longer.
Juan:Mhmm.
T.J.:And were able to get some discipleship with one on one, but also through the preaching as well. So at that time, Juan, did you had any idea that you may end up being in ministry of some sort?
Juan:No, that's what's funny. Anytime that we feel we're doing a step forward we just look to our back and we see that every single step had like a good plan in our life. So now it's just amazing to connect. You know, for us it was just a good coincidence that we got accepted in the Collegium Americano and now ordained and working with that denomination that founded the school where I spent almost eleven years of my childhood and young years there. So it's been just great to connect all those dots and in my life and just get to the point that God has surprised us in so many ways and this one is one of them.
T.J.:Yeah, It's a surprise and I know we're jumping ahead but it's a surprise, it's unfolding, you know, in the moment.
Juan:Yeah, perhaps to me it's a surprise but when I talk to my brother and he say, But why are you surprised if you have been involved since you were young? Like when I was part of Praise Band, I didn't imagine myself in the front of the pulpit speaking to a crowd. But at some point I think that I just was made to be there and to serve. That's the main thing that I think my heart have been driven by, just to serve in any capacity or any skill that I'm able. So at some point also I was some semesters ahead in dental school and we used to do like health campaigns where I also started doing some service in a dental mobile unit with discharge.
Juan:So I think that any opportunity of serving that I have been able to be part of, I have embraced it.
T.J.:Yeah, that's interesting because the percussions, the drums, they're usually in the back. They're usually, even sometimes, kind of like contained sort of like in or some sort of box. There's a comfort level to that, know, being you're sort of, you're not in the front, you're not the one leading the singing, you're just providing the rhythm, the beat. And then to see, oh, you know, over a relatively short period of time the transition of moving from the back to the front.
Juan:Well, I have never thought of it. It just describes my personality. It's just amazing that description too. I love to serve. I love to, you know, be of help.
Juan:Be able to provide anything that needs to be done and that it's necessary to complete a goal in ministry, in church. I'm not fan to be in the spotlight, but I definitely love to work behind curtains just to do anything necessary to serve. And I think that describes my personality.
T.J.:And going back, you're in training to become a dentist. So you're in dentistry school. And this is your career path as you understand it. How long does it take to go through dentistry school?
Juan:Five years.
T.J.:So it's a five year. Are you guaranteed a job when you're done? How do you set up a practice?
Juan:No, that's the hard part in our country that even though several people like me spend a lot of time, a lot of effort, and our families spend a lot of resources in our education. We go to the graduation, which is not easy, but then when we start looking for job opportunities is when it becomes very hard to find a fair job option that can help you thrive in your life.
T.J.:When you were going through the school, what was your dream at the time? Did you wanted to remain in Cali? Were you open to moving to another city?
Juan:I think at that moment I just wanted to complete my degree and be able to have my own office, my own dental office. I think that you never consider to work in the health system in Colombia because it's really hard to get into it. It's sometimes well paid but it's really hard. There are very few spots and so many people that it is hard to fight for one of those. You actually, you start thinking always about have your own dental practice, private dental practice, which also is very competitive.
T.J.:I mean you spend five years in school, that costs money and then to have the capital to have the money to open up your own practice, private practice, as opposed to joining, you know, maybe a group of dentists. What a challenge.
Juan:Yeah, definitely a huge challenge and to me that was the hardest part when I got my degree and find out that opportunities weren't as easy as you would love to be. And also it crossed paths with my sentimental life. So I was finishing my career and I graduate in May. And a few months later I also crossed paths with, who is my wife now, Lady, on 2013.
T.J.:Yeah, talk about how the two of you met.
Juan:The last year of my career I started taking free scuba diving lessons and training in order to get certified. So for one year I trained and, you know, it was a hobby too. So it was kind of a nice thing too. I needed to do some exercise at that time and I found out this could be a good way to do it. So, I did train and I got in love with, you know, scuba diving.
Juan:And we went to San Andres Island, beautiful island in the Caribbean. I was there, I did all my week was, you know, of hard work getting my certification with my professors from the Escuba diving school. And then the last day I met with a lady. She was coming from another city and she was with her family celebrating the pregnancy of her sister.
T.J.:Okay.
Juan:We crossed paths, we exchanged phone numbers, and we just kept in touch. She was in Bogota, I was in Cali, so our first month of getting to know each other was through Skype.
T.J.:Okay.
Juan:So we spent a lot of time just talking and sharing from one another through Skype.
T.J.:So you're getting ready to go home and you bump into this young woman, you're a young man, and you just hit it off, you just knew that this was someone you wanted to know more deeply?
Juan:That was funny because we were in a nightclub. Were very, our mindset for this week, usually people take a lot, you know, this destination as a vacation destination, so there are a lot of nightclubs and a lot of things to have fun, but our focus in this trip was training. So we wake up six a. M. To run a mile and we did a lot of swimming and exercising and we went to bed very early the whole week.
Juan:The last day that we got our certification and we got our diploma and all the stuff, we went to celebrate in a nightclub. So we crossed paths, we were dancing, I invite her to dance and she asked, What do you do? And I said, I'm a dentist, what about you? And she started laughing. Then I realized she was a dentist too.
T.J.:Okay.
Juan:So, I think what caught our attention was that, you know, we were on the same field. Of course she was ahead of me. She had some master's degree already and she was specialized in teaching. She was professor in some universities in Bogota. Wow.
Juan:She just, by the time that I finished my dental school, she finished her master's degree in bioethics. Wow. So we met, I think we found out we were interesting for each other. Yeah. And we just start talking and connecting.
Juan:That's funny, that night, that was my last night, and I was leaving the next morning. And she was like half her trip. When I got to the airport, I think someone had an emergency so the airline asked, We need two volunteers that stay. We're gonna pay for hotel and flights and the cab, you know, going back to the hotel plus meals, but we need you to give up on your seat and we're gonna reschedule you for, it was a Sunday, so they say they would schedule the two volunteers for So I took the decision to stay and Or I took that opportunity and made the decision to stay. And then I surprised her.
Juan:You know, was kind of a sad time when we have to say bye to each other and then I got the surprise that I was back with my luggage and equipment to the hotel. And we spent those two or three days together having fun, kind of enjoying with a stranger, but
T.J.:Yeah, getting to know each other.
Juan:Uh-huh, so that was really good time and good memories. That's how it all started. And then each one flowed to their cities, back to their life and routine and then we use Skype a lot. I'm glad that it was for free at that time.
T.J.:Were you on there for hours?
Juan:Hours, yeah. And at night because she was a professor in three different universities, so she was very busy. I also had to start my dental practice, so we worked all day long and then at night we used to spend a lot of hours just sharing and talking through Skype.
T.J.:How long did the two of you date?
Juan:We dated from October and then I moved to Bogota. I moved with her in February. Okay.
T.J.:So he's
Juan:pretty Yeah, yeah. Didn't spend that period of time together. It was just through Skype. We moved, I moved to Bogota to be closer, to be So we spent from about February, I think, 2014. And then in July, I started looking for a job.
Juan:I got a job there. It wasn't very fair. At that point we realized that we had the opportunity to come. We had no plans. We had no anything in our minds.
Juan:We just come here in August for tourism. Okay. But then we found out that is a good English school as us, English as a Second Language school in the University of Memphis. We went, we investigate, we end up connecting and we stay.
T.J.:That's amazing. So you meet in the fall of one year, you move from Cali to Bogota in February. And then by August of the same year, the two of you come to The United States just as tourists, just to see what
Juan:To explore. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah. It was pretty quick. So I think it was impacting to our families.
T.J.:Yeah. What is Juan doing? Where is he going?
Juan:Yeah, just to take it easy, go slower, blah blah blah. But, you know, we just did this. It could end up terrible, but thanks God it's been great time. She's my life's partner and I'm just so happy to have crossed paths and now to have built the family that we have right now and our two daughters are the most special things in our lives and I think just that fruit of our relationship.
T.J.:Let's talk more about the ability, the adventure side of just kind of exploring because most people would be very reluctant to make such a big change of like coming to The United States just to explore, just to see what options are out there. Most people have a plan, But there's something to be said about being open to what the world has to offer and just to see, you know, because plans change, you know, or they fall through, But there's a level of openness that I've that I admire in those who just kind of let the world come to them. And so what is that like? Because I've seen I know we don't know each other very well. You're both.
T.J.:You're a planner and you also have this openness of what the day will bring.
Juan:I think that's a mix of things. At that moment, we didn't, I mean I didn't feel like I'm an explorer, am I going to find opportunities, but I think part of it was to find different opportunities because what I was mentioning at the beginning is even though we spend a lot of time, resources, effort getting our professional degrees, it is hard to experience progress in our lives in Colombia if we don't get a truly good job that you can afford to at least have an apartment and a car. So it is really hard for move on with those salaries and those job offers. I think to me that was the first thing that pushed me out to find two different scenarios. We came with no plans, with no idea of what would happen.
T.J.:Was this your first time to The United States?
Juan:No. Okay. No, I have came in the past just for visiting my uncle who lives here.
T.J.:Okay.
Juan:My grandparents and uncle, but it was just for vacation few But I have never planned to live here, but then when we come and we were young, we didn't have something really that we could stay in Columbia for because, you know, we had nothing at that moment.
T.J.:You're both young, you're both done with school and you're just kind of open for new opportunities professionally and
Juan:At this time I think we were just planning on a stay for studying English. It was our first goal to get enrolled in II at the University of Memphis and we thought that that would be all. And then we could find any other place, but at least we had English as a second language. Our first intention was to learn English and we saw the opportunity, we took it, we start studying intensive English for international programs. So we had a really good experience.
Juan:I think it was the first time that we were exposed to other cultures, other people with different beliefs and ways of thinking. So it was a great experience.
T.J.:Last time you and I were together you were sharing the story of some of your classmates and how you would communicate. Would you share that again? I find that amazing.
Juan:Yeah, we had no English when we come, no English at all apart from English in school. So we come up to a class where you are put intentionally in a class group where there is no classmate that speak your same language. You are in a class with people with, you know, from different countries and languages. So the only thing we had in common was the willingness to learn English. When we had break times, it was funny because we didn't have the language.
Juan:So we used a lot of body language and at some point it looks like we were playing Pictionary, just mimicking what we were trying to say or drawing or looking in the cell phone for translation because it was very difficult but also an opportunity and that was the exposure that we got to a new context. And I think that was what created in us the need of learning English. Yeah. And things went pretty well by some weeks later, at least we were able to communicate better. Yeah.
Juan:I think if I hear or see any video or audio record from that moment, I just would feel embarrassment of that very broken English. But it is the experience what push you to learn more and to learn efficiently. So it was great but also we had a lot of fun. We made really good friends. And we got to know also from different religions, beliefs, practices, several things that open our minds to be more, to embrace people instead of nationalities, languages, cultures.
Juan:So we had that opportunity to experience all of that in just one place and we met very, very good people that some of them are still old friends
T.J.:Nice.
Juan:By this time.
T.J.:How did you get connected to the Cumberland Presbyterian Church? We talked about at the school. So the school falls under the umbrella of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. However, I mean, the main purpose of the school is for education. Mhmm.
T.J.:So when you're here in The United States, how did you get connected to the church here in The United States?
Juan:Well, in my high school, junior and senior years, we had a professor, ethics professor, Johan Dasa. Oh, So when we moved here looking for opportunities, we found out Johan has got married, had a family, and was in Memphis, Tennessee.
T.J.:Oh, okay.
Juan:That great conscience. The last time that I have seen Johan was on our graduation ceremony in the Colle Americano in 02/2007. So, almost seven, six years later, we re encountered here in Memphis, we reconnected, and he introduced me to also Milton Ortiz and Diane White. Okay. They were our first friends here.
Juan:And we then joined Faith
T.J.:Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Juan:Yeah, Faith Cumberland Presbyterian Church as our church. So it was a really good opportunity for Lady and for me as a way to explore our spirituality. That's something that you never think about when you are in a relationship. You make sure that you have the same tastes with food, with where to go to vacation or several things, but you never got to discuss spirituality. And by that time, I think we haven't talked about it and faith Cumberland just was or great opportunity to start exploring that since the tradition of our denomination is more to the conservative side of evangelism.
Juan:So we found out a really nice middle point between lady's background and mine. So I was coming from a evangelical charismatic church, you know, where jumping and singing out loud and
T.J.:Playing the drums.
Juan:Playing the drums. Yeah, it's normal. That's my normal. Prayer out loud and expressing my faith is just normal. And she comes from the Catholicism where you just pray in silence or you
T.J.:It's quiet.
Juan:You are solemn. So, I know that if I would try to bring her into my whole reality that would fail in her spirituality, I wasn't able to be back. Once I tried this experience of faith, I wasn't able to rejoin Catholicism. And then there is where our denomination plays a huge role right in the middle where we can have the praise band but also the Lord's Prayer and the Apostle's Creed and a different way of approach or faith. So I think we got from different extremes to the center.
T.J.:Yeah, it's like a happy medium between the Yeah,
Juan:really good. So I like the opportunity of, or I love the opportunity that we start exploring our spirituality as a couple, not as an individual. I remember a lady doing some prayers with the
T.J.:Rosary.
Juan:The rosary and things like that. I didn't get to join her. She never got to pray with me. But then when we joined our denomination it was just the great opportunity to start growing in our faith as a couple. And it's been just great.
T.J.:And that happened here in The United States. Yes. Okay. So to go back just a little bit. So you, the two of you, found these commonalities in terms of your profession, vacation spots.
T.J.:I mean, all these, you know, food that you mentioned and all these different things. But it wasn't until much later in your relationship that the two of you actually had a conversation about faith, spirituality, what it looks like individually, what that looks like together. That's pretty neat and not unusual. Not unusual. I would say that happens more often now than maybe two, three, four generations ago.
Juan:Yeah, for us it's been a blessing and I'm so proud of how we can, we have experienced that growth both in our personal lives, in our life as a marriage, as a couple, and also now the influence that me and my wife can do on our children. And I just love the idea of see my wife putting our kids to bed and praying and expressing now her faith and explaining several things to them. I know that perhaps if we could have the opportunity to be parents several years ago and we couldn't go through this path, it might not be possible for us to explore our spirituality and also to teach our kids about God and what we believe.
T.J.:Well, it's a pretty big leap from going, from just attending worship and and playing in the band, and then a call to the ministry of word and the sacraments. So kinda walk me through that, Juan. How did you understand your calling into, well, this profession, this vocation.
Juan:Well, that is when Johan, Milton, and Diane have been crucial.
T.J.:They have been my mentors. Let's pause here.
Juan:Uh-huh.
T.J.:Just for those listening. So Joe Hondaza, Reverend Joe Hondaza, was a school teacher, an ethics teacher at the school, which is pretty interesting because he must have been a young professor
Juan:Very young.
T.J.:To school at the time. And then Johann has been a guest on Cumberland Road. And and then Milton Ortiz, Reverend Doctor Milton Ortiz, also has been a previous guest on Cumberland Road. And I'm kind of talking for you. So you interrupt me and just kind of talk about how your relationship with these three individuals have impacted your faith.
Juan:Johan was a great teacher. As you mentioned, he was very young. So in the Collegium Americano we were young, you know, junior and senior high school. So come up a guy almost our age, he was just four or five years older than us. And I think he impacted our lives in the Colegimaricano.
Juan:He made a great job because we have had, this is not a formal complaint, but usually the teachers that we had were, you know, very mature. He
T.J.:must have been relatable because of his
Juan:age. Ordained.
T.J.:Yeah.
Juan:I guess they were ordained as active pastors in different churches in Colombia that come to teach ethics and religion in the Colle Americano. And we never had the experience to connect with them. We had, you know, they were just teachers and it was another class. But when Johan came, he just changed the dynamic of ethics and religion in the Collegium Americano And he truly connected with all these kids, you know, looking for answers, several questions we had about several things and he just connected and he made these two last years of Colegio Americano great in our spiritual lives. And I still remember the last message that he gave in our graduation ceremony.
T.J.:You still remember it.
Juan:Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it is. I mean, not the whole thing but the idea of our boats and Jesus in our boat. Impacted not only our lives as students but also our families.
Juan:My mom and my dad, they love Johan. And it's funny because they also say that they still remembering the message. Wow. So yeah, got to be of impact in our lives. A huge blessing for all the students.
Juan:I guess that's my feeling. And I have got to know from other classmates at that moment that they also think as I did and I do right now too. He connect me with Milton. He say, Oh, I have to introduce you. Milton, he's from Cali too.
Juan:So we got to know Milton and Francia. They have been also crucial in our journey here. They became close friends very quickly. They have helped us. They have taught us.
Juan:They have guide us. They have been really good friends and we love them also so much. And Diane. Diane White and John, they are also people that just love to serve. They were the they and Tommy and Catherine Craig, they were the first people that we met with in the faith, Cumberland Presbyterian Church, and they embraced us.
Juan:They offered us, you know, community sense of friendship, of belonging. They opened their houses for us to come and to share and to get immersed also in that culture, in that American culture.
T.J.:Because it can be easy to be isolated the transition a different country.
Juan:Easy. And I think that
T.J.:And language. Yes. Can make it even more isolating.
Juan:It's very difficult. It's very difficult when you leave your culture, your language, your food, your streets. I was mentioning even the smell. That's funny, but yeah, you just get out of your world and you get into, you become a stranger in a new world of everything, food, language, culture, You have to go from school to home and still using the GPS for several months until you get used to the city and until you can call your home or your place home.
T.J.:Yeah. It must be so stressful and just overwhelming. I would imagine that if I was to relocate, I would I think my greatest worry would be to say or do the wrong thing, like out of ignorance, but it not be acceptable, you know, like, I don't know, I can't think of a good example at the moment. But like, you know, it's understood in that culture, that city or that town that no one does or says this, and I unknowingly would do or say that thing. I think that would be my greatest fear.
Juan:No, it is a fear but at the end it becomes one of the good memories. We have done that a lot. We have said very inappropriate things both in English and in Spanish. That's funny, most of our friends, our best friends are also from Mexico. We have Spanish as the same language but we have different usage of some words.
Juan:So it just been great, you know, that experience of failing in both languages. And we have learned, we have experienced and now I think we have a good Mexican Spanish and a good broken English. But yeah, it's just part of the of learning another language, being in another culture.
T.J.:Alright, let's talk more about this vocation into ministry. So your background is in dentistry, know, your passion is biology and medicine. What's the connection between that and ministry?
Juan:I think that's where Johan Milton and Diane were crucial as my brother did explaining to me that I like to serve, that I like to because my fear was always I don't see myself as a pastor preaching in the front. First because English is not my first language and I don't like to be a public speaker. I think that I don't do very well with speeches and all kind of public speaking thing. So I think that was my fear. Still one of the pressures that I experienced when I have to get to the front and use the microphone.
T.J.:So do you feel anxious even in your preparation as you get ready to preach? What's going through your mind?
Juan:I think I'm okay with my preparation, with my ideas and what I believe God want me to transfer. I'm just a male guy. But my concern is still being clear enough that my language, my capacity to express, to talk, is clear enough for the people to gather the whole message that I believe God is saying to our church. So I think that's the only thing that I have pressure on to use my language in the best way that I'm able to. Other than that, you know, being in the front and just yesterday was funny while we had sound issues and just several things going on.
Juan:But at the end we could come up with a good experience. And I feel some peace when people come. I don't preach very often. So, any time that I preach it's been a while. So, I got to experience the anxiety of the first time
T.J.:So,
Juan:when people come with good feedback and when people come saying that, you know, that they got the message, then it kind of gives me peace in the sense that I was able to say it in a way that my English could be understood and the message could be transferred.
T.J.:Yeah. So, having conversations with Johann and Milton and Diane and others including your brother, how did those go?
Juan:We started building Bible study within our community and friends. So we call it El Grupo and we started doing it in different houses. It was led by initially Johan and Milton. And I was always involved, as I said, not leading but behind doing things facilitating things. I like the word facilitator.
Juan:If there is anything that I could do in order to accomplish something for God's kingdom, I'll be there. Not at the front, not leading sometimes, but I just want to help and that's why they helped me to see that I had that call that even though I didn't know it, I was in ministry serving, doing things. And I think that was a reality that I didn't want to accept because my understanding was like, you know, of holiness, you know, the person that preaches. And I feel I'm very broken and I'm very I fail a lot and I do certain things that I thought wouldn't allow me to be used by God. So, when I come to that conclusion, it's just reaffirming that if I can be used, anyone can be used by God.
Juan:Foreign English is not my second language. I didn't have any Bible or background that allows me to go to seminary. Still, I made it, I went through seminary, I learned a lot. I'm still learning. I'm so grateful for this opportunity of seminary that our denomination gave me.
Juan:And also I'm still, I feel kind of in a student mode with our pastor Andy. He's been great in teaching me the manners of a pastor.
T.J.:Yeah, you're in a place of advantage. You're serving as an associate minister at Faith Cumberland Presbyterian Church, and and you have this opportunity to where you don't have to preach every Sunday.
Juan:No. Once in a quarter.
T.J.:Yeah. And that gives you an opportunity to participate yet observe at the same time and kind of grow into grow into the the role and what that vocation may look like for you. Let's talk about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. If you were to encounter somebody who has never heard of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, how would you describe this denomination, this group of people that consider themselves family?
Juan:Well, I would say our denomination is able to offer people a truly tangible church family. I know our self perception is very humble in the sense that we consider ourselves small. Our characteristic is that we have several churches but small congregations. But what I see is that the fact that that's our identity. We are capable to offer local people a family that care for its members, that call its members, that check on its members, that we take care of each other, that we love each other, that we encourage each other.
Juan:So that was our experience and that was part of our, I would say, success connecting with the culture. You know, I know several people that they come, they don't have a community and they left because it's really hard to be by yourself to that feeling of loneliness, that you are alone, that you have no one that cares for you. That is very impacting in someone's life and that's why a lot of people, they just they can't take it. What made our experience way more easy was that we had a part of my uncle. We found this church and they embraced us.
Juan:That's the word that I like to use. They embraced us even though we could communicate at that time, even though we were from an art context, an art culture. They just show us love, help, guidance. So I'm so proud of that because we experience our denomination, capacity and skills firsthand. And we are, or I feel that I'm proud of it.
Juan:I didn't grow up CP. I never got to, you know, being in the family, in the CP family. Even though I was in the Collegium Americano, I never considered myself being CP. Just until we moved here and we joined Fate. Actually, I was checking our file and OrClaire let me know that I became a member along with Lady in February 1535.
Juan:So it's been ten years plus the first months that we were attending that we have been in faith and they just have been that part of our life that has encouraged us in ministry too. So when I had that sense of call it was reaffirmed by several people among our congregation. I had a lot of support. People checking, Hey, how are you doing with seminary? How are you doing with this and that?
Juan:Do you need any help? Do you need something? So that encouragement just, I think, pushed me through.
T.J.:And you were balancing work and school and then one child and then two children.
Juan:Yes.
T.J.:What was that experience like?
Juan:Well, sometimes there is nothing to think about it. Just get things done.
T.J.:Just go.
Juan:Yeah, just go do your best. Sometimes you are just functioning. Sometimes you are doing your best. You know, you have ups and downs, But in this part, Lady has been crucial. If it will be possible, I would love to have her name on my diploma.
Juan:She's been just supporting me, sustaining me. She has, you know, she's been the person that has been their inner intimacy, you know, just don't she have let me down. Sometimes I have been, you know, down because of just exhaustive. I'm just exhaustive of several things at the same time, out of energy. Still she has been there, so that's why I think that I need to talk to the MTS to put her on my diploma.
Juan:And Sophie also, she attended a lot of classes when I was picking her up on my arms while attending classes at seminary. So, yeah, it's been a great experience but that's where I believe God has sustained us. We have been going through several things, occupations, commitments, things to do, but at the same time God has gave us the energy, the resources, everything that we have needed to accomplish everything and to do it well.
T.J.:You've been recently ordained. So describe maybe some of the greatest challenges of being newly ordained but yet some of the greatest gifts as being a new minister.
Juan:Well, to me I was scared to be ordained and I think that was part of our conversations with Lady to say, Hey, Lady, from now I need to be better. I need to look better. But then it just, you know, I was kind of anxious about the ordination and I thought that it would be like, Oh, moment. But no, it's just the way our denomination functions but still we all ordain or not, we are able to serve. We are able to be used by God to help others, to serve others, to love our neighbors.
Juan:So, as new minister in our denomination, I feel the commitment to contribute in any capacity, any skill that I'm able to make this wonderful denomination to grow, to expand, to reach others as I experienced. So I feel my call is not only to serve that church, my church, which I'm very happy to be serving, the church that gave me so much. It's not paying back, it's returning that love, that service, and use that encouragement to allow others, newcomers, to experience the same thing that I experienced. So I feel that's my role, to be able to serve God, God's kingdom, our church, and our denomination in the best capacity that I can.
T.J.:What are you reading now? You're no longer in graduate school, but we still have to read, we still have to study. What are you reading or have you taken a break?
Juan:I have to be honest. I finished seminary in October when I was ordained and I haven't touched a book that is not child's book.
T.J.:Got it. We have
Juan:taken a lot of books to read to my kids. Still, I use a lot of Book of Common Worship or exegesis, say it.
T.J.:Exegesis?
Juan:Exegesis, sorry. I could never pronounce this word. Exegesis, so I used those kind of academic books this time associate pastor and working on some ceremonies or liturgy for our worship service, but so far I haven't touched. I have some books pile up. Yeah.
Juan:One from PDMT that I haven't touched and I still, that's my first. Milton has some books also from Paul and others that I don't recall his titles, but also I got them on the same path so I hope to start doing it. Yeah, being out of seminary has allowed me to be more with my kids and get more rest this past month since October. But yeah, we need to get to our routine of reading.
T.J.:So last question. Your children are small right now, but one day in the future, they may find this podcast and listen to their dad. So you have an opportunity to speak to your children in the future. What would you say to them? What words of wisdom or advice?
Juan:Let me catch my ear. Sofia and Emma, they just changed our lives. Becoming a parent, it's been just the most fantastic thing for Lady and I. That's our first ministry. Family is our top ministry and we work hard for providing a home full of love and faith.
Juan:We want them to experience faith firsthand and they walk with God. I want them to know that our God is who sustain us through lives. I'm so proud that Sophie, at three years old, she invited us to pray before our meals and she is supported by her sister. So, I just would say to my other Sophie and Emma that we love them, that we have done everything to fulfill their lives in the sense that they can experience actual real love from their parents, we can feel any emotional necessity. And that also we have sown in their hearts to love others, to respect others, to serve others, and to love themselves too.
Juan:That they need to know that they worth a lot to God, to their family, to us, and that they are just able to serve wherever they are with any skill they learn. Whatever they choose to do, they just can serve God, serve people, and just I pray for them to be great women of faith that are able to pass down our faith also to our next generation and to make sure that we walk all our lives with God.
T.J.:Well said. Juan, thank you for walking me through your journey and bringing me into your life and being able to hear it. And I received a blessing and being being able to hear your your faith and hear your walk. Thank you, Juan.
Juan:Thank you so much, TJ, for this opportunity.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road. In closing, I believe this thought on serving others from Booker T. Washington adequately describes my guest, Juan Manuel. "Those who are happiest are those who do the most for others." Thanks for listening.
