Kim Moore - Sustaining, Filling, Repairing, and Sanctifying
Exploring faith journeys and sharing inspiring ministries that embody the Good News of God, You are listening to the Cumberland Road. I am your host, TJ Malinovsky. Caring for others is intrinsic to being human. Our care springs from love and compassion and empathy for one another, whether a family member, a friend, an acquaintance, or a stranger. Today's guest is living out that care for both body and soul through the medical field and ministry. Reverend Kim Moore has spent the last 33 years as a nurse. Today, she still remains in nursing while serving as minister at the Mount Sharon Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Springfield, Tennessee. In our conversation, Kim shares that caring for others is both gratifying and fulfilling and it fosters human intimacy and bond. We talk about how our faith can speak to us and through us in the workplace. We talk about compassion fatigue and healthy disciplines. We talk about CS Lewis and lamenting and worship. Through it all, Kim sees God as the one who sustains, fills, repairs, and sanctifies her. You are listening to the Cumberland Road podcast, and this is my conversation with Kim Moore.
T.J.:Kim, thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Kim:Yeah. Thank you for asking me.
T.J.:So, Kim, tell me a bit about what you're doing, the areas of ministry that you're a part of.
Kim:Okay. Well, right now, my main ministry is to be the pastor of Mount Sharon Cumberland Presbyterian Church, which is a beautiful little church in near Springfield, Tennessee. And it will be 200 years old in 2024, so we're already looking ahead to what we're gonna do for our bicentennial. It's a very close knit congregation, about 60 to 70 people who are just loving and generous, and it seems like very keen to meet needs in the community. Outreaching to feed people and clothe people.
Kim:And, so I that's my main thrust right now. Also, feeding people seems to be a passion of mine. So I'm involved in some ministries in the Springfield area that do that. United Ministries is an ecumenical, effort to give people a monthly food donation that cooperates with Second Harvest Food Bank and and, United Way. So I I volunteer there, and I've met some new church members through that and very thankful for that.
Kim:Another ministry is called Master's Table, and that just is kinda like a soup kitchen. Just whoever comes and shows up gets a hot meal, 5 days a week. Otherwise, I think in terms of ministry, I try to look at what Jesus sent us out to do and try to say whether I have some part in that in my life. And so when he said, you know, visited me when I was sick and fed me when I was hungry and clothed me when I was naked and visited me when I was in chains, I've tried to, you know, put some of my resources into ministries that are doing that very well. So IJM, International Justice Mission, and, Compassion International, and Doctors Without Borders.
Kim:There's another group called Buck A Day, which supports missionaries of all faiths around the globe. And so that's that's, kind of how I take ministry these days. I'm also still doing nursing about 3 days a month. I've been a nurse for 33 years come May, and I just love taking care of people. And, right now, I'm teaching nursing.
Kim:So that to me has always felt like a ministry as well.
T.J.:Well, Kim, let let's talk about how did you get into nursing? What is it about the nursing field that drew you to it?
Kim:Okay. Well, back when I was in high school, I guess, really growing up, I felt like I wanted to be a doctor. And so when I went off to college, I went to Vanderbilt for my undergrad, and they didn't have a pre med, major. You majored in some other area and then went on to medical school. And so I decided to major in nursing because I thought I'd get the anatomy and the medications, you know, and all that.
Kim:And as I began to do my clinicals, I saw that it was really the nurses that had their hands on the patients more than the doctors. And also, God was working in me to help undo my ambition. I was very driven, very achievement oriented. And I think God revealed to me that if that didn't stop in my life, I was gonna be a monster of a doctor. You know?
Kim:And so as he formed me more of a servant's heart, nursing just became the natural pathway for me more so than than medicine. And so I got into it, and I loved it, and just kept doing it. And and so many times I thought, wow, I'm getting paid to do this. But I just really enjoyed taking care of people. It's so gratifying, so fulfilling.
Kim:And, so about the time I graduated from seminary and was just had always thought I would retire from nursing and go into being a full time pastor, the pandemic struck right about the same time.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:And so, really, I was asked to stick around and do what I could, and that's what I've done. And my session has been very supportive of me doing that. I think they see it as a ministry too, and I come up with good sermon illustrations. My my congregation knows more about heart failure than any other congregation.
T.J.:So you you serve a well informed medical oriented congregation then?
Kim:Oh, well, I don't know. I've talked to them a lot about, what to eat and how to not be sedentary, probably, spiritually and physically.
T.J.:Well, let's go back to, your nursing days. Did you did you serve in a clinic, in a doctor's office, a hospital? What did that look like your early career?
Kim:Almost my entire career has been in critical care, so in the ICU, and may mostly cardiac critical care, so open heart surgery and heart transplants and things like that. I did when I lived in New Mexico, I did a stint as a nurse in the Intel Factory. That's, right outside of Albuquerque where they make microprocessors.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:And their factory room their manufacturing processes have to be more sterile than an operating room. And so if someone is in there and has a heart attack or fat passes out or whatever, then the emergency response person, which is me, would come running because they have 6,000 employees. So it was like a little city. I would come running and go in there and respond and take the person out or give them care or whatever. And, it was like creating a little ICU right there and then almost, but then they'd have to re sterilize it because I came in there without my any, you know, special garb or anything.
Kim:It was pretty exciting. But it's always been critical care. And so now that's what I'm teaching in helping new employees get oriented to the nursing basics at Vanderbilt.
T.J.:So your expertise in ICU and in critical care, does it lend itself to develop relationships with patients and their families?
Kim:I think, it's not just the knowledge. It's, the ability to step into their shoes or the ability to recognize that you need to step into their shoes and see what it looks like from their viewpoint, and a lot of times interpret what's going on in terms that other people can understand.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:And, you know, when I got into pastoral care and just recognize how incredible listening is, it's also, you know, listening to to understand whether they understand what you're telling them and then to, you know, reform your strategy on how to communicate. And so definitely the one miraculous thing about nursing that I have always appreciated and just it's such a gift that when you're there, in critical care especially, you walk into a room and the patient and the family immediately, there's this intimacy, like you can hold their hand, you can say something to them that's hard to hear, you can comfort them without having to, you know, do what you would normally do in a relationship to establish that level of intimacy. And it's just it's amazing and it's sacred and it's it's a it's a real gift. So I think whatever I kinda became comfortable with doing that is is a huge benefit in being a pastor
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:And just being able to connect with people and explain things in terms that are easy to understand and comfort, and reach out and hold a hand with courage. It it it it's the 2 vocations knit together very well.
T.J.:I would think that the medical field would require empathy or empathy would be an asset, in the caregiving for the patient but also for the family. Kim, do you think I've been wondering about this. Kim, do you think that empathy is a gift or a skill from your experience, from your perspective?
Kim:Maybe strong empathy is a gift. I think it is something that you can develop, especially as experiences in life. As you add experiences in life, you add more things that you can refer back to yourself and say, oh, wow. This is like that time that I experienced this. And when you're younger and start your career, you have less of that probably to draw on.
Kim:But I think, I've had mentors in nursing who probably helped that. And, you know, asked the kind of question like, well, how would you like it if you know, something something something. And if you got the ability to stop and say, how would I like it and not just let that go in one ear and out the other. I think you get your empathy can grow. So I guess I think it's both.
Kim:I think a tendency toward it is probably a gift, but I think it can be developed.
T.J.:Alright. Well, in terms of your Christian faith, in settings of sickness and dying and death, how has your faith spoken to you and encouraged you and and even healed you in times of your own loss and struggles?
Kim:Well, always I've experienced many people's moment of death, and it's always such a sacred moment. And I'm not sure if it's the same way with people who haven't an experience of the presence of the Holy Spirit. If they feel something and they just don't know what to identify it with, But for me, it's always an extremely sacred moment. And I think my faith is probably the thing that had has allowed me to be in nursing for 33 years without burnout and compassion fatigue and moral injury, which is largely responsible for the nursing shortage now.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:So I think, a faith that believes in a God who knows what pain feels like and knows what loss feels like has been very important as I've been with people and just been present with them. And hopefully ushering in the presence of God to them, that's just been I mean, how can you be burned out from that? So, and hope, you know, if I didn't think that there was going to be a place where we all come together again, where there's no pain and no suffering. I don't know that I could have survived 33 years of seeing people in pain and suffering. So that's been a huge, result of faith and belief in, what we have programmed for our future.
Kim:I also just, have come in my faith to think about the kingdom of God. I think when I was younger, I thought that that was heaven, you know? I think a lot of Christians, you know, believe that their whole lives. Like, thy kingdom come means, like, second coming come, and let's let's get on to heaven.
T.J.:Right.
Kim:But as I came to understand it to be possible and breaking in here and now in our lives, as you care for people and if you understand that that is the kingdom breaking in, you know, that's exciting and that that gives hope and that sustains us. So I kinda rambled around.
T.J.:No. That that's that's okay. I mean, I hit you with some cold questions about empathy and how your faith speaks to to your career, your in the nursing field. Kim, when have you felt really the closest to god, in your life? And it we've been talking about vocations and stuff like that.
T.J.:We think beyond just that. You know? A point in your life, a season in your life when you really felt the strongest presence of god?
Kim:Well, there have been a a couple really key points in my life, you know, often it's just a really low low when you're lifted up, and I can think of 1. I had just become a single mom of a 15 year old, and I was a night shift nurse. And I thought, this is not gonna work to be gone every night and leave leave a 15 year old at home. And,
T.J.:That is a recipe for excitement.
Kim:Yeah. It'd be definitely something. But, you know, and I was going through all this pain of loss, and and, I prayed, you know, and I tried to find a job. The the job I was in on the night shift, you know, there was nothing for day shift. And, you know, it was a door closed.
Kim:I could see in hindsight. I'm so thankful that that door was closed because I got away. I got, by myself. I drove and and took a road trip to visit my folks and came back and was just praying and praying in the car and crying. And it was one of those times in my life where I feel like I heard a voice say something.
Kim:And, you know, and I feel like God speaks to me in my maybe in my imagination, in my heart, wherever it is that you hear, whatever inclination you feel God has given you. But that sounded like a voice just saying, I'm gonna drop it in your lap. Because I was praying for a job and just for rescue, like, what was it gonna do? And so I drove back from that 400 mile trip and had to work the night shift that night, and, it came to me to apply to this hospital system that I used to work in. And their on the job posting site was the need for a critical care nurse educator.
Kim:And that and it was day shift and it was salaried, and it was just the perfect job. And so I applied right there and then that night, and they called me in the morning before I left work to come to an interview that day. And then I went to the 2nd round interview the next day, and I got that job. And that was just I loved it. I loved teaching new nurses how to be nurses, and, it was just a broader sphere of influence than just they're taking care of one patient each night.
Kim:And so just God led me through that door, and then it, I went on from there to end up at Vanderbilt, which was my dream job doing the same thing, just being an educator in the cardiovascular ICU. It was my dream job. And just to see how that got orchestrated in that that trip home and crying and praying and hearing that voice say, I'm gonna drop it in your lap, and he really did.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:So that was the moment that I think about. The first moment I can think about was I think I was 3 or 4 years old, and I remember this. And I was afraid in the middle of the night, and I went to my parents' bedroom, and I knocked, and I wanted to come in there and be with them. And my mom said, go back to your room and pray to Jesus, and he will keep you safe and and he will help you not be scared. And in my adult hindsight, I'm sure my mom was just trying to help me not form a bad habit.
Kim:And I I know I went back and I did that, and I know it was really the start that I remember
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:Of this relationship, you know, of sensing God with me. And, there have been so many just little things, but some really big impactful moments like the one where I heard the voice. So just keeps sustaining me and filling me and repairing me and sanctifying me.
T.J.:Well, have you always, felt faith connected or did you have a a specific experience, like in your life? Have you always attended church? Have you always felt connected to God? Do you have a story there?
Kim:You know, it was kind of a slow progress for me. My family took us to church. Mom and dad took us kids to church all the time, and I don't know I can't say this is the day I got saved.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:But we just grew up with faith in our house. And I have to say, I was kind of a goody goody. So, you know, as my faith formed, I feel like I kind of had some Pharisee tendencies. Now I wanted everybody else to be good and follow the rules and all that. And, I think I can point to a milestone in that journey where God kinda shook me up a little bit.
Kim:And I was in college, and I lived on this, hallway with a bunch of other young ladies. And one of our friends was really struggling. It looked like she was gonna fail. And another girl who we hung out in some Christian groups together called me out because I would I just couldn't believe how this friend of ours was coping in some very negative ways. And she called me out on, like, my lack of empathy, you know, and just called me a Pharisee, basically, and it really shook me up.
Kim:And and I had to look at myself and say, wow. I am a Pharisee. And I think that was a beginning, you know, for me of trying to continually examine that because I think those of us who grew up in church, you know, that's our temptation. So that, that was that was a good shift in my faith journey, but I think I've always you know, it's always been I don't feel like there was a time when I doubted my faith or anything like that. So it's just kind of been, peaks and valleys, but a general upward trend.
T.J.:Well, it sounds like that was a humbling experience. But, you know, you had it at a younger you had it at a younger age, you know, and you weren't I think the older we get, the harder it is to receive that type of feedback and take it well. Mhmm.
Kim:Well, that was the same time God was working on me about my achievement and my ambition. He was really working on me in college. So
T.J.:Let's talk about how did you go from a wonderful nursing career and then have a call into the ministry? Or well, you tell the story. But or how did you end up at seminary?
Kim:Okay. Well, I always loved teaching, taught Sunday school and bible studies and things like that. And I was an elder in my church in New Mexico. And the pastor, Harry Chapman, needed to have knee replacement surgery. And he asked me if I would preach while he was out that Sunday.
Kim:And with fear and trembling, I said that I would. And I found that the process of writing a sermon was really hard, but it was also, like, exhilarating to think about asking God to give you a word to give to the people. And I did that, and I delivered it, and he encouraged me so much. And I think that was the beginning of discerning a call to be a minister. Now life for a little while after that didn't really feel like that was possible.
Kim:And I had kids, you know, in junior high and about to go off to high school and everything. But when I became single and could just make all the decisions in my life, by myself basically, and the kids were pretty much, ready to be launched and all that, I thought what is my dream? And my dream was still to become a full time minister. And really, I thought nursing was ministry, but there are so many things in nursing that you really can't impact that underlie people's health problems.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:And, so that I, talked with my pastor at the time, brother Don Wynn, and, he he encouraged me. He said he thought he saw that calling on my life too, and I went for preview day at Memphis Theological Seminary and just got very excited. And I got myself enrolled there in the presbytery. Well, actually, 1st, the presbytery, went through that same kind of discerning process to ask, do other people see this calling on my life or is it just me? Because, it's always good to get other people behind you when you're gonna take on something where you're gonna get a lot of opposition.
Kim:And so they got behind me, and then it took me about 6 years because I was a commuter. And I I look at the people going on Zoom class today and think, oh, that would have been nice. So about a few 100 mile trek each way, at least one day a week for about 6 years, and I loved it. I grew so much. It was hard, and it was wonderful, And, more sanctification, which I also call sandpapercation.
T.J.:And how long have you been ordained?
Kim:It was August 2020 or September 2020.
T.J.:Wow.
Kim:So I'm coming up on 2 years this fall.
T.J.:Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. You mentioned Harry Chapman. He he was a previous guest on on the podcast.
T.J.:And then Don Wynn. Are there other individuals that have had a good impact on your faith journey?
Kim:Yeah. When I lived in Ohio 18 years, and there was no there's no CP churches in Ohio. There might be one near Cleveland. But, so I had I had a church, shop. And the pastor of the church where I really felt compelled to go was, he grew up Jewish and just was an incredible preacher and teacher and drew a lot of the Jew Jewish knowledge that a lot of Christians don't have access or haven't accessed and drew that in and just deepened my faith.
Kim:Also music was always a huge part of my life, and I'm a musician. And in that church, worship in music was a very personal thing, like, the emphasis would be on music that spoke directly to God versus, I think, a lot of our hymns are prayers and speak to God, but a lot of them are kind of about us and a kind of about, maybe about God versus speaking to God. And so just kind of more of that deepened my connection with God. And so that experience, that pastor, I feel like I really grew a lot. And in that church, I formed some deep friendships who are now, prayer partners with me.
Kim:And, that's a huge part of my life. Those are those are probably the main folks other than maybe some authors that have really impacted me.
T.J.:Well, let's take that side tangent. But first, you said you're a musician. So what instrument do you play?
Kim:I'm a pianist and a guitarist.
T.J.:Wow.
Kim:And I'm not the world's best at either, but I could lead worship in a pinch, and I love to sing.
T.J.:Alright. Now you had mentioned authors. So are there some books in your life that you have read that have impacted your your faith and your decision making and just your path?
Kim:Well, everything CS Lewis ever wrote probably has impacted me. And, I go back and read a lot of it, including The Chronicles of Narnia, probably at least once a decade. Mhmm. And they get better the older I get. And there's one book that he wrote, I'll kind of do a tangent myself, that I don't think a lot of people are aware of, called When We Have Faces.
Kim:And that has been just so impactful for me because, a few people in my life that I'm so close to don't have faith and don't understand faith, And that's the struggle of the protagonist of that novel. It's 2 sisters are the main characters and one sister falls in love with the character who represents God and the other sister doesn't understand it. And, I just so empathize with the sister who wants so badly for the Sister Without Faith to have faith and to understand how beautiful life can be with it. So if you haven't read that book and you know someone that you love so much who you don't understand why they they can't grasp faith, that's a beautiful book when until we have faces.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:Tolkien, there's an author who's a Quaker named Richard Foster that I really love and his book on prayer and his prayer his book on, discipline, Christian discipline, it's the, celebration of discipline. I go back and read that, you know, I've read that a couple times because all of it just, are just practices that deepen our our walk. Tim Keller is a more recent favorite of mine. I really love his writing. Les Miserables is probably my favorite novel of all time and to read about the life of the bishop at the beginning and how he passes the torch of faith to Jean Valjean And then to see Jean Valjean live out his faith through the rest of the book is just beautiful.
Kim:So those are probably my on my top shelf. Okay. And others, I have, like, 4 bookshelves full of books that I have, and then my office is filling up now too.
T.J.:I like the idea of revisiting books that we have read, you know, in a previous time. And I'm doing that as well. And sometimes it's like it's reading a whole new story, you know, being a little bit older or it's no longer required read, so I can enjoy it, you know, from from school at any level. And, you know, finding the richness in in many of the books and novels Mhmm. And stories, it's like, wow.
T.J.:No wonder I didn't grasp it the first time around. You know? I mean, there's something there's something about life experiences that that give you a perspective that the author is assuming that you have, and maybe you don't at the age of 14 or 24 or 34 or 44. And then going back and rereading, it's like, wow. Okay.
T.J.:This had more depth than I ever caught the first time.
Kim:Yeah. And scripture is like that. You know? We're we're a different person when we read that passage again.
T.J.:Yeah. Yes. Yeah. To find Jesus' words anew happens to me a lot. Mhmm.
T.J.:It does. Especially when I'm not reading it for sermon preparation, just study.
Kim:Yes.
T.J.:Yeah. Well, as someone who has had, well, has a foot in the medical field and a foot in ministry. These are 2 fields that are experiencing tremendous burnout, in the last couple years. I would argue that both of these vocations, both of these fields were stressed prior to the pandemic. It's just been it's just felt even more now.
T.J.:So as someone in a unique position of of having a career in both and serving in both, what do you do to keep healthy? What do you do to and that means mentally and spiritually and physically. And what advice do you have for all of us, whether we are in the medical field or not, whether we're clergy or not?
Kim:Well, I for one thing, I keep try to keep my body healthy. So I eat right. I do a Sudoku every day. I walk about 5 miles a day, and I'm learning I was learning Spanish, and now I'm working on French on in Duolingo. So just some things to exercise my body and my brain and take care of it.
Kim:And, spiritually, I've just, it over time, you know, peaks and valleys have recognized just what works for me, just what fuels me, and that is to just start the day with worship. So there's usually music right after I get up, and I and I'm worshiping with it. And reading scripture that is not for sermon preparation or bible study preparation, that's just for me to be in scripture. And prayer and intercession and then quiet time, that was when I was an ICU manager, there was very little quiet time in my life, but just time where I very intentionally focus on listening. If there's no praying going on, well, there's a little bit of praying.
Kim:You can't help it. But just listening and and focusing on being in God's presence and trying to receive versus trying to ask for something or talk about something. So and then as the another thing that really just keeps me there in that, you know, that starts my day, but just to keep that connection throughout the day, I've got phone alarms set on my phone. A couple of them are connected to scripture, like, at 9:38 AM and 9:38 PM. For Matthew 9:38, I just stop and pray.
Kim:Lord of the harvest, therefore, send forth workers into the harvest and send me. And so, and at before I was trying to discern where I was being called, part of that prayer was and help me, discern where you're calling me when, you know, once I once I graduate. So and then, I just have, you know, a couple other alarms set to stop whatever I'm doing and then just get back in the presence for just a second or 2 and ask God to rein me back in. So those are some things I do no matter what the day holds now. So and then, in school, in at MTS in in seminary, in the pastoral care class, we had to do a final project.
Kim:And I asked doctor Lee Ramsey if I could do mine on compassion fatigue and burnout and moral injury because it is so rampant in nursing and in ministry, which are two things I care very much about. And he agreed. And so I did a lot of research, on, you know, what it is and what causes it and what can remedy it. And one of the things that I found in doing all that work has really stuck with me. And that was the suggestion that we must lament.
Kim:And so I'm not really geared to be a person who laments a lot. And if I want to lament, I, like, stuff it in and I hold it all inside. But, to lament and just to share how things feel, I liken it in nursing to, if one nurse tried to pick up a 200 pound patient, he or she would be injured. But if you have 4 or 5 people in there and you all together pick up the 200 pound patient, you can do it because the burden is shared. And when you lament, you share a burden.
Kim:But the the, purpose of lament can't just be, you know, to vent or to complain or whine. That can't be the end of lament or there's no healing in it. The purpose of lament is to circle back around to doxology. And so, lament is meant to bring us back to worship. And so recognizing that that goes together has been transformative for me.
Kim:And I've shared that as broadly as I can share it, or and I continue to share it, but those two things that we must circle back around to worship because that's our purpose. That's what we're made for, and that's what brings us joy.
T.J.:So I know I've hit this with you cold, but in your research, how did that lamenting refill the well of compassion in terms of pastoral care?
Kim:Well, I think a lot of pastors tend to be people like me who stuff it, you know, and can't you don't have anyone that you cannot be ministering to, so how can you share a burden? But realizing that it's necessary to lament and share the burden, not like you're totally handing it to another person, but that another shoulder is is is under your is with your shoulder. And not just that, but I think a lot of Christians don't realize that you can lament to God. God hears our lament. And if there's ever someone who can shoulder our entire burden, it's God.
Kim:And so that freeing is is is restorative.
T.J.:And maybe, I'm just thinking out loud here, usually we are the givers of compassion, but it sounds like through the lamenting we can be the recipients of compassion. And that does sound like it's well filling, for sure.
Kim:Mhmm.
T.J.:If we're in the posture of being able to receive. Because I I would think, you know, in the medical profession and in, you know, nursing and for those who are ministers and serving congregations and chaplains, there's that there's a lot of giving, and sometimes there's not a whole lot of receiving. So I I like that. Maybe the lamenting is you know, opens up the door for the opportunity to receive instead of give. And that can be hard for ministers, people, humans.
Kim:Well, yeah. Especially for ministers and nurses. Like, you're not supposed to burden other people with your pain.
T.J.:Right.
Kim:You're supposed to be the one that that helps with the pain. So, yeah, I like how you put it though, the posture to receive.
T.J.:Mhmm. Well, you've given me a long list of, I asked you about to avoid burnout and how to keep healthy and spiritually. And you have quite a discipline. So for those of us who are not as disciplined as Kim Moore is, how did how do how do you ease into these spiritual and physical and mental disciplines? Because there's no way I'm going to wake up the next morning and just jump right into the practices that you have.
Kim:Wow. Gosh. How did I ease into it? I don't know. I think prayer probably should be the first thing.
Kim:And, because the connection, you know, fuels all the rest of
T.J.:it. Mhmm.
Kim:So I maybe a prayer for hunger and thirst. Because if you're hungry and thirsty to to be in the presence, to to be in the word, then nothing's gonna stop you from doing it.
T.J.:Yeah. I like that because you'll seek you'll seek it out for sure. Yeah. Alright. I'll start there.
Kim:One mile. Like, walk one mile and have meatless Monday. How's that? Alright.
T.J.:And there we go from doctor Kim Moore. This is a moment. This is a health moment from doctor Kim Moore.
Kim:Yeah. Less red meat.
T.J.:Kim, where do you see God God's presence in the world today?
Kim:Well, my my brain knows that it's everywhere, but there's a lot of blindness to it. So I think in friendship, in people being willing to put others before themselves, and people being willing to sacrifice luxury so that other people can have simple comfort, and inspiration and kindness.
T.J.:These are good examples for those who may not be faith connected to get little glimpses of what it's like to be in relationship with god, in friendship, in kindness. The I think these are good. If we were having a conversation with somebody who was not interested in knowing the person of Jesus Christ. I think these would be your thoughts would be good examples because we're all looking for these different things in our life, Whether we're faith connected or not. Well, as someone who has had a life in the church as a layperson and now as ordained and serving a congregation.
T.J.:From your perspective, Kim, what do you think now the church is getting right? What do you think the church is missing?
Kim:Well, when you say the church, it's so homogeneous now. What what is the who is the church, I guess? Because I see some people thinking one thing is the church and some people thinking another thing is the church. But I guess the commonality that I feel like that that if I could group all all of those churches together as the church, I guess, that we've not given up trying to serve God. Whether it's, however we're trying to do it, that is what we're trying to do.
Kim:So what are we missing? I think each generation at an early stage thinks outside the box and then clings to that and forgets that the next generation is gonna think outside the box and won't let go of their box. Does that make sense? Like, new wine and old wine skins?
T.J.:Right.
Kim:So, I guess I went into seminary with the thought that there have been times that the church clung to things that we no longer cling to. We clung to slavery is is justified in scripture. And we clung to keeping women from being clergy was justified in scripture. And I asked myself what I might be clinging to and just ask God to, correct me and, reveal the truth. So if the if if we're missing that if we're missing asking God to reveal the truth because we think we already know all the truth, then, we're not fulfilling all of God's purpose here on earth.
Kim:So I would say if you're doing that, then we're missing something.
T.J.:Oh, Kim. But that requires humility. And that's
Kim:hard. It is hard. And when you're supposed to be teaching everyone the truth, it gets dicey.
T.J.:Looking into the future, what hopes do you have for, the Church Universal and for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church? You can have 2 different answers.
Kim:Looking forward, I think, kind of what I see behind a problem with the church today, but something that gives me hope looking forward, is when I talk to young people who aren't really interested in being in church, pretty much the response is because the church isn't acting out what it says it believes. And so they're going and doing other things where they're acting out their faith rather than coming to church on Sunday morning. And so that kinda gives me hope that they feel sent. And that, you know, when when Jesus said go, that they're going. So that gives me hope for the church universal because I think that's across denominations.
Kim:For the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, I love our confession of faith. It it's so well written and when you know the history of how we arrived at this 4th version, it's amazing. And when you dig into it, it it it is really well written. And I and I think we have good guidance, we have a good polity to navigate things that have separated other churches. I think we can get through it.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:So I keep praying, and I keep hoping. I pray that hard hearts will be softened and that trembling hearts will be courageous.
T.J.:To go back, you, just for a moment and rest here, I thought of something that you had said that I never really thought of before. What if a generation, a current generation in this world actually holds the church universal accountable to what it says it is. Because typically, when we think, you know, we the church, we the church, holds the world or the culture or society accountable. But what if the roles have reversed? And it is the world that is saying, you need to live up to who you say you are.
T.J.:That's I need to think on that. I have never thought of that before, but there was something that you had said that made me think of. Yeah.
Kim:Well, Jesus shook up the religious people of his day by saying, you hypocrites.
T.J.:It it's interesting to wonder and ponder, can an outsider call accountability to an insider if we're talking about organizational church? That would be I'll have to ponder that. You got me thinking on something.
Kim:Well, when I was married to someone who did not believe in God, God used that person all the time to work on me.
T.J.:So, that may have really sharpened your argumental skills.
Kim:Oh, definitely. I read all the apologetics books so that we could argue. Oh my
T.J.:goodness. Alright. We'll have to put Kim Moore on the debate team.
Kim:You know what though? I realized you could make all the perfect arguments in the world, but it ultimately boiled down to, are you willing to surrender your life?
T.J.:Mhmm.
Kim:Your brain can know all the truth, But until your heart's willing to surrender control, all that truth doesn't matter.
T.J.:There is a difference between believing and living, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Kim, I've enjoyed our conversation. If others who have are listening wanted to know more about you and your faith journey, Where do you wanna point them?
T.J.:Does Mount Sharon have a Facebook page, or does Kim Moore have a Facebook page? Is there a website?
Kim:Kim Moore has a Kim Moore has a Facebook page, but hardly ever posts on it. I think the last picture of me is with a big zucchini last summer. Mount Sharon does have a Facebook page, and we have a community Facebook group. So you can personal message me if you wanna become a member of it
T.J.:Okay.
Kim:Just to avoid, you know, getting a lot of advertisements and whatnot. It is by invitation, but you certainly anyone is welcome to join it. We we do post on YouTube, and I try not to think about the fact that I'm being recorded every Sunday. We do livestream on Facebook, just because, you know, with the pandemic, that became a necessity, but we came to recognize that it was a great ministry tool. So those would be some ways that you you could, it, you could connect with me more or, email, reverend.kim.moore atgmail.com.
Kim:I'd I'd love to hear from anybody who wants to converse more.
T.J.:Alright. Kim, thank you so much for sharing today and for finally saying yes when I asked you to be a guest. I I have really appreciated it, and you have enriched my life, just by hearing your faith journey and getting some of your insights on faith. And so I appreciate you. I appreciate your time as well.
Kim:Well, thank you so much, TJ, and appreciate what you're doing. As we all we hear all of these faith journeys, it it's building us all up. So thank you for your ministry.
T.J.:Thank you. And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
