Leanne Kerner - It's Okay To Mess Up
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. This is the Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. Having a space to be authentic is important to today's guest as she shares her faith journey. Reverend Leanne Kerner is the director of Children and Youth Ministries at the Lake Highlands Presbyterian Church in Dallas, Texas. In our conversation, Leanne shares that it is in these safe spaces where authenticity can happen and we can be free to talk about where and when we've messed up or have had a bad day or to celebrate a good day. Join me in this episode on Cumberland Road as Leanne shares that in creating spaces for others gives everyone an opportunity to enter into a conversation and a relationship with God. Relationship with God.
T.J.:Reverend Leanne Kerner, thank you for joining me on the podcast. I wanna say the first time that I ever met you, you rattled me because I I didn't know and you you I don't know. You had made a comp comment about my, I don't know, being bald or something like that. And it took it took me back because I was like, who is this woman who I've never met, just calling it as it is? So I've come to know you and go, this is just who you are. You say what's out there, and you do it in a loving and humorous way. And from that, I have grown to enjoy our friendship. And I look forward to hearing your faith journey because I don't know it.
Leanne:Well, I'm really glad that struck you the right way. Sometimes I don't always, realize the crowd I'm in when I say something. Happens a lot.
T.J.:I just remember catching me off guard. I'm like, who is this? And for somebody I've never met before, it was just saying the obvious. You You know, you don't have a whole lot of hair. I don't remember how you phrased it.
T.J.:Was like
Leanne:I don't remember this at all, but I'm sure you're right.
T.J.:It was it was just out there. I was like, wow. Alright. So now it's my turn, and I get no. I'm just kidding.
T.J.:I'm not gonna do that on
Leanne:my podcast.
T.J.:So, Leanne, tell our listeners who you are, where you're serving, and what you've been up to.
Leanne:Yeah. I am Leanne Kerner. I am serving at the Lake Highlands Presbyterian Church, which is in Dallas, Texas, a part of the Red River Presbytery. I am the coordinator of youth and children's ministries. I am not an associate here.
Leanne:I get asked this a lot because it is a union church. It is PCUSA and Cumberland. The staffing ministers have to be hired every other. So Perron Rice is the senior minister. He was hired first, then they hired me.
Leanne:Since they're not a PCUSA between, I'm not an associate, which is which is fine. I still have a great life. Yeah.
T.J.:I mean, what changes does that make? That just kinda makes you more of a renegade? Or
Leanne:what? I I'm kind of a free agent. So, I mean, I guess, technically, the board of missions is supposed to approve a contract and kind of advocate for your position. And, you know, if the church tries to wrongfully fire you, get get your job back or make sure that doesn't happen. And that, I guess, could still happen for me in some ways as the board's board of missions is so involved in the church, but they don't have as much leeway and say in what my role is here.
Leanne:So I'm just kind of a free agent, which is fun, But I'm still a member of the Presbytery.
T.J.:Yeah. And it doesn't change the relationship that you have with the congregation and then children and youth in the church. It's almost a formality.
Leanne:Mhmm. I didn't have to have an installation service. That's great. You know? People are really into those for the snacks after you have a couple of them.
T.J.:I mean, that's the reason to be there is for the food.
Leanne:Exactly.
T.J.:Yeah. Who cares about the pomp and circumstance?
Leanne:I can read my bible at home.
T.J.:And then you don't have to worry about being uninstalled. That just seems like a foreign word.
Leanne:Mhmm. You're just you're just Resolving the relationship.
T.J.:That's right. You're like a baseball player who comes up for free agency every once in
Leanne:a while. I should get a jersey. Right. Right.
T.J.:Well, Leanne, we're here to talk about our faith and specifically your faith journey. I like starting our conversations with a question about recalling a meaningful experience with God, and that can be something that has happened recently, could be something from your past.
Leanne:Yeah. I looked at that question, and, you know, it's kind of hard to narrow down. I've listened to this podcast and I think, wow, they've really narrowed that down. And I just have to think the most meaningful experience for me is when I sit at a camp or a retreat or CPYC, and I usually sit in the back for lots of reasons. But and I just look out at the crowd and I'm just so excited.
Leanne:And I just see God so much in each and every person there. And I I look at that crowd and I think, you know, what what's God gonna do with them at this time? What how is God gonna use me in their lives? How's God gonna use them in my life? What are they going to grow up to be and to serve and do?
Leanne:And I just That's always so meaningful for me. So when COVID happened and for like the first time in my whole life, I didn't get to go to any kind of camp. I remember sitting at home and just feeling like I was really missing that excitement because it is just so meaningful. And I think that goes back to growing up, going to church camp and going to retreats and things. Sitting in the crowd was very meaningful for me.
Leanne:Just being away from life and being able to hear and see God in a new way or to hear and see people that, you know, had different experiences than me is just super meaningful every time.
T.J.:Alright. I like that because it's more of an observational perspective in terms of God working in the world and working through other people can be very meaningful to see those gifts and that growth occur.
Leanne:And I think it's particularly meaningful in youth, especially because they, you know, they grow up and I've had several classes graduate out over the years. And of course, I stay in the same vocation. But, know, just seeing what they're doing now. I talked to a former youth a couple of weeks ago and she's a nurse now. And she was telling me about working with kids and doing all kinds of different things in her pediatric unit and at the church she's at now.
Leanne:And it's so exciting just to see how little experiences like that shaped her.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Leanne:So I love it.
T.J.:Does it make you feel older?
Leanne:No. Not particularly. I really joke about age a lot. If any of my friends hear this, they'll be like, yes, she does. I regularly say, you know, like, you bend over and something kinda pops or, you know, if I stay up past 09:30, which is not a joke.
Leanne:Do go to bed early. I'm like, I am not 19 anymore, y'all. I've I've got to go to bed or I I have to eat three meals a day now because I'm not 19 anymore. So not yet. I think I'll get there.
T.J.:Mhmm. Obviously, working with children and youth, you have a great impact on on shaping people's lives and preparing them for for life and helping strengthen their relationship with God. What people have been placed in your life that have had a great impact?
Leanne:I feel like so many, honestly. I would definitely say Chris Fleming is one of them. You know, I was super young and didn't really know what I should do with my life. I did feel a call to ministry and I was just at Bethel roaming and the Margaret Hank Church, which is no longer that church, was in Paducah, which is where I'm from. He just sent me a Facebook message.
Leanne:He's like, hey. Would would you be interested in working with our youth and children? I was like, yeah. That sounds cool. So he's been super just encouraging and helpful to my life.
T.J.:Anybody else that stands out?
Leanne:Randomly, you know, I think a lot of times we think about people older than us, as people who have been impactful or something in our lives. Ian Taylor is just one of the greatest friends I could ever hope to have. And he is just constantly spreading love and kindness in a way that is just so refreshing, like such a joy to hear. And he impacts my life wonderfully, influences me. Also, I get a little sassy from time to time, particularly when I'm tired.
Leanne:And then I'm like, oh, this is all awful. And so he could really ground that out of me and and reframe it and make me think in a different way. And I just I appreciate that so much. I also appreciate the fact that the CP church is full of so many people that just kind of show up in your life at random times. You know, I can think about different folks that have just called me at a random time who not that I wouldn't value them as a friend or a colleague or anything like that.
Leanne:They're just not the person who I I would expect to call me, and they do, and they're an encouragement. So lots of people as well.
T.J.:Those are wonderful surprises, aren't they? Can be uplifting.
Leanne:Yeah. And I think that also reminds me to do the same. You know, I think about the the card I got when I didn't expect anything or the phone call or the text message or an email. And it reminds me that, I guess, to pay it forward, you know, to take the emotion or the joy that I felt when I received that kind of truly care and love and to pay it forward to others with anything just as simple as a text message or a birthday card or whatever.
T.J.:Well, having the opportunity to work with children and youth and, you know, you are in a position where you can really help in their formation. What is it that you share about your faith in Jesus Christ that, you know, keeps you grounded, you know, kind of your center to help children and to help youth in times of growing and turmoil and just this drastic change that comes comes at early ages, you know, into adulthood. What words do you share that's like, look, this is what centers me. This is what keeps my faith together and strong.
Leanne:Yeah. So I am I would say I'm a vocal processor, which really just means I kinda word vomit sometimes and and pretend that I'm actually having a conversation with someone. And my Do
T.J.:you do you do this in public in front of other people?
Leanne:Yeah. I mean, you know, like, if if you say, hey, Leanne. What do you think about this? I will tell you what I think, then ask you a question, then answer the question. And I I work really hard not to do it, but I know I do it.
Leanne:But I've always kept I mean, years. I can't I don't even know the first one I did, but I've kept a notebook for years. And I write the month, and then I write like prayer requests in it. So if you ask me to pray for something, I would say I will pray for it this month I'll write it down. Or if I'm really just feeling drawn to a particular name in my life, a particular issue, an ailment.
Leanne:Some people make it a couple months because they really need prayer, but I write those down and I pray about them every day. I have a sticker on my laptop that says, Girl, pray about it. And so that's really one of the things I encourage young people and, you know, not so young people to do is to really enter into that conversation relationship with God. I know a lot of the reason that works for me and is my vibe is because I am such a vocal processor and word vomit a lot. But that that's really my encouragement.
Leanne:And it's really cool, actually. I still have, like, all those notebooks. I mean, if it's you know, and I'll write little journal entries a little bit as I read a scripture or whatever sometimes. Or if I have a an idea, I'll write it down. And I've revisited those over different periods of my life, and I'm not a saver of things.
Leanne:Like, say this frequently. I sent the thank you cards for my ordination and threw the guest book away. Like, I am not a keeper of things. Yeah. But I I have kept those for some reason.
Leanne:It's probably it's probably five or six, you know, little journals. And I've just kinda flipped through them and just to see some of the things I prayed about that didn't happen, and I'm really glad or that did happen, and I'm really glad. You know, it's just it's been it's really cool to reflect on that from time to time.
T.J.:In terms of growth, you know, looking back in your own relationship, I mean, have you seen changes in you and your understanding of your faith? And and what does that look like?
Leanne:Because a lot of people
T.J.:kinda shy away from from going, oh, well, that's who I was, but I'm not that person Mhmm. Now. But you have the opportunity to go back and look and go, look, this is who I was. I'm not now, and I rejoice in it.
Leanne:Mhmm. I think, you know, I look at some kind of those, I guess, like requests is the appropriate word. I don't wanna say they were wimpy, but they, you know, it was like, it was just random things that I think about now. I'm like, that's not even important to my life or life in general. And kind of, I don't know, some kind of just idea when I think in terms of should I freak out about this is will it matter in ten years?
Leanne:I didn't used to have that philosophy. And I'm like, oh yeah, I really wasted time praying for that. Cool. So I definitely can see. And I think my prayers are more outside focus.
Leanne:You know, I used to, I would kind of write down things that I I felt I needed for my life. And now I write a lot of people's names and I write a lot of situations in the local church or in our denomination, or if something big is happening in the world, I pray for those people. So it definitely, to see my growth that way has been unique and challenging to continue. Well,
T.J.:as somebody who has formed their whole ministry with children and youth, what is it about that type of ministry that just stands out? What makes it rewarding? What makes it challenging? Why children and youth?
Leanne:I think part of it is that a lot of times and this goes back to the, know, I get a little sassy sometimes. I don't feel like people particularly care about it. You know? I hear a lot of people who say, yeah, we want a really big children and youth program, but the church is not invested volunteer wise. They're not invested financially.
Leanne:They really want the kids and children and youth to be quiet. They haven't made friendly welcoming spaces. They you know, there's just so many things they haven't done. And I think what a great church we have and then what a great church we will have if we invest in this population now. And if relationships are formed.
Leanne:And studies show churches that do intergenerational ministry thrive way longer than churches who do compartment ministry, which is they have only children's ministry, only middle school, only high school, only a third age, only young adult. If they do intergenerational things, they have a lot more growth for a lot longer. And just those relationships.
T.J.:I have in my travels and working with congregations, new and old congregations, that the youth group room, if there is one, or a nursery or children's room, is very telling in terms of what the objects are within the rooms. There's been times where I've walked into nurseries where there were toys that were there that were toys when I was a toddler. And the same for youth groups as well with posters would have been interesting posters when I was in a youth group. And those can be telling signs of
Leanne:If they're yellowed, we've too long.
T.J.:You know, or hand me down furniture and things like that, that those send messages to our children and youth in terms of how much of a priority they are into the life of the covenant community, the community of faith. Mhmm. And so, you know, rejoice in knowing that there are Lianz in the world to elevate and help carve out a space for children and youth in worship and in church life. So thank you
Leanne:for doing that. Well, I look forward to you know, I kinda do think this is trendier than it used to be. I haven't been doing this in the grand scheme of some ministers in the Cameron Presbyterian Church that long, but there are ministers that remember when no church had a paid youth worker or paid children's worker. And so I think I really look forward to the fact that every year I see new churches adding even just a part time, but a lot more adding full time youth and children's workers. And I think that's really exciting.
Leanne:And my hope is that that will really shape the church, that we have so many broad focuses in this in our local congregations, but also in our denomination.
T.J.:Yeah. And and there's growing, examples of even volunteers, non paid staff who aren't parents of the children and youth
Leanne:Right.
T.J.:Who are getting involved that there were few and far between, yeah, ten to twenty five years ago, but there's more and more of that, which I think is great. I I came up in a congregation that had a good children's ministry and a good youth program with paid staffing. And so it's interesting to me to find it in another context that it doesn't exist or it's difficult to to create.
Leanne:Yeah. And I think creating a space for people to volunteer. You know, I think churches do themselves a disservice when they don't have multi spaces for folks to volunteer. Because, like, I don't there's a lot of things I don't really have any call to in church. But lot of over the years, I've had a lot of Sunday school teachers that are retired elementary and middle school teachers, and they felt truly called to be a teacher.
Leanne:And now that calling's kind of gone because they've retired and they get to live it out in a different way. And that has been just so much fun. So I think if we don't keep those programs thriving and have lots of opportunities in them, then we're really doing our churches a disservice in our congregants.
T.J.:When you're working with children and youth, what aspects of your relationship with Christ, pours out and carries over when you are sharing your faith with various different age groups and also various different levels of understanding. So how do you match your faith sharing with multiple age brackets? What does that sound like? What does that look like?
Leanne:Well, I'm a little type a about that. I do have I have something very sectioned out. Most of the time, you know, you kinda go with, like, age groups so we can get on that level. But I don't I don't wanna say Jesus didn't care. I I think Jesus let a lot roll off his back that wasn't important.
Leanne:And I really want, you know, young people to know that it's okay to mess up. Like, it's okay to come in and be angry. Like, it's okay to have a bad day or to celebrate a good day or to, you know, to be frustrated with someone. You know, I think those are all emotions that Jesus had, and we see those. And so I really just want to always create a space where you can just be you.
Leanne:You know, I feel like I feel like most of the time I'm always me, you know, sometimes I might put on the appropriate clothing for a time or maybe stay a little quieter because it just happens. But I I definitely want young people to be who they are, which I think when we do that, we get a lot more content than we would normally. Like, we get to know them a lot better. We get to see what they need in ministry and what who Christ is to them and hear questions. Like, I don't ever want a young person to be afraid of me, or or any of the volunteers.
Leanne:So I think that's super important is just a comfortable space.
T.J.:Yeah, we were talking before we started recording the podcast about relationships. And if we are inviting people into a relationship and they're not comfortable, that's a that's a strange relationship to to begin to have Right. To begin on if if you're not totally comfortable in being vulnerable. And who more vulnerable to be than God? You have Mhmm.
T.J.:To be able to share in ourselves completely. So to have those spaces and have those opportunities to establish a relationship like that in early on is important. Mhmm. What you do is important, Leanne.
Leanne:I hope so. I enjoy it.
T.J.:Well, Leanne, where are you seeing God work in your life today?
Leanne:Yeah, I definitely, I think about this a lot, actually. And it, you know, it goes back to I'm tired of hearing it. I'm tired of saying it, but I will say it. It really goes back to this whole kind of twenty twenty pandemic. So one of the cool things is, I was hired at Lake Highlands January of last year, the January, moved in March, spent a really great week exploring Dallas with my best friend and sent her on a plane back home.
Leanne:Then this little pandemic hit, you know, we were all gonna be home for two weeks, which was fine. I really needed a good nap. And then it just kept going. So one of the ways I'm really seeing Christ in my life is the fact that we get to build programs for the people of today. You know, kind of everything was closed.
Leanne:We didn't really have anything going. I sent out, like, mail packets and did some Zooms like everyone else. But I really get the chance now to say, what do you need? And then we start from scratch. And that's been really cool.
Leanne:You know, we don't have to say, well, we used to because we used to was gone. You know, we had a whole year. It was gone. That's honestly been so, so fun. And it feels like I was kind of feel like ministries kind of spinning plates a little bit.
Leanne:Like, you spin them all and sometimes one drops and then you put a new one up there and you've just gotta balance everything. And it's been really fun to focus on each area and build something the right way rather than make do until we get around to fixing it. And it's honestly, it's been so fun. And we still got more building to do and more things to do and more goals. But for now, I'm just having so much fun doing that and really see God working in so many different ways.
T.J.:And what is that doing to your relationship? Is that strengthening it? Does it make you laugh? How are you responding to seeing seeing God working in this way even in the midst of, well, really great turmoil and struggle in the last almost two years?
Leanne:Yeah. I get really excited about everything. I mean, I'm one of those people who says, do you wanna go get McDonald's at midnight? And I prefer to it as an adventure. And we're just gonna ride in the car for ten minutes.
Leanne:I get excited about everything. So I feel like I'm really excited about it. I do put every new project, you know, on my prayer list and really just pray about it before we kind of start it and then after it. So it's just been really exciting to see people respond to it and to really feel like I've had time to establish a direction based on the the calling for the ministry. And we're working on a new one right now.
Leanne:So I I also like to put names on things. So with Lake Highlands, we're gonna label a lot of our programs with water names. So our biggest one right now is the pond, and that is worship care for infants through pre K, so like an old school nursery. But also it is care for our friends with special needs of all ages. And that's been really fun because we reached out to the high schools and got some of their staff from the special education department, we've gotten to bring them into the church.
Leanne:And they, you know, they weren't active attenders of church. They they identified as faithful people, and they really support what our church believes in and does. And that's been so exciting.
T.J.:Wow. That is really, really neat. So, Leigh Ann, let's shift gears for a minute. Let's talk about the denomination that we are a part of. Let's talk about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and what ideas that you have for it, what hopes that you have for our denomination looking into the future.
Leanne:I would hope that I have a lot of hopes. And I really, you know, I love the denomination. But I would really hope that more people could experience the love and fellowship that I've received from this denomination. We look at the decline of churches and denominational numbers across the board, not just ours, and more people that are not attending on Sundays. And I would hope that our churches would focus on sharing love with one another so they would wanna come be a part of this great family.
Leanne:And I really know, sometimes every family has its has its rough time, but I definitely feel like the CP Church is a family. You know, sometimes someone will send me, like, a Facebook request, and I don't know them. I've probably met them somewhere, but I've got 300 mutual friends with them and they're all CP. I'm like, yeah, we'll add them. You know, this this looks real.
Leanne:But I definitely think there is a a community and a fellowship within this denomination like no other. And I've worked with a couple of other denominations for various activities and the closeness is just not the same. You know, I think about and it changes a little bit because you're used to you had to go to Bethel College and MTS to seminary. And now you do whatever you want. And I think I would probably say my class was one of the last, like, to go to Bethel, have to go to MTS classes, which is great.
Leanne:I support everyone going where they feel called or what works best so they can enter into ministry. But I think about I went to college with all these people and now I work at CPYC with them or I go on vacations with them because they're my family. You know? Or I went to seminary with these people and now we serve on a committee together. And so I just I think that community is so important.
Leanne:So more of that. More of us taking the love, the fellowship, and the community and bringing people in it to also just see Christ that way.
T.J.:Alright. Any other dreams or hopes that you have for the church?
Leanne:You know, like I said earlier, I would really like to continue a precedent of youth and children having a seat and a voice at the, I guess, the table, if you will. I think that's really important. I think and I'll I'll say this, and I'm in no way paid to say this. I think our denomination does a great job offering outlets for us to plug into our local congregations. And I think it's the congregation's turn to figure out what works best for them and push forward because there's so many great young people that deserve to be reached out to that are worth it.
T.J.:Right. There's opportunities to allow our children and youth to to try out the leadership roles.
Leanne:Yeah. Yeah. You know, if it doesn't, well, they can still be active in other ways. You know, some people like to silently serve and and that's also needed.
T.J.:Right. Right. Leanne, how can we continue to follow you on your faith journey?
Leanne:I randomly post pictures on Instagram. So there's that.
T.J.:Okay.
Leanne:But I would say, you know, the Lake Highlands Facebook page and Instagram are a great way. If you see anything for kids and youth, I've probably posted that. And just, you know, I'll I'll keep going to denominational events. So I love talking to random people and and visiting. So I'm happy to to see anyone.
T.J.:That's true. You randomly came up to me. That's how we met.
Leanne:Well, I decide everyone's my friend before I meet them sometimes. So, you know, you know.
T.J.:Well, Leanne, thank you so much for sharing your your faith and your journey and how God is working in your life.
Leanne:Thank you for having me.
T.J.:And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with us on our next journey down Cumberland Road.
