Leslie Johnson - Restoring To My Soul
Exploring faith journeys and hearing inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God, you are listening to The Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. Today's guest is Reverend Leslie Johnson. He is a 2nd career minister and a church starter. He is serving the Eastlake Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Oklahoma City. In our conversation, Leslie shares his faith journey, what it's like to start a new church, and how has it allowed him to have a fresh perspective. Leslie talks about his life experiences and how they can stretch our approach in the way that we do ministry. You are listening to the Cumberland Road podcast, and here is my conversation with Reverend Leslie Johnson.
T.J.:Leslie Johnson, thank you for joining me on the Cumberland Road. If you don't mind, take a brief moment and introduce yourself.
Leslie:My name is Leslie Johnson. I'm the pastor of the Eastlake Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Oklahoma City. Been here about 15 years. Came out of Austin, Texas from the Cumberland Church there, served there and in Arkansas and here in Oklahoma City. I'm on the board of missions, chair of the board of missions for Red River Presbytery.
Leslie:I've done work with Mission Synod. Lots of different things that are going on and looking forward to, the questions and the discussion here.
T.J.:Alright. Well, thank you for joining me. Leslie, let's talk about your relationship with God. And do you have a story, a memory, an experience that really impacted you and your faith and and your life in general? And that can be something that that happened this week or years ago.
Leslie:I've had a couple. Being on with Mission Senate as the chair. I had one with the Choctaws, with Choctaw Presbytery. Enjoyed getting to know them and was blessed by them, and definitely felt God's presence in them. And, one of the great things about getting out of your own local area is seeing something bigger.
Leslie:But the Choctaw has blessed me in a way that, that would just it was very meaningful. I felt God moving in them and came to love those people and their love for me. So that was 1.
T.J.:If you don't if you don't mind, just for those who may not know, if you would kinda briefly describe Choctaw Presbytery, the Cumberland Presbyterians, and and what that may look like in this denomination and that sort of thing.
Leslie:Choctaw Presbytery is a small presbytery in Southeast Oklahoma. It consists of just a few churches, a very devout people, a very humble people, a people that have struggled for years with their Christianity, with being American, with Choctaw. They're very much Indians, and I love them for that. They do things a little differently. It's a Presbyterian that needs a lot of prayers, a lot of work.
Leslie:They've lost some dear, sweet people in the last few years. COVID has hit them very hard. There are people, though, that are very devout in their faith, and they continue trying to be who they are, Choctaws. They sing in Choctaw during their service. They can break into to little jokes and stuff that are very Choctaw.
Leslie:I don't understand them, but I feel the flavor and the the sheer joy of these people. So it has been just good getting to know them. If you ever get a chance to visit them, they are very humble people. Their churches are very humble, but they are very loving people, and they will return that love with all the dust gusto that they've got. And, you'll probably learn a little bit of Choctaw and, how they can bless you and just in the way that they do things, in the way that they handle life, it's, it's a good experience, good people, people I've dearly come to love, and, they're definitely in my prayers.
T.J.:In your relationship with the Choctaw, what has deepened? What has changed you? What has impacted you as a person in your ministry that you have drawn from the Choctaw people?
Leslie:To watch their humbleness, their simplicity of life, their care for each other. Choctaws are about family. That's something that is very important to me and something that we've kinda lost in the greater mess of things, but they're very much about family, and that stuck with me about taking care of each other, almost to a fault, but it's such a blessing to see them, and that stuck with me. Their humbleness, their, love of god and love for what god has done for them and down through the ages, just to watch them and to listen to them and learn from them.
T.J.:Now I kinda took you on a side tangent there. You were going to tell another meaningful experience.
Leslie:I had another meaningful experience also dealing with Mission Synod. 4 or 5 years ago, we went to got to go to Columbia to start help start the the new presbytery there, Emmaus Presbytery. And I found a group of people that I had never known. I've heard of them over the history. The Wallaces and other people that have ministered, the Collegio Americana that's down there, the school, the other schools that are there, and I found an absolutely loving, humble people that are so diverse.
Leslie:You would be in a meeting, and there would be every color, every different kind of person, all speaking the same language, which I don't speak Spanish. Once again, it's a language thing. But to listen to them, their love for you and their concerns for their country, They were kind of going through a a renaissance then. The, the the deal with the rebels had backed off. There was actually some calmness, in the area, some rethinking.
Leslie:And to see these people so caring the way, once again, it was about family. It was about taking care of business. One of their ways of starting churches is go 30, 40 miles from where an existing church is and find a ministry, usually involving children, families, and begin there and then build it into a church, just to watch them in the blessing, the prayers that were said for me there. I didn't have to have the same language. You could feel the prayer.
Leslie:You could feel their presence, the presence of god there. But to walk in a place that, you'd never been before, but you knew god had been there. And to stand there with these people, to help them start that new presbytery, to see some of their pain, some of their suffering, but to see the joy and the wonder and just the sheer, cheerfulness of the people and, the love that they had for each other and for a complete stranger that walked into their midst that from from the north. Of course, I'm originally from Texas, so I told them that's where I came from, and they were like, oh, Texas. They knew all about that.
Leslie:But it was just a just a wonderful experience, and we had a prayer meeting, at the end of one of their meetings. And to feel the person behind me, once again, my name, he mentioned my name. I don't even know who it was, but the love and the prayer that was given there, the Colombian people blessed me through that, and it, something I took with me since then. I know we quite often wear robes and things like that. I don't wear a robe anymore.
Leslie:I've been much more laid back trying to teach my church how to do church even if I'm not present and to free me up to do other things, like work on the board of missions, to work with other churches, to to to work in the greater picture of things. And so I I brought that home with me, and that changed a lot of the way I do ministry. A little more laid back, a lot more getting the elders trained and up to so that they could serve. But just to see the change. And once again, the humbleness, and the the prayer, the love that they had for their God, and for their people.
Leslie:And Columbia, there's 3, presbyteries down there now, and they are doing work all over Columbia, and all over Central America, and indeed, out of there goes some of our our our ministries to Spain and around the world. So it's really good to see that. It was it was restoring to my soul to see the church actually having these kind of successes, things that we we've we've we've worked with and tried to overcome inside the United States. But to watch these people just in circumstances that were horrible sometimes, go and do great things. I wish we could all go down there every once in a while and visit with them, visit with somebody different at the Choctaw's, our Hispanic workers, anybody.
Leslie:Go see something different. It makes a difference in your life, and you'll bring that home with you. And, it'll change the way you do ministry.
T.J.:Leslie, you've shared some experiences you've had as a synod moderator that have been pivotal to you. Is there a time in your life where you can think of where your faith journey began?
Leslie:Not really. My parents were were members of the of the Presbyterian Church in Austin. My mother played the the piano and the organ. My dad taught Sunday school. They were very involved in the church.
Leslie:I can still remember little pieces of sermons from the from the pastors. One of which caught me. We'd all kinda gone half to sleep, and he clapped his hands. And I can still remember this. Kind of a wake up call.
Leslie:And, from then on, I listened a lot more. And, but just the the the growing up in that, there were a couple times after we got married. We came into the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. My wife had a mutual friend. We're married by Lois Estes in the church in Austin, which unfortunately is now closed.
Leslie:And, they just recently, tore the building down. So it's been a sad spot in my heart, but fond memories of of the faith there. It was hard. It was difficult, but just to to listen and to learn and to, to to find that point where you begin to suddenly realize that, you'd go to the church and Charles Hughes was there, and I'd say, Charles, there's something eating me up. I can't figure out what it is.
Leslie:And we got to talk, and he started laughing. He says, do you know what a call to the ministry is? And I said, no. And he began to explain it. And I was like, so that's what I've been running from.
Leslie:So that church, just through my wife, through what else was going on in life then, kinda brought me into the Cumberland Church, and, I found a place where I could learn, grow, explore who this god was and what, Christianity was and, learn about a people called Cumberlands, which I found very humble. It is a beautiful theology, and it attracted me. And it took a few years, but finally, the good lord caught up with me and said, let's take this calling to the next level.
T.J.:Well, let's talk about that for a moment. So you answered a call to the ministry, the word, and the sacraments a little bit later in life. So what were you doing in terms of a vocation prior to what you're doing now?
Leslie:At that particular time, I was kind of, not I had no particular focus of where to go. I was buying and selling used equipment. I had been in the printing business for a while and managed a small print shop. I kinda floundered around in life, but, when I came into that church. And it did take me 11 years to work my way through pause and come up through and finally get to the pulpit.
Leslie:But in the meantime, I did a lot of work in there. But, that's where where where where it all where it all began to come into focus. And it took a little while, like I said, coming to life, coming into the the ministry later. But on the other hand, I knew a lot of things that were very handy to, my ministry and to life at that time.
T.J.:So from your perspective, do you think entering into the ministry is easier if you've got some years behind you? Or do you think it's easier if you're just, you know, young and and this is your perhaps first and only vocation?
Leslie:That's a personal question that, you have to work through each one of you. Coming in older, you come in with your eyes a little more open. You've been around the world a little bit. You've seen a few things, and you're a little cautious on taking that up. When you're young, not to say it doesn't happen there too, but when you're younger, you tend to have that bravado.
Leslie:You don't have to worry so much about wisdom. You can just drive on through and get it done. The end may end up about the same place, but it's definitely a different journey. Coming in older, you see things differently. You've experienced having children.
Leslie:You know you bring that all into it. There's a lot of different things that way. Both ways work. It depends on who you are. Can't put one over the other.
Leslie:It's kind of like going through the the alternate studies as opposed to seminary. You can't you can't weigh them the same. Both are valid. Both work. Both can make a difference.
Leslie:Both can produce really excellent pastors and leaders, and both can produce idiots and fools. So you you have to work through it. You have to work through it. Both are processes that can make it happen.
T.J.:Yeah. I've asked you a loaded question and, unintentionally. But you're right. It does depend on the individual and the context and the circumstances.
Leslie:I love those loaded questions. Meaning comes out of it. Right. Hopefully.
T.J.:Leslie, thinking of all the people that you've encountered over the years, who were some that impacted your life and how?
Leslie:I've had professors at, believe it or not, University of Texas that, taught me a lot, but, Loyce Estes, his love, Loyce and Trudy and and and the the church there had a great influence. Charles Hughes, he and his wife definitely influenced us a lot. It was unfortunate he wasn't there all the way through the process. He was the one of the first Cumberlands I went and talked to. Well, what does this all mean?
Leslie:And with tongue in cheek, we worked through it, and, that was a blessing there. But my parents, both being involved in the church, my wife, just lots of different people in the church. It's hard to pin it down. We've had incredible people. We've had other people that have kinda tilt your head and look at, like, wait a minute.
Leslie:I can learn from this, but what am I supposed to learn? But just just put and, of course, god in the midst of all this, putting all of this together. It's been an interesting journey. It's been a long one, but one that, that has had meaning and has done a lot for for myself, and I hope for the people around me that I've ministered to and been a part of their lives.
T.J.:Now you have experience with starting a new church or being a part of a group in its early stages, what wisdom would you share from your experience for those who have never done it before, for those who may be thinking about it, and, of course, also from a perspective of, hey. You should try this. It's really great.
Leslie:Well, I will say try it. Every pastor has a different calling, though. Some pastors are great. They chart start churches. They build them up.
Leslie:They make that happen. And quite often, that person needs to move on because you have a different kind of pastor that comes in and sustains it and builds on what was built before. It's always a team effort. And one of the things, if you're gonna try to try to start a new church, it's not your church. It's God's church, and you've gotta step back every once in a while and, quit trying to make it in your image or what you think ought to happen and let God guide.
Leslie:It's not easy. It is an adventure. I have never been in well, for a long time, I've not been in a church that has lots of money, but I've never been in a church that went lacking anything. East Lake Church was a new church development. We had we had 24.48 acres, and this church that was very humble built in it.
Leslie:Our sanctuary is is tried different things. Our sanctuary is basically a gymnasium. It's got basketball goals in both ends. It's very humble. It's nothing fancy.
Leslie:I would have a hard time, let's put it out there, being in a traditional church. I can move the furniture. I can rearrange things. We can do things differently. Experiment.
Leslie:You've got to to learn your place in that church. The church has to learn its place in the community. It definitely has to have outreach into the community. It's got to touch the community. And, for part of that, I say partner with anybody that is doing the kind of work that you do.
Leslie:We partnered with a company. It's it's actually through the state. So we're working with the state, and it's been great. It's with aging services, and they do concrete meals. Most kitchens in most churches anymore will not stand up to the health codes, But they produce the food, they cook the food and all that about 20 miles from us, then they deliver that to 6 different sites, and we distribute it.
Leslie:So we take care of the all the health I mean, it gets expensive. You can spend 40, $50,000 getting your kitchen up to code, or you can partner with somebody who can handle it. They supply the the, the people that work there. They take care of all of that. They do all the distribution.
Leslie:We provide them a place, but that's become a second congregation to us. It's become a minister, not just our people, but to the local community. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, work with what you're given. Expensive programs can be great, but simply work with what God gives you. If it's old folks, it's old folks.
Leslie:Had a pastor 2 pastors were telling me a story. They were trying to start get their church up and running, and they tried every program. It was a younger pastor. He'd gone through all this stuff, And the older pastor stepped back and said, Bill, let me share something with you. Go with what you got.
Leslie:And the young pastor says, oh, we've got old folks. And he said, go with what you got. So they did. And they spent a couple years ministering to all kinds of places, nursing homes, places where elderly was, and turned around and discovered they had 15, 16, 20 kids in their youth group. Grandmas and granddads raised their grandkids quite often It worked.
Leslie:Go with what you got. You know, you know, whatever works can can be made to work with care, with with due diligence. But, it's an adventure. Any church adventure, and you need to, in a way, run your church as if you're a new church development, but also as if you've been around 200 years. One of the nice things about, Eastlake is we have very little baggage.
Leslie:There's very few sacred cows wandering around our property. It's a good bunch of people. It's small. Do not let size bother you. Small church can have a tremendous impact.
Leslie:It can work. It can make a huge difference. It's also a chance to start fresh, think things through. Don't throw away the wheel. It works.
Leslie:But understand how you need to attach it, how you need to put it together. As you got an opportunity in in a new church to assemble some new things. Use the old. Use the new. See what works.
Leslie:You be willing to experiment. Try a few things. Occasionally, it's gonna blow up in your face. Occasionally, it's gonna have incredible results. So, give it a try.
Leslie:See what happens. Every church is somewhere between bursting at the seams and closing. Enjoy that. Work with it. And if it does fail, we've never closed church.
Leslie:We've closed a building, sold a piece of property, but the people, which is the church, have always moved on. Hopefully they stay cumbly, but if they don't, they've still learned something and they can take that. The church doesn't die. People move on, which is sad. The building is if if we didn't have to have buildings, it would be a lot less expensive.
Leslie:But where would you put your stuff?
T.J.:Alright. Leslie, thank you for sharing. I like what you said about embracing the experimentation. And, you know, that takes a brave leader, brave leaders, but also the group as well, and and a trust in the, faithfulness of of god. And you've got, 15 15 years of trial and error that I wanted to, tap into to Oh, yeah.
T.J.:To hear from you. Leslie, you were talking about that you you grew up in the church, and sometimes I think that as Christians, we we have difficulties separating life of the church with a life and relationship with god. So if you bumped into someone who didn't have the background of growing up in a community of faith and and kind of immersed in that experience, immersed in the relationship with god, how would you share the good news with them? Because they may not have the language or the vernacular or the understanding as someone who who has always attended and and grew into this discipleship. Maybe they didn't have a lightning bolt experience of a god encounter.
Leslie:The invitation to come and see, to come and try to explore, to come and sit at the feet of a teacher. And Jesus came and if you look in all the scriptures, a lot of what he did was to teach. He didn't go in challenging people. He walked in and simply taught. And the invitation and you have to know the person a little bit to know how to invite them.
Leslie:Once again, the vernacular, the words we use can be the very barrier that we're trying to to get rid of. But to approach them and get them at a level where we can sit down and discuss, you can sit down and talk to people. They know that they're welcome. And, I'm fortunate. Eastlake is a very welcoming church.
Leslie:We have people that have been Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, all kinds of people, unchurched people, that have come in. Some of them walk back out, but a few of them, they feel the invitation. And that's the the to feel the the the welcomeness, the we're not going to judge you. The come as you are. Bring all your baggage, whatever you've got.
Leslie:Come as you are. We're not gonna judge you. We're not gonna throw you out. We're gonna love you as the best we can, but the prayer is that you don't leave as you came. We're not gonna force it.
Leslie:You're gonna find out how to change, what you need to change, what the adjustments are, how to come to know this god, and not as a religion, but as a personal relationship with god. Religion gets in the way, and we quite often turn to religion, the things we do, but I don't wanna introduce you to a religion. I wanna introduce you to God, to this Jesus, to the Holy Spirit, to this this power of creation, to this love, respect that is out there that I believe would be to your benefit. Come and see. Come and listen.
Leslie:Experience it. Explore it. Try a few things. See what see what see what touches your heart and your soul. But, I'm gonna I'm gonna do my best not to not to trip you up or or trick you or judge you or beat you with anything, but to simply out of the love and respect that God has for myself and for you, teach you.
Leslie:Come and listen. Come and listen.
T.J.:In your own words, what is your relationship with godlike today? How do you know and how do others know that god is working in your life right now?
Leslie:Once again, it's not by something that you could say or or even even necessarily do. It's just it comes down to the the the way that we are. Your faith shines out through your eyes, your words, your the motions of your hands, the way you walk, the care that you love your fellow human being from. It's something that they can feel. My kids always loved it.
Leslie:Dad, we can't take you anywhere because we'd go through the Walmart, and I'd be talking to every I didn't care who you were. I'd be talking to the clerks. I'd be talking to people that were you know, look like they needed help. You walk through, and it's just and part of it was I didn't choose to talk to them. They choose to talk to me.
Leslie:And some people chose to walk away, run, or would argue. But you you you just I guess it's that openness and the openness that they have. You can watch God moving in their life. Mhmm. Yeah.
Leslie:I've seen little miracles all around. I've seen people that have been cured. I've seen people that have been touched, but most of it is people's hearts. Their souls are looking for something, and they sense that in in in myself or the church, and they wanna come and find out what it means, where it's coming from. And it's great.
Leslie:You you don't have to you don't even have to even say I wear a cross, which helps a little bit, but there are people, and I've met them, that you meet that you just feel it, the saying may the Christ in me meet the Christ in you. And, sometimes those people don't even realize what the prompting is coming from. They're simply looking for somewhere, something, and they happen to look up in the middle of a Walmart or somewhere and go, wait, there's somebody that something different. I wanna know about it. And the doors open then.
Leslie:And you don't judge them. You you simply say, hey, this is this is what I've seen. You tell your story. Don't make anything up. Don't embellish it.
Leslie:Don't undermine it. But very simply, tell them your story. You know, I've met the Lord, and he's done these things. He's shown me these things. And he both gives us salvation and, a life to come, but he also, right now, today, in your everyday walk, he's here for you.
Leslie:He builds governments. He builds societies. Listen to him. Even if you're up another religion, listen. Listen to the teachings.
Leslie:Maybe you don't like God. You've got your own. Okay. We'll talk about that later. But just listen to the teachings.
Leslie:Listen to it. Love, respect each other, even your enemies. Does your religion do the same? And then my favorite question is you ask somebody, well, I've got it all figured out. How's that working out?
Leslie:Alright. I'm not gonna tell you. You just ask, how is it working out? As soon as they kind of hang their head and go, not too good. But, yeah, it's
T.J.:I'm intrigued by those that have it figured out. I'm drawn to them because I'm I'm wondering
Leslie:What can I learn?
T.J.:Right. Right. Absolutely.
Leslie:Yeah. Yeah. And you find there's well, as we reach out to people, there are those that know they're needy. Those are easier. They know they have a need.
Leslie:They have problems. They've got, you know, but there's an opening there. The hardest ones are those that are arrogant, that haven't think they haven't figured out. I don't need any help. I'm good.
Leslie:And, okay, they may be tough to an extent, but what are they gonna do when the money runs out? What are they gonna do when cancer shows up and there's money doesn't do a whole lot for it? What are they gonna do when a good friend dies? What are you gonna do in these serious things? You know, there's the difference.
T.J.:Yeah. Seeking seeking purpose, seeking meaning in life and in death, and and how the Christian faith speaks to both of those and to all of those.
Leslie:And being that kind of person, child of god, that people feel welcome to ask questions. I'm also big into people asking questions. Jesus loved to ask questions. His disciples loved to ask questions. We need to ask questions.
Leslie:We need to think about our questions. Some of them, yes. They're kinda ridiculous, but they may need to be asked. Others are incredible questions. There's more theologian in us than we think.
Leslie:Oh, there are theologians. There are those guys that sit out there in the in the seminaries, and and they think these things through and then tell us about it. No. Each of us has a little bit of a theologian in us. We better have, because god god gave you a head and a brain, and he said, please use it.
Leslie:Ask questions.
T.J.:Well, I know we kinda pushed aside the institutional aspect of the organized religion of the Christian church. But I do wanna ask you, Leslie, what hopes and what ideas do you have for the church in the 21st century?
Leslie:We got a lot of work to do. Organized religion, organized Christians, come together, and I would say the biggest thing that we need to to sit down and do is quit arguing about things, discuss it, teach, look into the word. And in the list of sins in Galatians, it starts out with a a number that we're big on, but down at the bottom is causing division, causing factions. We've gotta be careful of that. And the church right now is all our denominations, all of Christianity is quite fractured, and we forget sometimes to come back together.
Leslie:One of the things that I love about Cumberlands is we can work with other denominations. We can work with other peoples. The church is bigger than us. I believe we have a beautiful theology, a beautiful way of worship, very practical, Christianity. But we need to be teachers.
Leslie:We need to be teaching. People come to us, well, which is right or wrong? We can just tell them that only solves part of the problem, but a teaching church. I'm a teaching pastor. I love to teach.
Leslie:Preaching is great. Nah. You know, some days you're really not sure why you're there. But teaching, to sit down with a group of people and discuss scripture, not with the point of just explaining to them this is what it means, but to actually let them discuss. Bring out what they think it means.
Leslie:Begin from there. Have that and and and whatever you thought that you think, it it's not stupid. Let's talk about it. Let's find out what's going on here. But a teaching church.
Leslie:To be honest with you, I'm so sad that our church is no longer we come together for Sunday school, Sunday morning, maybe have a little fellowship, and then we zip back out the door and take up our regular lives. Those that will come and sit down, go beyond Sunday school, beyond worship, and learn and be in be inviting other people to come and listen. Look. We're not gonna judge you. You've got questions.
Leslie:We've got places where we can go seek the answers. So the learning church, the teaching church, the church that is willing to dialogue and talk to others. I've had some great discussions with with Muslims, with with people of other faiths that the the coming together, teaching, learning from each other, realizing that, yeah, we may do things differently, but there's a love for our fellow human beings that we're trying to explore, trying to figure out. One of the things is is to explore the divisions, heal them. We've got divisions all around us, in our country, around the world.
Leslie:We still see that have never been healed. No one's you know, it and it's very difficult. But if we're not sitting down talking about it, discussing about it, exploring it, going to scripture, going to God, doing a lot of prayer over it, We're we're just kinda fighting each other, and it happens within the church. God bless us. You know, we've got all kinds of things going on, but to love each other and to be willing to sit down and say, hey, your ideas are different from mine.
Leslie:Let's discuss them. Let's talk about them. Let's learn from them and figure out what we need to be doing. Sometimes the answer is not just pointing out what's right and wrong, but explaining. I've been told by that.
Leslie:Now don't explain anything, just do it. That doesn't work. People need to know why you don't do certain things. Sin is about getting the things out of your life that cause breaks our relationships. Sin are the things that break healthy relationships.
Leslie:So look to the scripture. It's all there. Your attitudes, your armor of God, your your, you know, the fruit of the spirit, all those things. God's trying to teach us how to love each other, how to come together, not blow each other up.
T.J.:Leslie, I am inspired by your enthusiasm, and I'm really glad you're able to sit down and have a conversation with me and and share your faith and your walk and your experiences. What if others want to, reach out to you or they wanna continue to follow you on your faith journey? Where can they find you?
Leslie:Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me. This is an adventure, and it's it's not always easy to sit down and talk about your faith, especially when the world's gonna be looking, hopefully, lots of people. I'm at East Lake Church in Oklahoma City. We do have a Facebook page and a web page. You can go to those.
Leslie:If you go to Eastlake Cumberland Presbyterian Church on Facebook, you can see devotionals, you can see services, you can see all of that that on there. Sometimes the songs are muted because of the the copyright laws and things like that. And the church and, I'm gonna I keep in contact. I love to do some writing and some other things. I just, I'm enjoying this church work too much to sit down and do that.
Leslie:But, the denomination, there's ways to get hold of me. You all know, you know, things like that. And, but just to to I'm gonna continue that, and we're looking at adding electronics to our service so we can record and properly do things, so that people can watch watch the services and watch things a little easier. So that's one of the things. Use the technology.
Leslie:And that's why I appreciate this. Use the technology. It's another way of speaking. It's being used quite often against us. Let's use it in a positive way.
Leslie:So there's just some ways there and, to reach out and, just to show people love and grace and a little enthusiasm every once in a while.
T.J.:Well, I've enjoyed this. And if you're in the Oklahoma City area, look up reverend Leslie Johnson, and I'd be glad to sit down and have a conversation with you. And thank you for having a conversation with me.
Leslie:You're very welcome. I'll let you go make something good out of it.
T.J.:And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
