Matthew Ingram - A Sense Of Belonging
-Exploring faith journeys and hearing of inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God, You are listening to the Cumberland Road. I am your host, TJ Malinoski. Reverend Matthew Ingram is the minister at the Alabaster Cumberland Presbyterian Church outside of Birmingham, Alabama. Ordained in 2,017 and moving to Alabaster a few months before the pandemic, Matthew shares experiencing many firsts in his life and his focus to overcome and to thrive enduring these new experiences. Our conversation leads in into how formative it was to grow up in the church and have both parents actively involved in the life of the congregation. It is from this upbringing Matthew shares that he carries with him that the community of believers can offer to everyone a sense of belonging, a space to be loved, and people where you can express your doubts and ask questions. You are listening to the Cumberland Road podcast, and this is my conversation with Matthew Ingram.
T.J.:Matthew Ingram, thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Matthew:Thanks for having me. It's, it's great to be here. Looking forward to it.
T.J.:Share with me a little bit who you are and, where do you live, and, what does ministry look like for you today?
Matthew:Well, I, I am the the pastor at the First Presbyterian Church of Alabaster. Considering that this is, a podcast listened by many Cumberlands throughout, you may remember this church as the Elliottsville church, down in down in Alabaster. I've been here, you know, since right before the pandemic, but I actually grew up in the in a church called the Spring Creek Church, which is only about 5 minutes from this church. So being here is, is like being home, but kinda not being home. And so I'm enjoying this, this time of ministry.
Matthew:I'm able to see family and friends who I grew up with, but I'm able to, to do a ministry with people that I don't know as well and with families that I, you know, are, are kind of fresh to me in many ways, and we we can work together to do a lot of things without some of that history.
T.J.:Yeah. So what is that like? Are you having to reorient your life? Is it like moving into a brand new community, or is it a community that's familiar to you? And I mean community in terms of knowing the streets and knowing the good places to eat and where where to get your car worked on and schools, but also, you know, maybe not knowing, you know, the the people.
T.J.:So what is that like?
Matthew:It is a little it is, it's been a little odd. I mean, like I said, 2019, so everything's been odd the past couple of years. But, the one thing that was odd even from the beginning was, that I grew up and just this is this is all south of Birmingham, Alabama, just about 20, 25 minutes away from the city, but we're kind of in the area where the suburbs meet the the rural. And so I grew up in a somewhat rural environment. That's a little further south than the alabaster churches.
Matthew:That's in the, it it has different names. But, Montevallo is actually where I grew up. I went to a small private school. The thing is I know all the streets. I've had friends who've lived in Alabaster all over.
Matthew:I know where the roads are. I know everything is familiar, as far as where to go and what to do. But it's also different because my actual community involvement from when I was a kid was all in the Montevallo community. I went to college at Montevallo, which is more the town I grew up in. So most of my connections or family or friends that I have in the community are not from the alabaster community or roots in the Montevallo one.
Matthew:So it is like going into a new community, a new place, to, you know, trying to meet new people that I haven't met before, trying to get involved in just what the alabaster people are doing is different than the people that I remember and have been involved with forever. So it's, it's a little odd. I know where I'm going when somebody wants to meet me, but I find it funny that I've never met them before.
T.J.:Okay. I get it. So you know the map, you know how to get around town, but in terms of the social aspect and in the relational aspect, it's just like serving in a brand new community.
Matthew:Yeah, it is. And, and I, like I said, I grew up in a CP church, not far from here. And so I did know some of the, the kids, and from camps and stuff when I was younger. And so there are familiar faces at this church because we did do things here at Elliottsville before the name was changed. But I never have to know them well enough.
Matthew:So it's, there's a familiarity, but also a, a real new getting to know people.
T.J.:Right. Starting But
Matthew:it is funny when they look at me and say, oh, I remember, I remember all the days we played softball with your granddad. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Tell me about it.
T.J.:We'll talk for a few minutes about, serving a church beginning to serve a church on the front end of the pandemic. So when did you start at Alabaster?
Matthew:I'm we moved, back down here on August 1, 2019. And anybody who's moved into a church, especially as a as a minister, knows the, the kind of timeframe it takes, like first, the 1st month or so, you're really just trying to get the boxes, open at your house. You're trying to figure out, you know, we're trying to get the kid the I have 3 kids. We were trying to get them into schools. We were trying to figure out the pickup routines and all that kind of stuff.
Matthew:So we were just trying to get settled as we started. And also in that time, starting to try to learn names and faces. And one of the, one of the truths of any church is that, not everybody who comes, comes on the same day unless it's Easter. You know? So I come during 1 season and I see this 75% of people who come more regularly during that season.
Matthew:And so then I miss out on a few people who were part of the church, who just happened to come more often in different phases. That that's, that's a very normal thing in churches. And so every week was meeting someone new. And so I was meeting, meeting up with some other pastors in the area. I was meeting the church people, starting to get stuff moving and try to get stuff together.
Matthew:I'd started. Doing this Lenten lunch series as an ecumenical thing from like area ministers, really more like the Montevallo area ministers. Mhmm. And, like before the second week of those on Wednesdays, we had all pretty much made the decision that it was time to to cut for COVID. Mhmm.
Matthew:We talked here as a session, and we decided to do the same thing. So the way I like to say it is I moved into a church just long enough to see everybody's face and hear their name once. And then I immediately had to go 6 months without seeing anybody or talking to them face to face, really.
T.J.:So looking at, this time that you've been able to serve Alabaster Church and during the time of a pandemic, with a little retrospect, would you say you yourself, have you thrived? Have you had missteps? And then for the church as well, have you guys been thriving? What worked? What didn't work?
T.J.:And, what are you looking to in in the near future?
Matthew:Well, something about, I think, every minister has, I don't think any minister should do everything. That's a clear path to burnout. But I do think every minister is, is gifted in more ways than just what you think of as in whether it's preaching or visiting. There's usually some other aspect of the ministry in an actual church building that they're good at, whether that be music or whether that be technology or, you know, the myriad of other things that we do in it or teaching those sorts of things that come on the side. Yeah.
Matthew:They can't do all of it, but, I am more on the technology side. I've done a lot of stuff with, with computers. I worked at a software company for a little while. I did a whole lot of, things, outside of here that involves technology. And so, when the COVID, thing just started and we had to make that quick decision to shut down, be it knowing technology and having a music minister here at the time, he was young and knew it too.
Matthew:We were able to work together and pivot in a day and a half to get the few things we needed and the software stuff together to do a stream, with slides and with everything to look really pretty solid, like we worked on it for a while, we were able to get that together really quickly.
T.J.:Wow. So what you've done in 2020 in terms of the tech side, how much of that is still in existence and being used here in 2022?
Matthew:All of it. We've actually upgraded, throughout the pandemic. I've always wanted to do streaming, because I thought that it was even before we all knew what it was exactly and how to do it. I always thought it was it's the 21st century version of the, of a CD ministry or a cassette ministry. You know?
Matthew:That's what it is. It's it's okay. Now instead of just giving you an audio copy of this and a tape player, we have a video version and you can, if you're homebound or you're sick, you, you know, you can tune in and you can at least keep up with what the church is doing and and hear something good that day.
T.J.:Right. It's weird to think that you can carry Matthew Ingram and the alabaster church in your pocket or purse. And take take him That's take him around anywhere that you where wherever you are, wherever you're going.
Matthew:It sounds creepier when you say it like that, to be honest. But it was always a nice thought that that anybody who couldn't be here for whatever reason would be able to, not only hear the sermon, but actually experience the whole service in a televised capacity. So we'd already been thinking about doing that. And so, that was really, a part where we thrived, you know, as new. Of course, it was a little weird learning how to, you know, they teach in seminary and speech classes and college and stuff, how to keep eye contact with a whole room of people when you're doing a speech.
Matthew:And you learn that as a minister at a pulpit. It's, it's if there's a bit of a learning curve, learning how to just stare at a camera Mhmm. The same exact spot all the time so that people at home think you're actually looking at them at home. That was a bit of a a change. But, no, that part of the the pandemic where I I find that a lot of the the, a lot of other ministers that I knew at the time, that's where they started to struggle and feel the burnout was how do I keep the church connected?
Matthew:How do I work on this technology stuff? And how do I get it up and running so that we can not lose time, together, that was one of the places where I thought we, me and and the cut the few people here who were really able to help do that really took off and and we're good at. And, and I think the things changed for us a lot as we've started to come out and a very slow, it's a very slow walk out of that tent of pandemic. Cause it's kinda like, I don't know. It feels like, it feels like, you know, Noah on the ark who keeps sending out the dove and it keeps coming back with nothing.
Matthew:Like, it feels like that's what it kind of felt like. It's like, all right, let me put some out there. Is it ready to get started getting back to normal? And then you don't get much. And then send it out again and send it out again.
Matthew:Now's really the first time where it feels like we've seen a little more. We we we've gotten something back, some some branches. Things are starting to feel like they're a little bit more back to normal. And, we're we're starting to make the moves that's, we were really hoping to start at the beginning of 2020 before we had to pull back everything.
T.J.:That's right. Because, you know, as a minister, you know, you, are embarking on this new ministry, in this new location with this new group of people to be able to serve. And, all those aspirations, all those plans, all those visioning and discernment has really been put on hold up until, you know, in the last few months. So is there a level of excitement looking forward?
Matthew:There's a level of excitement, but also, there's some anxiety. There's some nervousness there. Mhmm. Really because, you know, I I I've only been I I was ordained in 2017. So this is my 3rd church.
Matthew:I was at 1 church for a year and a half while I finished seminary. I was at a church in Kentucky for 2 years, and then I've been here for 2 and a half. So, you know, I I'm, I would consider myself fairly new to the game at that point. And yes, pandemic was a first for everyone, but I'm really kind of just now, as I'm getting connected to this community, we're making choices. There are a lot of other firsts that I haven't done.
Matthew:I don't know how to hire a children's minister, but I need to hire one. You know, I I don't I don't know how to, how to do a lot of those things, that I think, you know, everybody's probably done once or twice in their ministry. There are a lot of firsts that I still have in front of me. And so while it's exciting to step into that new space and hopefully find those things, it's also a little anxious ridden, you know, wanting to because it feels honestly, finding a part time children's minister or a new choir director, I mean, it feels like finding a unicorn, you know, somewhere along the way. Like, there's just not that many of them out there.
Matthew:You know? I'm not sure that, and I'm not sure any of those online apps that tell me they'll give me qualified candidates in, in 24 hours are really gonna help me find a part time children's minister. So there's and that's part of the that's but I I do think that it works that way. And and because this is a I don't know if anybody's out there. I don't even have an idea of who could do it.
Matthew:But I guess this is the point where I just have to put it out in the world and, and let and and let God do some of that stuff and see what happens. Because, yeah, there are so many times you just don't expect to, to find something and then you put it out there and say, and pray for it and ask God for what you need and it shows up.
T.J.:Right. So I was gonna ask you, when you've encountered these many first in your life, how how has your faith spoken to those? And how has that your faith informed you when the these first require a decision?
Matthew:I I think mostly, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but I I've lived a lot of different lives before ministry. I'm 41 now. I was, 33, almost 34 when I decided to officially go into ministry and start seminary. Before that I'd worked at a couple of different corporate jobs. I've done youth leader stuff.
Matthew:I'd I'd done a lot of different things. Some good, some not good at all, but, but during those times and those struggles as things changed, every time that it looked like the ends weren't the you know, I wasn't gonna be able to to to get the ends to meet up. There was some sort of, there was a walkway that showed up right, right when I needed it. Mhmm. And, and so it feels like, you know, those moments when you're in between jobs and you don't quite have enough money to pay the power bill and all of a sudden you a credit shows up on your power bill that you didn't know was there or where it came from that covers the cost of the power for the month.
Matthew:Like, where did that come from? Well, I mean, sure. I'm sure I could go back and figure out what the timing was and how that happened, but I didn't know it was time for that or where it came from. But I do think it was it was God making sure we had what we needed at the time. And I think, I think that's what happens as I, nowadays, begin to encounter these firsts is, is just to to remember that the faithfulness of God is a promise from scripture, but the faithfulness of God is a promise that I've seen repeated over and over again in my own life as as other paths have changed and as other things have moved forward.
Matthew:It just feels like God has has always been there to do that, and so there's no reason for me to think that's God won't be there for the next one and the next one after that.
T.J.:Right. And then the struggle can the internal struggle can be about when we're facing a first or a different situation, you know, the the level of anxiety or apprehension or the the viewpoint of an unknown, you know, how how much will we allow that to, overtake us, you know, or overwhelm us and and and the balance of the faith as well, that trust that, okay, the outcome can be influenced by, you know, me and my decisions and God as well and having faith as we step into the into the unknown. It you know, it's a religious question. It's also a philosophical question. Yeah.
T.J.:I think about that as well. This chair that I'm sitting in, I have a level of degree of faith that it won't break underneath my weight.
Matthew:But I've also said in the future, it's the broke too.
T.J.:So there's that apprehension of,
Matthew:like There's always just a little bit. But that I think that's also been, you know, some of my faith journey. Some of those moments of transition were my own fault. You know, they were either, me being in a place where it was a bad fit, me making bad choices about how I was living at the moment and and what I was I was doing. And so it wasn't like, okay, look at me.
Matthew:I'm I'm doing all these good things and making all these good decisions. I just need an extra, you know, an extra step or 2 to get me through. A lot of them have come from from places that I wasn't expecting to be Mhmm. Because of how I was doing things, the choices I had made. And yet still still make it through somehow was, I think that's been part of my faith journey that, that, that informs a lot of what I do and the way that I talk to people and the way that, that, I interact with with a lot of people here is that, that's even in our confession, which is one of the reasons, you know, why CP means so much to me.
Matthew:I mean, I grew up CP, of course, but there's a part in there that's, that's, talks about how even before we, and I'm I don't have it in front of me, so I'm gonna say it slightly wrong. I'm so paraphrasing here, but that the holy spirit is, is always working in our lives from, from early on to bring us to points of, to bring us unto God, to, to work in our lives, to, to bring us to a point where we turn ourselves over, and accept, what Christ has done for us and and those things. But and, you know, I think it goes a little further than that too in that even in the moments and the times where we may feel far away from God and we may feel like we've screwed everything up that God has done for us and given us, that God has not left us in any of those moments and has really been working ahead of time knowing probably in some ways that we might, that's the real philosophical question is why did God set this up if he knew I was gonna screw it up?
T.J.:So the you had mentioned earlier that, you know, this is a second career for you.
Matthew:Mhmm.
T.J.:Going back in time, what did the young Matthew dream that the adult Matthew would become?
Matthew:And that's a hard question because I've had to think about it and reflect on it over the years, but when it depends on which young Matthew you're talking about here. Because if you if I go back and look at myself and as a as a kid and in middle school and in high school, it's very possible that that kid would see this adult that I am now as the pastor of this church and say, oh, yeah. That that makes that's it. Yeah. I know that.
Matthew:Because I grew up I mean, I grew up in church my entire life. I was like I said, I grew up Cumberland Presbyterian, but my family has lived in this community, where where I grew up at for, generations. I was at least the 4th generation just in that church. And I feel like there was probably one before that, who was CP when they moved. So and my parents are about as close to clergy as you can get without without go without taking the dive.
Matthew:You know? I remember we were always the first ones there. We lived 1 mile from the church, so we were quite often the ones who opened the doors and quite often the ones who locked them up after everybody left. I remember countless nights of running around the church with my sister and maybe another kid or 2 with 0 supervision while all our parents were in a committee meeting or something somewhere. You know, I remember all of that being a kid.
Matthew:And of course, our church has a creek that runs on the land right behind it. So, you know, there was a lot of time spent around that water and and watching it, you know, flow. And so and as I was always very involved in youth group and stuff. And so I the young the young me probably would see this coming. It was the college me who, probably because he saw it coming, decided to start doing other things.
T.J.:What career paths did you did you choose
Matthew:on college? Let's see. I, in in college, I delivered flowers for a little I'll run through the whole thing. I delivered flowers for a little while, then I worked at several restaurants. That's when the drug problems started.
Matthew:Then after I finally got out of that, I worked at, Blockbuster for a little while, and then, took a little time off. I started teaching, math in a in a co op homeschool group, high school math, because I have a math degree from college. So I was able to teach that for a little while, then I was doing some new stuff on the side. And then I finally ended up getting a job, working for a government contractor where I was I was helping, take and make phone calls around this new, program that they have to help recruit people into the national guard. That's where I also learned Excel to a ridiculous degree, making graphs and charts from all the data that we have there so that they could win an even bigger contract.
Matthew:Then after that, I worked at a children's home where I worked with the, transitional living kids, the ones who were, like, 16 and 17, learning how to get jobs as they were about to have to lead the system. Mhmm. So trying to learn how to hang hang for themselves. Then I left there and went to a software company. And the my title was data wizard where I then used my previous job's Excel skills to sort and process data into a call center so that people could make phone calls for
T.J.:Was that your real job title?
Matthew:Yes. Yes, it was. I promise you that that was that was actually the job title that I applied for and the one I got. And then after that job, that's when I looked my wife in the eye and said, I think I need to go into ministry. And she said, what?
Matthew:Because she had no idea.
T.J.:So let's slow down here on this part of your journey. Yeah.
Matthew:That's fine.
T.J.:So you're you're a data wizard.
Matthew:Yeah.
T.J.:And, there was something unfulfilling. I mean, I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but how did you go from data wizard to, a call to ministry?
Matthew:Well, it was a the simplest way to explain it was a software company, and they were using me to, manually handle data for a new, wing they were trying out, a service wing. So I was able to to do all this and and learn and use Excel and some other tools that I knew. But this company was really good about sitting people down every few months and saying, what can we do for your career path? What career do you see yourself in? And I never had a good answer for it because I'd I I don't think I saw it.
Matthew:And then I knew the ultimate answer working at a software company was that I was gonna need to be a programmer, which I probably could have been. But that just didn't feel right, with me, seeing the way the other programmers worked, the hours they put in. And I'm just gonna be honest. Those those 9 to 5 jobs just just sucked the life out of me in the winter. And you a lot of you might be able to to connect to this, but where I live, there's a lot of traffic going up to work in Birmingham.
Matthew:And so it's not you get there at 8 o'clock. It's you leave your house at 6 or 6:15 before the sun comes up, get to your job at 6:45 to beat the traffic, work till 4:30, and then leave there and come home trying to beat the traffic. But the thing is in the dead of winter, it's leave in the dark, get there in the dark, work in the fluorescent lights, finish what you're doing, leave in the dark, go home in the dark. You know, 2 months of no sun. And for
T.J.:you, that was that was not fulfilling.
Matthew:No. No. It it wasn't.
T.J.:But, I mean, there's a big leap between being a data wizard and an ordained minister.
Matthew:I mean, that's not as big as you think. But I think that was what started the process is it didn't feel fulfilling at the time. The feeling trapped in a place when there's so much more life out there. A lot of the other experiences I've had being a a youth pastor at a couple different times, being connected to some of the groups I was connected to in in my early college years, that really, you know, were deep, in, bible studies and book studies that I did with a very close group of friends, one of whom is also a minister to this day. And, I think, actually, one day, I called that I called him and said, hey.
Matthew:I have a job that's not far from your church. We should go get lunch sometime, and we did a couple times. And then one day, he looked me in the face and said, when are you gonna come back into ministry? Because, about 10 years before that, I had started the path of doing it and then left that path to take on the other job and do some of the other things that I did. So the idea was fair.
Matthew:It just I wasn't excited about it at any of those other times. But once that last job fell through and I started to think more about why it was and what kinds of things I did find fulfilling, it was it was all in the, in the realm of of church, in the realm of ministry. It was always the place I felt at home. The the fact that, that one of the facts that ministers deal with all the time that a lot of people actually hate is the fact that you often don't know what you're gonna get from one day to another. You know, one day you need to be stuck in an office, writing up a sermon the next day, you might need to rush to a hospital, with someone.
Matthew:And then the day after that, you might be having to leave someone's funeral, somebody you knew or didn't know, you know, it's just, it's a it it varies from day to day. There's a lot of things out there, and that variation is actually something I enjoy quite a bit. So Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. There is more.
Matthew:And and computer programmers have not as much variation in their lives as you might think.
T.J.:Alright. Yeah. Having the variety and the excitement of the unknown, what each day will bring, can be very fulfilling, especially when you're connecting it to your faith. Yeah. You alluded to, a minister friend of yours.
T.J.:Who are some of the folks who've influenced your journey along your way, just in life, in terms of your life journey?
Matthew:I there are so many. This is the this is the other weird part about going into ministry, why I should've seen it coming. I cannot tell you how many friends that my parents had and how many ministers I knew just personally who were not ministers of my church, but ministers I just knew, over the years, I've just known so many of them. But I'll, I'll probably say there are 2, individuals that probably have been the most important to my life journey. One was, in the late high school time frame or just after high school really, was, a minister named, Mark Weldon.
Matthew:I know some people may may know him, may remember him. He is extremely musical. He was very, he was a, he, he thought very deeply about the, the scriptures that we had, about the books that we would read together in the college Bible study group that we, he had put together. It was with him that, started, you know, singing along in a praise and worship band that we had put together, and he did all that. And that's where I learned a lot of stuff about sound equipment and, and how to be part of that sort of ministry.
Matthew:But I think with, with him, it was just the, the being allowed to, to think deeply, to meditate on not just scripture, but on, on, on what other, you know, we would look at a book that's connected to it and talking about it. And, and we read several different books that looked deeply into, faith. And I I think I really connected probably one of the ones I connected with the most was we read through and, study of the the ragamuffin gospel, that I think a lot of people read during that time frame. And I think that opened me up to, to letting, letting God love me as me where I am, instead of kind of staying away because I wasn't perfect enough or good enough. And, you know, I think that was, that was one of the and that stuck with me over the years too.
Matthew:And then the the minister who was in that group, that Bible study group was, was Derek Jacks. I don't know. Maybe I should nout him as my friend. He might not like it so much. Well,
T.J.:Derek, he's he's a previous guest on Cumberland Road.
Matthew:So Yeah.
T.J.:Folks can, folks can listen to that episode and check that check
Matthew:that out. We I think we shared a a con he he, you know, he stayed the road. He went into ministry, you know, straight through, stayed with it. And I was the one that started the path and then jumped off the boat. And, jumped for this reason or for that reason, looking for something that may be more fulfilling than what that would bring.
Matthew:But he was always a rock that went that direction, but he's always been a friend of mine who I could talk to no matter where I was. I think he was one of the ones he's the one who I had lunch with that told me I needed to come back in the ministry or asked when I was doing it. So, he's just kinda always seen it in me. And, and those those sorts of moments, you know, can help you see yourself better than you, you, you did before when, when somebody can see you like that and know you and, you know, we're still friends to this day. At least I hope we are.
T.J.:Well, it can be, it can be unnerving to have, you know, a friend kind of place you into the into the reality that we sometimes avoid.
Matthew:Yeah. But, I mean, that's you need that too.
T.J.:Right. Right. I think there's some accountability that comes along with that. It's encouragement but account accountability as well. Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. Well, looking at, your faith today, how would you describe it? I mean, how do you know that the presence of God is is with you, Matthew?
Matthew:The way you phrase that question, is an interesting interesting one. How do I know that the presence of God is with me? I, I, I think I see it. I see it in, in the people, in the, in the congregation. You know, I, I, maybe this is my own anxiety speaking at times, but you know, when, when you write us, when you read some scripture and you write a sermon about it and you stand up in front of a group to speak it, there can in many cases, give you that feeling of, am I am I did I hear God correctly?
Matthew:Is this the message that God is asking me to give to this congregation today? And there are days where, you know, you don't get it all the time, but, there are days when you have people who will come up afterwards or reach out to you later and and talk about how what you said connected with them. And that's either and that can be on one of the days where you thought you'd hit it out of park or one of the days where you thought you couldn't string a sentence together.
T.J.:Or when that real when
Matthew:you have days like that, you know, that seems so contrasting, and yet you still have people who heard something from God through through what you may have said that day, then you know god must have been there with you in that moment. It wasn't about me and my performance or my thoughts. It was it was something of god that was presented in that moment.
T.J.:So god's presence was made available to others, in spite of who Matthew is.
Matthew:Yes. Alright. Yeah.
T.J.:Well, how about, recognizing god's presence, god's grace out in the world? Right now, we have parts of the world that are experiencing war and trauma and disruption. Not that that has it's always been that way. But in terms of not focusing on just all negative, I mean, what words of encouragement do you have for others who who may be seeking for something, seeking a presence, a grace, a love that the world is not offering? You know,
Matthew:the encouragement that, that I that I I take from it and that I get from it is, we were talking about this a little bit. I was talking about this a little bit yesterday, but when when you have a moment where, you know, like I said earlier, I've lived I've had many different jobs and careers. I feel like I've lived very many different lives throughout the 41 years that I've been blessed to be here so far. And I think in living in those places and the different people that I ran into and the different people that I was have have kinda given me a, an understanding of what it's like to to be that kind of outsider. Mhmm.
Matthew:And I think the encouragement that that I've always taken from that is or at least the lesson that I've always taken from that is is to try and make sure that whoever it is and whatever bumper stickers they have showing or whatever red flags they might try to to wave in front of your face, often it, when you take the time to try and talk to someone and just listen to their story, who they are, where they've come from, how they have experienced or not experienced God. In a conversation between 2 people, the, the problems of the world seem to not enter into a 1 on 1 reaction that often We're 2 people trying to figure out what one another's lives are like. We're trying to figure out, you know, what's what tomorrow will bring for us in this particular time and place that we live in. And often the concerns and the cares that we share that are more alike than they are different, have more to do with friends, with family, with with just making it through another day. Most of their cares and concerns in front of us are exactly the same, and they're rarely, political, and they're rarely world changing.
Matthew:We can get overwhelmed with all those other things, but if we can take the time to actually talk to one another, listen to we'll we'll find we're we're more of the same than we are different. And, and I think that's that's that might be one of the things that people are are looking for the most is that, yeah, our our world is so, so crazy, especially not just in the wars, but in our political discourses and our religious discourses at times. But there are people who are seeking to hear something, to find something more. And if we, in the church, can be the kind of place where people can come, feel like they can belong, feel like they are loved. And I think nowadays more than ever, maybe even, a place where they can come and, and share their, their doubts with, with how they feel about what they hear about God.
Matthew:Yeah. Or maybe even what they've learned at another place that has has hurt them in some ways. Like, this these doors, this place should be a place where questions can be asked. If the if the psalmist can go to God and say, why have you forsaken me? Then I think somebody should be able to come in this church and, and ask why this happened to them, or why God let this happen to them, and express that doubt and even that anger in many cases, or be able to find a community that can love them through it and and even not have all the answers.
T.J.:So let's talk about church and the people aspect of the church and the community of faith. Matthew, what is the church getting right, and what is the church we, the community of faith missing?
Matthew:There's so many things that we often do right. I think often the things that we do right. Get, get buried by an onslaught of one offs and social media outrages and, and stories of churches that aren't connected to really the church community that we know and love and those those bad things get connected to you know, you can have 1 church that gets, accused of of multiple different, terrible things. And then now you can have people who think that every church has those things going on in them. And and and I think that's what our where our focus gets.
Matthew:But I think we do, in so many ways, do so many things right, by by caring for one another. And and, you know, and and just this community and my church, and I know this happens in all sorts of other churches, but, you know, when someone's sick, you know, we deliver, you know, food to them. We we we spend our time and energy trying to create a place where people can come and and worship God. And that's that's no small feat. That that's, that's not something just to take for granted.
Matthew:Mhmm. We have a place to do it. We have a group of people that are connected enough, even if they are different from one another, where we can come and, and worship together. And I, I think that's the kind of stuff that the church gets right. You know, I've always liked that message.
Matthew:And I say this almost every time we do, communion is is to thank God for this symbol, for this act. Because this act is has been done by Christians of every race, of every denomination, of every time and place for over 2000 years, all going back to the first time that it was offered from Jesus to his disciples, that's a level of connection and connectedness that's that you can only get from something like the church. And, yes, we can be different and do different things. And even at times believe slightly different things or read things differently, but we are still connected. And when we're able to live in that reality, that's the kind of thing we do.
Matthew:Right. And I think that's the kind of thing that the people, that people need the place where they can feel connected and loved. I think, there are a lot of people out in the world. There are just too many voices and they just feel isolated from their friends, from their families. The church does it right when we connect to one another.
Matthew:And I think on the flip side of that, that's the thing that the church does wrong at times is, is to try to decide who is right and who is wrong and which kind of church does it better than another kind of church. And you need to worship different, or you need to think different, or that church isn't this or that, or fill in the blank. Mhmm. But we still worship the same God. And, we still follow the same Christ, and we still offer the invitation for people to come and meet a God who loves them, a God whose image they bear.
Matthew:That's that's where the church can get stuff right. We get it, we get it wrong when we, when we fight each other too much.
T.J.:Do you have any advice on how to celebrate the little things that and the big things that we as a community of faith gets right. You had mentioned earlier that we often overlook and they get buried. How do we recognize not for an ego boost, but just to acknowledge that we are living out as the body of Christ. I've thought I've thought about this quite a bit. And, as you're thinking, I'll give a I'll give a thought.
T.J.:I I think oftentimes, you know, with a local church, local congregation, we spend so much on like building up to the next event, the next celebration, where it is, how grand it's going to be, how you need to be there. But then after that event and that celebration, we rarely, kind of like, go back and sort of discern and talk about the event, what worked and what didn't, what was joyous, what could be improved upon. And I think that that's an area that we can celebrate to go, hey, do you realize that we accomplished this great Easter celebration? And through worship and a meal and, you know, all these activities, and we were able to do it with 10 volunteers or 80 volunteers and just kind of, you know, acknowledge that. And we were able to touch many lives, you know, and invite them.
T.J.:They got to experience the life of the community of faith. I think those are things that we can we can do better at and we can do more
Matthew:of. Yeah. I see that. I I also, this is, you know, part of the answer to it is, and not forget to be grateful for for the people and and and the time and the money that we were able to to put into a task. Right.
Matthew:I a funny funny story at, I'm gonna try not to out. I, I was at a church one time and, there was an event that took place and there were 4 people who really had put the whole thing together. It was fairly early in my tenure, and I was uncertain of everyone's name. So I mentioned the one that I knew well, and then basically said, and others, you know, and the others of you who also helped kind of thing. Like, just trying I was trying to thank them.
Matthew:Thank you to this person and the others of you, you know, just a, you know, a simple gesture. And then I had a lady after church come and talk to me and say that I really should have made sure to name everyone and thank them personally. She got on to me a little bit. It might not have been right after church. It might have been like a week later where she's like, you know, so and so had their feelings hurt a little bit because she didn't mention their name.
Matthew:Just make sure you mention everybody's name every time. And I took that to heart. I listened and said, you know what? You're right. I know that there's a there's a part of us in church that that tends to to to not celebrate.
Matthew:We're not trying to we we don't do these things so we can have our our own horns tooted, you know, we're working together. And, we're we're we're working together in this church thing. And we want to, and we don't wanna do it for our own accolades. I think, you know, too often we bring up, you know, some of the scriptures, from that where Jesus, you know, talks about not letting your right hand know what your your left hand know what your right hand is doing. And that, you know, if you if you do it to be lauded, as soon as, you know, someone brings it up and thanks you for it, you've received your reward in full.
Matthew:And I think that's the way a lot of people take it sometimes since I want to be more anonymous. And we are in a church as a a team. Sometimes it's it it feels like we pulled that off. Real good job team, and let's get ready to do it again. But I've tried to get better at making sure that, that everyone is aware of who of of who the the group was or the person was who is willing to be a part of this.
Matthew:Yeah. For instance, our our our pianists here, the other day, broke a wrist. And so we've had to have people fill in. And they've enjoyed filling in as far as I can tell. They're they're doing us a real solid, but I've tried to make sure to thank them at every chance.
Matthew:Not just me personally to them, but to the whole congregation. I want the congregation to know the kind of work they've put into this and the kind of and how they've stepped up to help us out in these moments. And and I think those should be things that we mentioned from pulpits. And I'm sure there's probably some ministers who will listen to this, who are just nodding along and like, yeah, of course, you're supposed to always do that. How did you not know that?
Matthew:Like I said, I'm willing to learn, but the thing is, I think we should do that more often throughout, not just the pastor acknowledging those things, but, create, creating a, a culture of people in your church who are grateful to one another for their work they do in the church, you know, to have the parents thank the Sunday school teachers, you know, to to have the kids thank the people who fed them a meal. You know?
T.J.:Right. Right.
Matthew:And that that becomes a it's it's part of the teaching. It's part of a it's a very southern thing too, you know, to make sure your kids say please and thank you and all that kind of stuff. But, when we're grateful to one another for the things we've done for one another, then we begin to celebrate ourselves and and the community that we have here. And we all enjoy being part of it. And I I think it ends up helping us be drawn into it.
Matthew:And then, sometimes it is worthwhile to pat each other on the back when we, you know, have a coat drive and get way more coats than we expected. You know?
T.J.:Right. Right. Matthew, I've enjoyed our time together and then get to know you much better. Folks who are listening, if they wanted to reach out to you and and learn more about you and your faith journey, be part of your faith journey, where do you wanna point them to?
Matthew:I I think the easiest place, is just gonna be well, not everybody, as you've told me earlier, not everyone has Facebook, but the church, Facebook page is a really good way to get ahold of me. So it and that's, you know, facebook/fpcalabaster. Don't forget the dot com, facebook.com/fpcalabaster. If you also just wanna email me about something, you can always email, me at, like, pastor@fpcalabaster.orgorg. I've just I've had multiple people I've told that to and said be very careful with the ORG because if you forget it, it ain't gonna make it to me.
Matthew:And then have them call me a day later and be like, your email address is wrong. And only to have them say, I mailed it to fpcalabaster.com. Don't do that. It won't come to me. It's fpcalabaster.org.
T.J.:Well, I appreciate it. Now folks who are listening, they wanna reach out to you. They know how to get in touch with you and learn more about you and your faith journey and be a part of it. Matthew, thank you so much for your time.
Matthew:Oh, thank you. It's been a it's been a pleasure.
T.J.:And, thank you for the the new, job title, data wizard. I don't know. It's
Matthew:it's legit.
T.J.:That may be the title of, our conversation for this podcast, Matthew Ingram, data wizard.
Matthew:Oh, okay. That's that's good. That's good.
T.J.:And thank you for those who've been listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
