Nathan Wheeler - To Be One Piece of the Larger Kingdom
Do we go on living with all we've undone, the good the bad path.
T. J.:Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. This is the Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Melanosky. Today, Nathan Wheeler joins us. Nathan provided us with the intro music for this episode today. And Nathan is an ordained Cumberland Presbyterian minister. He serves as a coordinator of youth and young adult ministries for the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination. Nathan's roots begin in the Gallatin, Tennessee area, and he attended Bethel University and then Memphis Theological Seminary and he has served as youth and minister and directors in the Presbyterian Church USA, United Methodist Church, and of course, Cumberland Presbyterian Church. Currently, Nathan is writing and releasing some music, and you can find that on Bandcamp, and Nathan's gonna tell us more about that in a few minutes.
T. J.:Nathan, thank you for joining me today. How are you?
Nathan:I'm great.
T. J.:I like starting our conversation with, some sort of beginning and early encounters. Nathan, can you recall your first experience, an early experience with God?
Nathan:Yeah, you know, I grew up going to church. My parents attended a, you know, medium sized Baptist church, I'd say. And just remember growing up, going there, attending with my sister. My dad was what you would call egg and holly, so he showed up on Easter and Christmas. And he was a working man. He worked for National Electric Service and, was, you know, helping out with that stuff, doing storm stuff and climbing poles and restoring power. So he was gone a lot as far as work related things, on Sundays. So I think he might have attended more, but I knew him as a faithful person. But my mom taught Sunday school and things like that. I think probably my earliest memory is her teaching me at the church, you know, sitting on the floor and her reading Bible stories to us and corralling us for snacks. So I would say that's probably my earliest memories of, you know, having faith formation and doing that stuff.
T. J.:What other people besides your parents have helped shape your faith and your faith formation and helped you along your path?
Nathan:Oh, gosh. I mean, so many people. You know, my grandparents were faithful people, very different kinds of people as far as family goes. I'd say my dad's parents were probably more of a conservative Republican kind of group and then my mom's parents were staunch democrats, and, you know, I wouldn't call them progressive or anything like that. Just different kinds of people grew up in different kinds of ways.
Nathan:I'd say my dad's family was way more country and my mom's were a little more metropolitan. My grandfather was in the military for years and my mom lived all over the country. He served all over the place. So I think they just kind of had seen more of the world and done more stuff like that. But, you know, I remember getting things over time from my grandparents, bibles and little trinkets with crosses and things like that.
Nathan:But yeah, so many people besides family, you know, I had so many youth workers growing up who were very influential. I've always hyped up and talked about, you know, the first person I ever talked to about my call, and that's Steve Cageley. He works in Winchester CP. He's been there forever and, he directed camp when I started going and, you know, I think he's very instrumental in my faith formation being the first person that ever kind of talked me through that or helped me through those kinds of things. But I got a lot of influence from friends, growing up too, you know, those with faith and those without.
Nathan:I think that they, helped shape me and kind of guide me towards things that I wanted to see in the world and things that I thought were, not things I wanted to see in the world, you know. I think a lot of people in their own ways through the way they lived and the way they talked and, you know, what they did in life were ways that helped me form my own faith.
T. J.:What would you want others to know about your faith journey and and what it means just to be a follower of Christ?
Nathan:Yeah. And I've talked about this in other spaces, but, you know, for me, I was like a typical teenager where once I kinda got to about 13, 14, I I really didn't wanna go to church much. It just other things were more important to me and probably, you know, simultaneously as I was starting to, you know, reconnect, my father was really sick. And right before he died, I went to my first Cumberland Presbyterian event at all which was a retreat. It used to be Sonata Camp which is in Tennessee Synod.
Nathan:They used to have a fall retreat and I had a friend invite me to go to that and then the next week my dad died. I had just turned 16 and the first thing I remember doing when that event happened is I called the friends that I made, these people I just met at this church camp because there was just something about that relationship that we made just over that weekend that I felt like that these were people that would pray for us and care for us in a unique way. And so I just wanted to kind of reach out to those people. And so I think from that point on, I started attending Saint Luke Cumberland Presbyterian Church and, you know, my family didn't go there. They didn't know me at all.
Nathan:The first time that some of them met me was, you know, a week prior, and then I had this trauma that has in my life and they loved me and cared for me like I was their own, like I grew up in their church, like they'd known me since I was a boy. You know, they gave one of the things St. Luke did at the time is they gave fresh baked bread to visitors and I probably got that for about four years, and, you know, when I went off to college, I don't remember which group it was, but I got a McDonald's gift card until I was like 25 years old. You know, it's things like that and the connectedness of the church in that way and how they nurtured my faith journey, you know, as I was going through this trauma and kind of experiencing it in real life and really not, I wouldn't say I wasn't churched at all, but I certainly had an edge to me that was different than my peers that were attending youth groups and churches. And the way they loved me and cared for me and nurtured my call, they saw something in me that I didn't necessarily understand or know myself.
Nathan:I think for me, a lot of my work and why I'm in ministry comes from those days and those times because I know how meaningful it is, how formative that time is. And so like I said, I've said this in other spaces but I still return to that so often when I think about doing work with young people in our denomination and in the work that I've done in churches. There's so much dark that happens in that time. There's so much uncertainty. It's so hard to be a young person no matter what age they've lived in, what decade they've experienced it.
Nathan:There's always so much difficulty in that navigating that time and having these adults, no matter what age, whether they were youth workers or, older people in the congregation care about my life, express those cares to me, you know, tell me that they loved me, that God loved me, gave me opportunity to serve and to be a part of the congregation, not just, this compartmentalized portion called youth ministry, but to truly be a part of the congregation, to lead, to speak, to have my voice heard, it changed my life. It changed my life. It changed the trajectory of it, completely. And I hold onto that so often and I want to be a part of those spaces.
T. J.:Ain't it interesting that there's so many nameless people or people that we can't recall their names that they gave so much. We remember the giving, but not necessarily the name. And I think of for us who have the opportunities to be the givers, we so much want to be attached to that gift of time or attention or something very tangible. And yet, we're called to do something else. We're called to just do it for the sake of giving.
T. J.:And what's remembered is not necessarily the name or the face, but it's the the receiving of that attention or receiving of that gift card or the receiving of those opportunities that go so much further than the person who's who's attached to it. I think that's I can think of a lot of places where I received and I may not be able to to name, but I can definitely recall the events and the impact it had on my life and how it shaped me to who I am today.
Nathan:Well, I can name names, but also I, you know, I resonate with that in some way because it was a collective gift that the people in that church, the people in that presbytery, the people in that synod gave me over those years. It is a collective gift of faith and formation and love and grace and mercy and forgiveness and all the things that come with, you know, living a life like Christ. They collectively live that for me. And some, was closer than others, but together, that was kind of, what I'm hearing you're saying, it's a it's a collective gift of people giving and receiving. The Christian community meant so much to me.
Nathan:And, yeah, there's definitely tons of individuals and names.
T. J.:Well, and, you know, you take somebody, a teenager and a young adult who may not have a whole lot to reciprocate. So it truly is a gift with not expecting anything in return. So, Nathan, with all this outpouring of a collective giving from people who've been connected to the church and more importantly, connect it to the faith, How has your faith in Jesus Christ given you purpose?
Nathan:It's it's it's a strange thing to be in ministry and particularly to be a minister because for so many people, their faith sometimes are separated, you know, from their livelihood and that's one thing that I can't ever say. Pretty much all of my work life, has been wrapped up in my faith, You know, everything that I've chosen to do into the world to provide for myself and my family has been wrapped up in doing faith, helping other people form faith and come to know Christ and to live that life together in community and the church and now denominationally. So, I mean, it's given me my education Without my calling, I don't think I would have ended up in college. I wasn't even planning on doing college. I actually started off looking into this thing that was called covenant players, which I'm assuming it's still around, but it was like this drama troop that would go to prisons and camps and act things out and, you know, I was into acting at the time.
Nathan:My sister was doing it in college and I I really kind of resonated with it in high school. I enjoyed that which I didn't enjoy much in school and, so I thought I was gonna do that, you know, and that summer I really felt, that I needed to go to school and, you know, I wouldn't have gone to seminary, you know, I wouldn't have had that educational training. I probably wouldn't have found what I feel like I'm skilled to do in the world which is to work with young people in the church. So, I mean, it's given me that livelihood, which I think is wrapped up in purpose. You know, I I want to live my life like Christ would want me to.
Nathan:You know, I do it sometimes better than others. You know, I've always, enjoyed the phrase of saying I'm not I'm becoming Christian. Not that I am Christian. I'm becoming Christian each and every day. It's a choice that I make to do that each day.
Nathan:So ultimately, yeah, it's given me my vocation, my education, my purpose. I met my wife in a church that I served at. We didn't date at that time. It was a long time after that. But, you know, most of my life, most of my friends is wrapped up in my faith journey.
T. J.:Nathan, what would you tell a young person? What is it about God, about the Christian faith that just keeps you coming back over and over again?
Nathan:There's a lot of ways that people live in the world, that they choose to live for, you know, whatever purpose that they find themselves in. And, you know, for me, what keeps me trying to live my life as an example in some way is that I think living like Christ in the world is truly a healing thing for the individual and for the community, and I I truly think it is a way of life versus something I think or something I just believe and I can go about my merry way. There's a lot of things I've learned in school that I wouldn't say necessarily I've had to use over life, but the things that I've learned over time in faith, has caused me to change how I live my life, change how I see the world. I really, really truly believe that Christ's way and what we see in the Bible, particularly in the gospels, is a way of life that is good for all of us. It's a common good and I think that that's something to strive towards, to live your life in a way that's not just for your own personal gain or for your own endeavors but to truly live for other people to thrive, to have abundant life, to find their own, way of living.
Nathan:I think Christ embodies so many different walks of life too. I think that's another thing that I really has always gravitated to me. I don't think Christ has ever asked me to conform who I truly am. I think he wants to use who I am. He likes my personality.
Nathan:He likes who I am as an individual and he chooses to use that who I am to be just one piece of the larger kingdom. And I think that that's a unique way of living into the world. We don't all have to look the same. We don't all have to act the same. We don't all have to believe the same, but there are these principles, right?
Nathan:These guiding ways of being in the world, choosing love over hate and forgiveness and mercy and grace and being peacemakers, those types of things, we do in our own unique ways.
T. J.:Nathan, we're in the opening weeks of 2021. Where do you see God working in the world today?
Nathan:You know, like it is a it's a it's a weird time to live, but, you know, all of us generationally have lived through the difficult moments, either personally or as a country that we live in or in a community that we're a part of. There's hard things that happen that we experience and live through and decide to, you know, change our lives or change how we do things to make it better. I guess for me in this moment where I'm seeing God play out is in the for me personally, it's in these rituals that so much has been disrupted that I was used to finding my place in. You know, I enjoyed leading events. We haven't had an event.
Nathan:I've enjoyed going to church. We are not going to church. At least we're not going to the church building, to do the normal things we do. You know, traveling, seeing friends, connecting locally with people, everything has been just so much, more difficult to find a way to do that safely. So I think where I'm seeing God is in these small little spaces, in these rituals that have started to take shape.
Nathan:And I know that it's been difficult for some people to connect online and they're finding more and more reasons not not to do that anymore. They don't want to do that. But for me, it's been so nourishing to be able to attend a worshiping community through online connection and I'm a part of a mostly every day of the week prayer group through our congregation where we read the same confession of faith or read the same prayer of confession every day. We read the Lord's prayer together every day, we, discuss scripture every single day. Those things wouldn't be possible or I wouldn't be probably participating in those things in this moment without where we are.
Nathan:And so for me, I guess where I'm finding God is in these, places where I can return each day and find those little spaces where God is speaking when there's so much that's disrupted and so much that's hard going on. And, you know, it it would be hard without the pandemic. I know that it's exasperated things that are happening in our world, but it'd be hard enough without that. So that's just an added layer. But yeah, I think I'm just finding it in small spaces and small ways through the routine of returning to these practices that I could still do with other people, but we're doing it in different ways.
T. J.:Have you had any luck creating new spaces for new rituals?
Nathan:For other people or for myself?
T. J.:Both.
Nathan:I mean, I sure. I there's been times I mean, for me personally, like I said, having to not necessarily, I know some might call it innovation, but I think it's just pivoting really because, you know, we've had to go from in person to online mostly. And I know that's not true for everybody. There's lots of communities that are still doing things in person. They're doing them differently.
Nathan:Everybody's had to change something. But, know, for me, I think that just being able to be more present in those kinds of spaces than I would have been otherwise. Those are helpful to me personally and I found that connection there. Far as like me and my work and what we've done, you know, we've had some success with some online events. The beginning of all of this back in early twenty twenty, You know, we did some fun youth events online that seemed to connect and go well.
Nathan:And then we've done some other stuff that didn't necessarily connect or find an audience, but I do think that if anything, God honors our trying. I do think that there has been a lot of innovation, maybe not innovation is the word, but a lot of people who are trying things that they wouldn't have done in the past and seeing some fruit from that that they wouldn't have found otherwise because they were forced to do it. So I am finding that in that space. I went through a time where I was lamenting all the things that couldn't happen, and I'm starting to move towards not necessarily just hanging on what we can return to, but I'm more hanging on to what is happening. Where is it that God shows up?
Nathan:Not just, you know, six months from now, I know God will be present at this event that we do or when this community gathers again, but where is God truly present in this moment with me right now? Like I said, it's kind of in these small rituals that I'm finding and, you know, I'm grateful to see all the churches that are finding a way in this time.
T. J.:Mhmm. As a servant within the church, what hopes, what ideas, what aspirations do you have now, but in the future as well?
Nathan:Well, I I mean, I do hope that the church in general has been able to kind of take a look in the mirror and realize that they they are capable of reaching people in unique ways and that also they don't need to have a giant budget and fancy streaming capabilities and all of that to make a difference to have people come and be a part of it. You know, I know that most of us who were trained to do ministry in a congregation were not trained to do, algorithms and figure out analytics for streaming times and setting up streaming services and Zooms and Facebook Lives and all that stuff, you know, we didn't go through any of that stuff. But being able to be flexible in our faith a little bit and, the way that we congregate and the way that we build community and what that means, I hope that that takes root in the future that people will still build upon those spaces and not just, like, get rid of them because they don't feel like they're needed. There are so many people that can get connected to our congregations and what we're doing virtually, and it doesn't have to be fancy to do it.
Nathan:Well,
T. J.:Nathan, typically, at at the end of the conversation, I like asking each guest how we can continue to follow the faith journey. You've been working on some music, and you're you're also working on a book as well. So you wanna take a few minutes and bring us up to date on how that's going?
Nathan:Yeah. So, you know, I kinda got hit a brick wall when the pandemic hit. You know, all the normal things that I was putting my time and energy into kind of went to a slow, halt, not slow, it was fast halt, but, you know, there was a slow burn to it because there was things that were planned into the future that you thought you were gonna be able to do. Yeah. You know, at first, we were thinking, oh, this will be a month or two.
Nathan:Right. So anyway, it it was a slow burn on all those things being canceled. As far as music goes, I mean, I've always written stuff musically. I've always enjoyed music. It's always been something I've done for myself, as far as writing songs and, you know, I would play it at camp or something like that.
Nathan:But as far as, like, my own songs and my own music, that was normally for me. And towards the end of 2019, I just felt more and more like I wanted to do something with that. So I it wasn't because of the pandemic. It just so happened that it was happening in the midst of that. I had more time to think about that and how I wanted to do that, what it would sound like.
Nathan:And so anyway, yeah, I've been working on some music in 2020, and I just put out a song on Bandcamp, and I've got a few more recorded and love for people to check that out.
T. J.:And you can find that at nathan wheeler memphis at bandcamp.com.
Nathan:Yeah. So nathan wheelermemphis.bandcamp.com.
T. J.:Yeah. There you go.
Nathan:And and then as far as the book goes, that did kinda come out of, the time that I had over twenty twenty that it wasn't, you know, where I was traveling on weekends and doing events and things like that. So I've been thinking about an idea and I just started kind of writing down my thoughts for that. And once I kind of got through that, I sent it to some people just to reflect on and they thought, you know, I had a good idea for something. So I just started writing more and more and researching more and more. And yeah, now I'm partnered with a youth ministry organization called the Youth Cartel who's gonna publish it.
Nathan:My first manuscript is due on April 1, so wish me luck on that.
T. J.:How far along are you?
Nathan:Well, I am better than I was a few weeks ago. But, yeah, I I it's still got a ways to go for sure. But anyway, the book itself is, you know, I really value theological reflection and I really value youth ministry. So to me, the it's a contribution into that space that I hope will be theoretical but also practical for youth workers because I know all of us who are in youth ministry, you know, we like our theory but sometimes we just need to understand how to put this stuff into practice and what would it look like to do that. So that's kind of the book.
Nathan:It's gonna be, you know, a theological reflection on youth ministry, but also hoping to expand what that might look like, what types of theology, I guess, we're using in youth ministry, and, hopefully creating a practical guide for that.
T. J.:Do you have a working title?
Nathan:Yeah. I do. It's, it's called a faith of their own, a theological field guide for youth ministry.
T. J.:Alright. So we need to start looking for that sometime in 2022.
Nathan:Yeah.
T. J.:Yeah. Maybe you'll be able to have a book signing by that time.
Nathan:I'll do it at my concerts. Okay.
T. J.:Well, Nathan, thank you for sharing your time. I appreciate it.
Nathan:Yeah. I'm glad to be here.
T. J.:Well, thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with us on our next journey down Cumberland Road.
Nathan:How do we go on living with all we've undone? The good, the bad, the past, but well done. Can we survive
