Pat Pickett - We Do Ministry Wherever We Are (Part 2)
Exploring faith journeys and sharing inspiring that embody the good news of God. You are listening to The Cumberland Road. I am your host, TJ Malinoski. In this episode, I continue my conversation with Reverend Doctor Pat Pickett. She's a minister, an artist, and a professor. Pat continues her faith journey as she explores the deep calling into ministry, facing the difficulties of a divorce, and she shares a transition in her faith when she becomes a chaplain in a state institution. She completes our conversation as she discusses the rewards of leading a worshiping community. My friends, enjoy the conclusion of my conversation with Pat Pickett.
T.J.:Okay. So, was this retroactive or for future opportunities?
Pat:It was for everything from then on. Yeah. Well, it was not long after that we were gonna move, Bill told me. We I'd I'd been accepted into Claremont School of Theology, which was my dream school of all time. I was going there to get a PhD in Hebrew.
Pat:I wanted to find out answers no one has given me yet. I still didn't I mean, I know I had different thoughts about the Adam and Eve event anyway at this time, but still, I wanted people to be able to give an answer to stuff like that. So I thought if I know the language, I'm gonna learn something. And that was my my whole reason for going to Claremont. I'm gonna learn Hebrew.
Pat:And frank and and barry worked it out so I could still be the dre there. But then Bill said, no. I get to be president. We're moving to New York. Oh, that killed me.
Pat:I thought, oh, we're going, when's it my turn? You know, when is my turn? Well, we moved to New York. And lo and behold, I find myself 10 minutes away from Colgate Rochester Divinity School. I went I didn't tell Bill.
Pat:I went there and registered, and it showed up in the newspaper. Wife of president.
T.J.:Is that how he found out?
Pat:Yes. It is. I'm sorry to say it is. Yes.
T.J.:And I
Pat:said, well, that's how I found out you were gonna be president. You know? Come on. So anyway, okay, I get through divinity school. I'm a see I in our middle of year, but because I came in at a different time and all that, my we we had to be a student pastor in a church other than our own denomination.
Pat:Well, that was no problem. I was the only Catholic in the school. So, you know, I went wherever. But, anyway, at the end of my term as a student pastor, one of the deacons came to me and said, Pat, we've had a meeting, and we want you to be our pastor. And we don't care if you're Catholic.
Pat:You can be Catholic. It's okay. They're a little more liberal up there. I'm sorry. It was really funny.
Pat:Oh, so I'm just thinking, oh my goodness. This is unreal. So I go to the bishop who happens to be a friend. And I say, Matt, they want me to be their pastor. Isn't that great?
Pat:And he said, Pat, you can't do that. I said, why not? They said, I can be Catholic. What's the what's the deal? He said, the church doesn't call women yet.
Pat:He was all for women's ordination, but he said the church doesn't call women yet. Well, I was ticked. And I said, well, what if God does? Another one of my questions, they couldn't answer. So he turns around and walks out of his office, and I'm standing there in a puddle of tears.
Pat:And I thought, I won't say what I said. But I walked out. I walked right over to the church, and I said, yes. I'll be your pastor. And, of course, that caused some interesting dynamics in our house.
Pat:But, because when Bill was hired, he was the 1st lay president at that college, and we came as an Irish Catholic family. Well, now all of a sudden, doesn't look I'm still Irish, but I I'm changing things a little. And, of course, that was an issue. Mhmm. And, but I did it.
Pat:And I said, look. You are now president. You got what you wanted. I'm sorry. This is what God I I I use God's name.
Pat:I said, blame it on God. He said, don't give me that God stuff. I said, well, I don't know what else to give it give you because it is a god thing. I said none of this woulda happened. I said, how likely is it?
Pat:I mean, the divinity school was blown away that they asked me to be their pastor and still be Catholic. I mean, it was it was unreal. But, anyway, that's what happened. That's how I got from one to another, but that that whole year had really been preparing me in a way. I mean, I knew what was going on.
Pat:I I I I learned what, you know, the confessions of faith were in different places. I knew what polity meant. You know, the names the parts of worship were different. I miss sacraments. I miss the idea of sacraments.
Pat:But at the same time, I think even now, there are things that are sacramental that don't have to be labeled by any church to be sacrament. That Jesus did the same thing. That's how I feel. But that's how I got to be something other than. And when I was finally, at at one point, I decided it isn't honest for me to be Catholic or to at least in label and name be Catholic and serve this church this way.
Pat:And, and so I, I went, I asked to be ordained. And of course, it didn't happen overnight. I had to go through a whole lot of stuff. But,
T.J.:What affiliation did this church that you were serving, did it have a denominational affiliation?
Pat:Oh, yeah. It actually, there were 2. I was a pastor at Lake Avenue Baptist, which is American Baptist, which is totally you wouldn't recognize it with Southern Baptist at all. They're they're totally different.
T.J.:Okay.
Pat:But I came out of the, United Methodist. And coming here, the bishop here wouldn't transfer my ordination.
T.J.:Okay. So in New York
Pat:It was 2 different ones. Mhmm.
T.J.:Okay. So in New York, you were actually ordained United Methodist minister. Is that correct?
Pat:No. I I was no. That it was a transition. It it was a very strange happening because I was tran transitioning, and it was both. I don't know how you explain that other than, one has elders, one has deacons, and then I became pastor at United Med at, Asbury.
T.J.:Okay. So the the church was a union church?
Pat:No. Not really. They were separate, but there was a strange connection at the divinity school. I don't even know how to explain it right now because, actually, Asbury is much, much bigger. And, but everybody came out of a divinity school that had started out as American Baptist, but it was a union now.
Pat:And so there were Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, American Baptist, no Southern Baptist. No u well, there might have been a UCC or 2 there. But it the whole union idea was different. And,
T.J.:When you were seeking ordination, you know, as you were wrestling with, you know, the Catholic church and pursuing ministry there, what what church, what denomination were you seeking ordination in?
Pat:Well, that was an interesting concept because the Episcopal Bishop came to me and said, we want to ordain you. And you can seeing as how Lake Avenue doesn't care what you are, It doesn't matter. And so I was really torn. I was confused at that time to be sure. And when hands were laid upon, laid on me, I mean, I really I really am a hybrid because because Copal Bishop was there.
Pat:The there was a Catholic priest. There was well, they they they don't transfer anything. It has to be a Catholic bishop, but it wasn't a bishop. There was a Lutheran. There was, American Baptist.
Pat:Let me think. There were Catholic nuns. All these people were laying hands on me, and I said, I don't I don't know about labels, God. Where am I? Who am I?
Pat:I don't know. Mhmm. I'm a Christian. And yet when I came down here, I came down here as United Methodist to transfer my ordination to CP. But, the fact and I was confused again because why Asbury itself had found me a job at at discipleship board of discipleship.
Pat:And the bishop, who was new, basically said, we've got enough women here. And I'm going, now what? And I fell into the CP church by accident, probably. I didn't know a thing about it. I knew Presbyterian, but I didn't know CP.
Pat:I mean, I didn't know there was a difference, really.
T.J.:Right. So, let let me you can correct me, but let me fill in some gaps. So the relationship, the marriage with your husband dissolved, and part of that healing, you had moved to Tennessee.
Pat:Correct. Right. And the reason I did that was because we were living in the president's house. We didn't have a house. I was the one that had to leave.
Pat:And so
T.J.:What what part of, you know, moving to another state, what was drawn you to Tennessee?
Pat:Well, I, to be honest, I had never been here. I've never been this far south in my life. But, well, I take that back. I was at I was at Vanderbilt. I was there on a study leave.
Pat:Asbury had sent me on a study leave, which got me to be able to finish my doctorate because I flipped. When I got when I got to Colgate and there wasn't just I couldn't really get a PhD in Hebrew. I thought, well, I'll get an MDiv. So that's what I did at that time. And, but now I was working on a doctorate.
Pat:And Asbury said, you know, they gave me 7 or they gave me what was it? 3 months, I guess. So I came down here. Because being a president's wife, you can't you don't have any time, plus having kids that are in high school or college, whatever. You don't have any time yourself.
Pat:So I got 3 months down here. And I met Levon at, a talk in van at Vanderbilt, and turns out she's in old test
T.J.:So let me interrupt you. So, just to catch up. So you're in Tennessee. You're at Vanderbilt Divinity School to continue your education, with, in in Hebrew, in old testament in Hebrew, and you're working on a PhD, and you run into an individual named Levon. So there may be there may be individuals who are listening that has no idea who LaVaughn is.
T.J.:So, just kinda give context Yeah.
Pat:He told you. Okay.
T.J.:Well, yeah. Just give context to who LaVonne is, and then I think this is where your Cumberland Presbyterian connection comes in.
Pat:My connection with CP. Yeah. Yeah. LaVonne was I was at, actually, I wasn't taking classes from them. I was down there to have time alone to write.
Pat:I mean, I I had all finished all my classes. I was really writing my dissertation.
T.J.:Okay.
Pat:And they had talked, you know, at Vanderbilt, they've got talks all the time. Well, there was one really great one, and it was old testament. And I wandered around it, and I met LeVon, and she happened to be an Old Testament scholar herself. She didn't go on in it. She had she got her masters of divinity at Vanderbilt too.
Pat:She had gone to Bethel. And she has all kinds of relatives in CP church, but she she didn't she she went to, Vanderbilt Divinity School instead of the seminary. And, anyway, we got to talking and, you know, how it is sometimes. Well, I didn't know anybody really there in Tennessee, and we got to talking and and we talked a long time after that one talk. And then, she went home and I went to the dorm, whatever.
Pat:And we, I don't remember. We didn't have cell phones then. So it was really hard to figure. I I can't remember how we connected again, but we did connect. And, I think she just came to Vanderbilt.
Pat:Anyway, we had lunch again and everything. And so I finished my time at Vanderbilt and I go home to tenant to New York. And when I get home, I found out some things were going on that were not going to be great as far as our marriage is concerned. So, Luvahn had written to me. This was new new computer stuff and wanted to know if I got back okay and was everything I said.
Pat:Yeah. And there was no one I could say anything to about, you know, discovery and all. Because here I was a pastor. And you don't have friends friends or you're not, you know, not not girlfriends. Like, you can tell anything to that are members of your church.
Pat:So anyway, I we started writing and it was a while before I actually told her what was going on. And then, I I wasn't real sure how it was gonna end, you know? I mean, it was it was the beginning of my figuring out that our marriage really wasn't gonna gonna make it. But, I still had to well, the part that I was writing for my dissertation was a ballet that I was gonna have. And I did.
Pat:Yeah, we had the ballet. It was at, Asbury First, and the Rochester Ballet Company put it on during worship. It was a worship service. Full ballet, my mentor wrote it, anthem. You know, it it was beautiful the way it worked out, but then that was kind of the beginning of the end there.
Pat:When now this is in March. By September, I knew that it wasn't gonna gonna last. And I wasn't going to go my sister. At first, I thought of Minnesota. I thought I I I have to where am I gonna live?
Pat:I didn't I wasn't gonna I told the church, I'm I'm not putting you through a divorce. I think that's where it's gonna go, but I'm not gonna do that. I wanna resign. And they wouldn't let me resign. Took me 3 times, and I finally got to resign.
Pat:But in the meantime, my sister, his husband lost his job. And they had adolescence at home and I thought, mm-mm, that's not gonna work. I'm not going there.
T.J.:Yeah.
Pat:And and I was talking to LaVonne all the time during this mess.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Pat:And she suggested, well, why don't you come here till you get your head on straight?
T.J.:And and LaVonne is, what what is her last name?
Pat:Griffin.
T.J.:Griffin. So LaVonne Griffin.
Pat:And she worked she worked with Harold Davis. She worked in the center. She was her her aunt Fanny or Franny and her husband were missionaries to Japan. They had all their kids in Japan. I mean, she was she had it she knew CP pretty well.
Pat:I mean, she was pretty pretty involved in CP. Doctor Todd was her mentor. He wanted her to take his place. She said, I don't do Hebrew and Greek. And he said, yes.
Pat:You do. And she said, no. I don't. And, anyway, she worked at the she she wrote youth literature at the center for for when Harold was there. Harold Davis.
Pat:And Roy Blackburn was her mentor, and Lilletta was her best friend. And, I mean, you know, Hubert was another friend of hers. I I tell you, when I came and I went to the 1st general assembly, which is really the only one I've ever gone to, I sat between Pepper, which was another one of her big friends, and Hubert, John Pepper and Hubert Morrill. And there I am, brand new, sitting between these 2 giants as if I'd been there all the time, and I'm going, this is God's sense of humor, truly. What am I doing here?
T.J.:I bet. I bet. So you leave New York, and you end up, being provided shelter by LaVonne.
Pat:LaVonne. Right. Yeah. I had no place to go.
T.J.:Yeah. So you're using this time for healing as your marriage has come to an end. You're not currently serving a congregation. Mhmm. You know, you don't have a ministry.
T.J.:So if you don't mind, if you feel comfortable in sharing. So where is your mind and where is your relationship with God during this time?
Pat:I was pretty ticked. In fact, I felt I didn't say this before, but I did something very similar. When I was in the orphanage in a couple of years, I had it with God, and I took my Bible and threw it in Mississippi. I said, that's it. We're done.
Pat:And, I got to the farm, and I thought, what am I doing in Tennessee? Good god. This is terrible. I didn't get it. I didn't get the accent.
Pat:I couldn't even understand the people on the news and the weather report. I thought, what is this place? And And
T.J.:for those who are listening, who are part of Tennessee, just a disclaimer here. Pat moved to Tennessee, and you have yet to leave. So these are your first impressions of the state.
Pat:Yeah. Right. I'm still here. I'm still here. Yes.
Pat:Yes. You Tennesseans, I'm still here. If you're listening, if you came this far, I'm still here. So, yeah, what am I gonna do? I mean, I I there was no place for me in United Methodist Church anymore.
Pat:And, well, LeVaughn had all these friends. And, turns out, e g, Sims in Clarksville new places that had openings. And that's how I got I got to Woodbine. So I hadn't changed anything. I was still whatever I was.
Pat:I would I, honest to god, I don't I'm not I think I'm a hybrid. I really don't know what I I I mean, I'm parts of so many things, and so I get to I get to Woodbine. And there was a misunderstanding because I thought I belonged. I thought I was getting a job with Brookhaven and Woodbine, and it turned out it was only Woodbine. But that's okay because that was a transition part because the best part of my ministry ever, ever, ever came when I was there through Gene Goff, and I went straight to Clover Bottom.
Pat:And I was I was a chaplain for 13 years, and it was it was God's it's almost like a reward for all is I know. I'm I'm jumping ahead.
T.J.:For for those who don't know, what is Cloverbottom and what does chaplaincy mean at Cloverbottom?
Pat:Well, at Clover Bottom, Clover Bottom was a state institution for persons with intellectual disabilities. And they were still called mentally retarded, which, of course, I rebelled against and said, no. I am gonna call them differently able because after I was with them for a little while, they certainly proved it to me. And that's where my spirituality really became alive because I had just finished 6 years of Hebrew and Greek, and I was going to a place where 80% of the people couldn't speak at all. And I had to figure out how to be and make God alive for them.
Pat:And what happened was they made God alive for me. And I that was my real divinity school. Clover Bottom was it for me. I couldn't I If everyone could go to a place like Cloverbottom, you wouldn't need any textbooks. You would be able to learn and love and know what it means to be a Christian coming out of a place like that.
Pat:I tell you, I said leaving the continent was the hardest thing. The most difficult thing for me was when Clover Bottom closed.
T.J.:And for context, Clover Bottom is a residential facility, round the clock residential facility for adults, with intellectual disabilities. Right. You said earlier there was a State institution. It no longer serves in that capacity in the State of Tennessee. No.
Pat:No. They they have 3.
T.J.:So there, if you would, briefly kinda talk about the the the role and the life of a chaplain in a state institution. And what did that look like at that time?
Pat:Oh my goodness. Thankfully, I had a superintendent that said, do it. Just do it because she didn't know what to do. Mhmm. And the person before me made all these people come together and sit and listen to him talk for an hour on Sunday.
Pat:And I said, oh, no. That's not me. I don't know what I'm gonna do yet. But I'm not gonna preach at them ever, ever. And gradually, I mean, I really was learning by the seat of my pants, because no one had taught me what to do with these people.
Pat:And the very first thing I did was I I said, I've got I'm gonna get to know them. And I I talked to every single one of them. And at that time, they were almost when I went there, they were close to 400. And that's what I did every week. And, of course, according to Hoyle, I had to have some kind of service.
Pat:Well, I did. And we had processions, and we had paintings, and we had wheelchair dances, and we did all kinds of things with talking. And I taught them sign. I taught them 5 signs that we could do in worship. And every week, well, I had something on Sunday and something on Wednesday.
Pat:And, I it was just I worked with the music therapist, and we came up with some wonderful ideas to have these people involved. And one of the things that I did was, for the first time in many of their lives, they they had never been to a Christmas pageant. Okay. So they were 40 50 years old, and they never got to be in anything. I had one.
Pat:And I made up characters. Not only did we have the Meiji, but we had Meiji dancers. And we had drummer boys, and we we had a village, and we used the whole gym, and parents came. And I'll never forget one mom who said, Pat, my blonde blue eyed daughter always got to be merry in the Christmas pageant. This is the first time my daughter, who's here, is an angel.
Pat:She never got to be at anything because she she had a disability. And, that was you know, I'll always love Christmas for that because when I left that night, I said, dear god, if I had to lose everything I had in New York to be here for this moment, I I'd never do it again. I I I would do the same again, just to be here. I'd never say no to you again. This was the most life changing event for me to be with these people.
T.J.:Even with all the pain and the loss that comes through the change in a relationship and in divorce, ultimately divorce.
Pat:Right.
T.J.:Your, your ministry there at Clover Bottom fulfilled you in ways that you hadn't been before?
Pat:Absolutely. And I loved I learned what it meant to love for the first time, really. And I can't even I'm sorry. I can't even begin to explain what that's like. It's almost mystery, but, yeah, God God became very much alive for me then.
Pat:And my relationship with God today is is one that's ever expanding, and I always go back to clover bottom is starting that kind of expansion, which means that I have to be evermore and more inclusive of God's creation. And I don't just mean people. I mean, that the land that I live on is a sacrament in a way that I see the land as a blessing. Mhmm. The land is a good creation, and I somehow have to preserve this land I'm on.
Pat:I don't live in any kind of luxury. I try to live simply because there's more for other people if I do. Even if I don't give it to them, there's more. I guess that's how I feel. And and I feel like, okay.
Pat:The ministry I have now is in transition in the sense that I'm trying to get back to creating some kind of ministry for those people who there are at least 5,000 people in Tennessee area who have intellectual disabilities, and churches are not receiving them. And there are other places that do, and I want that to happen for us.
T.J.:Pat, we've spent some time and you've walked me through your life journey, which has been your faith journey. Let's talk about where you are today in terms of your ministry and your faith. And I really like asking, each of the guests, and they've each one has been very patient with me. But I like asking, where where is God in your life today?
Pat:When I was at Clover Bottom, one of the things that was affirmed for me was the way I pray. And I know that, it may not be what everybody get does or how they get there, but if I can begin prayer with art in some way, I can skip the words that mess things up. And I can get to a place where I'm comfortable just sitting with God most of the time. Yeah. I do the the prayers we're supposed to say, and I'll read the Psalms.
Pat:I teach the Psalms. But I find that I've come to a place with God right now where I'm most comfortable just sitting in God's presence. Now that may sound like some none, but maybe that's what we're all supposed to be in the end. I don't know. It it's it's, I don't like calling God God because that's sort of a a generic term.
Pat:I'm more comfortable just being. That's not to say that I haven't gotten upset with God in the last couple of years because I have. And I'm not afraid to tell God exactly how I feel about stuff. And I do. I talk about people and I talk about things and I talk about the church, because I don't think it's moving fast enough.
Pat:But God has expanded when I think about from where I was as a little girl, except, I there is a real, comfortable place. There's always been a comfortable place for me with God. It's been casual even. I'm not afraid to say or think or be who I am, And god's probably the only one who accepts me exactly the way I am.
T.J.:Yeah. I don't you know, I would say intimate. Casual casual is kind of a brush off or I always think of the word, you know, acquaintance or casual, but I think there's a level of intimacy that can be found in in a relationship through Christ that that knows you so deeply and so intimately that there's a level of comfort and that authenticity that you can be frank and open with your expressions and emotions.
Pat:I agree. I when I say casual, I wanted to say that by casual, I think I I I didn't mean it quite the way you you thought of it. But by casual, I meant I don't have to wear makeup. I don't even have to wear a bra. I mean, you know, I'm just me.
Pat:And and yet there is that intimacy. You're absolutely right. But that has grown. I never would have thought when I was a child, when I was thinking of boys and actually boy crazy, that I would ever think in terms, like, of of being intimate with God because those those words meant something different. But, yeah, being intimate is really just being real.
Pat:Being able to be real and not worried that someone's gonna dump you.
T.J.:Yeah. I think we've I think we've blended casual and intimate kind of together and they mean something similar. I think we're saying the same thing in a different way.
Pat:You know, at one time, one time, I said, God can be our lover. And I remember one of the elders saying, you can't say that. And I thought, well, I just did. And then I thought, I got it. And and that's that's part of being a minister too or a pastor.
Pat:You gotta be careful not to keep things from people, but to take people where they are. And so part of my intimacy with God is is understanding where people are and not hurting them with things that I may think or where I've gone or or what I'm how I see things now. My experiences are different from theirs, and, I I need to be more aware of that, and that's part of being loving loving God because that's the only commandment that really counts anyway. You know, the loving God and loving your neighbor and loving yourself and loving yourself is is becoming honest about who you are. And so I guess that is the most I can say in language that's understood is that, yes, I have matured in the faith, and I understand words now that I never would have as a child in my relationship with God.
Pat:I sometimes where where I lack sometimes is trust because of the way I was dealt the deck when I was growing up. And so trust is something I have to work on, but, communication is good. That's one thing you need in a relationship.
T.J.:Yeah. So trust in yourself, trust in others, trust in God?
Pat:Oh, the above. I think God is even I mean, there are times when I, you know, first of all, I don't like for myself intercessory prayer because I figured you already know what I want. So what do lovers say to each other when, you know, you don't really talk a lot for one thing I know. But you love each other. And, and so that's sort of what my prayer is.
Pat:And yes, I like I said before, I I'll do the prayers that we were supposed to do. But at the same time, I'm I'm working on a relationship, which is very different from what I started out as as a kid. And even as an adult in divinity school. You know? Like I said, where I learned to pray was at clover bottom because they couldn't talk.
Pat:And all of a sudden, I realized what I was doing was okay. That was where it is. The the the the nonverbal kind of thing is okay. Right.
T.J.:We can communicate in multiple ways to God. Yeah. Pat, you are busy in doing a couple different things in terms of ministry right now. You have been teaching at the program of alternate studies for several years, many years, and you're also leading a worshiping community. Yes.
T.J.:So if you would talk briefly about each of those and and what that's like and what's happening.
Pat:Okay. Let me talk about pause first. I'm so glad that the CPs have pause because it is a place where people who are called by God might not ever be able to answer a call in in in another tradition simply because it's a different it's an alternative way to get everything finished across all the t's and dot all the i's. But more than that, the relationships that I have had at Paz have been saving for me, and I understand that so much of what happened in my life has made me a channel for people who have had some kind of other and and some kind of dissimilar experiences and they they don't know where to go with it, and I often can become just a good listener. And so as they're trying to go through this wonderful thing of being called, and there's ministry and there are elders and kids and jobs and no money and inflation and politics and everything else.
Pat:They have these personal things that I can be there for them, or maybe somebody else can't. And I know that in several cases, in one case in particular, I was a channel. I I didn't do anything. I was just there. But later on, I found out from this person that I was a lifesaver.
Pat:And I said, No, I didn't save your life. You did you you you did it. But he said, no. You had to be there for me to do it. So I thank God for that because I think, well, okay.
Pat:Now I know why that happened, whatever it was. But that's happened so many times at Paros that I could. Paraz was the one thing that saved me.
T.J.:Yeah. And you have been leading a worshiping community for a couple years now, and it has changed shape and size and meaning and purpose for someone who has no idea what a worshiping community is, and and you're leading 1 and have been leading 1. I'd really be interested to hear it in your own words.
Pat:Well, for one thing, it is absolutely true that they change and every one of them is different. And the first one happened because I thought I was finished with ministry, period. I I thought I'm done with this. This is over. And then lo and behold, like I say, God has a sense of humor.
Pat:And on my porch appear 2 men who I was involved with in ministry, and they said, can we just come in and pray with you? And I thought, oh my god. What what are you doing? I'm done with you again. So not only did they
T.J.:And they were they were a part of the, previous church
Pat:Yes. That They were. That you were served. Yes. Yes.
Pat:There was a difficulty there, and and and they weren't gonna stay. But what happened was, the next it was shortly after that, I'm not even sure what day it was. But that day when they came, we prayed for a good couple hours on my porch. I said, come in the house. No.
Pat:We're on the porch. They wanted to be on the porch. Okay. Well, in a few, not long after that, my house on Sunday had 21 people, 14 to 21 people praying together. And we became a community of sorts.
Pat:COVID happened, and I tried to keep them together, but there it was impossible. I would go to each house and stand outside, and they'd be on their porch or have their door open, or we'd we'd we'd pray that way, or we'd pray outside, or, some of them were too poor. They weren't on Internet, so we couldn't even Zoom. I mean, that's why I had to go to individual houses. Some of them were so poor that they didn't have any way of paying for, electricity or food, and the church helped them out.
Pat:The OEO helped them out. I mean, it was a beautiful thing for me to see how the CP church came in to help them. And then one of the children was deathly ill, and that pulled us together a little bit more, but, really, a lot of these people were afraid. And there was no way to keep them together. And I'm thinking, well, now what?
Pat:What what am I supposed to do? And it was almost like having to reinvent myself. And I thought, well, okay. We've got Zoom. Thank you.
Pat:What a wonderful gift Zoom is. And all
T.J.:of a
Pat:sudden I thought, okay. I can teach. I can do that. So the first thing I did was gather together. I just put the word out.
Pat:I said, okay. We're not gonna have church, and you're not gonna have church, and nobody's having church, so let's do something for Lent. I think Lent was the first thing I did. Let's do something for Lent together on Zoom. Gathered a bunch of people, CPs.
Pat:Oh, they were all CPs. And pastors, lay people, whatever, and we had lent. And I thought, well, gee, this is great. And COVID continued. And then I thought, okay.
Pat:I know lots of different people. How would it work if I put or invited people of all different faiths together? You would that be possible? I thought, well, try it. So I did.
Pat:And we got maybe, oh, we had, CPs, PCUSA, Lutheran, Catholic, Episcopalian, method no. We didn't have any Methodists. I remember that. That's right. No Methodists.
Pat:But, you know, I have they're all different. We even had, a Mennonite, I think, and one one Southern Baptist. One Southern Baptist. And I thought, well, this is really great. And we did Advent, and the Southern Baptist came because she never had ad they don't have Advent.
Pat:They she didn't know what it was. And so that was interesting. So so that happened. And and these kinds of gatherings are all very different because the people are different every time. And I tell them, well, we didn't know what to call this worshiping community, and there was a kind of question about it.
Pat:And and they are not retreats. I am convinced that the church is moving in directions like this because what happened what is so, I wanna say, mystical, is that people begin to discuss, talk about the scripture together. It's not someone telling them what it is anymore. It's, gosh, what do I feel about it? How does that scripture work in my life?
Pat:Does it work in my life? Can it work in my life? Gee, this is something different. I'm not having to do what someone else says. This is me.
Pat:This is you know, it's not Jesus in me. That's not the thing it is. It's us. Together, we go to God. And and and that's the part I like about it because we are community.
Pat:And it's happened differently in every single one of these things I've done. I I did one on caregiving for people with Alzheimer's and dementia, and that was kind of a trial run. It it it was with people that I needed to get some feedback about how to do this because being a caregiver is really tough, and there are a lot more of them right now. And that was a a very different kind of one, but the prayer that came out of there was really worship. Now the worship part of it, if you wanna be technical, probably isn't as long as a worship service, but the whole thing lasted.
Pat:They they were doing it during the week. I can't remember a congregation I ever served where there was that much talk about what happened on Sunday as what happens in these worshiping communities. The last one I did or participated in was with another CP minister, And we're continuing to get feedback from people.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Pat:And it's it but it was a different group of people. And we were different, and we shared it. We learned different things from each other. And so each time there is one of these things, they can last 4 weeks, 3 weeks, 2 weeks, all sorts of different times. But every time we come together, they're different people.
Pat:It's a once in a lifetime time that this group is going to be a worshiping community together. And I don't know. You know, we're used to having a church you belong to, where you go every Sunday, you hear a message, you get up so that you get home in time for the titans. And then, you know, you go back next week or Wednesday night for a Bible study. But, you know, these kinds of things are a little different.
Pat:And maybe it's because they're different that they're acting or or coming out this way, but they're worshiping communities. And, I'm convinced of that. But I'm I'm working toward as soon as COVID is I don't know if it'll ever be over, but my my goal is to try and bring together some of these people with intellectual difficulties. The ones I like to call differently able, because churches really are not bringing them in, or their families are embarrassed and don't want to. It's both ways.
Pat:And and from when I gather, they're at 5,000 plus in this area that need some kind of relationship with the church. So that's where I am right now.
T.J.:We've kinda hit in in our conversation, about church. And you're talking about one of the areas and maybe even a community that the church universal could reach out to and help serve is those with intellectual, disabilities. Yeah. You've also talked about one of the wonderful things that the church is doing is, the worshiping community that you were describing. What else do you see the church in this day and age that is really helping society, that is really reaching out, that is really sharing the good news so that people can respond?
Pat:I think that if you take the United States, you're going to find and and I only say this because I've lived in umpteen number of states. You're going to find churches from every denomination that are doing exactly what you say. And every denomination has searches that do zip. And I think what's happening because of Zoom and because of COVID, and maybe even because we're so split as a nation in other ways, we're coming together in ways I had never dreamed that we could. And so there's overlap.
Pat:There are churches that are doing incredible things with racism. There are churches that are inclusive, no matter what you look like, or say that you are or what your theology happens to be. I think we're in I think we're in a place that really is in transition. There will be people that will want always to be in a church church. There are others that will say, oh, I'm more spiritual.
Pat:And then there are others who are saying, we are the church. And those are the people I mean, those are the people I'm interested in. And I know that we're supposed to be out looking for everybody, but but the people who can say, we're church, I think, are the ones that don't focus so much on how Jesus died, but on how Jesus lived. And I wanna focus on how Jesus lived. Because when Jesus said, do this in memory of me, he wasn't talking about breaking bread and drinking wine.
Pat:He wanted them to remember all the stories and the parables and and the the encounters he had with people who were different. And he wanted to wanted us to know and be comfortable having tax collectors and lepers and adulterers and everybody as a friend. And the toughest one is to love your enemy or love your enemy. Don't don't hurt your that's tough today because of Ukraine. But we all have that tendency too.
Pat:I hate to think of it that way, but we we do have those kinds of things in us. But at the same time, I think if we understand we are church and it's not just Jesus and me, we're gonna be a lot better. That's where I am. I I I I know people are in different places, but for me, it's my my spirituality as far as a minister is concerned is we, we, together, we go to God, not I go to God. Yeah, I talk to God, but it's because I'm I'm part of this community.
Pat:This community is and that's very, very old testament. Just saying. Just want you all to know that. And Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus taught from the Old Testament. There was no New Testament for Jesus.
Pat:He had to teach from the Old Testament. I love that.
T.J.:Pat, you have walked me through a very rich and twisty and turny and hilly and valley filled life and faith. And thank you for walking me through through that and to where you are today. Your journey is filled with inspiration, and if somebody wanted to reach out and make contact with you or ask you some more questions or get more acquainted with you, where do you wanna point people? Where can they find you, Pat?
Pat:Where can you find me? My goodness, I actually am trying. I'm not a techie, as you know, but I'm trying to get a web page set up so that I can answer past people ask me that too. Well, how can we get a hold of you? Well okay.
Pat:I hope to have a web page pretty soon. But in the meantime, what can I say? Call Paz.
T.J.:Alright.
Pat:Yeah. I know.
T.J.:Yeah. If if you're if you're interested in in reaching out to Pat, you can look up, the program of alternate studies. Pat is a regular instructor there through the course work, and they can make connections for you in that way. Pat, thank you for sharing, and thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for taking me on a twisty ride, and thank you for your ministry.
Pat:Well, thank you for having me, and I I know it's been a long edit well. Edit well, PJ. Edit well. Alright. I I love being here.
Pat:I love being with you. And and the church has given me an opportunity to use my gifts and answer my call, answer the call that I believe I have. So thank you.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this conversation with Pat Pickett. If you enjoy Cumberland Road, consider subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or your favorite podcasting site. And now let me close with some words Pat wrote a couple years ago when asked by Saint Benedict's Monastery to write on her faith journey. As I grew into a woman, married, and had babies, there was little time for traditional prayer. But with a whisper to God each morning, babies and diapers and cooking and cleaning became my prayer. Thank you. Thank you for adding to my language of prayer and blessing me with a new way of living. Thank you for listening to The Cumberland Road.
