Dave Tucker - Finding God Amidst Our Circumstances
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the Good News of God, this is The The Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski, an ordained minister, a counselor specializing in grief and loss, a police chaplain, and cohost of the podcast, Spiritual Living in a Chaotic World, this is a conversation with Dave Tucker. Dave is no stranger to grief and loss, and he shares with me about a pivotal moment in his life and the life of his family that inspired him to embrace the theology of a God of grace and finding a church family that helped him heal and a renewed zeal for ministry. Dave Tucker, minister at the Saint Timothy Cumberland Presbyterian Church, is today's guest on the Cumberland Road. Dave Tucker, thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Dave:Thank you for asking.
T.J.:Tell me for a few minutes who you are, where you're at, what you're up to.
Dave:I'm I'm probably the newest pastor in all of Cumberland Presbyterianism, if that's a word. I have, I earned my diploma in May of 2020. I like to joke with my congregation that I really I've never really graduated from seminary, because of the pandemic, but, they told me, I I haven't graduated yet. So I earned my diploma in, May of 2020, started pastoring here at Saint Timothy Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Bedford, Texas, the end of June, 1st July.
Dave:So, been just having the time of my life. Have been working with the, Bedford Police Department as a chaplain. Also working doing some work with with the Fort Worth Police Department, from time to time, as a chaplain as well, and, just loving ministry.
T.J.:So are you a native of the Dallas Fort Worth area?
Dave:I am. Yeah. I was I was born, well, I was born I'm a native Texan. I was born, in the Rio Grande Valley, but, pretty much most of my life in this area.
T.J.:So what brought you you've been part of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church for, as they say, a hot minute. Yeah. How did how did you find the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, or how did how did it find you?
Dave:You you know, that's a good question. Did it find me, or did I find it? I think God led me to this faith. I've always been a minister most of my adult life and, pastoring lay pastoring, for another church, and, excuse me, lay pastoring for another church. And as I was reading with the, with the idea of preaching, I was noticing things that I didn't notice before in the Bible.
Dave:Things about grace, things about a God who says, I choose you, you know, things about, a a God that just loves and and the expectation is for us to love and and how we're not saved by anything that we do, but through what God through Jesus Christ did for us. And so as I'm reading these passages in the bible for the first time in a new way, I started working these into my sermons. And, the funny thing is people didn't like what I had to say because they wanted to have a checklist. You know? Just tell me what to do.
Dave:You know? Do give me a checklist of things I need to do to be saved, and and and that that's easier for us. You know? Or, or there there are people out there who want to have a transactional god, you know, where if you do this for god, then god will do this for you. You know?
Dave:And and that's not what I was finding. And so interestingly enough, pulpit started dropping off. I I used I had a bad up. At one point, I had a 3 month waiting list. I was preaching at a different church every single week, and, and they just started to drop off.
Dave:And I'm thinking, okay, god. Now what?
T.J.:You were talking about how you found, a grace Yeah. That was, oozing through the biblical text and, how that was speaking to you in a new way as a lay pastor. So what was it about grace that your eyes were open to something new?
Dave:I spent most of my growing up years as a child being afraid that I wasn't good enough to be saved, that, you know, I was told all my life that Jesus is coming soon and just being terrified of that because I wasn't anywhere ready for Jesus to come, not even close. Even as the kid, I was thinking, man, I got a lot of work to do. I'm not ready for this. So there was this understanding as I was reading about grace and a God that says, I choose you. As I'm reading this in in in the biblical text for the first time, I I just it really resounded with me.
Dave:It's it's like, you know, this whole understanding of there's nothing I can do to save myself, which is both the bad news and the good news. Because what that means is God did all the work through Jesus, and and those were working their way into my sermon, you know, into my sermons as I was preaching, as a lay pastor of of a God that did all the work, through Jesus Christ. And so that that was really resounding with me, and I was so excited. I just wanted everybody to know about it, and I was sharing that in my sermons, and and I had one pastor because I was I was working for a church that that had, like, one pastor for every 3 churches, you know, out in East Texas, you know, in the Piney Woods, you know, there's just, you know, it's very sparsely populated. So I would just help fill pulpits for for pastors while they were not able to be there.
Dave:And I I had this one pastor come up to me and say, you know, I don't know what to do with you. And I didn't know what to do with that with that statement. I don't know. What do you mean? What what are you gonna do with me?
Dave:I don't know. He said, well, you're splitting my church. And I said, how's that possible? He said, I don't know. I don't have time to listen to the tapes, but he says, half my congregation think you're the best thing since sliced bread, and the other half says you're a heretic.
Dave:And I'm like, I'm sorry. I don't wanna cause any division in your church. And so, you know, I gracefully, bowed out. I said, I'm I'm doing you a favor. And so if it's not working, it's not working.
Dave:You know? And so, again, like I said, 1 by 1, these churches started to drop off, one at a time until I was just I had no churches to preach at.
T.J.:So back to the question, maybe maybe this leads up to the answer is, how did you find the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, or how did it find you?
Dave:Yeah. So we went through a crisis in our lives. This would have been about 0 8, 0 9, during the housing market collapse. We lost I lost a good paying job, lost my house, and we were we were living me, my wife, and 2 young kids were living in a 5th wheel, on my parents' property, and I was absolutely devastated. And and I still had this part in my mind where it was like, God, you know, where I had this transactional understanding of God.
Dave:And I'm praying, God, this isn't supposed to happen like this. I'm doing all this stuff for you, and and I've lost everything. And, then one day, somebody invited me to a church in Burleson, Texas called Saint Timothy Cumberland Presbyterian Church. It's now called Pathway Church. And, the guy said, you've got to hear you gotta hear this pastor.
Dave:You you gotta hear the message that's being preached from this pulpit. I think you'll you'll get some comfort, you know, from this. And I, you know, for the longest time, I wasn't interested in going to another church. You know, I was just burned out and discouraged and depressed and dealing with all this other stuff. And so finally, I went on on this friend's insistence, and and I'm just gonna interject right here.
Dave:If anybody's listening and they've been working and trying to convince their friends and their loved ones to come to church, don't stop. Just keep inviting. Don't stop. I'm glad my friend didn't stop. We went to a we went they had a Saturday night service.
Dave:So we went to the Saturday night service. I can still remember the name of the sermon title. The sermon title was losing my religion, and it was about losing your religion for an authentic relationship with God. And as I'm listening to to, pastor Rick Owen, preached this sermon, I looked at my wife and I looked at my kids and all of our mouths were like our jaws were on the floor because he was preaching my sermons. I thought I was the only one with this message.
Dave:I thought I was going crazy. I thought I was seeing something that nobody else was seeing, and yet here's this guy who's a lot smarter than me, preaching this message that I just found out and I was hooked. And we spent the next several years just healing. And, that church, I owe my life to that church.
T.J.:When looking back when you were at a place where you experienced a lot of loss And in your faith journey, what was that like? How did you perceive it at that time? Was it a form of punishment? Was it a sign? What did Dave think when you were walking through that period?
Dave:I never lost faith. I I felt that I failed God, that I had done something that, you know, still a little bit of that, understanding of a transactional God. If you do this, then I'll do this kind of a deal. You know, if you if you serve me, if you do these things, then then I'll bless you with this and that and the other, and and that's just not the God that we serve. You know?
Dave:God knows much more than I do. You know? And and so, I I never blamed God. There was a lot of asking questions. It really felt like somebody yanked the rug out from under me, and so I knew that we had to we had to go back to the basics.
Dave:I I sat down with my wife and and with the kids, and I said, we we missed something somewhere. We're gonna have to go back to the basics and just make this as simple as possible and and and reread and and find God again. So it was never a thing where, well, I'm done with this. You know, this is too hard. I'm done with God now.
Dave:I never I never went there. And I guess I had people in my life that that loved me enough to, to not let me get there.
T.J.:In that rereading, in that rediscovery, what did you find?
Dave:More of the same. You know, more of the same things that I was learning as as a lay pastor, more of the same of of grace, of a God that says, I will never leave you or forsake you. Those that passage right there and then the passage, yeah, I am with you always even into the end of the world where Jesus is saying that to his disciples, as part of the great commission, and dog gone if it didn't feel like it was in the world for for me and my family. You know? I didn't know how we were gonna get out of this mess, And and and yet those those promises just just jumped out of the pages for me and and helped me to understand that, you know, I I I eventually came to a place where I realized that I don't have to have the answers.
Dave:I just have to know who's with me through this. I I have to I have to find where I am in this relationship with this God. You know? This God that says he'll never leave or forsake. And so
T.J.:Which is very different than a transactional relationship because you know exactly where you are and where you stand, and so is God in this case in in terms of of this transaction. Everything is pretty clear, cut. Here's the responsibilities. If a happens, b immediately follows. Yeah.
T.J.:So that must take a very long time to be able to kinda rotate that faith and to look at it in a very, very different way.
Dave:It took some time, but not as long as as as you would think. I I keep track. I I keep track of my timeline of of my life, and and and things that happened in my life, good or bad. I I write down the dates and the time or, you know, the the dates and and what happened and and these things. And so as I look back at this timeline, you know, early 09 is when we lost our home.
Dave:And so, we found pathway around that same time, in 09. What is it now? 2021? How many years ago was that really? You know?
Dave:So so what happened was God created that healing that we needed in that church. And then when I received that healing, I was sitting and watching an ordination in that church for for the youth minister, Josh Fortney, and, and all of a sudden it hit me like a ton of bricks, This burning in my soul of you gotta get back into ministry. It's time. And I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat.
Dave:At that point, we had found an apartment. We were we were not you know, we were doing better than we were, and and so we were, you know, pulling ourselves out of this. And and and, you know, it was like God was saying, okay. You've worn the pew long enough. You've had the healing that you need.
Dave:Now let's get to work. And so I went to pastor Rick. I said, man, I can't sleep. I can't eat. I can't and and pastor Rick said, yeah.
Dave:And I'm not so sure. And so I went and visited him three times, and finally I said, I don't care. I'm going to school. And he said, that's what I'm looking for, a commitment. And so if I would've known that, I would've said that the first time I went to visit.
Dave:But, anyway, went through the process. And and, going through seminary, it helped me to to flush away a lot more of that embedded theology that I had and and see God in a new light. To the point at which and and I say this in sermons all the time. The gospel should be so simple that a child should be on should be able to understand it. You know?
Dave:I there's a whole sermon that I preach called the Jesus loves me doctrine. You know? If it's outside of that, we learn this in Sunday school, but somehow we try to complicate it because it's like, you know, we we we we we're raised to believe, you know, if it's too good to be true, it often is, and yet it is too good to be true, and it is true that God did all the work. And, yeah, we wanna add some stuff to it. Well okay.
Dave:Yeah. God did all the work, but I have to accept that I have to receive it. You know? No. God says, no.
Dave:It's here. It's right here. Take it. You know? There's no receiving.
Dave:It's there. It's already I've already done the work for you. You know? And and so, anyway, seminary seminary helped me to flush a lot of this other stuff that was in and helped me to to to come to an authentic relationship with God.
T.J.:So let let's pause right here for a moment. So, Dave, if, you know, I'm a seeker and I'm I'm listening to your your faith journey and this this period of your life where you're experiencing transformation, how would you how would you describe this, concept of I had this idea about the faith and its practices, and now through life experiences, that idea, that perception is changing. How would that sound in your own words? You were talking about, well, okay, kind of flushing this and pushing this aside. But just in terms of, non theological speak, how would you describe that for someone who is inquiring and curious in seeking the faith and what it all means?
Dave:What it means is, God is always there in in the hard and in the easy, in in in the crisis and and in the good. What that means is that God we serve a God that is so big that God keeps the cosmos going. Right? And yet wants to know Dave Tucker so intimately that the Bible says that the hairs on my head are counted. God wants to know Dave Tucker so personally that the Bible says the psalmist says that that God collects our tears in a jar.
Dave:In in revelation, there's there's imagery of God wiping tears from eyes. And I used to think that, well, there'll be no more tears, no more sorrow, and that's true, But but that's also a very intimate act of a god, like a parent, wiping the tears from our eyes and saying, they're there. It's gonna be okay. What I have discovered is we don't serve a transactional god. We serve a god that just loves and wants to be in relationship with us and wants to know it wants god already knows us intimately, but god wants us to share everything that's going on in our lives.
Dave:Not that he needs to know, but that it helps us to share it with god and and know that God is just a whisper away. So I think in in in in layman terms, if we're gonna use that, it's about relationship. It's about where is God now in the circumstance you find yourself in.
T.J.:And it's so different than a transaction between Yeah. 2 entities. Yeah. Yeah. Much more life, emotion, response, and intimacy as opposed to just a transactional aspect.
T.J.:Right. Okay. I keep interrupting your train of thought as you're sort of trying to share your faith journey. So, let's pick up you, Inner Bright, Theological Seminary. My divinity school.
T.J.:Yes.
Dave:Yeah. It's it's a progressive school, and, and and I knew that they would I knew what I was getting into. You know, this school is designed to take everything that you've ever believed and bring it down to the foundation, and that's where I needed to be. I needed to be in that place where where I was brought down to the foundation. And so whatever work we did, I still found out we needed more work to do.
Dave:So, so the way the Bright Divinity School works is they tear it down and you rebuild it. And so now I know where I stand. I can argue it. I can, with with without any hesitation, share with you about this god that wants a relationship with us. I can share with you and defend that god is not a transactional god.
Dave:I can share with you and defend that we serve a loving god that wants nothing more than for us to be saved. Bible says, god is not willing that any should perish. And and so god wants us. It's in god's will that we're saved. And so that's that's where Bright Divinity School came in for me was it finished the work that God started with me, and and God was with me through the whole process.
Dave:I will share with you that I was probably halfway through seminary, and I think every seminary can tell you can attest to this, but at some point, I was halfway through seminary and I was like, I've lost God. That was I'm like, how does that happen? I'm studying God every single day. I'm studying the theology. I'm studying the history.
Dave:I'm studying all how did I lose God? And then the very next semester, I took a class called spiritual life and leadership, and and and it fit that was that missing puzzle piece that I needed in my ministry, which which I build upon in my ministry today. And that is what are some spiritual practices that we can do to experience God's presence? Meditation, very tangible things and practicing these things. And and to the point at which I just got so excited and learned everything I could that I could about that aspect of Christianity.
Dave:And, and now I teach that. And that's part of the asking of the question, where is God in this time of your life? And let's work together at finding God through spiritual practices.
T.J.:That's interesting because you you, you know, being a student, you know, the educational scholarly work, and then that piece of the experiential aspect of a relationship, with God is not necessarily something that can be taught, but maybe practices towards enhancing or beginning that relationship. Right.
Dave:Right.
T.J.:So, Dave, as as you experienced this call into the ministry of the word and sacrament, let's go let's go to your family for a minute. How did your wife and your children respond to this calling?
Dave:You know, it it was that's a that's a beautiful question, and it was a beautiful answer. I back in that 5th wheel, I was so despondent, and so lost, and so depressed. I mean, like I said, it felt like somebody just yanked the rug out from under me. As I look back, it was God fast tracking me to be where God needed me to be, you know?
T.J.:Yeah, but not in that moment.
Dave:But not in that moment, I didn't see that at all. And so I put a lot of blame on myself. Again, I was, like I said before, I was blaming myself. I never blamed God. I said, I did something wrong.
Dave:I messed up. And so there was a point in time, my wife, like, she's my amazing grace. That's her nickname, my amazing grace, because there was one day I looked at her and it was like a 180 degrees in that 5th wheel. I mean, the air conditioner wasn't keeping up with this with the Texas summer. We were sweating, and we were miserable.
Dave:I looked at her, and I said, you take the kids and and you take them and you guys go stay with family. Let's put a fork in this. Let's let's call this marriage done because I've tried everything, and I can't provide for this family anymore. That's the grief that's that's the guilt I put on myself. And and my wife, Lacresha, looks me in the eye, and she says, I'm not going anywhere.
Dave:We're gonna have to fight through this. And it was that tenacity that, that she exhibited, and so we did. And so she was very much part of this process of us discovering God in this in this tragedy. And throughout this whole thing, the kids were listening and they were hearing us and and and they were they were hearing the love of their mother toward their their father who was very broken at the time. And I remember good memories even through all the tragedy and the loss and all that that we were experiencing.
Dave:The the the 5th wheel was so small. You know? Our kids were almost on top of each other when they slept at night. You know? And I could hear them, and and the thing that kept me going was hearing them whisper, whisper, whisper, whisper, and then giggle, giggle, giggle.
Dave:All night long, they do that, whisper and giggle and laugh. And and and to this point, my son is, gonna turn 21 in December. My daughter is 25 and no. 26. Sorry.
Dave:And, they're just best buds. And and so not only did did this whole my whole family came into this Cumberland Presbyterian faith and this new experience with God together, which was nothing shy of the work of the Holy Spirit. And and not only that, we are closer and tighter as a family. I couldn't ask for better kids, You know? And and and and kids that actually want to be with each other and not fighting and bickering.
Dave:You know? Yeah. And so, I there's there's a lot of good things that came out of that. Mhmm.
T.J.:You've mentioned, Rick Owen as somebody who impacted your your journey of faith and helped you in your understanding of ministry and calling to ministry. Dave, are there other folks that you want to, mention?
Dave:Oh, man. Yes. Second to Rick, a very equally as influential in in my in my growth and understanding of God, is is Judy Madden, the care pastor there at Pathway Church. And, she helped both me and myself individually. And my wife and I, she helped let me back up.
Dave:She helped both Lucretia and I individually and together, in our healing process, and helped us in this discovery of this new understanding, in this discovery of who God is and where God is in this, dark place. You know? And so, she continues to be very influential, in our in our lives, and I get a chance to work alongside her, even now as pastor of of this church. I get to do pastoral counseling at at at Pathway as well, and so it's an honor that that church trusts me to take care of their congregation as well.
T.J.:I like asking this question of every guest, and it's actually a 2 part question. We'll start with part 1. Dave, where do you see god working in your life today? We we spent quite a bit of time, you know, in the last, around 2008, 2,009, 2010. But in terms of point of view of somebody who is seeking the faith and for those who are already disciples to be able to think and reflect and verbalize the presence of god in the moment can be challenging.
Dave:Yeah. You know, there's no I can't lie. I cannot say that 2020 has been a great year. You know, I 2020 was a year I was I had a catchphrase, you know, whenever I would post, you know, as I approached my graduation date, you know, 2020 vision, you know, and and I'm about to finish school, about to get ordained, and all this 2020 vision, hashtag 2020 vision. And all of a sudden, we we we left school for spring break in 2020 and never went back.
Dave:We finished everything online. And I'm like, oh, man. That's not good. And and and then entering into a church in the middle of a pandemic, you know, and and and navigating what that is. There are no books written on how to run a church in a pandemic.
Dave:At least nothing that was taught to me in seminary. And and yet through it all through it all, I saw God. God was there. And and it's interesting because I'm as we become aware of God's presence in our lives every day in every way, we we really start to see the hand of God. We have to look for it sometimes.
Dave:God's always there. So how I see God? I got a phone call from somebody that's looking for a church, and somebody recommended this church to them, and they're gonna be visiting this sum this Sunday. And that's where I see God's hand. It wasn't anything I did.
Dave:It was the holy spirit at work. When I'm when I'm up front preaching and I wanna just really lower the boom on some people and and and and I I get to that part in my sermon and I I can't say it. I'm looking at the words and I take a breath. I can't say it. The Holy Spirit has put the mouth put the hands over my mouth.
Dave:And then there are other times where things that I would have never said in the pulpit are coming out of my mouth. And I'm like, wait. Where did that come from? So in those ways, I see God at work in spite of me. I'm an empty shell.
Dave:I'm a willing shell. God I tell God you you've got me. I I I just wanna serve you, God. And and with that understanding of God always being there, I am seeing God work in ways that I've never seen God work in my entire life, and it's an incredible thing to see.
T.J.:Yeah. And that's well, first of all, you really got me tickled about, Dave lowering the boom on others.
Dave:I don't do that. For for those in my congregation, I never that's that's a story I made. No. I'm kidding.
T.J.:And that leads to the other part of this question of seeing God working in the world today. It's one thing to to do the self reflection and our relationship with God, but where are you seeing God active in this great vast universe that we are a part of?
Dave:God is still at work. There are many people who would say that the that the church is dying. There are some that would say the church is already dead. And yet as I look at the work that our specifically our Cumberland Presbyterian churches are doing, I see the hands and feet of Jesus in motion. I call it I call it a sermon in shoes.
Dave:We are all called to be sermons in shoes. And when I see that because church happens outside the four walls of the church building. I mean, we come here to worship God, to praise God, and then we go out and we do our lives, and that's where church really happens. That's where people's lives are changed by one person reaching one person reaching another person. That to me has been going back to losing my pulpits.
Dave:I I heard God say to me that my my ministry has changed at that point, and and the ministry is this. My ministry is to be 1 on 1 heart to heart. And so what I do in the pulpit, that's that's bringing glory to God. That's praising God. That's pointing people to God.
Dave:Where the rubber meets the road for my ministry is when I get to sit with people whose marriages are on the rocks and and get to help them process through that and and help them find God in that. Working with people who who have experienced loss. This church, we're we're doing grief share back to back to back to back, and and there's such a need, such a need, and and people are coming to this. And and that's not we're not calling that church. We're calling it a a support group.
Dave:You know? So and and to see God's people, the priesthood of believers, God's hands and feet, not just content with warming the pews, but getting out there and making a difference in other people's lives. That's where I see God working in the small ways. That's where that's how God works the best. I mean, who how many people did Jesus have following him?
Dave:How many disciples he had? He had 12 12 dudes following him around. You know, they're they're named. I know there was a lot of other people, but but those specific. Right?
Dave:And and and and that core group of 12 turn the world upside down by sharing Jesus one person at a time. That's where I see God working in the world today.
T.J.:I think today in 2021, we would say even with technology, that couldn't be done. You know? I think there would be a case or an argument of, like, no. It can't be done. Not with social media, not with technology, commercials, whatever it may be, couldn't be done.
T.J.:But it can be done, has been done.
Dave:It's being done.
T.J.:And that witness and that call has been passed on to each and every believer in the Christ. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. Alright, Dave. So I wanted to ask you this question.
T.J.:Somebody who has, you have unique perspective in terms of looking at the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination. So you were able to worship, for about 10 years and then, enhanced your calling and deepened your calling into the ministry. And now you're ordained and you're serving a church. So what ideas, what hopes, what dreams do you have for this Cumberland Presbyterian denomination, knowing what you know and the experiences of life that you've had?
Dave:I think that what I'd like to see the Cumberland Presbyterian Church continue to do is teach people how to show grace to others. The grace that was shown to me and my family as we were broken, very broken, coming into Pathway Church, It works. Let's not lose sight of that grace. Let's not lose sight of the of of the the understanding that God will bring people into our doors that need help, that need healing, that need Jesus. And through love and through grace, my challenge to the denomination is let's be ready to share that.
Dave:Let's let's be ready to share that love and not just not just share it, but exemplify it. Show it. And and I know that there are people in this world. You know? Look at the political climate right now.
Dave:We're at each other's throats. What if people could come into a church and experience Jesus and bring our differences together into one place and leave those differences as we come to the table, the sacrament of communion, where Jesus says all are welcome. The table is a unifier. Church should be a unifier. It should be an equalizer and a unifier, and it should bring us all together as sons and daughters of god.
T.J.:Well said, Dave. Well said. You know, you said something that I've never really thought about this before, but to be sharers of the grace But we we don't have the right to remove the grace or to take grace away. No. Yeah.
T.J.:Yeah. I don't even know if that makes sense. But, anyway, it's not a
Dave:thought about that. Yes. I mean
T.J.:It's not ours to take away.
Dave:I'm a strong I'm a strong believer in we're all connected. We're all part of humanity. God created us in God's image. And so because we're connected and we're all created in God's image, we can't turn anybody away. Because if we turn somebody away, then we're turning away Jesus.
Dave:And Bible's very clear on that. Jesus says, you know, I was hungry and and and you fed me. I was thirsty and you gave me to drink. I was naked and you clothed me. I was in prison and you visited me.
Dave:And what we do with each other today in this world is is literally what we're doing for Christ and to Christ. And so, yeah, if somebody comes into our life, we we cannot it's it's a directive from the throne or room of God. We cannot say, I don't love you. You can't be part of this because God does love that person no matter what.
T.J.:Well, I really appreciated your insight. I wanted to know your thoughts in coming into the Cumberland Presbyterian Church as a fresh pair of eyes, somebody who's had life experiences, difficult faith journey and periods of your life, and to find a church home and denomination that you can stretch your wings and share your gifts. Well, to discover your gifts and and to share your gifts. I'm glad you found that church home. Glad you found the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
Dave:Me too.
T.J.:And that the church has found you. And we'll leave that as a mystery. I know that was one of my early questions.
Dave:We'll just
T.J.:We'll leave that as a mystery.
Dave:There we go. The mystery of oh, god.
T.J.:I meant to ask you towards the beginning. I was hoping to bookend our conversation. But so let's spend a few moments. One the way that I got connected with you is that you also have a podcast. And so tell me about its name and who's on it, and, this is your opportunity to share your podcast.
Dave:Sure. The podcast is spiritual living in a chaotic world, and, it is designed for those who are seeking, who who maybe have been hurt by church or maybe have not had experience with church. It's it's designed to help people find God in the chaos of world of the world. And and, again, like I said, I mean, unless you have your head in the sand, this is a very chaotic world right now, you know, on many different levels. You know?
Dave:And so what we're trying to do is help people find ways to discover God through the chaos. And so, our last podcast, we had a guest, doctor Steve Sprinkle. He was the understudy for 1 Henry Nowan, wonderful theologian, and one of my favorite theologians. And so we interviewed him about Henry Nowan and and and how Henri Nouwen understood that spirituality is a bodied experience. It's mind, body, and soul experience.
Dave:And and so that was that was a neat, that was a neat podcast. It was very fun. He was actually a professor of mine at BYT Divinity School, and, so it was a lot of fun. I I cohost this show with Dusty Luthy, reverend Dusty Luthy from Denton First Carmelon Presbyterian Church, and we use the old Skype machine and, bring everybody into one place using technology. And, it's, and you you said this already.
Dave:You know? A year ago, this technology didn't exist. And so here we are. We're doing we're able to do these podcasts and bring people from all over the country and even all over the world through into one podcast. So that's that's kind of a neat thing.
T.J.:And so tell me the name again and of the podcast and where people can find it.
Dave:Yes. We are on we are on every platform. If you find one I'm not on, let me know. But the the podcast is spiritual living in a chaotic world, and we're found on Apple Podcasts and and and, Android. What is that new?
Dave:Google Podcasts and Spotify. Spotify and and all those, all those servers. So whatever your favorite one is, just favorite us and and follow us, and and, we try to do, we try to do 2 episodes a month, and so we're we're building up to that.
T.J.:Dave, how else can we follow you on your faith journey?
Dave:Sure. I can be found on on Facebook at Dave the pastor, and, you can also find, my church website, saint timothyhyphencpc.org. It's a really long and difficult URL, but I try my best to make it easy.
T.J.:Dave, thank you so much for sharing your faith journey, taking me down a path of of hardship and and some loss and struggle to being able to really experience God in in a relationship in a different way and to use your use your gifts that you've been given, to all of our benefit. Appreciate it.
Dave:Well, thank you for inviting me to be part of this.
T.J.:And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with us on our next journey down Cumberland Road.
