Perryn Rice - Adapting & Adjusting As The Spirit Moves
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of god, this is the Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. Today, the reverend doctor Perryn Rice joins me on Cumberland Road. Perrin is the senior pastor of the Lake Highlands Presbyterian Church in Dallas, Texas. His wife is Terry, and his son is Jonathan, and he is currently at Tulsa University.
T. J.:And they have a daughter, Lauren, who's just started high school. Perryn is a member of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, Cumberland Presbyterian Church in America, and a member of the Presbyterian Church USA. Now something you may not know about Perryn is that as of this past November, he is a black belt in Taekwondo. He's a former stand up comedian, an r and b singer, but former does not mean that it's not still in the heart.
Perryn:Yeah.
T. J.:He's the author of one book called 66 devotions from 66 great books, and he's currently got some other book projects going. And schooling includes graduate from Bethel College, now Bethel University, Bright Divinity School, and Austin Theological Seminary where he got his doctorate of ministry. Perryn, thank you for joining me today on Cumberland Road.
Perryn:Hey, TJ. Thank you for having me. Been looking forward to this.
T. J.:Yeah, me too. Me too. For those who are listening, it took a little while for us to be able to get our schedules to match and here we are in early twenty twenty one. Perrin, you have an extensive background with the Cumberland Presbyterian Church and family that comes with that and your roots are deep. So, I wanna begin there and even beforehand and can you recall and do you mind sharing your earliest encounter with god?
Perryn:Absolutely. Tell you, it's funny. When you talk to my parents, they argue over how Cumberland am I. One will say, I'm a fifth generation Cumberland Presbyterian. The other one will say, well, no.
Perryn:He's gotta be a sixth generation. If you count my family and and all that kind of stuff. But
T. J.:They're You
Perryn:know, but it it's it's it's it's
T. J.:So your mom and pop are telling you what generation you are.
Perryn:Yeah. Yeah. And and then on top of that, you throw in their grandchildren, my kids. It it becomes, heated discussion over there. Now mind you, my parents have a lot of heated discussions these days.
Perryn:They're both old and cranky. So but no, let me answer your question. First personal experience that I can recall yeah, this is happening with the Lord. I was about five years old. Yeah, about five years old.
Perryn:My father was pastoring at that time the St. James Second Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Cleveland, Tennessee, and we were having a revival. Now I only remember two people coming to do revivals when we were in Cleveland. One was Mary Bailey, the late Reverend Mary Bailey, and the other one was Roosevelt Ball. And this go around, it was Roosevelt Ball who came to do the revival and he was preaching about the relationship between Naaman and Elisha and I can't recall everything that he said, but he when he got to the part of his sermon where he actually took Naaman to the Jordan and dipped him in the Jordan.
Perryn:When he got to that last dip something came over me, I cried profusely and nobody could really comfort me. I know that I wasn't sad and I wasn't angry. I was not upset but I really couldn't I couldn't explain what had happened and what was happening. I couldn't tell anybody. Couldn't talk to my parents about it because it didn't make sense to me and surely at that age I was not going to make sense to them, although I was wrong about that.
Perryn:When I finally did have this conversation with them they knew exactly what had happened and by that time I knew as well. So that was the Holy Spirit working on me. My grandfather, the late Frank Lee Hudson, and Pop as well, oftentimes will tell people that the Lord has had God's hand has been on me for a long time since birth or if you want to be biblical while I was in the womb God tells Jeremiah and as they have told me. You know, those old preachers always go back to a Bible verse, they preach it like, you know, a thirty second sermon while they're trying to give you some advice, You know?
T. J.:Now you have to be careful. We're becoming those old preachers.
Perryn:I know. I know. I know. I I catch myself. You know?
Perryn:But but yeah. So they they told me, well, why you why you were in the womb before you knew you who you were before you were formed the lord had his hands on you so so but but I have come to to to know that that was true TJ So for me that first encounter with the Lord even though I did not understand it I did I couldn't explain it at the time years later it proved to me that the Lord has always been with me and that has been an incredible comfort for me all of these years that my earliest some of my earliest church memories I'm sorry, some of my earliest memories are the church. And then some among my earliest church memories is this one. And it was another one I played Rudolph in a Christmas play but that that didn't have any bearing on my life.
T. J.:It was part of the journey but not a faith journey.
Perryn:You know, yeah, you're you're a preacher's kid. They just put you in all kinds of stuff. Got some lipstick colored my nose red and sent me out there in front of all the other reindeer. You could traumatic now I think about it, but I don't think it had much of a bearing.
T. J.:Well, the positive is you you were able to be the lead reindeer, I guess.
Perryn:Yeah. We could go with that. Okay. That's prophetic too, That's right.
T. J.:You were carrying the light.
Perryn:So those are early early memories of the Lord and I and our relationship on my end being aware of it. I've always believed that the Lord has relationships with us well beyond our memory and our understanding even. So when we are whenever we talk about our relationship with the Lord we're really to a degree talking about it from our angle. I met the lord. Yeah, you met the lord but the lord knew you before you met the lord.
Perryn:You know, that type of a situation.
T. J.:Well, and sometimes that self reflection.
Perryn:Mhmm.
T. J.:Looking back is like, ah, those moments. I didn't know it. Yeah. Or realize it or could articulate it then. But looking back, I'm like, oh, that's what all this was about.
T. J.:That's how things came together. It couldn't couldn't name it then. Couldn't even speak it. Yeah.
Perryn:No. No. Not then, but but here but here we are.
T. J.:You've mentioned your mom and dad. Are there others who've had a great impact on on your journey of faith?
Perryn:Well, TJ, how long is this podcast? I mean, man, how much time do we have? Do we have to have dinner? Mean, come on. There have been many.
Perryn:I mentioned Reverend Bailey. I did not know that there were people in the world who did not believe that women could preach and pastor. For years I didn't know that because of Reverend Bailey. Now back then we called her Reverend's sister Mary Bailey but I had no idea and she would come and she would preach and I would watch the church respond to her. On one occasion she came and preached a revival that lasted a week and the church asked for her to stay another week and she called her husband and said, I won't be back.
Perryn:I gotta do another one. And we had a two week revival, you know. So she was influential in my life. I mentioned Roosevelt Ball. Roosevelt Ball is still influential in my life.
Perryn:He looks at me as a son. Roosevelt Ball and Robert Earl Thomas, the late Reverend Robert Earl Thomas, taught me that you can be a preacher and still have fun. You can be a preacher and laugh and joke and play because my father didn't become fun until he became a grandfather and when that happened, we still don't know who this dude is. I told him several times and said, my real daddy's coming home one day and when he does, you got to go because I don't know who you are. All this money you've given away to people who are shorter than you are I don't know who you are so but yeah Roosevelt Ball Robert L Thomas very influential the founder of this church the Lake Highlands Presbyterian Church late Reverend Robert E.
Perryn:Shelton was a mentor, extraordinaire for me. I tell people a lot of people think that my father gave me a lot of my pastoral care lessons. No, it was Robert Earl. It was Robert Shelton, Robert E Shelton who did that. I learned a lot from this man and continue to learn a lot from him and until the day the lord called him home.
Perryn:Very influential in my life. Let's see, India Scruggs, she's a mama in the ministry to me. Love her to death. And then of course a dear friend of both of ours Stan Wood. Stan, a lot of people don't know this but Santa is actually my godfather.
Perryn:Oh yeah. And he he tells people a lot of times because he baptized me. He tells people all the time that I laid my hands on him and that kind of stuff. Like Stan, I wouldn't. I don't remember that.
Perryn:Don't know but Stan and my father were and still are very close very good friends from and you all know the story pop integrates Bethel in '61 and then Stan comes to Bethel in '63 and of course from Bethel they both go to Memphis Theological Seminary, and then of course Stan goes on to be just a blessing to the Cumberland Presbyterian churches 10 times over. Very influential people. Now these are the mean all these folks I mentioned are ministers. Helen Nichols, the late Elder Helen Nichols, was a huge blessing in my life and to my family as well. And then although he's a minister to Frank Ward, Frank and Linda Ward.
Perryn:Mhmm. My camp years. I cannot explain and can't thank them enough. Especially Mama Linda. Mama Linda used to be on us.
Perryn:You know, me and and and their son, Michael, we all preachers kids and we we're true preachers kids. We're the ones that you hear the stories about. And mama Linda would come and take us out of chapel at CPYC. That's how rough some beans were. Come on now.
Perryn:Come here. Come here. So but yeah yeah these these individuals and and so many more. I mean, so many more. These are all Cumberland Presbyterians that I have mentioned but there are many other individuals that have been blessings in my life and have helped to guide where I am right now and I did mention my parents but I think that's without needing to say.
T. J.:Sure. Yeah. So earlier, was joking, half joking about stand up comedian, R and B singer, which is not a joke. It's true. But thinking about that time
Perryn:Maybe it is a joke. Thinking about supposed to be a joke, but maybe it had Oh, go ahead, T. D. I'm sure.
T. J.:Thinking about about that time, your faith journey obviously has changed, made turns, traverse in various areas and ways. How has your faith journey, and how has your faith been strengthened and grown over the years? You're obviously not the same person you were when you were in your twenties.
Perryn:No. No. No. I
T. J.:You're only in your thirties now.
Perryn:Well, g g, we never said you were a wiz in math. We never said you got the same problem my wife has. She thinks she's still 29. She keeps telling people, I'm like, your driver's license says something else, baby. It does.
Perryn:No no no no let me tell you preaching pastoring was not my goal.
T. J.:I
Perryn:wanted to actually I wanted to take our city halls places that's why I got into stand up because I wanted to be a late night talk show host. That was it. And I left stand up to sing with some friends, but my goal there was still Arsenio's job. I figured this is what I'll do. I'll be in some make it big.
Perryn:I'll be in some videos. I'll do some funny stuff in some videos that'll put me on a sitcom, which will put me in a movie, which will get me to Arsenio's chair. I mean was a goal. -Yeah. Like, I always have those, but yeah that was the thought process.
Perryn:But the reason behind that was I saw how hard pastoring was. It hit me in a rough way. Long story made short, there was a woman in the church who was out to destroy my father and her goal was to do so through me and she had hatched a plan that included me getting caught in a very dangerous spot, and it would bring shame on my family. And I said, If you got people like that in the church, I'm gonna have no part of that. If you got to pastor folks like that, you got to still act like you love them.
Perryn:When they get sick, you got to go see them in the hospital and they treat you this way? Uh-uh. I don't want to have any part of that. I'll figure something else out. You know.
Perryn:I figured that comedy and R and B singing would be a great way for me to not do this. I was convinced that you couldn't find God in those places and I was wrong. God was at every show. Every single show. There was one night I was trying to do stand up and this was the joke.
Perryn:The joke was about Fat Albert and the Cosby Kids cartoon and how kids in the hood always cuss. They always cuss. So I had written out my jokes filled with cuss words. It was going to be the bluest material I had ever done And got on stage to do those jokes. And none of those words literally none of those words could come out of my mouth.
Perryn:And I'm fighting. I'm fighting. I'm my brother's got the video somewhere. I'm fighting trying to push those words out and they won't come out. So, I'm like, yeah, god was there every night.
Perryn:Every single night, you know, god never missed a show. Drunken hecklers, one night I thought I was gonna have to fight and God was there. You know so here's the thing though, whereas I was trying not to do what I'm doing it was always God's plan and as Romans teaches us, all things work together for the good of those who love the lord and called according to god took all the crazy stuff that I had to deal with trying to be a stand up comedian, trying to be R and B singer, singing in nightclubs. God took all of that crazy stuff and made it a part of who I am so that I could preach the gospel so that I could pastor. I was preaching some place and a baby just kept crying, Wouldn't stop crying.
Perryn:And and unfortunately for the the the mother in this church there was no place for her to go. Either she had to leave the the the church because there was no narthex. There was no no foyer, nothing like that. You open the front door to the building and you're in the sanctuary. There's no place for her to go.
Perryn:Baby cried. The whole service cried all the way through my sermon. And and she came up to me and she apologized profusely and I told her, no, don't worry about it. You know, the line that we oftentimes give which is always it's a sign of life in the church. That's what we, that's what it is.
Perryn:It's life in the church. Somebody else came up to me and said, how'd you do that? I said, you don't understand. If you can do a ten minute set with a drunken heckler who doesn't stop talking. No matter what you're doing, this drunk person keeps saying something.
Perryn:If you can handle that, you can handle a baby. I said, babies are easy. It's the person that if a baby were to stand up and try to walk around in the pulpit with me there'd be an issue but babies don't do that typically you know so all of that stuff and then crowds and I say this not to be boastful, but just to be honest, it's rare if I'm afraid of a group of people when it comes time to preach. It's rare. And usually if I'm afraid of a group of people it's because of what I know I'm getting ready to say.
Perryn:It's not about the size you know and I'm comfortable. I've had I preached in front of large crowds before, I've preached in front of small crowds before, I'm comfortable with all of them. That stuff is what I had to deal with with comedy and with nightclub singing crowds because sometimes we were a part of a benefit and you're singing in front of who knows how many folks. Steve Harvey back when I was doing stand up Steve Harvey had a comedy club here in Dallas called the Comedy House, which would seat close to 400 people. And the first time that I performed there was on an open mic night, amateur night, Deaf Comedy Jam was actually auditioning people.
Perryn:And I didn't know that's what was going on. And the place was packed. And I had a really good set. Matter of fact, every time that I performed there, things went really well. Some other places they didn't, but there things went really well.
Perryn:But it was always packed. And comedy is a different kind of animal. I mean, it's really just you against the world. That's it. If you tell a bad joke you got to figure out how to get them back.
Perryn:And if you tell a great joke you got to figure out either if you're going to leave on that joke or if you're going to run the risk of trying to ride that wave. You're all by yourself there's no coach out there there's no help out there you know it's you and people and hopefully laughter and it's really scary when it's a bunch of folks because the worst thing is to have 400 people just looking at you and you're trying to make them laugh you know so so the lord took all of that stuff and used it to help me to become comfortable because my prayer when I when I finally got past all the the crazy things that I thought the church would do to me Based upon that one incident when I was when I was a teenager that this lady was trying to do against our family. When I finally got past that and and I told the lord that I I would I would I would serve. I prayed that the lord would allow me. I said, if if you want me to preach, then this is what I want.
Perryn:I want to be able to preach the way that you would have me to preach and anywhere you want me to go. I said there's no limits here wherever you want me to go. And sometimes I wonder if that was smart if it was a smart prayer because I've been to some places. But nevertheless, I'm not uncomfortable. And I think a lot of that is due to the fact, one, that the Lord never left me.
Perryn:All those crazy stand up shows and nightclub singing, the Lord was there at the club. The Lord was there and you know when I was all that stuff. The Lord took all of that and and made it a part of who I am. Which has enabled me to be comfortable. Wherever I am.
Perryn:And and and then and then then TJ this is and this is pop. Pop taught me how to trust what the Lord gives, how to trust it. If it comes from the Lord then there's a purpose for it and don't act like you know more than God does, you know, which is one of the things that I tell a lot of the students that I work with with the POS program. I said preaching is God's business. You're never going to know more about preaching than the Lord knows.
Perryn:So what you have to be able to do is just to be willing to share what God has and that's what the Lord wants is for you to be willing to share what God gives you and then to be astute enough to adapt and adjust as the spirit moves.
T. J.:So,
Perryn:you can't get stuck with the one hymn before a sermon and one hymn after a sermon and this is how this goes. You can't get stuck there because the Lord may have you go call to worship, sermon! It's time to preach right now. Well, Lord, we got to do announcements first. Got No, that's not what the Lord said.
Perryn:You got to be able to adjust. And there's a minister in Dallas named Doctor. Freddy Haynes who says this a lot of times and some and I've quoted him with this as well that while you're preaching sometimes God gives you something hot off the press and you've got to be able to recognize that oh I need to say this now right now instead of saying maybe later or not at all or there's already spiritual warfare when it comes to preaching. You don't need to be in a fight with the spirit. You need to be obedient, you know.
Perryn:And so pop says you got to trust. You got to trust what God gives you that is right and go with that. And that's what I try my best to do and these other experiences have allowed me to become comfortable in whatever setting I'm in. So far I've not preached on the moon yet So I'm not so certain that that one's coming. But So you But but nevertheless.
T. J.:So you have mentioned, you know, that God has never left you alone. What is it about the Christian faith that keeps you coming back, that keeps you identifying with god?
Perryn:This is gonna be an a very interesting answer. Now, I'll try to explain it. There is no better option. There just isn't. Now, don't get me wrong.
Perryn:I've not been out there, you know, trying different things but when I think about different things, I'm like, I can't do that. I would never survive with that. I can't handle that. This is where I'm supposed to be. Okay, so here are some of the things that hold me.
Perryn:The biggest is my calling. If I am not certain of anything else about parent rights, I am certain that I've been called to do what I'm doing. I am a preacher and I am a pastor. At some point in my life, if the lord sees fit, I will retire from pastoring but I'll never stop preaching. Right now, my father is is legally blind.
Perryn:He's basically homebound. He doesn't mind having visitors, you know, and and and he still preaches. Still preaches. He'll call me and he'll say, hey, you remember that part in the Bible where it says, and and he's off. He's gone.
Perryn:He's doing it. You know, or he wants to talk about a passage and he can't quite remember it the way that it goes. So he'll call me and he'll give me bits and pieces and he'll say call me back when you have it. I go find it, I call him back, I read it to him, he's gone. Never stops preaching.
Perryn:And and I have known probably hundreds of old preachers. They're all the same. My mother tells a great story about a dear friend of my grandfather's up in Detroit, Michigan who was a retired pastor who would and up in Detroit my grandfather lived in a subsidized brownstone. So, he lived on the top part, somebody another family lived on the bottom. So, whenever we would go visit granddaddy, we always had to climb stairs to get to his house.
Perryn:So, mama tells a story about this old preacher who had retired, maybe had been forced into retirement, and would come to see my grandfather at least once a week, but never would ring the buzzer or none of that kind of stuff. Somehow or another the door was always open and he would stand at the bottom of the stairs and he would just holler like he was preaching. Just holler, throw out a great big old hoop or something, just holler. And my grandfather knew who it was, and he would send my mama to open the door and let him up. Now my grandfather loved preaching too, and he died when I was 12 years old.
Perryn:And I think about him often because he would have loved the fact that I was preaching. The fact that my brother's also a preacher, he would have loved it. He loved my father and he loved to hear pop preach. My grandfather ran that church up in Detroit. St.
Perryn:Paul Cumberland, Frank Lee Hudson was serious. He was a founding member up there. He was serious about that church. And whenever we went to visit him in Detroit my pop always preached and it's probably because granddaddy said so. He would, my son's gonna preach today.
Perryn:He would tell the pastor, my son's gonna preach today.
T. J.:Well, let's shift gears for a minute and I wanna ask you, you know, we're early in the new year and we're in a new decade.
Perryn:Mhmm.
T. J.:And where do you see god working in the world right now, Perrin?
Perryn:I think missions is huge. It very well may overtake much of what we do because we are now our younger generations the world has become much smaller for them thanks to the internet specifically. Well, my kids, I'm sure your kids as well, my kids have friends all over the world, places that they've never been, places that they may never go, they're learning stuff which is I think it's pretty cool but because of this because of the fact that we that we actually have access to so much we're also seeing a lot. We're seeing a lot of poverty, a lot of destitution, we're seeing a lot of heartbreak, we're seeing a lot of this and we live let me put it this way. The church has been equipped to do much more than what we do.
Perryn:We've been empowered to be more than we portray, more than we display. We're not just a three hymn, one sermon, collect an offering group of folk. We need that. We need worship. We need corporate worship because corporate worship fuels us.
Perryn:We give it to the Lord and the Lord places in us what we need to move forward, which includes direction. But missions is going to really play it's going to define who we are. Now, the danger of this, TJ, is just the simple nature of humanity. We compete against each other and we create games that we don't need to have. So, the church down the street has a soup kitchen and your church does not have a kitchen at all, but you can't afford to let them have the soup kitchen, you go get a hot plate and some extension cords and you say, we got a soup kitchen too.
Perryn:You know, that kind of foolishness. The church, the the modern church has succumbed to this and it's a very dangerous. This is when when the scripture talks about the enemy coming to steal and to destroy, to devour, that the enemy is clever and crafty, these are the tools used that get us distracted so that our intention is never what it should be. Our intention is self serving rather than being selfless. So when we come to the conclusion of how important missions is going to be to the church, we need to be careful to not be tempted to fall into that type of a snare.
Perryn:And many of us are going to fall into that because it is unfortunately a part of our nature to do so. So, but yeah, I I I think missions is going to play a very significant role in in what we do. We'll we'll see it in involved in worship. We'll see it as a component in Christian Ed. We'll see it in many different ways, some unimaginable right now.
Perryn:And the reason for that is because just as a society or as the world in general, we really do like having people in a lower class. We're doing as all that we can to make sure that we keep that and for that reason there is going to be the need for the church to step in. Now the church needs to get out of that and we're perpetrators of this as well. We have a class system within the church which is destructive and divisive, but it is there. And I'm speaking of the church universal, of course.
Perryn:It is there, and it's dangerous. So we need to get out of that, but society is going to have a dickens of a time getting out of because and that's the biggest ism that we have. I know everybody wants to say, no, it's racism, it's sexism, no, it's terrorism, no, it's it's homophobia, it's this that. No, it's classism. That's the one because classism transcends everything.
Perryn:You can be a rich gay person who hates a poor gay person or a poor gay person who hates a rich gay person. That's what classism does. So as we're fighting against classism, we're going to see it in many different areas and the way that the church will be able to minister is going to be through missions. I believe. I believe.
T. J.:Yeah. And you know, thought of a phrase I hadn't thought of before. We'll have to dig into this in another setting But the sin of competition because that competitive nature that you mentioned beforehand actually is kind of a foundation for that classism. Sin? Sin of competition where everybody loses.
Perryn:Yeah, it's a beautiful thing when you can see two football teams at the end of the game sincerely congratulate each other. Somebody has just lost the game, somebody has won, but they're still fans of each other, they're friends with each other. That's a special moment to be able to witness. The challenge is, of course, the reason why I think that it's easy is because all of them are making millions of dollars. So, or lose, I still get a paycheck.
Perryn:Yeah. Now, for you and me as fans, it's an entirely different situation. We we wrapped our whole life up into this competitive thing and it's it is dangerous it's dangerous because in where we are today it's not about defeating it's about destroying
T. J.:in
Perryn:our political system. I remember hearing stories of Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill having lunch together. You would never see that happen with our current political structure because it's the the competition is so intense. So toxic. It's about crushing someone.
Perryn:So it's
T. J.:more than just winning. It's about true destruction of.
Perryn:No. No. It's it's the it's the simple fact that I need to make sure that you don't come back next week. You know, it's it's that type of it's that type of a thing.
T. J.:That's injury. Injury, harm.
Perryn:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it it's it's it's taking you out and and it is horrible when the church plays a role in this. You know.
T. J.:So, let's expand upon that. So, you see god working through missions in the world today and the complexities that come with that. So, Perrin, what what aspirations do you have for the church in this new year and in this new decade? And you could that can be the local church. That can be your many presbyteries and
Perryn:many your many Yeah. Your
T. J.:the the three denominations that you currently serve with. But what are your aspirations for the church?
Perryn:One of the challenges that the church has and one of the reasons why this competition thing is the way that it can be is that there's not as much unity as we want to pretend that there is with the church. One of my favorite movies as a kid that I can only remember so much from was old George Burns movie called Oh God. George Burns and John Denver and in the midst of one of their dialogues John Denver asked George Burns plays God and John Denver asked this, well he says, why do we have this kind of church and that kind of church and this kind of thing and that and god's response is, I don't get involved with denominations. Of course, the language then was masculine, patriarchal, and he says, that's man made stuff. Well, yeah.
Perryn:Yeah. The church is splintered and I don't think that was the intention when the church was created. That we would have such deep disagreements, entrenched disagreements that we would splinter off and become this, that, and the other. We tried. We have tried with the Cullen Presbyterian churches to bring about unification and it's it's been difficult.
Perryn:It's been a challenging effort. And we've had I don't I don't know what the final tally is at this particular point. But it it's it's looking bleak. That is going to take place. But here's the issue.
Perryn:A house divided can't stand. How do wolves get sheep? How do foxes get chickens? They run-in the middle and they scatter the flock so that at some point or another a sheep is going to be isolated, the chicken's going to be by know by itself somewhere and that's the one that you go get. I don't think we paid enough attention to who we are as followers of Christ to see that we got foxes running through here, we got wolves running through here and it's got us splintered, got us somewhat scattered and many of us are growing weak and we are dying off and it's hurting the church as a whole in my opinion.
Perryn:So what I would hope for is unity. Let's find some common ground and begin to work with that. That's the first thing I would hope for. Then for the church to become truly a beacon of light and not a judgment chamber. We've kind of sort of, I think, lost our way there.
Perryn:We send a whole bunch of people to hell. We have decided who is not going to get in. I Yeah, really don't think really don't think that was our responsibility. From what I've been able to read, I don't think that's supposed to be our call, but that's exactly what we've done and that too is dangerous. I think whenever we try to take away god's responsibilities or what god does whenever we try to take that on ourselves, we fail.
Perryn:Harshly. We feel it's it's kind of like it's it's a lesson that's in there. You know, that god will allow us to fail and fall so harshly, so hardly that we can't help but to get the message. You know we shouldn't have been doing this in the first place. Yeah you're right you shouldn't have been doing this in the first place you know.
Perryn:So first of all, we need to find a way to come together. Second of all, we need to begin to affirm each other more. Now, I'm not saying that we don't call each other, you know, out on when we do wrong. I'm not saying that. But we don't do it from the standpoint of judging someone or and what I mean by judging is is deciding their eternal resting place.
Perryn:You know, if you see me walk into a department store and I stuff three shirts in my shirt and walk out and don't get caught TJ I would expect you to come say parent what are you doing? What are you doing? You can't do that that's wrong you need to take those shirts back or pay for them or something you shouldn't so I'm not saying that we don't call each other out on stuff that we do along that line. But what you could have done, TJ, you see you know who I am. You see me with three shirts in my shirt that I've just taken from a department store.
Perryn:You could have run and grabbed a police officer and say, Hey, that guy has stolen and he needs to be locked up. You know, those people who do that kind of thing, they all need to be thrown in jail and no possibility of parole and when in love, you could have handled the situation.
T. J.:Accountability between you and me.
Perryn:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and and we need to be able to extend that.
Perryn:Okay? So, unity and then stop with the judging. Now this is what works in both of those. If we do this the way that I believe and hope that the Lord would have us to do it, the whole concern that we're involved in right now with social justice goes away. It goes away because we cannot help but to see each other as valuable as worthy.
Perryn:You can't help but to do that. I don't want to be united with somebody that that I don't care for. Well, if I want to be united, then I got to care for you or I should care for you. My ability to my desire to not judge you is out of love. It's out of love.
Perryn:So the whole area of social justice and this is the kicker, you know, because of class and classism extends, it really does extend beyond economic territorial lines, extends beyond that, but because of class we're quick to be able to to limit each other or limit a group or limit anyone and and that that we run into a problem that's there in that regard. Now, the problem is here. It is here. We do have racism. We do have sexism.
Perryn:We do have homophobia. We do have xenophobia. We've got all of these things that are really hurting us at this moment. And what I mean by at this moment in some cases it's been hundreds of years. This moment has been a very long time.
Perryn:And the church has done very little because the church I'm sorry, because some of us within the church and then some churches have found it to be more beneficial to them to be splintered. Lions don't often go after the larger wildebeest. The larger wildebeest oftentimes are safe and unfortunately they don't often look after the weaker wildebeest or the smaller wildebeest. But what the larger wildebeest doesn't understand is that after all the smaller ones are gone, who do you think the lion's coming after now? Who's the lion coming after next?
Perryn:This is one of the reasons why I think that when Jesus speaks of the least of these: When did we see you in prison, Lord? When did we I think this is what Jesus is to a degree what Jesus is talking about. It's the relationship that we have with each other and how we see the value and worth in each other. And there's a struggle. There's a struggle that's there.
Perryn:Okay. I hope I made sense. I know I jumped from spot to spot to spot.
T. J.:Well, yeah, I asked you
Perryn:With all of that. But about it is multifaceted, it is. It's not as simple as I have tried to explain it in the opening. There's a lot of layers to this that the church is responsible for. But I do believe that if we begin to function missionally, we have to see the value in each other.
Perryn:We gotta see the work in each other. We gotta be able to to to love and trust that others see the value in us.
T. J.:Perrin, I appreciate your your deep thoughts and your sharing, your faith journey. Where can we continue to follow you?
Perryn:Well, right now, a lot of stuff that we're doing at Lake Highlands Presbyterian Church. We're streaming Sundays at ten, but we have a YouTube channel where you can catch a lot of things that we're doing. We actually have a a third worship experience that's called hilarity, which is an offering to God through humor. And it's me and a few folks here that I find very, very funny. One of which you know very well, the Reverend Leanne Kerner.
Perryn:And many of you all may know Leanne. We're having a good time. So all of that can be found on our YouTube channel. And then of course it can also be found on our website. And then I'm on social media.
Perryn:I'm on Facebook. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Twitter. And be careful because I will share my stuff. You know, I've told a lot of people because you know a lot of people want to follow when you're a pastor they want to follow you in this kind of thing.
Perryn:I'm like are you sure? Because you're going to get a lot of things when you follow me. You're get a lot of comic book stuff. You're going get a lot of Dallas Cowboys stuff. You're to get a lot of why parenting is rough stuff.
Perryn:You're hear me asking for $5?
T. J.:Alright. So for those who are listening, you've been warned. It's the sharp tongue of a comedian and the physicality of a newly black belted parent in Taekwondo. Yeah.
Perryn:Yeah. That's been fun.
T. J.:I appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing your journey with me. And Absolutely, GJ. And for everybody who listens. And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on our next journey down Cumberland Road.
