Steve Delashmit - Leaning Into Faith And Proclaiming Truth With Grace
You're listening to the Cumberland Road, and I'm your host, TJ Milinoski. The following is a faith journey with Reverend Steve Delash mint, the minister at the New Hope Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Lebanon, Tennessee. With over 44 years in ministry, Steve shares how life experiences constantly informs his faith and his pastoral care. Steve is rigorous in his pastoral care. As he spoke with me from his office, we paused our conversation a couple of times so he could devote his attention to unexpected needs in the community.
T.J.:If the conversation sounds choppy at times, it is due to my lack of editing skills and not Steve's ability to share. And so now, dear friend, here is the faith journey of Steve Delashment.
T.J.:Steve, you had a recent health scare within the last year. You've actually had quite a bit of change in in your life in the past 12 months. What was that? What happened?
Steve:Memorial Day weekend in, 2022, I had the first health crisis in my life. You know, prior to this, I had always never really given a whole lot of thought to my health because my health had always been good. I'd always been blessed with good health, and I had no reason to think or even consider that, you know, it would change.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:However, within a week, I went from feeling great to barely being able to get out of the bed. I thought, what's happening to me? You know, this happens to others, but this doesn't happen to me. I'm healthy or at least I thought I was. Yeah.
Steve:Because I've always had regular checkups, and I've always, every time, been given a good report. And within a week, I was put in the hospital, and I stayed there. And while I was there, they discovered that I had a field, which I never knew I had a field in my life, which led to a heart catheterization. And my cardiologist that I met there in the hospital said, well, Steve, don't worry about it. Said it will be a few stents maybe, but you're certainly not a candidate for open heart surgery.
Steve:And I had the catheterization, and he come out and he said, well, I've got some good news, and I've got some not so good news. Which would you like to hear first? I said, well, give me the give me the not so good first.
T.J.:Okay.
Steve:And he said, the not so good news is is that stents won't work for you, but open heart surgery will. And we can fix this for you through open heart surgery and give you the quality of life that you need. You know? And I said, okay. And next thing I know, I have just put my house on the market.
Steve:I have announced my last Sunday to the Bowling Green Church where I've served for 20 years. They've set the date for my 20 year celebration. My house sales, a moving date set. And I said, doc, you'll have to wait till I get all that done. And I asked him, was it life threatening?
Steve:And he said, no. But as long as I would go home and not lift anything over £5.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:And I laughed at him. But I did all those things. I closed on my house. I moved. I had my last Sunday on July 14th.
Steve:I had my celebration there on 13th July, and I had my open heart surgery on that Monday morning.
T.J.:Wow.
Steve:I did great, TJ, and I went home within three and a half days. The first two months, I did great. And then I moved to New Hope Common Presbyterian Church, where I'm currently preaching and serving. And something happened in September. I I don't know what it was, but I go to my doctor and he says he wanted to do a series of tests on me.
Steve:And so he did, and I'm on my way home. And I get a call from his nurse and says, you need to go to the emergency room. They are there with a wheelchair waiting on you. You are in acute heart failure.
T.J.:While you're driving?
Steve:While I'm driving. And then we're in a traffic jam. Okay. And so, I got there, and that began a series of not just one stay in the hospital, but 5 stay 5 visits in the hospital. And each time, my cardiologist kept saying, we're gonna get you better.
Steve:You're going to get better. Well, Thanksgiving came, and like always, all my children came home, TJ, but, I mean, all I could do was lay on the couch. I could not get up and do anything. And then after Thanksgiving was my 5th stay in the hospital. And the day before my birthday, on December 5th, I got out of the hospital.
Steve:And for some reason, they discovered not only was my heart head issues, but my thyroid was way out of way. And so they put me on thyroid medicine. And, I mean, immediately immediately, I got it was like I was miraculously healed. And and and ever since then, I have I have felt like I felt before I ever had this issue or problem. Wow.
Steve:And, you know, but during this crisis, you know, I thought about it a lot in reflection, TJ, is that, you know, I've prayed so many times for other people's health and recovery and healing. And, you know, I always thought my faith was strong, and and yet then I realized for the first time in my life, you know, my health was questionable, and I thought I was gonna die. And, you know, it caused me to lean into my faith in a way that I had never leaned into my faith before. And I firmly believe I am alive, healthy, well, and serving God today because of all the prayers of the churches that I've served, because of all the common Presbyterian people who reached out to me across our denomination, and because of the care that I was given to me by my physicians.
T.J.:During those hospital stays and you were facing death, how did that change your view on the relationships with your wife, your children? You have grandchildren?
Steve:Oh, yes.
T.J.:Your grandchildren and and the New Hope Church that you were serving. You had time. I would go crazy. You had time to lay there, rest, recover. What did you discover?
T.J.:What did you learn in those moments of reflection?
Steve:When it comes to my relationship with the New Hope Cumberland Presbyterian Church, I could not, at that moment in my life, have been in a better place.
T.J.:Even though you had just gotten there?
Steve:Yeah. Even though I had just gotten there. You know, because I was not physically, emotionally, spiritually, or mentally able to do much of anything. Mhmm. And over and over and over again, so many of these people brought food, supported me through prayer, visited me in the hospital, and reaffirmed every time that my health was all that mattered, that the New Hope, Kellogg Presbyterian Church, will be just fine, and they would wait as long as it took for my health to get better and for me to recover.
Steve:And they were fortunate at that time because Aaron Ferry Ferrant was serving here at that time, and he was preaching for them on a regular basis. So it wasn't like they were in a crisis. You know, and then when it comes to my wife, you know, I've always been the tear caretaker. I've always been the one taking care of other people. And when it came to my wife and my children, you know, I could no longer care for them in a way that I had all my life.
Steve:You know, I'm a I've always been a doer. Mhmm. And I laid in that bed, and and they literally had to do everything, I mean, everything for me. I I I just did not have the strength to, do anything. And my children my children yes.
T.J.:Steve, how hard was that, for somebody who's a doer, self sufficient, self reliant? How hard is it to rely on other people to do things for you that typically you would have done for yourself?
Steve:Harder than you can imagine because, you know, as some have accused me of being, I'm a control freak, which I've never considered myself to be that. I've always considered myself to be a person who I come from a large family. And from the time I was a little boy, I was always taking care of the siblings that were underneath me. I came from a family originally of 8 that grew to 14. Woah.
Steve:And so when you you know? So, therefore, as a child, I never did not have a time in my life that I was not caring for somebody.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:I entered the ministry, and that care just continued. It just took a different form.
T.J.:Yeah.
Steve:And, you know, one of the things that was difficult for me is I'm good at giving. I'm not so good at receiving. And
T.J.:Yeah.
Steve:But there's one thing about it. When you're flat on your back and you're helpless and you're doing everything you can do to draw your next breath, you learn how totally dependent you are, not upon god, only but how totally dependent you are upon those who love you the most. And I think that was my family in the New Hope Common Presbyterian Church. And if I don't watch it, TJ, I'll be crying here.
T.J.:That's alright. I spoke over you. You were telling me about your relationship with your children and, during this time of healing and recovery. How did that impact your relationship with your adult children?
Steve:There's one thing, that is without question. I've always had a wonderful relationship with my 3 children. And, you know, I often wonder in when the time came, I thought it would be much later in my life. What how would my children respond, and what would my children do if I couldn't do for myself? My daughter, Otis, lives in Minnesota.
Steve:She flew here at least 6 or 7 times and stayed at minimum 2 weeks each time. My other daughter came and stayed. I mean, they tag team. And my other daughter came. And and and my son came as often as he could.
Steve:And, you know, this time in my life gave me the opportunity, you know, how you've always told your kids how much you love them. But this recent health crisis gave us all the opportunity to tell each other how much we loved them. And then I realized how much my kids loved me. And I knew that, but they showed me how much they loved me. And, at the same time, they tried to boss me.
Steve:And, so there was moments that that didn't work out so well.
T.J.:Yeah. You're physically at their mercy.
Steve:Yes. But I had to straighten them out that I was the dog and they were the tail.
T.J.:Looking back at at this, health scare and the recovery, in terms of the ministry, how has that changed your pastoral care? How has that changed your preaching and just how you approach other human beings?
Steve:You know, I've always thought that I was a very empathetic person. Mhmm. And my recent health care crisis in my own life has now helped me understand in a way that I never understood before what it's like when you are rolled off into an OR, and, how do you reach the age I am in my life, TJ? And I have never had never been in a hospital in my entire life, let alone had my chest cut open. And, you know, and I thought, you know, I'd always understood how the person that I was praying for, you know, felt and what they were going through.
Steve:And now I realize that I do understand. You know? And and, you know, it it it's kinda like, you know, the book I read years ago by Henry Nowlin, The Wounded Healer. Mhmm. And, you know, and I felt like, you know, at that point in my life that that I was wounded, and I've been healed.
Steve:And it just gave me a whole new perspective in my pastoral care, which I've always considered myself to be a good pastor, have a pastor's heart. Now I am I feel what they feel. And, when it comes to preaching, you know, I've always felt like that your preaching should be in the context of where you are. And and one of the things that I'm discovering here is is that while we are gaining in the area of younger people at New Hope, New Hope, for the most part, is a very, older congregation. And so there's always someone here having some type of health crisis.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:And so, I make sure that I respond in every way I can to their needs no matter what they are in a way in a whole new fresh way that I've never had before?
T.J.:Yeah. I I asked that question because in my pastoral care, as hard as I have tried to be empathetic to the anxieties, even the fears of the individual who may be facing surgery and the loved ones involved. There's no book or there's no class. There's no even in repetition of the experiences that I think that could really help me understand, unless I was on the other end of that that trauma or that health or that surgery. And I'm not desiring that, but I'm just acutely aware of the the words, the prayers, the the the presence always feels inadequate for the situation.
T.J.:And so I wanted to ask you as somebody who's on who's been on the receiving end of care, physical care, but also on the end of providing that care, you have a unique experience, and it's fresh on your mind. And so I kinda wanted to pick your brain on that a bit.
Steve:I appreciate that. And, you know, one of the, things that's taught me is that, you know, I think oftentimes after and I've been in the ministry for over 40 something years, TJ, is that while I I got up, you know, I put my preacher clothes on, my pastor clothes on, and I, I rushed to the hospital and I prayed. And and I, felt as though I prayed all the right things that well, I always did them with, a sincere heart. I think that when I look back over it now, many times that I'm I had just got so mechanically caught up in just doing that because that's what I do Mhmm. That that I that I, I didn't always feel what they felt and was not always empathetic to what they're going through.
Steve:And now that's not gonna happen because I know what they're going through. And as you shared, I know the anxieties, and I know the fears. I know the thoughts that are running through their mind and, you know, which I always have found it strange because many people have said, well, Steve, nothing seems to bother you. Really? Well, I do a pretty good job of masking it is all I can say because, the last time I checked, I'm human, and things bother me.
Steve:And, and like I say, you know, it was never for me the fear of dying. It was I'm just not ready to for that to occur at this present time because you asked about my grandchildren. Mhmm. 2 weeks ago, on May 20th, I performed and officiated my granddaughter's wedding. Oh, wow.
Steve:And who is graduating Western Kentucky University with a, master's in nursing. And I just kept thinking, I've got I have got to live long enough to do that. Mhmm. And, you know, when the time actually came, you know, when it's your first grandchild, and then, let's just admit it. They're spoiled.
Steve:And, yet she's turned out to be such a sweet, caring young woman. And and and there's no greater honor or privilege or whatever you wanna call it than to be able to officiate your granddaughter's wedding and to see how happy she is and how in love she is, which it also did me some good because she married a youth minister.
T.J.:Okay. So, grandfather approves of the relationship on many levels.
Steve:Oh, yes. My family votes you in. You know, I have I have, son in laws and no complaints.
T.J.:Speaking of family, you had mentioned coming from a big family. Did you grow up in a Christian environment? What what did that look like? Let's talk about that and maybe your profession of faith, and we'll just go from there.
Steve:Okay. You you know, I was born a common Presbyterian TJ, and my grandfather was an elder in my home church, which is Holly Grove, Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Covington,
T.J.:Tennessee. Yeah. West Tennessee.
Steve:Yes. And, he was an elder there until the age of 96. And, my mother, was a wonderful Christian lady and believe it or not, she got up every Sunday morning and she got us all dressed and we went to church. And, I had many, many wonderful pastors, at my home church growing up as a kid. And, you know, sometimes I when I hear these comments about they don't know whether they like their preacher or not.
Steve:I never had a preacher I didn't like. You know? But I had Roy Shelton, Forrest Prosser, MB Jackson, Ralph Madlock, Earl Phelps, and many others at my home church. And, you know, I love them all. And, you know, I had so many people there.
Steve:Who were attentive to other kids. It was like they adopted you even though you were not their child. In my home church, you felt like that you were adopted by them. And I had the most wonderful Sunday school teachers and and, you know, and I had a Sunday school teacher who had me, not just me, but all the kids in the Sunday school class. We memorize scripture.
Steve:And to this day, especially during my recent health crisis, I have needed that because, trust in the Lord with all thine heart, lean not to thy own understanding, and all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy path. If I said that once, I said it, it seemed like a 1,000 times. You know? And, you know, I always felt like I had trusted God. And and for the first time in my life, I was in a position to where I truly understood what that meant to trust God when and maybe maybe I needed that.
Steve:You know? And, I was at a revival. TJ, you asked me about my profession of faith, and there was a guy, there by the name of Bill Rome. And this was when the song probably became popular at that time. He was singing, he touched me.
Steve:Mhmm. And it was during not the invitational hymn at the end, the hymn of consecration, but it was during the singing of that song that I went forward and, presented myself and professed my faith in Christ. And I never will forget what my home pastor said at that time. He said that he said Steve comes forward today to affirm publicly what he has affirmed for a long time in his life. And I I will never forget him saying that.
Steve:Mhmm. And, you know, yes, I was born in a Christian home. I always felt like I knew the unconditional love of God. And, actually, the first job that I ever got was because of a young man in my home church called Richard Dell. I was in college, and he gave me a job for the Army Corps of Engineers, And I worked every summer while I was in college, and, I will never forget him.
T.J.:What did what did you do as your first job?
Steve:I worked out in, you know, at that time, the army corps of engineers did revetment work out on the river. And, Richard was over all the personnel out there on the boats.
T.J.:You
Steve:know, you you stayed in a motel at not hotel at night, but you went out to the boats during the day. And he gave me an administrative job there, which actually led upon completion of my college, to an internship in the federal office building in Memphis.
T.J.:Oh, wow. I I was beginning to envision you, you know, working on the boats, picking up good old, river language and,
Steve:Once a river rat, always a river rat.
T.J.:You don't know how close to home that that term is for me.
Steve:Yeah. Well, trust me. You you learn a lot. And, one of the things about my experience out on the river was it opened my eyes to a new understanding of what the world was really like because I'd always lived a pretty sheltered life up into that point. And let's just say, I grew up miles out
T.J.:there. Well, let's kinda ease into your calling into ministry. How, Steve, how did the calling of ministry pull you away from the Mississippi River?
Steve:I was serving in my home church, and, I felt this tugging upon my heart and life that I ought to do more. And so I went to my home pastor, and I talked to him several times about that. And, I think he gave me pretty good counsel, and, he was a wise, a man of great wisdom, the reverend Ralph Madwell. Very soft spoken and yet very, compassionate. And and and he helped me see that, you know, Steve, if you feel as though God is calling you to the ministry, It would be much simpler if you could just show up here on Sunday morning and you sit in your regular spot and you look down there and there is a note from God saying, I am calling you, and you get the confirmation that you are looking forward.
Steve:And he said, but what I want to encourage you to do is to explore that call, to ministry. And, but he also assured me at the same time that there was nothing wrong with the fact that if I began exploring that call and saw that this is not for me, this is not what God's wanting me to do, That that there was no shame or disgrace and continued to serve in the way I because I served in an elder. I was one of the youngest elders in my home church and later into the Walnut Grove Cumbrian Presbyterian Church. Mhmm. And, so I began in my journey, and I went to Memphis Theological Seminary.
Steve:And, he shared with me while talking with me that if God was calling me into the ministry, I would sense that, and I would see the evidence of God confirming that call in my life. And he was spot on. And, you know, the more I the more I studied and the more I, explored the call that God had on my life. And I don't know if you remember this or not. I don't even know if it's still a required course, but doctor Hubert Mora taught it when I entered seminary, and it was upon your call into the ministry.
Steve:It was called the office of the doctrine of ministry. And it was only a 2 hour course and but it helped me understand that what God was doing in my life was what I needed to be doing, and God was calling me to the ministry. And then from that point on, I love my experience at Memphis Theological Seminary. I I will never never forget, doctor Virgil Todd
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:And him quoting the Exodus passage. I heard your cry. I will never forget the him as long as I will. And I love the knickerbocker. And I love my New Testament professor, doctor William Brawley.
Steve:And, I mean, I loved every professor there, and sometimes my seminary experience exposed me to new ideas and new ways of looking at things because prior to that, TJ, I had a very limited understanding of what the church was. And then I realized while there that the church is much bigger than the Holly Grove Common Presbyterian Church, and, it gave me a whole new perspective about the church. I I gained a whole new worldview while studying at Nephesiological Seminary. And and if and if I could go back, I'd go there again. I loved it.
T.J.:Well, you can always go back to school.
Steve:Well, I could.
T.J.:Before you entered in the seminary, what was your career path?
Steve:I worked for the United United States Army Corps of Engineers. I I showed you what the job that Richard Depp helped me secure. Mhmm. Once I received my degree from college and by the way, I'm a graduate Bethel University now, but it was Bethel College at the time. I graduated there, and, I got an internship, and it was a intern position that promoted you every at the end of every year, it promoted you up.
Steve:And by the time, Responded to the call of ministry, I worked there 5 years, 11 months and 3 days. And if I can find it here, they can't see it, but I'll show it to you. It's been rebound 3 times, this leather bible, and this is the exact bible that the Army Corps of Engineers gave me the day I walked out the building there Wow. The ministry. And that was in 1977.
T.J.:Wow. Well, it's a nice parting gift.
Steve:Yes.
T.J.:Now I could make I could make a joke and say, you know, you haven't taken very good care of it if you've had it rebound multiple times.
Steve:No. It's because of the wear
T.J.:I know.
Steve:And the usage of it.
T.J.:Steve, with your experience in the pastorate and in ministry, what words of wisdom would you impart upon somebody who is exploring the call? How would you steer them either away or towards the call?
Steve:1st, I would steer them toward the call. Because in reflection upon my own ministry over all these years, I can't imagine doing anything else with my life than what God has done in and through me. Mhmm. And, in the pastoral ministry, you know, I've had opportunities to to walk and to be with people in a way that I don't think most individuals ever get. And I think I would pass on the same wisdom that my home pastor gave me of anyone considering the call to the ministry, be it pastoral, be it the mission field, be it a teacher.
Steve:Explore that call and see where that call takes you. And that if I've gained any wisdom at all and I got that wisdom from Ralph Madlock. If this is what God is calling you to do, God will confirm that call again and again and again and again in your life. And that's certainly been my experience. And one of the things I also would have learned in pastoral ministry, and I don't know if you really asked this or not, but I wanna share it.
Steve:I've pastored in the rural common Presbyterian Church. I've pastored in the small town, and I have pastored in the urban city. And no matter rural, small town, or urban, what I have discovered is and realized is that the needs of God's people are all the same. Mhmm. And, you know, and there's no greater blessing, and there's no greater joy than to know that God is able to use you and work in and through you to help bring, wholeness and wellness to other people's lives.
T.J.:Years ago, I was visiting a presbytery. I was either in high school or college. I'm gonna say college. Yeah. It must have been college.
T.J.:I was attending a presbytery that you were a part of, and it was time for communications, you know, excuses for reasons that people, were unable to attend presbytery. And I was acquainted with you, but I didn't really know who you were. And you're you sent a communication in. And I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something to the effect. I won't be at presbytery today.
T.J.:I'm on vacation. I'm in Las Vegas, and I'm having a good time. You can excuse me or not, but I'm not leaving Las Vegas for the Presbytery meeting today, and that has stuck with me for years years years years. And the reason why I I want you to I don't know if you remember writing there or not.
Steve:I do.
T.J.:There's a lot of times is when, you know, we have communications in the presbytery. We're we're often very vague. And what stuck out to me was, 1, you're very specific, and then 2, you didn't really care if you were excused or not. You were on vacation. Vacation in Las Vegas none nonetheless.
T.J.:So I've never had the opportunity to ask you about this. So take a look
Steve:at that. In Murfrees that would have been in Murfreesboro, Presbyterian. And, once again, one of the, you know, one of the things I've always been blessed with. TJ is that in every church. I have served as I have been blessed with good.
Steve:Mentors and ministers. I've always had mentors and lay people in every church that I serve. Mhmm. And one of those mentors in my life in the Lebanon Covenant Presbyterian Church was a guy by the name of Bill Berry. And Bill Berry looked at me one day, and he said that he was in competition, for a free trip to Las Vegas.
Steve:And that if he won it, he was giving half of the proceeds to me.
T.J.:Alright.
Steve:He won. And I took my first trip to Las Vegas. And, you know, once again, I thought this ship may not pass this way again, and I'm going to go to Las Vegas and. I don't know how many people can say that, but I can count on one hand how many times I've missed presbytery in 5 in 44 years. Less than 5.
Steve:And so I didn't really care whether they granted me an excuse or not. And, and and and and and, you know, yes. They granted it. And, you know, here's the thing. Why not tell the truth about where you were?
Steve:Mhmm. You know? I mean, that's where I was. You know? And you asked me about my family.
Steve:That's one of the things that you know, little things that your parents taught you. One of the things my parents always taught me was tell the truth. Honesty goes a long ways.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:And and and and telling an untruth or a lie will only get you in trouble. Mhmm. Well, I didn't wanna get in trouble with the Presbyterian, so I just told the truth.
T.J.:Oh, man. That that has stuck out. I was a candidate for ministry. Yeah. I was at that time, and I was visiting your presbytery.
T.J.:And I was like, wow. I don't know who this person is, but I really admired the forthrightness, and there wasn't anything to hide in the midst of, you know, communications that are always vague. I'm not able to make it, but, you know, rarely with details. But you just put that out there, and, that stuck with me. And I had to ask you, where was that coming from?
T.J.:And also of all places, you know, the Sin City. I'm gonna be in Sin City instead of presbytery meeting, or maybe that isn't such a stretch.
Steve:But just remember, it was saying what goes on in Vegas stays in Vegas. And you know what what what you what you probably are not aware of, but several years ago when my wife died, Bill Berry spoke at my wife's funeral, and he brought up the trip to Las Vegas. And we won't go into detail why.
T.J.:Well, impart some more wisdom if you if you feel comfortable in doing this, Steve, in terms of, you know, losing your spouse and then yet finding love again, and how that fits into faith and your relationship with God, your relationship with your family, blending families, all of those beautiful and complex things. What was that experience like? And I know it wasn't an experience in terms of like, oh, this is an event, but share with me that that time, that season of your life.
Steve:As you may remember, my wife's death was very unexpected. I mean, I was in the room, and she had had knee surgery and and died, and I didn't even know she had passed. I thought she was just resting. And I go from talking to her 10 minutes before to hearing nurses scream code blue, code blue, code blue. And, when they got her upstairs at Saint Thomas Hospital in a neurological pod, you and I both know because you've been there yourself.
Steve:When 2 chaplains and 2 doctors walk in, I mean, you know what they're gonna say. And so after that, you know. Mechanically, you know, or you have to do all the things there. That are necessary to give closure and to celebrate someone's life, and and I did all of that. And and then at that time, the church where I was serving, which was Bowling Green, felt as though that I needed to take some time off.
Steve:So I tried that. And, within a week after I was gone, And they gave me an unlimited time. I could take as much time as I wanted off. And, a church member there who had been ill for quite a long time, who was a veteran and a great guy, and I went to coffee with him on many days and occasions. He died unexpectedly.
Steve:And they contacted me and his family, and they understood that I was in no position probably to do his service, but they understood that. But they wanted me to know. Well, the smartest thing I ever did was I returned back to the church, and I did his service celebrating his life because this is what I do. And and, you know, many people will say oftentimes that people hide, you know, in their work and that, you know, I I just went back to work because that way I'm really not grieving. Well, for me, that wasn't true.
Steve:The way I the way I was going to get through all of this was is to return back to serving God in the way that I had been serving God when this all unexpectedly happened. Mhmm. And and to deny the fact that I grieved all that time, it is not because one of the things that I learned, TJ, about grief was this. My wife worked for Dillard's, and mister Dillard had flown in from Little Rock, Arkansas, and she was one of the top sales persons there. And they were after she died, she was already scheduled to receive an award.
Steve:And and I thought when they can give me the invitation, I thought to myself, I will go if I think I can go and not be a a, a blubbering crybaby. Mhmm. And, so the day came and I went, and the event was over, and I received the award. But this is where I'm going to what I learned about grief was is that I got back to my car because I had to park my car on the street, and, you know, I did fine. And then when I got to my car, you know, I reached to put my hand on the door handle so the car would unlock.
Steve:And out of nowhere, he you know, when you've been outside and you look up and there's not a cloud in the sky and then all of a sudden starts pouring down raining on you? Mhmm. I started bawling, and I started crying. And and for the first time in my life, I thought as much as I'd seen other people grieve, I realized that grief is not something you can control. You know, you you you know, those moments when you grieve come up out of nowhere just like brain can come out of nowhere in an instant, and that I continue to to to remember that it was okay to grieve.
Steve:And, you know, and and, you know, and and even in moments when I returned to church, if some song was sung and and and or something was said. I remember oftentimes, I was sitting there saying to myself, okay. The last one, you gotta get it together. You gotta get it together. You gotta get it together because it was gonna be soon time.
Steve:The hymn would be over, and it would be time for me to to move on into the next part of worship. And, but then I learned just let myself grieve at whatever pace I was. And, you know, I I just continued to serve the church, and then I think God has a hand in all of that. And, a young couple that I had preached her ordination service, and her husband became an orthodontist. And, I returned back to the Lebanon church on 1 Sunday morning to baptize their children.
Steve:They I I had preached their ordination, and I had officiated their wedding, and now they wanted me to baptize their children.
T.J.:Yeah.
Steve:So I went back to the church there. And when I got there that morning, this woman stood up who was a music director there, who was not there at the time I was its pastor. And out of nowhere, she began leading the music, and I could feel the spirit of God flowing through her. And it's just like it was flowing directly at me, and it was like God picked up a a club and hit me in the head and said, it's time, Steve, for you to begin a new chapter in your life. You need to ask that one out.
Steve:Well, within 24 hours, I finally must've up enough courage to do that. And, you know, I say that because, you know, when you have been married such a long time to a person and then that person's no longer there and you have to start a new chapter in your life. Mhmm. It's scary. And but I will say one thing that God got that right.
Steve:Remarrying, and being currently married to my wife, Faye. I never forget the first time my oldest daughter met her. We were standing outside, and my oldest daughter walked outside where I was standing, and Faye was in the house talking to my other children. And Moe's daughter said, you know, his mother would love her.
T.J.:It's a wonderful thing to hear.
Steve:And, you know, when you start another chapter of your life, you realize that I say another chapter. It's just a continuation of the good life that I've always had. You know? There are people who look back upon their life and always seem to be able to see as the bad. When I look back upon my life, what I see is the good Mhmm.
Steve:And what a blessed life I've had. And, you know, I attribute all of that in the way I feel to the church. And, you know, when I hear some people putting on their gloves and badmouthing the church, I'll be at the head of the line shouting the loudest, defending the church because if there were moments in my life when I felt like that other people were not there, There's never been a moment in my life when the church starting from the moment that I was born into the Holy Grove Common Presbyterian Church to this very day, there's never been a moment in my life that I didn't feel the presence of the Cumming Presbyterian Church. Mhmm. You know, I love the Cumberland Presbyterian Church.
T.J.:What are some of the things that the Cumberland Presbyterian denomination you think is doing really well?
Steve:You know, I think the new approach that we have was some people will not agree. The fact that our missions now has broadened and become global, I think that's one of the things that we are doing right. Mhmm. I think that secondly, from the beginning, you know, that we have presented the gospel in a way it proclaims the truth, but at the same time, you also hear a a message of truth proclaimed with a message coupled right beside it with grace. Mhmm.
Steve:I'm gonna have to stop for a second, teacher. Sure. Yeah.
T.J.:Go ahead.
Steve:About that.
T.J.:I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Steve:Sorry about that.
T.J.:No. No need to follow-up
Steve:with this. Here wanting help. K. Now where were we?
T.J.:You had just finished up. You were talking about
Steve:Oh, the second the second thing.
T.J.:Yeah. You were talking about coupling,
Steve:The the gospel, which is the gospel with grace. Embrace. Yes. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things, that the common Presbyterian Church does very well because I say that because my current wife was exposed so much to a different tradition.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:And she made the comment that when she became a part of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church in West Nashville, that it was the first time in her adult life that she'd ever heard the word grace. And, I think that's one of the things that the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, does well. And some would say that, perhaps we water down the gospel. I don't think that's true at all. But I think that we we proclaim and preach the word of God, coupled with the message of grace, and give people the opportunity to respond to that in a way that is appropriate for their life.
T.J.:Where do you think we have areas for improvement as a denomination, as a people called Cumberland Presbyterian?
Steve:You know, I know this is probably not the answer that you were wanting to get. But if there's one area that I think that we need to change. It's not so much change as it is is to rethink it. When I hear people so often refer to the Cullman Presbyterian Church, they think of it and they say, well, you know, we're just a small denomination. I think we need to get rid of that kind of mentality.
Steve:I think we are denomination with a great message and just drop the word small out. Mhmm. And, because, you know, sometimes the old saying goes, bigger is not always better. Mhmm.
T.J.:And
Steve:now in our culture is, we need to learn that sometimes, less is more. And, you know, I I hear people saying all the time that what we need to do in order to, change and attract different people is we need to change our name. I'm not about to take Cumberland Presbyterian off the church sign. Mhmm. I think that's something to embrace, not something to change.
Steve:And, I think when people come to a common Presbyterian Church, regardless of what the sign says out front where it says New Hope Common Presbyterian Church or if it said New Hope Community Church, I think it's about what they experience once they walk through the doors of that church. It's most important. Mhmm. Not what name it has on the sign out front.
T.J.:Yeah. To to be a people who are seeking and receive good news, the gospel, and grace, also the gospel. Absolutely.
Steve:Also, you know, I think sometimes we try, and I certainly don't think this is just at any particular level. But it seems as though sometimes that we have a trouble keeping everyone informed about what is going on in the Cullman Presbyterian Church, and I don't think that's due to any one particular group of people as much as it is that, you know, you can receive, like, for example, the missionary messenger free. Mhmm. Any church member, any church can't, and yet, for some reason, we have people that do not make yourself avail of that. You know?
Steve:And why would you not? You know? So you would know what's going on in the common Presbyterian church in the area of missions. And and yet at the same time, they won't receive that that that communication. They'll complain about the fact that we're not doing anything.
T.J.:Well, I'll even push it a little further because I'm a contributor to the missionary messenger, the example that you gave for the magazine. Just by receiving it doesn't mean that people are reading it. So I think I'm a piggyback on the improvement for communication. How we communicate with one another, how we dialogue with one another is crucial, but it takes more than 1 individual. Takes that interaction.
Steve:Yes. I certainly agree. I I reckon that, you know, I reckon maybe I was speaking from my perspective, TJ, because one of the things that I do when I received the MissionEAR Messenger, I read it from front to back. Mhmm. You know?
Steve:And, you know, because I do wanna know what's going on, and I do wanna know what is happening in the church. And, sometimes the articles that are in there are not just about what's going on in the aramid, but they're they are educational articles that can give you a different insight and a different perspective of how you might or how the approach to missions is changing. You know, and, you know, and, asking yourself, you know, is your church a missional church? Is it, you know, and because over my years in the ministry, one of the things that I have discovered is is is that that I think we need to improve on is that we spend so much trying time trying to maintain that we don't spend enough time reaching out. And, you know, every church I have served, initially, when I got there was it was more inward grown than outward.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:And so one of the things that has been my whole focus, no matter what church I serve, is teaching them that the gospel is not just about who are inside these walls, but it's about what goes on out of here in the world. And that what we need to do is to find out where God is at work in the world and join
T.J.:him. Yeah. Communication, definitely an area for improvement. But it should always be at the top for areas of improvement. Not just news, but just our interactions with each other, how we interact with one another.
Steve:You know, one of the things that that I really have enjoyed, since moving back to this area. Many people, I don't see it as I don't believe they see it as a positive, but I see it as a very positive thing. I have the opportunity now on Monday morning at 10 o'clock to meet with a group of common Presbyterian ministers in Smyrna, Tennessee at Cracker Barrel, which originally it was called Nashville now. But, you know, it's a group of ministers. And, I think that's one of the things that we need in Christian Church is that we need somehow to have, more, vehicles like that that, you know, we're not coming together to, strategize.
Steve:We're not coming together to, plan. We're just coming together for the sake of being with one another
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:And and, and just have the opportunity to I mean, I enjoy fellowshipping with the ministers that I get to see. And and and just, you know, we and just hear about what's going on in their family and and and something that's weird or something that's exciting or funny that's happened in their life. And, you know, it's it's, it it's, such a relaxing environment. But at the same time, it is such a refreshing environment. It you know?
Steve:It's just it's the camaraderie of it. You you know what I mean? Just we're just we're just, you know, it's like, we're better together. You know what I mean? And and we're just hanging out with one another.
Steve:And and and there's times that in the ministry I think if we're all honest, ministry is a very lonely profession sometime because what we do so often, we do by ourself.
T.J.:Yeah.
Steve:And and maybe I feel that way because I'm a people person. I like to be around people. Yeah. You know, I enjoy the company of other people. I I I value what other people have got to say, and and share.
Steve:And I think, you know, it's kinda like, I'm not saying it doesn't have value or its place, but that's like offering the fact that I can get a degree from Memphis Theological Seminary online, or I can go to the seminary and I can interact with TJ Malinowski, or I can interact with other peers and colleagues. I'll take the latter anytime over an online degree.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. There's benefits and challenges for pursuing your education online. And I guess that balance the balance is the challenge for the institution, but also for the student as well. It really is.
Steve:Yeah. I mean I mean, just like today, even in this time that I have spent with you, you have said things that sparked my interest. And, you know, while they may have been, not intended, there are gonna be things that when this podcast is over, I I'm gonna reflect on those things.
T.J.:Yeah.
Steve:Because I think that's how we are challenged to to expand our understanding of ministry and our understanding of where God is at work in the world and our understanding of the church at large.
T.J.:Yeah. I was having a conversation with a colleague earlier this week, and we were talking about communication. We were talking about dialogue with other other folks and the importance of being able to gather together with 1 or multiple people for dialogue. We're so I think as Presbyterians, we're so geared towards, we get together for worship. That's essential.
T.J.:But the other times that we get together are for board or committee meetings, and those have a specific, like, outcome or goal. And what's wrong with us gathering and to have a theological discussion or one of child rearing or upcoming or past vacations or what's happening in the ministries that were involved. There is no outcome. It's just a matter of sharing, but growth can come from that. I think that's very needed.
T.J.:And what can't be replaced or replicated, I should say, is that that human interaction in the same in the same space, physical space. And then what technology has to offer is fantastic. It's excellent. We're using it right now, but it still falls secondary. I'm very grateful it's here, but the ideal is that you and I would be sitting in in the same room.
Steve:But what you know, I think what you said is one of the things that has probably been referred to, and I apologize for interrupting, that there's no greater gift than anything that one can bring to the ministry sometimes. If we're if if if when we are with someone else, it's called the ministry of presence. Mhmm. You know, we're just present with them. You know?
Steve:I mean, you know, sometimes, you know, we we think that when we're in the hospital waiting room and we're waiting the outcome of some serious surgery someone's undergoing. It's not what we say that sometimes is the most critical.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:What people remember is the fact whether it whether it was TJ or whether it was myself, they remember the fact that we were present and we were there with them.
T.J.:Yeah. Tyler Lindsey, reverend Tyler Lindsey, a previous guest on Cumberland Road, he was talking about that, and I value it so much because he is a minister. He's usually on the giving end, not always, but usually ministers are on the giving end. But because of a tornado that devastated his home and the community, he had to be on the receiving end and the power of presence.
Steve:Okay. I got someone else. Can I just stop just for a second?
T.J.:Absolutely. Yeah. I'll hang tight.
Steve:That was a church memory. I'm sorry.
T.J.:No. That's okay.
Steve:I just decided to have someone stop by and visit with.
T.J.:What's your favorite kind of music, And why is music so important to to you as a couple, but also to your ministry?
Steve:One of the things that I love about music is is is that music speaks to the depth of our soul in a way that other things do not. And you asked me what kind of music that I like the most. I just can't pinpoint which type of music I like the most. Because sometimes, if I'm in this office by myself or riding in my car, I love what people laugh about. I love the elevator music.
T.J.:Okay.
Steve:Where it's just instrumental. Mhmm. I don't, you know, I don't even wanna hear words. And then I love the traditional hymns of the faith. Mhmm.
Steve:And, I found it very interesting because people have often said that. Young people love contemporary music. Well, when the youth of the Bowling Green Church were asked to pick what they wanted to sing, it used Sunday. They picked the traditional hymns of the church. And, you know, to me, the reason I think that hymns are so important to both of us as a couple is when I sing the hymn, morning by morning, your mercies I see, great is thy faithfulness, Lord, unto me.
Steve:It reminds me of how faithful God has been, how faithful God is, and how faithful God is will continue to be regardless of whether I'm faithful or unfaithful to God. God remains steadfast and faithful, and that his love is forever reaching out toward me. And I think the traditional hymns of the church speak to us with a depth and a breadth. And I like contemporary music. But the traditional hymns just have a depth and a breadth and a width that speak to me in a way that contemporary music doesn't.
Steve:You know? But at the same time, if you get in my car, it's always on the message.
T.J.:Okay.
Steve:And that's that's the Christian radio station, and, you know, you it's always playing music and, you know, and I love Lauren Davis' new song that's just come out called thank you, Lord. And, you know, and so, you know, music adds a dimension to worship that would not be present if it was absent. And, you know, I think there's times that for me, and I don't know other people, but music can move me in a way that what you might have said through a sermon, but when it was said through a song, it gives me what I call those spiritual goosebumps. And I myself like my wife being a pretty good singer. There are times that when you sing and you sing for the glory of God, you get those goosebumps over you when your voice sings a certain part of a song.
Steve:And it's just like anything else, you know, that's of God because you can't control when they come and you can't control when they leave.
T.J.:Yeah.
Steve:And, I I I think where would the world be without music? And by the way, I love I love I love classical. I even like country.
T.J.:You're gonna make Cumberland Road a confessional podcast.
Steve:Well, that's okay. Is it not?
T.J.:In a way, maybe. Well, let me ask you this on music. We can stay here for a minute. Do you when you sing, do you ever lose yourself in the song, kinda like in time and space? Like, you're not thinking about where you're standing or or who's around you or maybe even where what the words are or what the instruments are.
T.J.:I'm wondering because I don't have those talents, but I really enjoy music. And there are times, and not that I can force it or make it happen, but I can kinda lose myself into the music. And and there's gaps of it it it pushes me. It, it allows me to travel maybe even outside of myself. I don't know.
T.J.:I'm kinda rambling now. But does that something like that happen to you?
Steve:When you said the words traveling, to me, music does for me. You know, have you ever, been driving a car, TJ, and you're out on the interstate, and you look up and you're at mile marker 16? Mhmm. And then only later, you're at mile marker 42, and you don't remember anything between 16 and 42.
T.J.:Yeah. That's kinda what I'm because
Steve:you were lost and caught up into whatever you were experiencing. Mhmm. Well, to me, anyone who sings and and and and and and puts their whole self into it, It's that same type of experience. And and and then you know the moment it began began, and then all of a sudden, that moment ends, and yet you wonder what all did you feel and experience between the beginning and the end. Mhmm.
Steve:You know? And, and there's times that that music speaks to the person or to myself or a person of faith in a way that maybe a message didn't. Because one of the things I have learned in my own pastoral visitation is is that when I go out to a nursing home or an Alzheimer's unit or to an assisted living place or whatever, that person, when I enter their room, may not know who I am.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:But if I looked at this particular lady and one comes to my my mind, her name was Betty Jordan, she never knew who I was when I entered the room. But I could say, Betty, let let us sing how great the art, and she knew every word.
T.J.:Wow.
Steve:And so music, even in those moments when they don't have clarity about other things, that's why I reckon I love the great hymns of the church is because even in those moments of confusion, and lack of memory, Somehow those songs and those words. They don't forget and, so I think that just. Reiterates the fact that music touches people in a way that sometimes other mediums don't.
T.J.:Right.
Steve:Yeah. You know? And then again, I'd rather hear you know? I mean, I love going to a concert or to listening to an artist sing and perform. You know?
Steve:Because I can sit there and I like to when an artist is singing, I don't know why, but I like to listen with my eyes shut.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:I it it it it increases or sharpens my hearing or something.
T.J.:Yeah. It it can cover up the, the eyelids cover up the visual distractions, potential distractions. So that, the mind's eye can focus on the instruments, the voice, and the lyrics.
Steve:You said that much more beautifully than I did.
T.J.:Steve, we were talking about the church and its strengths and areas for improvements, but I'm interested also in your dream for the Cumberland Presbyterian Church, the dream that when you and I are gone, where would you like to see the denomination in the world and its impact on the world?
Steve:You know, when you asked me that, TJ, when I began to think about it is that when I began ministry, ministry did not seem to be so much multifaceted, you know, or the expectations of what were expected from you if you were an ordained minister. Over the years, the ex ex expectations for a minister have just increasingly grew. And because of technology and things like that, now we're we are always being compared to somebody that they hear or watch or listen to on whatever form of, medium or communication that works TV or radio or whatever. My dream for the Compressed Union Church, and I know that this may sound simple, but my dream is is that there'll always be a Christian church Mhmm. That we will not cease to exist because I hear so many people with that message of doom and gloom that.
Steve:You know, that there'll become a point in time in history where we won't exist, and I don't believe that. You know? And and and to me, I think the and what I want to see happening in the Cullman Presbyterian Church is is that, you know, that we see a stronger need for the church as a whole to reach out into the world and to be what God has called the church to be at in the world and and just become focused on what god is doing in the world and and partnering with God in the world to accomplish whatever his will is. Because, you know, I think sometimes in the in the local church, we think that what our visions needs to be is we need to, find some kind of program or something that's gonna fix us so we can move forward. Well, I think that's getting the cart before the horse.
Steve:You know, I I think that one of the greatest bible studies that I ever did, and I'm sure everybody's got their opinion, But it was the Bible study years ago called experiencing God, written by Henry Blackaby and Claude King. And even though I didn't agree with everything that was in it theologically, it it did help me learn how to discern what the will of God is and how to look for where God is at work in the world. And so if I have any dream for vision for the CP church, it's for those who are called to serve the Covenant Presbyterian Church will always stay in that discernment process of trying to determine where God is at work in the world and what is God wanting to accomplish in and through us as a denomination.
T.J.:Yeah. To maybe do that dirty and hard discernment of looking inwardly both as individuals but the corporate body and go, well, here's who we are, here's who we're not, and here's who we could be. Absolutely. Yeah. That takes time and, willingness to be, well, vulnerable.
T.J.:Find things that we may not be so proud of, when we're not at our best moments. And I keep saying we, because it's collective, corporate.
Steve:But you you know, and the last thing you just said is sometimes I think where it's collectively as a church or as an individual, sometimes things are said to us and we don't like them. Mhmm. But if we become honest with ourselves and truly listen to what was shared to us and what it ever whatever it was that rattled us, That we can come to the fact and the awareness that there's much truth in what has been spoken to us. And instead of seeing that as a negative. See it as a positive, you know, sometimes women are not like what is said to us.
Steve:But if we get into that reflective state, that we will look at and look inward and realize that there was much truth in what was spoken to us.
T.J.:Yeah. And that relationship with the other individual or within groups to allow that space for that reflection. So, you know, to be for me to be able to ask why did that sting? Why did that offend me? Why did that hurt?
T.J.:Why did that anger me? I might need I will need time to kinda to do that self reflecting. And it could be minutes, it could be hours, it could be days, it could be months. Oh, man. Steve was right.
T.J.:I can be a jerk in a meeting or whatever. You know, the
Steve:I agree with that.
T.J.:But yeah. But the relationship has to be we have to be intentional, and it has to be
Steve:Yeah. You you know, going back to my seminary experience, you know, I had never you know, you you you hear new things. And I remember one of the things that doctor Maher taught in the office of doctor ministry was for us to learn to do theological reflection. And at the end of every day of our life, you know, I don't know if you do this or not, but I I journal. And I try at the end of the day or sometimes I let several days pass by, but then I try to catch up.
Steve:And I still keep a spiritual journal to this day to ask myself and to look at where I see God at work, not only in my life, but the life of the church and the world in which I live in. And and I think that's important because if not, we just once again, we just get so caught up in doing
T.J.:Mhmm.
Steve:That we forget about being and and and and what it is that god is saying to us in our life.
T.J.:Yeah. Yeah. That's a hard exercise for me. Steve, thank you for giving me your entire morning, and it's been interesting to watch. This will be edited out, but to watch you juggle, between our faith conversation and your faith journey in the midst of different pastoral care opportunities that have come to your office today unexpected.
T.J.:So it's been a blessing to be a part of that and also to to be able to watch you work and share of yourself, and I thank you for that, Steve.
Steve:Alright. I thank you for this opportunity, and we'll talk soon.
T.J.:Thank you for listening to this episode of Cumberland Road. I want to express my gratitude for all the guests and for the listeners and for your understanding as I grow as a host, and in my listening skills, and in my curiosity to hear how God is working through others' lives and have the ability to be able to share this good news with others. I recently come across these words by Henri Nouwen. You might have already discovered for yourself how radically different traveling alone is from traveling together. I have found over and over again how hard it is to be truly faithful to Jesus when I am alone. I need my brothers or sisters to pray with me, to speak with me about the spiritual task at hand, and to challenge me to stay pure in mind, heart, and body.
