Tammy Greene - God Continues To Work On Me
Exploring faith journeys and inspiring ministries that embody the good news of God. This is The Cumberland Road. I'm your host, TJ Malinoski. Today's guest is reverend Tammy Greene. She is the minister at the Shiloh Cumberland Presbyterian Church in Greenville, Tennessee. In our conversation, Tammy describes a time of missing God's nudging and the struggle of living with it. She openly shares a challenge ministers face and the reluctance to tell others they are in the ministry with the concern of being treated differently. In her faith journey, Tammy talks about her call to ministry, the benefits of being a second career pastor, being open to God's continued work in her life, asking what follows after retirement, and seeing the church being able to blend the traditional ways of worship with the new. Enjoy this conversation on the Cumberland Road with reverend Tammy Greene.
T.J.:Reverend Tammy Green, thank you for joining me on the podcast.
Tammy:Hey, TJ. It's great to be with you.
T.J.:I wanna open with this question. Tammy, when you were a little girl, what did you want to be when you grew up?
Tammy:Well, definitely not a preacher. That was not even on the horizon. Like like a lot of little girls, I wanted to be a singer. So I'd have my plastic pineapple that me and my sisters would sing into. And I never had really a set thing that I wanted to be.
Tammy:I still don't have a set thing I want to be. So but as a little girl, I wanted to be a singer, you know, Need to be up there dancing on the stage, and I guess that was from, taking dancing lessons and enjoying that. And
T.J.:Do you sing now?
Tammy:When the choir is practicing, yes. We haven't been practicing or singing as a choir here at church since, COVID hit, but, miss it terribly. And I'm ready for us to get back, but we still have a few of our choir members since we have such a small choir that haven't come back to me in person worship. So we've got about half that have and half that haven't. And when you've only got a choir of about 12 people, it's a little hard to have a choir with 6.
T.J.:Right. Well, Tammy, share with me a meaningful experience that you've had with God, and that can be something from your teenage years, your young adult years, or even something more recent.
Tammy:I've had quite a few, experience meaningful experiences, and I'm glad you said meaningful because it can be a positive meaningful experience or a negative meaningful experience. And my church family knows knows that, those that are close to me because I've used this as a description a couple of times when I graduated from seminary and started interviewing at different churches, I went to Omni, Texas. And in my PIF form, my pass my resume, I said I was willing to go anywhere because I really thought that I was. I didn't I'd lived in Knoxville. I'd lived away from my family, and, I thought wherever god sends me, I'll go.
Tammy:Albany was a great great community, great people. It was one of those church congregations that just sort of we clicked right away. They were so nice. They bent over backwards, for me. Interesting thing was I I was being housed with at 1 I think the session clerk's house.
Tammy:And the very first 2 or 3 hours I was there, I stepped off the curb and turned my ankle.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:And I thought, oh, goodness. So, we got it iced, and I limped along for the weekend. And, they had dinner with the search committee on a Saturday night. And, it was interesting. The the questions they had asked me were not normal questions that you would ask a pastor that you're that you're looking at.
Tammy:Like, what was the last movies you watched? What were the last books you read? And, it was just an instant. I could see myself here. Sermon and the worship time the next day, and the and the meeting went well.
Tammy:They asked me on Saturday night what what would keep me from coming to Texas. And I said, well, my family because I'm so far away from them. And I've never been this far away from them that I couldn't get back to them if something happened. I said, but that's that's my biggest concern. But other than that, I said that in the end, their, their parsonage needed some work on it.
Tammy:So I said, I'm a fixer upper kind of person. I said, so you just need to know it. If if I live when I if I take the job and live in the parsonage, I'm gonna be spending too much time trying to fix the parsonage instead of getting to know you all, which I need to do a bit more. And they listened to all that and came back with an offer that just blew my mind. They had they said they would give me, they would always have a standby airplane ticket so that if something happened at home, I could immediately get on a plane and head back to Tennessee that they gave me a week off every quarter so I could come back to Greenville every quarter and not be gone for very long.
Tammy:I I mean, it was just one thing after another after another, and I'm just like, I can't believe this. And then the next day, after after dinner after worship, one of the search committee's husbands, who hadn't really said a lot to me because he wasn't on the search committee. We were in the kitchen, I remember, and he said, so what do you think? And I knew immediately what he's what he meant, and I started to cry. And I said, I just don't think I can leave my parents.
Tammy:And he said, how old are your parents? And I said, they're in their their their seventies their mid seventies. And he said, you go home, and you take care of your parents. Because we'll be alright. God will send us somebody if it's not you.
Tammy:And it was it was a realization for me that I just thought I could go wherever God sent me. And it was hard for me to make that realization, because I really did think that I would go wherever god sent me. But it was like god giving me it's okay, Tammy, that you can't come here. This is where I want you. But if you can't do it, it's okay.
Tammy:On the way out of town, got pulled over by a cop, going too fast in my rental car. Nicest nicest police officer I've ever encountered. I think he was a highway patrol. Ask me, you know, he knew I was in a real car. Ask me where why I was there, where I was going.
Tammy:I told him the whole thing. He goes, well, we'd really like you to come be a part of Texas. It's a nice place to live here. He goes, now you slow it down. I have never never gotten out of the ticket in my life.
Tammy:I thought, if if God's not giving me one more jab of this is where you need to be, I slowed you down with the trooper who did not give you a ticket, did not was nice. Hope you hope you become one of us here. We'd love to have you kind of thing. And, Yeah. That was that was hard.
Tammy:And I still, I still struggle with that decision, main mainly because I knew I said no to God. And I and I didn't know that I wouldn't do that. And I know the next person that the only church did call, don't know the pastor and and his wife and children, but a terrible accident ended up happening around Christmas. And I believe his wife and child died.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:And I know when I found that out, all I could think of was if you had been obedient and gone, that man's family might still be alive because they wouldn't have been there. So that haunts me. I know I'm forgiven, but I think sometimes we sort of sort of fluff off the fact that when we say no to God, we don't know what effect that always has on us and maybe others. And everybody's tried to tell me, you know, that could have happened no matter where they were. I said, I know that.
Tammy:But feel forgiven. I just can't forgive myself.
T.J.:Well, that's really heavy, Tammy. You know,
Tammy:the Yeah.
T.J.:The temptation for me is, to to analyze it or to fix it or so I'm just gonna say that sounds like a very impactful, meaningful experience with god. And thank you for sharing. Yeah. Building upon that, how has that changed your relationship? If you feel that it's, it was an act of disobedience, how has that impacted and changed your relationship with God?
Tammy:I guess, it's changed it all along because after my father died, after I came back to Tennessee after that interview, and I was telling them, you know, all about it. And my daddy said, are you gonna go? And I said, no. I'm not I'm not gonna take it. And he said, are you staying here for us?
Tammy:And I said, no. No. That's not the reason. And then and then when my dad died, that next Ash Wednesday after everyone left, another meaningful time with god was I realized I had put my daddy before my God.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:And just the realization of that that we should have nobody else before God continues to work on me. I felt great great forgiveness that night in pouring my soul out on those altar steps of telling God how sorry I was that I put my parents before him. But I guess that has formed my spiritual faith as I go on because now I've got great nieces that I love dearly that I can't put before God. I have to remember that. But, yeah, it continues to okay.
Tammy:Am I saying no to God? It's always, am I saying no to God? It's pretty much it.
T.J.:So, yeah, that could be a daily question
Tammy:Mhmm.
T.J.:For our faith journeys.
Tammy:Yeah.
T.J.:Where am I saying yes? And where am I hesitating?
Tammy:Right. And and and on the other side, you know, I I I shared what terrible tragedy came out, what I think of of me saying no, but I don't know what blessings I missed out on by not going to Texas. So that's the other side of it. We don't know what we miss out on by saying no to god.
T.J.:Well, let's not leave this hanging. But since we let's go a little bit further back in your past, and we can always come back and revisit if you like. Tammy, you grew up in the church, didn't you?
Tammy:I did. I grew up at Greenville Cumberland Presbyterian. Turner Kleiner baptized me, and Roy Blackburn was my pastor from age 5 on. So, he's definitely one of the ones that had such a positive influence on my spiritual journey. It was a it was a growing time since I'm a baby boomer.
Tammy:We had lots of people there, lots of events, and just seemed like a big family to me. I remember the all an older gen all the older gentlemen, the ones that would hand you the the wrapped butterscotches in the back row, you know, and slip them to you, and and you'd get in trouble for crinkling the candy paper. And, just great, great memories. And then when I moved to Knoxville for a job, I went to a PC USA church and joined there and encountered another one of the people that had a great positive experience in my life, and that was Gwen Baker. She was the, youth director, Christian ed director at the PCUSA church, Lake Forest there.
Tammy:And, she'd been in youth ministry for over 20 years, which is unheard of. And, just had a great heart and, was good about being able to put people where they needed to be. She knew I didn't like dealing with the middle schoolers, so she tried her best not to put me with the middle schoolers. She knew I could get too focused when it came to, like, directing you Sunday. And, she'd say, no.
Tammy:We need to make sure that it we don't care if it's perfect, Tammy. We care that everybody's included. Look at here now. I know I know, but they just showed up today. What do you want me to include them in?
Tammy:Can they take up the offering? I said, yes. They can take up the offering. But, had a way of of making what was important, what was really important
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:To focus. So, learned a lot from her. And, then when I left my job at SunTrust, I came back to Greenville. Still still still at SunTrust in the banking profession, and didn't didn't have any desire, actually, to leave Knoxville. I loved it there.
Tammy:Left my job, and God just sort of, again, brought me to a place that's like, okay. You've got to move here. You've got to move back. And I thought it was to take care of my parents again. Well, they were playing golf every other day and looked like the epitome of good health.
Tammy:I'm like, okay. I'm I'm here. And then felt God's call into the ministry, not long after I heard Alfonso Marquez speak on a birthday celebration event at the Greenville Church where he left his job as a a lucrative truck driver to follow God to East Tennessee of all places and what he gave up and what his family gave up to move here.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:And that was probably one of the first or hopes that that God gave me was through Alfonso's story. And, Yeah. Because January
T.J.:yeah. Yeah. Because you your calling in ministry came with a little life experience. You know? So talk about that for a minute.
T.J.:You you experienced life before, accepting the call to the ministry, the word, and sacraments.
Tammy:Right. I made it sound
T.J.:I made it sound like gritty and awful. I didn't mean it necessarily like that. But
Tammy:actually, I think it makes me a better pastor, for a lot of reasons. I I I can do a lot of things. None of them will. I'm a jack of all trades, bastard. And, so I had 4 years of banking experience here in Greenville and then moved to Knoxville and had 12 more years there, including the 2 years I was back here in Greenville before I felt called into the ministry.
Tammy:And I did both. I was going to seminary part time and still working at bank until, the day that, I I sent my seminary application in. And the day I mailed my seminary application, we got word that afternoon that the the bank in Greenville was closed. And so I was like, okay. God slammed that door real quick.
Tammy:But since I didn't work for the branch, I worked for the operation company. I could still go back to Knoxville or, Johnson City or Morristown that still had branches. So I fought for a severance package and did not find out that I had gotten it until October. Mhmm. This was in April to October.
Tammy:So I was in seminary at the time, wondering whether I should keep working and going to seminary. And my my fleece was, God, if you get me my severance package, then I'll know that you want me to quit and go full time to seminary. And they came through with my severance package in October. And my last day was Halloween.
T.J.:And I didn't know that that spark in thinking in towards ministry was, a sermon from and testimony from Alfonso Marquez. I I sort of talked over you. Did you wanna pick that one back up?
Tammy:He didn't know it for the longest time. I think I finally told him when he was here picking up clothes one Saturday morning that they would do, and, I don't think he really paid much attention to me, but I was like, yeah. You know, He can do it not knowing the language here and going coming from South Texas to here. It's a big difference. So
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:But I think that helped me see that, look. God's gonna take care of me even if I leave my job that I love because he loved what he was doing. I loved what I was doing. Didn't really wanna leave the bank. So it wasn't a dissatisfaction of what you're doing.
Tammy:It was just okay. This is the next step. But my background, I think, as a volunteer in churches, youth groups, gosh, Sunday school teacher, whatever, gives me more insight and gives me more understanding of the congregation because I haven't been a pastor my whole life.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:I have been out there in the secular world. And, one other god moment was I was sleeping under my desk. We were doing one of many mergers or acquisitions that we did at SunTrust. And, sleeping under my desk is one of those 24 hour pools where you're trying to get everything in. And I remember thinking, if I'm gonna stay at 24 hours, it's gonna be for something that means something, not a merger or a computer conversion.
Tammy:And the first time I spent 24 hours in the hospital waiting for somebody to die was sort of like, yeah. This means something.
T.J.:Let's talk a little bit about where you are now and the congregation that you serve and how long you've been there and some of the joys that come from longevity of serving 1 congregation?
Tammy:That was probably one of the hardest things that God has done to me. Coming to Shiloh was I didn't want to come here. Not even Jesus could teach in his own hometown, and this is my hometown. And I tried my best in the interview to get them not to pick me. And, they did anyway.
Tammy:And I almost backed I almost backed out. But I even though I stayed in banking for 16 years, I was constantly changing jobs in the banking profession. I never in my life had ever been in the same job for more than 4 years. And when I hit the 4 year mark here at Shiloh, I was like, okay. Where am I going now?
T.J.:Was it panic mode?
Tammy:It was like, there's you're not going anywhere. And then the next year, you're not going anywhere. And in 6 days, I'll have celebrated my 15th year here at Shiloh. Wow. And and that was hard.
Tammy:I was used to okay. I've tackled this. I've got this better. I've got this in working order. It's time to go take the next challenge.
Tammy:Yeah. Fix them and go on to the next one. There's no fixing people. There's no the the job is never done, and that's hard. I was used to even in our projects that took 2 years, you still saw an end to it.
Tammy:In in the preaching pastoral world, there is no for me, there's no feeling of accomplishment. Soon as you get one sermon under your belt, well, you've got another one to do in weeks. There's I like to be able to go, okay. That's done, and I can move on to something else. It's never done, and I'm still struggling with that.
Tammy:But I think being in the secular world, number 1, I'm not afraid to lose my job. I have a lot of other skills. I think if I had been a pastor my whole life, I would have been afraid and maybe would have done things on the safe side because I would ask myself, what else can I do with this, you know, religion degree and 30 years in in the pastoring business? Whereas I have a lot of different skills that I could go other places.
T.J.:How has your relationship with Christ changed or or maybe it's the same when you were an adult and serving and volunteering in the church in the ways that you mentioned? And now as an ordained clergy person who is serving the church in another capacity, a different capacity. Is that relationship any different?
Tammy:I don't think my my relationship with God, of course, has matured as I've matured. When I was in my twenties, I, you know, I felt like, okay. As long as I believe in God and go to church and and pray, and I can go out and party and do whatever I wanna do.
T.J.:It's it's hard to picture Jamie Greene. The one out to party.
Tammy:We used to have a we used to have a joke that it has since closed down with the local restaurant that had the bar attached to it, Augustinos here in Greenville. We'd see half of our congregation in there, and we said, we'll see you at church tomorrow. Oh, yeah. I'll be there. And and that didn't bother me any.
Tammy:And maybe it should have, but it didn't. But now that I'm a pastor, I still don't like telling people I'm a pastor when they ask me what I do because they treat you different. They immediately start apologizing. Oh, I didn't know. And I'm like, that's why I don't wanna tell you.
Tammy:Just treat me like anybody else. I found coming from the secular world to the church world, The worst chewing out I've ever gotten has been in a church environment, not in a secular environment. And I've worked at convenience stores, retail during Christmas. You name it. I've done it.
Tammy:Worst chewing I ever got was from church people. So that sort of it has taught me that I understand why people don't wanna come to church, and I hate it. And I hate that there's people that don't wanna come to church because I'm the pastor here. And I just say go somewhere. Even if you don't like me, go somewhere.
Tammy:Because I think we need to be in a community of faith. And I think COVID has taught us even more that the community of faith looks differently and can look differently because it's about sharing your heart, whether that's across the screen or in a in a queue or in a bar. So
T.J.:What would you change about the church, the community of faith if you had that magic wand, Tammy?
Tammy:I had that magic wand. Well, I'm one of those strange birds since I did just come back from sabbatical. I've I've visited 6 different churches, on the 6 Sundays I was out. All All churches pretty much that either were non denominational or definitely not Presbyterian. I mean, not mainline denominations.
Tammy:And they had praise bands and didn't have bulletins like we do here at Shiloh and didn't have, you know, responsive readings and all litanies and all that. And I enjoyed that worship. I went to the Billy Graham training center for minister conference and saw just an unbelievable example of love and hospitality there. How would I change it? I get I get great pleasure from singing old hymns, but I listen to Christian contemporary every day.
Tammy:So I get great pleasure from that. How I would change the church would be I would want a church where my nephew and his wife and his 22 baby girls would all feel comfortable, and it would meet their needs. And right now, there's not a church that meets their needs. My my nephew's wife grew up in a Baptist environment, loves praise music, loves that kind of open worship. They want teaching for their young daughters.
Tammy:But they also want their daughters to be in worship up to the children's sermon and then be dismissed to their own teaching. My nephew grew up in traditional Cumberland Presbyterian Church. You have a bulletin. You sing the hymns out of handbook. You recite.
Tammy:You have all the liturgies that you do during the Christian year, and and he likes that. There is no church that they've been in in Johnson City, Kingsport, Greenville that they both can agree on. I want the church to be that blend of old and new. Yeah. And I don't know how do we get there.
Tammy:I don't know how we get there.
T.J.:And it and it's being done in different places. It's just finding finding the you know, I've I've always said, there's a Cumberland Presbyterian Church for for you and for us. It just may not be in the town or the county or the state that you live in. But that world's getting smaller as you alluded to with, the technology being able to connect people that way.
Tammy:Yeah. I've got, I've got 3 people. We do Zoom worship every Sunday and have been, and we post our our sermons on YouTube. And I have 3 three people who live in other states that pretty the Zoom pretty much every Sunday with us. So and I know Alfonso and I had this conversation early in the pandemic because he was doing a Zoom with, a church in Mexico, and he had somebody that wanted to be baptized.
Tammy:He goes, how am I gonna handle that? I said, they're part of your church. Whether they're on Zoom or not, they're worshiping with your church. So I said, I don't see the proper one. You can you can have somebody administer it while you are in another place just like, you know, they married people on ships, you know, standing in for other people.
Tammy:So, but, yeah, that's something the church is gonna have to look at is our churches are not gonna be contained by walls anymore.
T.J.:And probably never were. Yeah. Probably never were. Yeah. Tammy Definitely
Tammy:not now.
T.J.:Tammy, where do you see God working in your life, and where do you see God working in the world today? Twofold question.
Tammy:In my life, since I just turned 61 and looking at retirement soon, in the next 4 years, I'm sort of like I've always been taught to leave a place better than when you found it. And right now, if if I left Shiloh, I don't think I would be leaving in in a place better than I found it. So he he is working in my life that we're both trying to discuss the fact that I don't have the energy I used to have. The sabbatical saved my life and and my ministry because I was I was not ready to have a breakdown. Because a year and a half is really very little help, and you're learning how to do all these new things.
Tammy:And, you know, you're the one that has to do it because people are not there. So you've got to make sure that the trash got out. You've got to make sure that that the Zoom gets uploaded. You've got to learn how to do Zoom. You've got to deal with the fact that people said I can't hear on Zoom.
Tammy:And you've tried everything in the world and you there's nobody to turn to to help you.
T.J.:Mhmm.
Tammy:Because we're all learning it together. And this 1st Sunday of May when I was doing graduate Sunday and trying to get the video to run, and we were doing communion, and nothing nothing worked. I couldn't get Zoom to work. I didn't have my computer plugged in. Basic.
Tammy:Did not have my computer plugged in and didn't find out till one of the elders told me at the end of the service. I thought, okay. We need a break. Mhmm. So, just trying to figure out where my energies and passions and where God wants me these last, years of ministry and leaving Shiloh in a good place for whoever God has next for it.
Tammy:I just wouldn't wanna leave it in in a, you know, those churches that have been left in a hard place.
T.J.:So amidst these challenges where you see god working in in your life?
Tammy:I have learned and continue to learn how to let go of the things I don't have control over.
T.J.:That's a hard one.
Tammy:That is a hard one, and I still continue to learn that. But, but, yeah, I have to let go of the things that because I think I can fix anything. I can fix this. Again, make it better. Move on.
Tammy:Every 4 years. That's what you do. So so I I've got about 4 years left in the ministry, so it'll be interesting to see be interesting to see what God has for me.
T.J.:Well, as we look forward into the the the future, how can folks continue to follow you on your faith journey as as you have doors opening up for you in your ministry and in your life.
Tammy:Well, we we are on Facebook even though I know that's a thing of the past. The more we are on Facebook, and I have a wonderful person who's who keeps up to date with that.
T.J.:And so that's Shiloh Cumberland Presbyterian Church. Yes. Greenville? Tennessee. Tennessee.
T.J.:Okay. Okay.
Tammy:And our, sermons are on YouTube. And our newsletters and bulletins are on our website, and they're updated every week. And that has our Zoom information. So whoever wants to come in and join us, we keep we have you can get it if you want it. The bulletin's out there with the Zoom link, and we don't we don't put anybody in the waiting room.
Tammy:You just come on in. So we will mute you if you get too loud. But other than that, anybody can join us. And the newsletters are out there. I'm not a big social media person.
Tammy:So as far as that goes, I I'm impressed that you do podcasts. I think that's wonderful. I wish there were more hours in the day that I could read and listen and do all the things I'd like to do. But, unfortunately, god interrupts some some days and says, no. You you need to get this person a turkey.
T.J.:Well and that is ministry.
Tammy:There is ministry.
T.J.:Tammy, thank you for sharing with me today.
Tammy:Thank you. I've enjoyed it.
T.J.:And thank you for listening to today's podcast. Grab a friend and travel with me on the next journey down Cumberland Road.
